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Old 2008-05-22, 03:49   Link #1
LiberLibri
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Angry Islam banned Jojo

According to Jiji Tsushin, Shueisha suspended today the sale of "Jojo no Kimyou na Bouken", both in Anime DVD and Manga. It's because of the intensive criticism from the Islamic world; they complain about its scene where an antagonist orders his companies to kill the protagonists, reading Koran. It gives the viewers, according to the muslim claimers, the impression that Koran is harmful and evil. Some wingnuts even imply to bomb the publishers.

The problems are:

- The criticisers knew the movie through a fansub. The anime was developed for domestic audience, therefore got no self-censorship concerning cultural or religious matters. If it had been for exportation, the publisher naturally would have cared for such things. Fansubs have created a critically risky situation for creators. Even when they tend to entertain only domestic customers, pirates immediately jump across the border.

- To what extent should we regulate "blasphemy" in fictious entertainments? If the anime had depicted, for example, a deadly battle between Muhammad and FSM, we would easily had noticed the "danger" in it. However, the Koran alleged was just a flavour gadget in fact. And, if we are obliged to describe certain kind of religion only in good ways, it would surely destroy the possibility of free expression.
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Old 2008-05-22, 03:52   Link #2
Ridwan
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Well, this is the age you're living in.... -_-
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Old 2008-05-22, 03:57   Link #3
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Originally Posted by LiberLibri View Post
- The criticisers knew the movie through a fansub. The anime was developed for domestic audience, therefore got no self-censorship concerning cultural or religious matters. If it had been for exportation, the publisher naturally would have cared for such things. Fansubs have created a critically risky situation for creators. Even when they tend to entertain only domestic customers, pirates immediately jump across the border.
So fansubs are to blame for this mess? Try blaming the creators/publishers instead: They created the work and they decided to stop distribution.
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Old 2008-05-22, 05:06   Link #4
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Blasphemy in entertainment media is just one fictional character dissing another fictional character.
We should not care. Especially with such a ridiculous wide definition of blasphemy getting applied.
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Old 2008-05-22, 05:49   Link #5
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It's been around for 20 years and now, they complain? Nice one.
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Old 2008-05-22, 05:57   Link #6
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Some wingnuts even imply to bomb the publishers.
When people say things like that I have difficulty feeling sympathy for anything they say. However in this case I'll give the benefit of the doubt that its just something to rile people up about the whole thing. As any serious and sensible person wouldn't be making stupid threats as such.

Never seen this show, but really, so many different Anime have scenes which show other groups or people in unflattering ways, I've never seen big issues about it before. Heck Christianity is often shown as dealing with 'demons' or some how militaristic. All in the name of entertainment. I wonder though if this is because Islam has had bad press in the last few years or if its people genuinely offended. (tyoing in a rush, WoW Raid times...)
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Old 2008-05-22, 08:24   Link #7
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Originally Posted by Mr Hat and Clogs View Post
I wonder though if this is because Islam has had bad press in the last few years or if its people genuinely offended.
One interesting argument made is that the governments of many Islamic countries, which are mostly developing nations, find it convenient to the direct the pressure outwards; i.e. instead of taking responsibility and suffering the backlash for societal problems -- the extreme inequality in wealth (oil wealth wasn't exactly well-distributed), the lack of rights and freedoms, the poverty, the political and social instability, etc. -- they, if not always explicitly, tend to blame the West and Moral Corruption and other targets in a classic "External Enemy" political tactic.

After all, all those "terrorists" are more often than not frustrated young men who were denied opportunities of social mobility and economic welfare: the most dangerous demographic in the entire history of man by far. If they aren't blaming the Foreigners and protesting at every imagined outrage at Islam (Danish cartoons anyone?), they might just manage to take a look back at their own oppressive governments and express their pent-up energy in some revolutions to take down the existing social order that wasn't doing them any good.

It's an interesting argument, which places the blame ultimately with oppressive authoritarianism rather than the traditional argument that blames everything on "Islam," which merely provides religious justification. This, of course, does not excuse stupid people who can't seem to grasp that they shouldn't be fucking around with other people's business and protesting or sending bomb threats for the stupidest of reasons.

Shueisha shouldn't have listened.
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Old 2008-05-22, 08:42   Link #8
yezhanquan
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I do hope that the suspension is temporary. I don't read the series, but to let it "die" just like that is a bad decision.
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Old 2008-05-22, 09:53   Link #9
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Thats a really interesting view point Irenicus, and its disappointing as well in its own way. Makes a lot of sense though from what I vaguely remember about the region.

And yes they shouldn't have listened.



and g'nite.
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Old 2008-05-22, 10:10   Link #10
glyph
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Originally Posted by LiberLibri View Post
According to Jiji Tsushin, Shueisha suspended today the sale of "Jojo no Kimyou na Bouken", both in Anime DVD and Manga. It's because of the intensive criticism from the Islamic world; they complain about its scene where an antagonist orders his companies to kill the protagonists, reading Koran. It gives the viewers, according to the muslim claimers, the impression that Koran is harmful and evil. Some wingnuts even imply to bomb the publishers.
Does it even occur to these hotheads that their threats are playing up to and reinforcing the worst perceived stereotypes of their belief system more than any campy fictional villain?
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Old 2008-05-22, 10:55   Link #11
2H-Dragon
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Originally Posted by LiberLibri View Post
According to Jiji Tsushin, Shueisha suspended today the sale of "Jojo no Kimyou na Bouken", both in Anime DVD and Manga. It's because of the intensive criticism from the Islamic world; they complain about its scene where an antagonist orders his companies to kill the protagonists, reading Koran. It gives the viewers, according to the muslim claimers, the impression that Koran is harmful and evil. Some wingnuts even imply to bomb the publishers.
I really think they have a valid point there. Since it makes no sence to even include the koran in there. Does it give the series added meaning? Doubt it. Did it ever happen in the history that people order people to kill while reading the koran? All in all wonder why was it needed? If you are making flam bait expect to be flamed. >_>

While I don't know if they should have listened. Muslims do have the right to bitch about it, ofcourse bomb treaths is going to far. Sigh producers should learn to stay the fuck away from religon just make a new one up or something. <_<
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Old 2008-05-22, 11:13   Link #12
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Irenicus really nails the problem on the head -- the use of distraction via religion by the powerful.

No religion has "the right" to dictate what non-believers do or say or to threaten them. This "I say you hurt my feelings and I'm going to physically harm you" threat crap (and then caving into it) is ruinous. I'm sad that the publishing company was so weak about it.
All religions have a small gallery of zealots and wingnuts and they should not be catered to nor taken as "spokesmen" for an entire religion.

Quote:
Did it ever happen in the history that people order people to kill while reading the koran?
People throughout history have ordered killing and mayhem while clutching their holy books to justify it in all religions. It isn't "flame bait" to write a story that involves someone doing that. Did Indiana Jones insult Christianity or Judaism with its storylines and did someone threaten to kill the producers? No. Did the Da Vinci Code upset people? Yes, but did they threaten to kill the makers? No and in the end it is only a piece of entertainment.
As Irenicus says, religion is simply the pretext for control of their own people and thuggery against others.
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Old 2008-05-22, 11:31   Link #13
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Irenicus really nails the problem on the head -- the use of distraction via religion by the powerful.

No religion has "the right" to dictate what non-believers do or say or to threaten them. This "I say you hurt my feelings and I'm going to physically harm you" threat crap (and then caving into it) is ruinous. I'm sad that the publishing company was so weak about it.
All religions have a small gallery of zealots and wingnuts and they should not be catered to nor taken as "spokesmen" for an entire religion.

People throughout history have ordered killing and mayhem while clutching their holy books to justify it in all religions. It isn't "flame bait" to write a story that involves someone doing that. Did Indiana Jones insult Christianity or Judaism with its storylines and did someone threaten to kill the producers? No. Did the Da Vinci Code upset people? Yes, but did they threaten to kill the makers? No and in the end it is only a piece of entertainment.
As Irenicus says, religion is simply the pretext for control of their own people and thuggery against others.
Uhm I don't really think you get my point. I did state that making the treaths is going to far. What I'm trying to say that people should respect other people religions. The thing with the holy books. You might not care, but the believers care. Hence in Islam you have to wash yourself eacht time you even touch the Koran. While it might be weird to that for you it's standard protocol for us. That you think it's ok doesn't suddenly mean it's ok. People who really believe in their religon do get hurt by these actions, hence I think it is well in their right to complain about it.

Nah the ordering of killing in Islam isn't that big in Islam. Islam pretty much has a history of being taken over rather then doing the taking over.
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Old 2008-05-22, 11:35   Link #14
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Originally Posted by LiberLibri View Post
according to the muslim claimers, the impression that Koran is harmful and evil. Some wingnuts even imply to bomb the publishers.

....




...I rest my case




(everyone realises I mean this in sarcastic fun, no need to send deaththreats, anthrax or other objects of future bad health)

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Old 2008-05-22, 11:41   Link #15
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What I'm trying to say that people should respect other people religions. The thing with the holy books. You might not care, but the believers care.
They should have cared a thousand years ago when, just to put an example, millions died in the Crusades. And yes, because of what those in religious power said, wielding their holy books as some sort of justification.

I haven't watched the series, so I don't know exactly how it was used, but the Koran/Bible/whatever are merely tools used by religious leaders--if I was the one who made the series, I think I would've made it pretty clear that it's about domination and that the Koran was merely a tool.
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Old 2008-05-22, 11:55   Link #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
People throughout history have ordered killing and mayhem while clutching their holy books to justify it in all religions. It isn't "flame bait" to write a story that involves someone doing that. Did Indiana Jones insult Christianity or Judaism with its storylines and did someone threaten to kill the producers? No. Did the Da Vinci Code upset people? Yes, but did they threaten to kill the makers? No and in the end it is only a piece of entertainment.As Irenicus says, religion is simply the pretext for control of their own people and thuggery against others.
I completely agree with you, but I felt like adding one more example/caveat just to show that extreme Christinanity can be as "crazy" as extreme Islam. When Martin Scorsese's released his Last Temptation of Christ back in 87'-88' he received constant threats (deeath and bodily harm) from the ultra right religious fanatatics. And, when the film was actually in theaters, there were some reported bomb threats in towns across America from religious fanatics who were threatening the theatre owners with retaliation if they showed the film. (Many films throughtout the mediums short history have drawn the ire and violence of various religious organizations.)
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Old 2008-05-22, 12:02   Link #17
2H-Dragon
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Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
They should have cared a thousand years ago when, just to put an example, millions died in the Crusades. And yes, because of what those in religious power said, wielding their holy books as some sort of justification.

I haven't watched the series, so I don't know exactly how it was used, but the Koran/Bible/whatever are merely tools used by religious leaders--if I was the one who made the series, I think I would've made it pretty clear that it's about domination and that the Koran was merely a tool.
Ermm it's pretty harsh to judge something on a minority. I doubt even at that time the majority where insane killers. Hell look at the situation now people are killing without any justification. It isn't the books that make them kill. So yeah and it's hard to care about something when I wasn't born you know. Though what is a fact is that it does hurt. The same way let's say your dead mom was portrayed as a killer in a movie. Might be fiction, but doesn't take away that it does hurt. Don't get me wrong I'm not asking for censoring, I'm just asking people for respect.

btw;I haven't seen or read Jojo either so wouldn't know for sure. Tried reading the manga, but it sucked so stopped. xD

Let's make it clear

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiberLibri View Post
According to Jiji Tsushin, Shueisha suspended today the sale of "Jojo no Kimyou na Bouken", both in Anime DVD and Manga. It's because of the intensive criticism from the Islamic world; they complain about its scene where an antagonist orders his companies to kill the protagonists, reading Koran. It gives the viewers, according to the muslim claimers, the impression that Koran is harmful and evil. Some wingnuts even imply to bomb the publishers.
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Old 2008-05-22, 12:10   Link #18
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原作とDVDの一部を出荷停止にしたと発表した
The article says the sale of part of the DVD and manga have been suspended. It does not say the axing of the 136-volume long series.

Although it's interesting how Christians are relatively quiet over the use of the cross and their churches in anime (Hellsing, Fate/Stay Night being good examples), while the Islamic world is more vocal about these things.

Cultural Geographies of Globalisation was quite a handful when I studied it.
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Old 2008-05-22, 12:11   Link #19
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Ermm it's pretty harsh to judge something on a minority. I doubt even at that time the majority where insane killers. Hell look at the situation now people are killing without any justification. It isn't the books that make them kill. So yeah and it's hard to care about something when I wasn't born you know. Though what is a fact is that it does hurt. The same way let's say your dead mom was portrayed as a killer in a movie. Might be fiction, but doesn't take away that it does hurt. Don't get me wrong I'm not asking for censoring, I'm just asking people for respect.
Look, the fact remains that the holy books were traditionally used to herd people and make them do what their leaders wanted. So if I make a documentary about the Crusades and how religious leaders riled up the ignorant masses, am I insulting Christianity?

If my mom and dad would've been killers, why should I have had any reason to get upset?

There are undeniable facts that arise from a study of history. And the sacredness of holy books isn't precisely one of them.
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Old 2008-05-22, 12:20   Link #20
2H-Dragon
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Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
Look, the fact remains that the holy books were traditionally used to herd people and make them do what their leaders wanted. So if I make a documentary about the Crusades and how religious leaders riled up the ignorant masses, am I insulting Christianity?

If my mom and dad would've been killers, why should I have had any reason to get upset?

There are undeniable facts that arise from a study of history. And the sacredness of holy books isn't precisely one of them.
That's the point this isn't a documentary. Hence it's pointless. If it's fiction anyhow why jump that boat?

Even if your parents where killers I'd think you'd be upset. I doubt you will think oh they where killers so it's there just desert. This isn't about logic. It's on emtional and moral level.

Who are you to judge that the holy books aren't sacred. That you think it isn't sacred doesn't mean the rest thinks the same way.

Wow all this bullshit just, because I'm asking for respect.

Let me ask you do you just call names at someone for the sake of entertainment? If you do I have nothing to say.
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