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Old 2008-07-11, 08:02   Link #1
cyth
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General Saimoe

I generally think kids should have some fun around these forums, but if you do some simple posting math, you'd notice that the Anime Saimoe Tournament 2008 (Japan) (@1,031 posts) thread averages two posts per hour. I don't even want to mention the International Saimoe League 2008 - The Best of the Best (@10,467 posts) thread, since it's already challenging stats of the entire Music forum, and that one's been around forever.

In case you thought otherwise, this isn't a Saimoe expansion idea, I just want to see the Last Post block on the Forum Index page freed up for General Anime so I can quickly notice other important threads from there. Saimoe is an annual event and I can see it occupying eight to ten months a year. I see this as an issue, I'm not sure about you guys. My idea is to either move the thread somewhere else, perhaps create a new subforum for online events or something, or make a plea to the threads' authors to take their business elsewhere (these threads are just traffic swap places anyway).
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Old 2008-07-11, 09:50   Link #2
felix
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Turning it into a forum would just make it worse. Removing it may be just as unacaptable though.



Note to Mods May I ask what the position is on creating a hidden forum accesable to memebers? please

If these things get moved to such a place people could get to it if they know the link but it would not be part of mainstream animesuki anymore.
Of course this is just theory...
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Old 2008-07-11, 10:01   Link #3
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Is there some technical way to simply block those threads from taking the "most recent post" slot? Flag it somehow? I don't think the people who read that thread would care much about that... and it would involve the least amount of trouble.
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Old 2008-07-11, 10:11   Link #4
NightWish
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toua View Post
... either move the thread somewhere else, perhaps create a new subforum for online events or something...
Probably no to both. I'm not inclined to move it to any other existing forum as it would not fit. Creating a new forum for a single thread seems excessive, though if done, it would need to be limited, allowing replies only, to avoid spread. I will probably defer to the collective decision of the other staff members, which I think will probably be no.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cats View Post
May I ask what the position is on creating a hidden forum accesable to memebers?
Unlikely to happen because "hiding" it would obfuscate our maintenance of the site and thus risk creating, over time, a sort of virtual ghetto where staff visit infrequently at best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quarkboy View Post
Is there some technical way to simply block those threads from taking the "most recent post" slot?
As far as I am aware no such options exists.
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Old 2008-07-11, 11:45   Link #5
felix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quarkboy View Post
Is there some technical way to simply block those threads from taking the "most recent post" slot? Flag it somehow? I don't think the people who read that thread would care much about that... and it would involve the least amount of trouble.
There is one simple way.

If you sticky those threads they will not get counted.
Thus they will not obscure trafic. But well you understand...
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Old 2008-07-11, 12:02   Link #6
Daniel E.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toua View Post
In case you thought otherwise, this isn't a Saimoe expansion idea, I just want to see the Last Post block on the Forum Index page freed up for General Anime so I can quickly notice other important threads from there.
So, if you see one of the Saimoe threads on top do you simply ignore the General anime section all together?

Regardless of what thread is on top, most people that check that place regulary are going to see the whole section anyway, so I dont really see this as a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toua View Post
Saimoe is an annual event and I can see it occupying eight to ten months a year. I see this as an issue, I'm not sure about you guys. My idea is to either move the thread somewhere else, perhaps create a new subforum for online events or something, or make a plea to the threads' authors to take their business elsewhere (these threads are just traffic swap places anyway).
No offense or anything, but this strikes me as you simply wanting the Saimoe threads to disappear from the forum.

If the Saimoe threads multiply, and start to take the whole first page at all times, then I might agree with you at some point in the future.
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Old 2008-07-11, 13:48   Link #7
cyth
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@Daniel_E: I don't ignore the forum for this reason, that's just silly, but I confess I did miss discussion peaks of a couple of recent threads with topics I have interest in (for example, all recent industry threads). I don't frantically check General Anime everyday, and I'm sure not many other casual posters do, so that Last Post feature has its usefulness. Furthermore, you can quickly discern a popular thread if it stays in Last Post for some time. There's no doubt Saimoe threads are popular, but due to their "spammy" nature (you can't really deny this, just look at the posting numbers) and their longevity we can call them "cult" threads, and as big as they are, they need a status change because they are unique.

There's no need to feel threatened. I thought my suggestions were sound but not perfect, and I actually like Cats' idea about stickies (but don't stickies also display last posts on the index? Unless they are announcement topics), because if a casual user, like I am today, sees nothing but Saimoe, well... First and foremost, this is a psychological issue of web design and any sane web designer would see it as such.

Anyway, I don't feel like wasting my time on this anymore; it's no big deal. Do what you think it's best for the forum.
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Old 2008-07-11, 14:41   Link #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightWish View Post
Probably no to both. I'm not inclined to move it to any other existing forum as it would not fit. Creating a new forum for a single thread seems excessive, though if done, it would need to be limited, allowing replies only, to avoid spread. I will probably defer to the collective decision of the other staff members,
how about creating a subforum for all polls and not just for saimoe. You can fit in all the Saimoe contest and individual polls for series that don't have their owe forum in there.

Saimoe will end around oct
best moe in nov
ISML ends in sept but starts in jan.

you are looking at pretty much year round moe contests plus the various polls that sprang up now and again.
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Old 2008-07-11, 15:27   Link #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cats View Post
There is one simple way.

If you sticky those threads they will not get counted.
Thus they will not obscure trafic. But well you understand...
Is it possible to sticky them.... on the BOTTOM of the first page?

Then everyone is happy!
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Old 2008-07-11, 16:42   Link #10
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Originally Posted by Cats View Post
If you sticky those threads they will not get counted.
Thus they will not obscure trafic. But well you understand...
I don't know why you should think this but you are incorrect. A sticky thread will still show in the Last Post location so your suggestion doesn't help.
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Old 2008-07-12, 02:44   Link #11
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I can understand that the non-Saimoe followers would see this as a problem with the General Anime forum, but as someone who follows Saimoe, I would really like this change also, but for different reasons of course.

First of all, this isn't really a forum for just one thread. With the inclusion of ISML, this is pretty much an all-year event, and with nominations and discussions, I'd dare say that it will be active any time during the year. Second, like Toua said, I was once annoyed at the ISML thread popping up on top of the General Forum every time I went there also (when I wasn't into SaiMoe). If you think that the ISML thread is bad now, wait until J Saimoe's done with nominations and it will go faster than the ISML thread. Third, is also part of our fun. Having different forums to discuss anime hints at the fact that there are different ways to enjoy anime, and judging from the frequency of posts, there must be a lot of people enjoying the Saimoe tournaments. It wouldn't be such a bad idea to give it its own sub-forum.

Now the problem here is pretty much clear. I don't think that there's currently a moderator that (actively) follows Saimoe, and if there is, then it would be more extra work for him/her. If a restricted forum was created, then a thread creation request thread could be created. This way, a moderator can check back once in a while to create these threads, just like in the current subforums. I will admit that if the subforum is left completely open, then it would be a mess. I think it's worth a try.

I don't know how this could be viewed from an administrative point of view, but from a simple member's point of view, creating a subforum would satisfy both Saimoe followers and non-Saimoe followers.
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Old 2008-07-12, 04:38   Link #12
felix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quarkboy View Post
Is it possible to sticky them.... on the BOTTOM of the first page?

Then everyone is happy!
Well no unfortunatly... the closest you can get is to alter the templates so sub-forums are at the bottom of the page, and then subsequently create a sub-forum for saimoe. Its simple (the subforum code is easily moved in the template) but it may be too much of a head ache in practice. I know NighWish has a lot of things to worry about already. Well you could also move all stickies to the bottom but it will be forum wide change; I'm sure some people wouldn't like it.

@ xris - I think most people seem to just be annoyed by their presence there in the listing.
Well there does seem to be more then one issue with them expressed in the thread.
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Old 2008-07-12, 06:40   Link #13
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Moving all stickies to the bottom would somewhat defeat the entire purpose of them being sticky though, which is obvious exposure of important threads as soon as you enter a forum.
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Old 2008-07-12, 11:09   Link #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KholdStare View Post
I can understand that the non-Saimoe followers would see this as a problem with the General Anime forum, but as someone who follows Saimoe, I would really like this change also, but for different reasons of course.

First of all, this isn't really a forum for just one thread. With the inclusion of ISML, this is pretty much an all-year event, and with nominations and discussions, I'd dare say that it will be active any time during the year. Second, like Toua said, I was once annoyed at the ISML thread popping up on top of the General Forum every time I went there also (when I wasn't into SaiMoe). If you think that the ISML thread is bad now, wait until J Saimoe's done with nominations and it will go faster than the ISML thread. Third, is also part of our fun. Having different forums to discuss anime hints at the fact that there are different ways to enjoy anime, and judging from the frequency of posts, there must be a lot of people enjoying the Saimoe tournaments. It wouldn't be such a bad idea to give it its own sub-forum.

Now the problem here is pretty much clear. I don't think that there's currently a moderator that (actively) follows Saimoe, and if there is, then it would be more extra work for him/her. If a restricted forum was created, then a thread creation request thread could be created. This way, a moderator can check back once in a while to create these threads, just like in the current subforums. I will admit that if the subforum is left completely open, then it would be a mess. I think it's worth a try.

I don't know how this could be viewed from an administrative point of view, but from a simple member's point of view, creating a subforum would satisfy both Saimoe followers and non-Saimoe followers.
The solution to that is to hire members who are into Saimoe, have frequently posted in their respective threads, followed AnimeSuki rules properly, and so on. But at this point, I don't think the moderators would take lightly into that.

The best option I can think of is to create a new group (Saimoe staff) to be able to have moderator options within that subforum and that subforum only.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
how about creating a subforum for all polls and not just for saimoe. You can fit in all the Saimoe contest and individual polls for series that don't have their owe forum in there.

Saimoe will end around oct
best moe in nov
ISML ends in sept but starts in jan.

you are looking at pretty much year round moe contests plus the various polls that sprang up now and again.
He's right. According to my plan book (which has so many scribbles and arrows, I may add), ISML 2009 promotion begins one week after the end of Korea Super Best Moe.
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Old 2008-07-13, 12:06   Link #15
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I support the creation of a "Tournament" subforum of sorts if it means a little bit less animosity among members. I think all the Saimoe regulars don't care where they end up, and if non-Saimoe members want a separate place for us, that's fine.

It won't be a whole forum just for one thread; as said already, other moe tournaments can have threads in there. And we can do SaiGAR and other battles if the subforum is titled "Tournaments" rather than "General Saimoe." AnimeSuki could hold its own tournaments in there, too, should the members or staff ever want to, so the forum would have multiple uses.

It's probably not necessary to hire more mods either. Or just give partial access as mintham suggested, to be able to do some topic management as necessary but not having a whole lot of power. He or she can be the liaison with the full mods on AS.
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Old 2008-07-13, 12:20   Link #16
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Actually, a "Tournament" sub-forum instead of being specific to Saimoe might be a great idea.
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Old 2008-07-13, 12:27   Link #17
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Saimoe is the reason for me to join and to participate in the forum. The whole contest is fun, the voting and stuff, and for me it helped me a lot finding information about animes I like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisu View Post
I support the creation of a "Tournament" subforum of sorts if it means a little bit less animosity among members. I think all the Saimoe regulars don't care where they end up, and if non-Saimoe members want a separate place for us, that's fine.

It won't be a whole forum just for one thread; as said already, other moe tournaments can have threads in there. And we can do SaiGAR and other battles if the subforum is titled "Tournaments" rather than "General Saimoe." AnimeSuki could hold its own tournaments in there, too, should the members or staff ever want to, so the forum would have multiple uses.

It's probably not necessary to hire more mods either. Or just give partial access as mintham suggested, to be able to do some topic management as necessary but not having a whole lot of power. He or she can be the liaison with the full mods on AS.
Not only SaiGar or SaiMoe, but also SaiLoli, SaiMeido and other types of tournaments, even for male characters, but I don't know the word to describe the male archetypes.
It's not only about most moe popularity, or character popularity by archetype, it can also be a couple tournament or most evil villain tournament for example ( You guys have the imagination, let it spark ).
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Old 2008-07-13, 13:16   Link #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisu View Post
I support the creation of a "Tournament" subforum of sorts if it means a little bit less animosity among members. I think all the Saimoe regulars don't care where they end up, and if non-Saimoe members want a separate place for us, that's fine.

It won't be a whole forum just for one thread; as said already, other moe tournaments can have threads in there. And we can do SaiGAR and other battles if the subforum is titled "Tournaments" rather than "General Saimoe." AnimeSuki could hold its own tournaments in there, too, should the members or staff ever want to, so the forum would have multiple uses.

It's probably not necessary to hire more mods either. Or just give partial access as mintham suggested, to be able to do some topic management as necessary but not having a whole lot of power. He or she can be the liaison with the full mods on AS.
I have been participating in the Saimoe tournament for several years, and I like the idea of a "Tournament" subforum as a general concept. But I strongly disagree with the notion that it will not require additional - or at least far more stringent - moderation. Saimoe type threads have a propensity for degenerating into a complete mess if the rules are not rigorously enforced.

Just take a good look at the current ISML thread as a prime example. If the constant off-topic discussions and floods of 4-chan style posts that are essentially the same small group of people engaged in a never-ending circular smack-fest with each other wasn't bad enough, lately people have started posting transcripts of their IRC chat sessions. Although I am still participating in the tournament itself, I've pretty much given up on the ISML thread here because it simply is not worth wading through the pages and pages of unrelated drek and chatroom spam trying to find the occasional post that might actually contain relevant information about the characters, the series, or the tournament in general.

So I do like the idea of a separate area for Tournament threads, but not if if will simply lead to more and bigger versions of something that is, IMO, already out of control.
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Old 2008-07-13, 13:20   Link #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furudanuki View Post
I have been participating in the Saimoe tournament for several years, and I like the idea of a "Tournament" subforum as a general concept. But I strongly disagree with the notion that it will not require additional - or at least far more stringent - moderation. Saimoe type threads have a propensity for degenerating into a complete mess if the rules are not rigorously enforced.

Just take a good look at the current ISML thread as a prime example. If the constant off-topic discussions and floods of 4-chan style posts that are essentially the same small group of people engaged in a never-ending circular smack-fest with each other wasn't bad enough, lately people have started posting transcripts of their IRC chat sessions. Although I am still participating in the tournament itself, I've pretty much given up on the ISML thread here because it simply is not worth wading through the pages and pages of unrelated drek and chatroom spam trying to find the occasional post that might actually contain relevant information about the characters, the series, or the tournament in general.

So I do like the idea of a separate area for Tournament threads, but not if if will simply lead to more and bigger versions of something that is, IMO, already out of control.
Oh, you don't have to worry about that anymore. The new IRC channel will pretty much handle most of the off-topicness from now on, hence the reason why we posted logs to get people to come. Actually, the recent few pages are very on-topic (except for the IRC logs). We do know when enough is enough you know.
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Old 2008-07-13, 15:54   Link #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furudanuki View Post
I have been participating in the Saimoe tournament for several years, and I like the idea of a "Tournament" subforum as a general concept. But I strongly disagree with the notion that it will not require additional - or at least far more stringent - moderation. Saimoe type threads have a propensity for degenerating into a complete mess if the rules are not rigorously enforced.

Just take a good look at the current ISML thread as a prime example. If the constant off-topic discussions and floods of 4-chan style posts that are essentially the same small group of people engaged in a never-ending circular smack-fest with each other wasn't bad enough, lately people have started posting transcripts of their IRC chat sessions. Although I am still participating in the tournament itself, I've pretty much given up on the ISML thread here because it simply is not worth wading through the pages and pages of unrelated drek and chatroom spam trying to find the occasional post that might actually contain relevant information about the characters, the series, or the tournament in general.

So I do like the idea of a separate area for Tournament threads, but not if if will simply lead to more and bigger versions of something that is, IMO, already out of control.
I can't believe someone pointed out the truth like that

/claps.

Personally I think it is just overkill to have a subforum for any version of Saimoe. The single thread has been sufficient before and will continue to be so imo.
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