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Old 2012-03-20, 20:13   Link #6741
Shadow5YA
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Originally Posted by Ryuutai View Post
No, she didn't do what I told. I didn't tell that she should reject Keima, what I'm saying is that she should talk to Chihiro, tell her that she was in Keima's room when she heard her confession, tell her that she had tried to root for her but she couldn't because she is in love with him as well, tell her that she saw Keima dumping her because she was spying on their date, tell her that she had kissed Keima time ago...Tell her everything.

She should simply apologize to Chihiro for not being honest, even if her intention was to make her happy.

You are missing an important plot point here.

I'm not bashing Ayumi because I like trolling: in fact, also Ayumi knows that her behaviour has been wrong so far, or did you miss that? I'm sure enough that even if Keima kissed her, she couldn't get the wings, because of her sense of guilt.
It's the same reason why Diana can't get her wings: her sense of guilt towards Tenri is the obstacle.



Chihiro didn't tell her to go for it, in the scene in the bathroom at the festival.
But I'm sure she would have told that, if Ayumi, in that moment, had admitted her feelings for Keima.

You are not getting my point at all.
You think that I'm saying that Ayumi should reject Keima for Chihiro.
No, I'm saying only that, at least now, it's the moment for her to be honest. But also at Miyako's home, she lied.
You are not getting my point either.

My point is that you claim Ayumi wasn't considerate of Chihiro's feelings. She was. Chihiro told her not to let that bother her.

You say that Ayumi is at fault for keeping secrets from Chihiro. My point is that you are holding a double standard. Let's not forget that Chihiro didn't tell Ayumi that she was eavesdropping either.
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Old 2012-03-21, 08:07   Link #6742
Ryuutai
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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
You are not getting my point either.

My point is that you claim Ayumi wasn't considerate of Chihiro's feelings. She was. Chihiro told her not to let that bother her.
She was considerate for her feelings, but in the wrong way.
Also, Ayumi knows that Chihiro is still suffering, or do you think she is so naive to believe she is really ok? I think she knows that Chihiro is just pretending...she knew that this time, Chihiro's feelings were genuine. Ayumi herself thinks that she mistook, in fact, she was telling Chihiro that she wanted to leave the band exactly for that reason, because she wasn't rooting for her sincerely...finally, she was ready to tell the truth, and that one was the best choice, which would have made her feel very better...but at that point, Keima arrived and ruined everything with his idiotic galge logic. =__=
Later, after Ayumi met Keima, she seems have changed her mind again. In fact, at Miyako's home, she lied to Chihiro about her feelings again.
Quote:
You say that Ayumi is at fault for keeping secrets from Chihiro. My point is that you are holding a double standard. Let's not forget that Chihiro didn't tell Ayumi that she was eavesdropping either.
Eavesdropping what? The conversation between Haqua, Diana and Keima? The date between Ayumi and Keima?
We don't know what Chihiro will do yet. She could do something really wrong, I don't know it, but I can understand that she is still shocked and confused by everything just happened to her in few hours, exactly as I can understand the reasons why Ayumi hasn't the courage to be honest, even if lying isn't the best what to do, imho. So, calling Chihiro b*tch and sl*t all the time as some people are doing is only immature, they don't want to see and understand her circumstances just because they always hated her character. They can see Ayumi's pain, but they can't see Chihiro's pain.
I'm not holding a double standard, I can see the mistakes of all the characters. They musn't be perfect bidimensional dolls, and the more they mistake, the more they are human. I love Chihiro very much because she is imperfect and very realistic.
Some people don't want see Ayumi's mistakes, probably because they like to think that she is perfect (when the fact that she is showing some weakness makes her more interesting, in my opinion), or just because they actually think that lying is a good thing in situations like this. While the first reason is the typical one of your average fanboy, the second one reflects just a different personal point of view about life and friendship, that I can't share.
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Old 2012-03-21, 09:37   Link #6743
Shadow5YA
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Originally Posted by Ryuutai View Post
She was considerate for her feelings, but in the wrong way.
Also, Ayumi knows that Chihiro is still suffering, or do you think she is so naive to believe she is really ok? I think she knows that Chihiro is just pretending...she knew that this time, Chihiro's feelings were genuine. Ayumi herself thinks that she mistook, in fact, she was telling Chihiro that she wanted to leave the band exactly for that reason, because she wasn't rooting for her sincerely...finally, she was ready to tell the truth, and that one was the best choice, which would have made her feel very better...but at that point, Keima arrived and ruined everything with his idiotic galge logic. =__=
Later, after Ayumi met Keima, she seems have changed her mind again. In fact, at Miyako's home, she lied to Chihiro about her feelings again.
So you do acknowledge that Ayumi was aware of Chihiro's feelings? Good.

And I see that your double standards still haven't changed. I find it funny how you pardon Chihiro's "Aah, you don't have to worry about it. I told you, right? It's got nothing to do with me anymore!"

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Originally Posted by Ryuutai View Post
Eavesdropping what? The conversation between Haqua, Diana and Keima? The date between Ayumi and Keima?
We don't know what Chihiro will do yet. She could do something really wrong, I don't know it, but I can understand that she is still shocked and confused by everything just happened to her in few hours, exactly as I can understand the reasons why Ayumi hasn't the courage to be honest, even if lying isn't the best what to do, imho. So, calling Chihiro b*tch and sl*t all the time as some people are doing is only immature, they don't want to see and understand her circumstances just because they always hated her character. They can see Ayumi's pain, but they can't see Chihiro's pain.
I'm not holding a double standard, I can see the mistakes of all the characters. They musn't be perfect bidimensional dolls, and the more they mistake, the more they are human. I love Chihiro very much because she is imperfect and very realistic.
Some people don't want see Ayumi's mistakes, probably because they like to think that she is perfect (when the fact that she is showing some weakness makes her more interesting, in my opinion), or just because they actually think that lying is a good thing in situations like this. While the first reason is the typical one of your average fanboy, the second one reflects just a different personal point of view about life and friendship, that I can't share.
I thought you were refuting what I or someone else here said, but I guess not. It's my mistake for assuming you were talking to me, because I certainly never said that Ayumi was perfect. If you are referring to me, then all you're doing is setting up a straw man's argument.

They are both imperfect with their own character motivations. I find it odd that you pardon Chihiro for being imperfect, yet you chastise Ayumi for the same imperfections as if she has to be perfect. Why is only Ayumi under scrutiny for hiding things when Chihiro is guilty of the same thing?
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Old 2012-03-21, 09:52   Link #6744
Proto
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Wait? What? People are still discussing about this?
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Old 2012-03-21, 13:18   Link #6745
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Wait? What? People are still discussing about this?
Yeap.


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Originally Posted by BladeEntity View Post
Things can't be that simple in manga's and personally I find it hard to believe that being perfectly honest is that simple even in real life. Somethings are better kept secret. TBF Ayumi has been trying her best, having Keima ask for her help in dating Chihiro while she likes him is a terrible blow to her she has had it rough. (She was not spying it was a coincidence) Chihiro up to this point has been rarely put in between who she likes and her best friend and in that situation I can see why what she does seems irrational. People are easily blinded in situations where love is involved.
Exactly, what i meant.
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Old 2012-03-21, 15:10   Link #6746
Ryuutai
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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
And I see that your double standards still haven't changed.
You are the one with double standards, not me.

Here there are tons of people who expressed their hate for Chihiro, without considering her emotional condition, and you told nothing in her favor. But you were immediately ready to bash me, the only person who expressed some negative opinions about Ayumi's actions.
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Old 2012-03-21, 15:25   Link #6747
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Chihiro has IMO is in the same boat as Ayumi hence their actions have become rather irrational and my have irked some people. However from Chihiro stand point I feel that why people are so affected by the recent chapter was how Wakaki Sensei drew her face when she called Keima a lying bastard it did at the feel of more malice, it is clear that she wanted to protect Ayumi from Keima who Chihiro thinks has bad intentions from what she has seen (probably because she does not understand the whole situation). From what I saw, Chihiro went out of her way to create the opportunity to warn Ayumi. To make matters worse it is hypocritical for Chihiro to lie to Keima then then call him a lying bastard. From here all I can say is since we do not know her motivations it is hard to judge if it was to protect Ayumi it is understandable. However if it is just to screw up Keima perhaps her emotional state is questionable

On the other as I have already stated to say the way Ayumi is being considerate is wrong unfair as there is no right or wrong in trying to be considerate, it's the thought that counts, and Ayumi has tried to be the faithful best friend and when that failed she tried to tell her the truth. There is no right or wrong perhaps there are better ways but showing an effort is all that matters. And on that count Ayumi has done enough IMHO, she is clearly not perfect but she tries her best. That's all that you can ask I real life even.
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Old 2012-03-21, 16:15   Link #6748
Ryuutai
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Originally Posted by BladeEntity View Post
Chihiro has IMO is in the same boat as Ayumi hence their actions have become rather irrational and my have irked some people. However from Chihiro stand point I feel that why people are so affected by the recent chapter was how Wakaki Sensei drew her face when she called Keima a lying bastard it did at the feel of more malice, it is clear that she wanted to protect Ayumi from Keima who Chihiro thinks has bad intentions from what she has seen (probably because she does not understand the whole situation). From what I saw, Chihiro went out of her way to create the opportunity to warn Ayumi. To make matters worse it is hypocritical for Chihiro to lie to Keima then then call him a lying bastard. From here all I can say is since we do not know her motivations it is hard to judge if it was to protect Ayumi it is understandable. However if it is just to screw up Keima perhaps her emotional state is questionable
Probably Chihiro is still very emotionally unstable, and she didn't trust Keima and Haqua. Keima is a liar to her, and he actually is a liar, even if for good reasons...We are the omniscient readers and know that he is really working to save the world, but Chihiro could think he is fighting with someone just for his personal interests.

Quote:
On the other as I have already stated to say the way Ayumi is being considerate is wrong unfair as there is no right or wrong in trying to be considerate, it's the thought that counts, and Ayumi has tried to be the faithful best friend and when that failed she tried to tell her the truth. There is no right or wrong perhaps there are better ways but showing an effort is all that matters. And on that count Ayumi has done enough IMHO, she is clearly not perfect but she tries her best. That's all that you can ask I real life even.
I can understand that being honest isn't very simple, but I'm sure I would never acted like Ayumi did. Anyway, she is just a teenager, she can mistake, and I won't say that she is a monster or something like this...Sorry, but I'm only very tired to see around the web people insulting Chihiro without considering her circumstances, while everyone can understand Ayumi's situation.

Blaming Chihiro for her gesture, regardless of the reason why she did that, calling her bi*ch, is really unfair, because it means forgetting that her heart is broken...When you are in deep pain, your mind doesn't work as when you are fine. Keima could apologize to her at least, it's not that difficult to say a simple "sorry". He destroyed her heart, and we know he was sorry for that, but Chihiro didn't see his depressed face while he was in the bath, she just knows he played with her feelings...But our hero is still very immature.
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Old 2012-03-21, 16:21   Link #6749
Flower
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Wait? What? People are still discussing about this?
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Originally Posted by Solafighter View Post
Yeap....
After all ... teh internetz is serious bizness and all that, eh?

Seriously though ... something tells me that the next few chapters should bring some kind of resolution to the current "tenseness" - both between Chihiro, Keima and Ayumi and in the manga in general. I am actually looking forward to the mangaka resolving the situation he has "whipped up" here.
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Old 2012-03-22, 10:21   Link #6750
moridin84
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Seriously though ... something tells me that the next few chapters should bring some kind of resolution to the current "tenseness" - both between Chihiro, Keima and Ayumi and in the manga in general. I am actually looking forward to the mangaka resolving the situation he has "whipped up" here.
Me too.

That 'something' is know as 'hope' though.
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Old 2012-03-23, 07:51   Link #6751
konart
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Spoiler for 182 True Love:
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Old 2012-03-23, 07:53   Link #6752
BladeEntity
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Well that was to be expected I guess... More interesting is how is he going to solve the problem... No doubts true love will fix the problem here.
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Old 2012-03-23, 07:54   Link #6753
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Spoiler for 182 True Love:
Spoiler:
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Old 2012-03-23, 07:56   Link #6754
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No worries, Ayumi has special first girl magic, so Keima should be able to fix this...
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Old 2012-03-23, 07:59   Link #6755
konart
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Yeah, he was awesome prince on a white horse.

Spoiler for Charming:


The last panel is hilarious btw, not spoiling(spoilering? D: ) though.
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Old 2012-03-23, 08:08   Link #6756
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Spoiler for 182:
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Old 2012-03-23, 09:41   Link #6757
SaintessHeart
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Yeah, he was awesome prince on a white horse.

<snip>
For some reason, I think that Yui/Mars would look a whole lot better on the horse than Keima himself.

And look :



Dear Wakaki, I hope you are NOT going to use this film as a reference to this manga!
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Old 2012-03-23, 14:02   Link #6758
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Haha, that's right, Keima doesn't deal with the Real.

And as expected, although Chihiro was harsh, it wasn't with malicious intent (although some of the grudge was real).
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Old 2012-03-23, 14:05   Link #6759
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Spoiler for 182 True Love:
So much tsun it hurts
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Old 2012-03-23, 14:24   Link #6760
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I knew it. Chihiro isn't stupid. I knew she was indirectly and subtly helping Keima.
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