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Old 2008-05-21, 09:02   Link #1
Skyfall
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[Manga] Chapter 401 Discussion

Welcome to the weekly manga chapter discussion thread. This thread is created early to discuss spoilers and speculation about the upcoming chapter.

As per the forums rules, please don't ask for or mention about where to download the (licensed) manga. Also remember not to post or link to any translations of the manga, since this is illegal as well. Posting a synopses or summary is fine (and welcome) but please do not discuss scans, raws, translation groups, etc.

Remember that the manga is licensed, do not post significant part of the chapters. This stands for pictures and direct translations. Summaries are ok, crops of pictures are ok as well if you want to illustrate your point but this is it.
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Old 2008-05-21, 09:25   Link #2
ChojinLocke
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Ok here is one spoiler which might be ok but still early.

Spoiler for 401 spoiler:
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Old 2008-05-21, 09:34   Link #3
Rahan
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Apparently it doesn't match with the pics that were just released.
The confirmed spoiler are not translated yet (just Itachi apparently had a lover ?) and the few pics out are mostly Sasuke doing funny faces and few random flashbacks of the fights, except the last one which takes place outside and features a healed Sasuke making his usual dull face and wearing the outfit of chapter 398's cover, so there should be a short timeskip and we won't know for sure what Sasuke is up to (coming back to Konoha as a friend or a spy ? official member of Akatsuki or not ?)

Besides, with your spoiler, it looks like Sasuke was the one weakened, not Itachi ...
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Old 2008-05-21, 09:40   Link #4
ChojinLocke
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Yes I wanted to post the confirmed one but as you said it is not translated yet and since I cannot translate the language I posted the last one before the confirmed one hoping there is an element of truth in it.
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Old 2008-05-21, 10:11   Link #5
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Is it me or is Sasuke beginning to look more and more like a puppet ala whatever his name was
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Old 2008-05-21, 10:14   Link #6
Kage_Spyke
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Sasuke is actually sasori's Living Puppet. lol im kidding
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Old 2008-05-21, 10:28   Link #7
Rahan
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So
The only revelations here are that Itachi had a lover (he was only 13, so I doubt he left a child somewhere), no one gives a shit about Naruto (the only time a villain came after him, he was faking for Sasuke's sake)and Itachi was dying from a non-explained illness ? (or maybe it's an illness that comes with the blindness, Madara was bedridden when he took his brother's eyes) and Sasuke apparently bought Madara's story.
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Old 2008-05-21, 11:08   Link #8
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itachi was jiraiya's spy
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Old 2008-05-21, 11:29   Link #9
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Well at least Itachi got some lovin' before he died. Here is hoping his lover comes to kill Sasuke now. In fact that would be a great way for Kishimoto to show the futility of vengeance, by having Itachi's loved one come to kill Sasuke now that Itachi has died for Sasuke (if this lover spoiler is true, which it look like it isn't).

Last edited by james0246; 2008-05-21 at 11:58.
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Old 2008-05-21, 11:49   Link #10
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Basically this is the conclusion of Madara's story about Itachi.
Sasuke is refusing to believe him and say his brother almost killed him many time, Madara answers that Itachi did almost kill him but that he would have done it had he really wanted to. Itachi simply always let Sasuke just enough room to survive and forced him to go all out in order to release him of the presence of Oro.
And apparently he did it whereas he was already dying from some desease (Itachi did really pull a Kimi on us).

He went to Akatsuki to monitor them, he returned to Konoha under false pretenses to capture Naruto to actually remind Konoha's elders he was still out there so they wouldn't touch Sasuke.
It's more implied than directly said but the reason why Itachi told Sasuke about killing his best friend and beat him up again was actually to obtain the opposite reaction : so he would remain Sasuke's most important person. By keeping Sasuke fully obsessed with him he intended to have Sasuke gain the MS when he would kill the person most important to him, Itachi himself.
With him dead, the clan would have been avenged as far as Sasuke knew.
In other words Itachi hads pretty much everybody, and particularly Sasuke, dancing to his tune until the very end. Until Madara came and probably ruined everything by telling all this to Sasuke that is.

Once his story is over Madara cut Sasuke free and leave him somewhere before leaving himself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by james3wk View Post
Well at least Itachi got some lovin' before he died. Here is hoping his lover comes to kill Sasuke now. In fact that would be a great way for Kishimoto to show the futility of vengeance, by having Itachi's loved one come to kill Sasuke now that Itachi has died for Sasuke,
That's going to be difficult after being killed by Itachi years ago don't you think?
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Old 2008-05-21, 12:19   Link #11
Ero-Senn1n
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I like this chapter if the spoiler is true, except for the stupid "mysterious disease". That's just too simple, why not poisoning himself or anything other than this stupid disease idea. It was good for a unimportant character like Kimimaro, but for someone so important as Itachi i think this was not a good idea.

Just a possible logical explanation for the "mysterious disease":
Itachi did know that the cursed seal leads to the mysterious disease that Kimimaro had. Itachi at age of 10 to 11 met with Orochimaru who was already in akatsuki, and lets just be honest, an Itachi without the MS could probably be not good enough to counter Orochi's cursed seal giving attempt (the same he did with Sasuke in the forest of death), so in that case Itachi had the CS too, and because of that he developed that disease just like Kimimaro. Half a year after that could be that Orochimaru wanted to take Itachi's eyes but Itachi by that time was so good (at age of 11 to 12) with sharingan that he defeated Orochi. However even if Itachi years later found out how to get rid of the cursed seal it was too late because the disease already could not be stopped despite getting rid of the seal. But it didn't matter since what he wanted to was to get rid of Sasuke's cursed seal.


Why will Sasuke be depressed from now on (if he believes Madara's words). One thing is that he killed his brother. However something that may be even more painful for Mr. Ego: Itachi was still on a totally different level than him, Itachi was so much stronger/better that Sasuke couldn't even notice that Itachi faked the fight. In the end Sasuke could never reach that level on which Itachi was. Well, that's if Sasuke is considered Mr.Ego, i guess many of the Sasuke-haters like this explanation
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Old 2008-05-21, 12:28   Link #12
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i really wonder what sasuke will do now, he looks to be at peace on the last page. time for him to find naruto and join his quest to destroy madara and pain.
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Old 2008-05-21, 12:30   Link #13
BlackShinobi07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
Basically this is the conclusion of Madara's story about Itachi.
Sasuke is refusing to believe him and say his brother almost killed him many time, Madara answers that Itachi did almost kill him but that he would have done it had he really wanted to. Itachi simply always let Sasuke just enough room to survive and forced him to go all out in order to release him of the presence of Oro.
And apparently he did it whereas he was already dying from some desease (Itachi did really pull a Kimi on us).

He went to Akatsuki to monitor them, he returned to Konoha under false pretenses to capture Naruto to actually remind Konoha's elders he was still out there so they wouldn't touch Sasuke.
It's more implied than directly said but the reason why Itachi told Sasuke about killing his best friend and beat him up again was actually to obtain the opposite reaction : so he would remain Sasuke's most important person. By keeping Sasuke fully obsessed with him he intended to have Sasuke gain the MS when he would kill the person most important to him, Itachi himself.
With him dead, the clan would have been avenged as far as Sasuke knew.
In other words Itachi hads pretty much everybody, and particularly Sasuke, dancing to his tune until the very end. Until Madara came and probably ruined everything by telling all this to Sasuke that is.

Once his story is over Madara cut Sasuke free and leave him somewhere before leaving himself.


That's going to be difficult after being killed by Itachi years ago don't you think?
I can't believe this, but I'm actually feeling a little sorry for Itachi. I guess thats what you call good writing, huh?

I'm a bit confused on a few things, however.
~ Itachi torchered Sasuke so many times in order to remove the curse seal?

~ Itachi was dying from some disease all along?

~ What do you mean Itachi was pulling a Kimi?

~ Itach wasn't recruited into Akatsuki by Madara?

Spoiler pics anyone?
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Old 2008-05-21, 12:32   Link #14
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I dont think there are any pics atm, sounds like an interesting twist if Hunters post proves correct.
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Old 2008-05-21, 12:34   Link #15
Ero-Senn1n
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i really wonder what sasuke will do now, he looks to be at peace on the last page. time for him to find naruto and join his quest to destroy madara and pain.
Why do you think Madara has told him all this? What Sasuke can see that Itachi's way was to sacrifice everything for the village, and the village was totally ungrateful. If Sasuke wants a better world he would probably want a world without ninja villages, but not the old world of chaos, something new. And that's where we have Pain's dream about a better world, so Sasuke might joint Pain in his quest, which means Sasuke ends up fighting Konoha and Naruto. Some foreshadowing was already done: Tsunade talks about possible 6th hokages and Jiraiya talks about Danozou being a threat. Which means that bad things will happen to Konoha and Sasuke might be one of those bad things.
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Old 2008-05-21, 13:03   Link #16
ChojinLocke
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If Sasuke felt bad for killing his brother then he wouldnt feel that he needs to go against the whole village but rather question and interrogate to death if necessary danzou and his lackies. He cannot take everything Madara said as the absolute truth before validation and knowing Sasuke it sounds like something he would do before deciding to join Madara (or he might join under false pretenses which is also something not entirely fresh and new to the series yes? ).

Basically Itachi tried to protect the village according to Madara. If Sasuke goes against the whole village then Itachi died in vain and all those Uchiha lives were lost for nothing since Sasuke combined with Madara and Akatsuki can bring a lot of devastation to Konoha. But logically speaking all of this should wait for now - the logical step for Sasuke is to hunt down Danzou and his lackies and extract every piece of information he can and then possibly terminate him.

Obviously along the way Konoha would acquire the information too since it would be too one sided if only Madara and Sasuke know what is going on (assuming Danzou vanishes from the face of the map). But perhaps Danzou is secretly working with Madara because Madara knowing all this information...a spy or a collaborator/mercenary - otherwise makes no sense.
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Old 2008-05-21, 13:22   Link #17
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Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
By keeping Sasuke fully obsessed with him he intended to have Sasuke gain the MS when he would kill the person most important to him, Itachi himself.
That's what I was thinking, but my version would have a hole in it if you're correct, since apparently Itachi didn't want Sasuke to know about what he did. What I was thinking was: Itachi made Sasuke want to kill him, making him not the most important person but the most hated person to Sasuke. But after they fought and Itachi died, he also planned that Madara would tell Sasuke the truth, making him the most important person to Sasuke now - and then obtain the MS, since now he realized he killed the most important person to him.

This would be kind of weird though, since he would gain the MS by changing his feelings towards someone he "killed". Actually, I just thought about it, Itachi wasn't killed by Sasuke - would the feeling that he killed him be enough to activate the MS? If so, then a genjutsu would be a smarter way to get the MS.
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Old 2008-05-21, 13:25   Link #18
james0246
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Originally Posted by ChojinLocke View Post
If Sasuke felt bad for killing his brother then he wouldnt feel that he needs to go against the whole village but rather question and interrogate to death if necessary danzou and his lackies. He cannot take everything Madara said as the absolute truth before validation and knowing Sasuke it sounds like something he would do before deciding to join Madara (or he might join under false pretenses which is also something not entirely fresh and new to the series yes? ).
What do you mean (I am actually a little confused), are you saying that Sasuke will take Madara's speech at face value, or Sasuke is smart enough to seek verification first? Sasuke has a long line of following, more or less, whatever someone tells him. He believed extensively/intensely in Itachi's words, to the point that he abandonned his village to attain power to continue believing in Itachi's words. Additionally, he went to Orochimaru for the promise of power, when, for all he knew, Orochimaru could have knocked him out and kept him in a test tube until Orochimaru needed to transfer bodies (in fact that would have been the logical thing for Orochimaru to do, but sadly, Orochimaru has never been that logical in his thinking). Sasuke is very smart and has a deft mind while in battle, but he has a hard time seperating truth from fiction while outside of battle (which is somewhat justifiable considering the fact that he has been, more or less, lied to by nearly everyone for the majority of his life).

I hope that Sasuke does go on a Quest for Verification (tm for next Sasuke arc ), otherwise he will be acting like a puppet (yet again), which would be a great disservice to his character.

Last edited by james0246; 2008-05-21 at 13:37.
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Old 2008-05-21, 14:07   Link #19
Vindi89
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Until Madara came and probably ruined everything by telling all this to Sasuke that is.
I would also think Naruto had a hand in ruining Itachi's plans don't you think so? He became Sasuke's best friend, which Itachi didn't plan for.
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Old 2008-05-21, 14:19   Link #20
Suna no tate
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the spoiler is really interesting but it again obscures how the MS is developed/given. First madara says itachi gave it to him and then he later says itachi drew it out of him. Throw in kakashi's situation and it's just a mess. Clarification is definitely needed.
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