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Old 2008-06-12, 08:49   Link #1081
yezhanquan
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Claymore is closer to seinen to shounen as far as I'm concerned. This is why I was convinced right from the beginning that there's a greater conspiracy.

With that said, Yagi-sensei should try to get things moving. I hate to see Claymore become the next Ah My Goddess.
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Old 2008-06-12, 10:26   Link #1082
Korinov
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Originally Posted by Cyclone View Post
Frankly though, I've never been a fan of the whole "Teresa invited sex, therefore she must be infertile" theory. I really see no solid reasoning behind it. You know that I too worship Teresa, but I really do see her a a very lonely person. I imagine it would grate on her that, despite being drop-dead gorgeous, everytime someone sees her silver eyes or, if they get past that, her naked body, they run for the tall grass. I mean really, she probably was getting close to 30, and judging by those idiotic bandits' overreaction to some slight blemmish on her chest, she was probably not very sexually active. Beggers can't really be choosers. In some ways I think Teresa might even have been a little disappointed when Clare bonked that idiot over the head (it's not like she didn't have other options, as the Organization has only a rule about killing, not giving out beatings to within an inch of someone's life).

Mentally, most Claymores seem to be scarred enough to almost not wish whether the live or die. It would not be unsual to think that the same mental scarring they possess would extend to other areas, like sexuality. For all we know, the isolation of being a Claymore might make them want to be loved, and some might just decide to equate that to the physical act of love making. I suspect they'd all make very interesting case studies for Sigmund Freud.
Well, I suppose that being alone as Claymores are (most of them are really alone all their lifes) can be truly horrible. Thinking seriously about it, without exceptions like Helen or Deneve (close friends), most of them speak only to one MiB.

But i think saying Teresa was 'dissapointed' because Clare bonked that guy, it's too much. Maybe from Teresa's point of view being raped by that jerk was not really terrible 'cause she was not human anymore and she hasn't any honor to defend. Plus, that pain couldn't be compared with being turned into a monster like the MiB did to her.

We're only making speculations, of course... maybe when she got demi-naked in front of the bandits she was really looking for some "fun", or maybe she was so sure that they would "run for the tall grass" that she did it to get them lost. Who knows.

Quote:
As for risk of pregnancy... I doubt that without unplanned pregnancies, the human race would have survived long - they're not exactly rare. Furthermore, as you say, with Clare being able to do things like stretch her vocal chords, dislodging an embryo from the uterus would probably not be difficult either for a Claymore.
In Chapter 25, page 23, when Helen sees Raki at first time, she says to Clare: Oh, you brought a child. It can't be your own, so you picked up a stray on the road. Of course, I seriously doubt than Helen had tried to "make a child" before, but it sounds like Claymores are really sterile. Maybe the MiB told everyone that in orden to prevent possible problems. Maybe it's not true, I dunno.

Quote:
When Cid kissed Clare, it was Raki who was all upset, not Clare. Clare was surprised yes, but the typical shonen manga female reaction to such an event would have been a quick KO by uppercut or by a 10 ton hammer from hammerspace. Similarly, when the awakened Pricilla was prancing around in her birthday suit up north, at least 2 guys didn't spout nose bleeds, cover their eyes and try to run away either.

Similarly, there have been a lot of suggestions that the Claymore universe is not asexual. Duff and Riful, Duff and Clare/Galatea, Agatha, Teressa and bandits, Clare's brother, to name but a few. I just don't see Yagi making a world where sex happens, but children from it do not. It seems like a ridiculous concept, that if I had to guess, is meant to get around some rating bureau or something. I don't really see Yagi playing along with such nonsense.
Like someone said before, Claymore is closer to Seinen to Shounen, specially since Agatha's showing up. In fact, it was a very reallistic manga, at least before Raki 2: Superman returns. But I think we'll be told in the future even about Raki's superpowers.
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Old 2008-06-12, 11:54   Link #1083
aurr
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Similarly, there have been a lot of suggestions that the Claymore universe is not asexual. Duff and Riful, Duff and Clare/Galatea, Agatha, Teressa and bandits, Clare's brother, to name but a few. I just don't see Yagi making a world where sex happens, but children from it do not. It seems like a ridiculous concept, that if I had to guess, is meant to get around some rating bureau or something. I don't really see Yagi playing along with such nonsense.
W-w-wait, Clare had a bro?!
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Old 2008-06-12, 12:43   Link #1084
whinnifers
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Originally Posted by aurr View Post
W-w-wait, Clare had a bro?!
She did, he's mentioned in Chapter 3 in the manga and that scene appears in the anime as well. But, I'm gonna admit that I'm not sure how it relates to the whole sex thing.

I'm just tossing my vote in for likely sterile. I thought earlier discussions concluded that Teresa's scars were caused by the process of becoming a Claymore, and who knows how much of her torso they covered, but if the organization did indeed fiddle with the internals, I would assume that they would do something to that to prevent unwanted pregnancies. They are trying to create warriors, after all.

Regardless, that doesn't mean they don't have a libido. Sex happens, and if they're as human as they claim then it's only natural. Saying Teresa was disappointed though... I... really can't... yeah, nevermind. It all depends on whether or not Yagi decides it's important to the story for it to earn mention - either as some kind of plot device or just to give the reader a feel for what a character is like and what's important to them. All I can recall offhand is that Riful and Agatha both implied that they do it just to do it. I doubt it has anything to do with awakening, or being a villain.

Actually, it has everything to do with being a villain. Clearly, only the villains have sex. I think I'm on to something.

Edit: I think I'd like to clarify something, also. This doesn't mean I think they totally run around and woo people. If I were a half-demon, constantly fighting for sanity and conscience I'm pretty sure sex would be the last thing on my mind. Just my two cents.

Last edited by whinnifers; 2008-06-12 at 12:50. Reason: Lolclarity
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Old 2008-06-12, 12:53   Link #1085
tenken627
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Originally Posted by Cyclone View Post
I just don't see Yagi making a world where sex happens, but children from it do not. It seems like a ridiculous concept, that if I had to guess, is meant to get around some rating bureau or something. I don't really see Yagi playing along with such nonsense.
Well, the Japanese culture is sexually open compared to many Western cultures, and yet they have one of the lowest birth rates in the world.

In fact, the push for robotics is their gamble that robots will replace their old and aging workforce. They just don't have that many young children that can replace the elderly and maintain Japan's standard of living, and unlike the Western nations, Japan can not (or will not) rely on immigration. But that's getting way off topic.

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Originally Posted by whinnifers View Post
Regardless, that doesn't mean they don't have a libido. Sex happens, and if they're as human as they claim then it's only natural. Saying Teresa was disappointed though... I... really can't... yeah, nevermind. It all depends on whether or not Yagi decides it's important to the story for it to earn mention - either as some kind of plot device or just to give the reader a feel for what a character is like and what's important to them. All I can recall offhand is that Riful and Agatha both implied that they do it just to do it. I doubt it has anything to do with awakening, or being a villain.

Actually, it has everything to do with being a villain. Clearly, only the villains have sex. I think I'm on to something.

Edit: I think I'd like to clarify something, also. This doesn't mean I think they totally run around and woo people. If I were a half-demon, constantly fighting for sanity and conscience I'm pretty sure sex would be the last thing on my mind. Just my two cents.
I actually think that Awakening enlarges all base desires, appetites and impulses. Agatha and Luciela both use sexual innuendos, which means that both have sex on their mind. The Awakening process itself is described as an extremely pleasurable experience.

We all know about the enormous appetites of ABs to feed. And ABs also seem largely inclined to instances of bloodlust as shown in their war against the DoDs where they tried to kill everything in sight until they themselves were destroyed. In fact, ABs are uncontrollable due to their impulses and whims that they themselves can not control. While some ABs like Isley, Riful, and Luciela are largely rational creatures, they no longer feel the need to keep human value norms or empathy because those are secondary to their urges. Much like vampires, ABs are slaves to their own passions.

Even though Claymores are lonely, mistreated, and misunderstood, they still fulfill their duty as "supposed" protectors of humanity. Their responsibilities and obligations really leave them no time to have friends or loved ones, or even think about them. I would imagine that around the time a Claymore starts thinking about life outside of the Claymore way would be around the time when she is sent to her death by the Organization. These girls have been harshly trained since early childhood to do one thing and one thing only.

Awakening releases them of those obligations and constraints.

Last edited by tenken627; 2008-06-12 at 13:44.
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Old 2008-06-12, 14:48   Link #1086
chibamonster
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@Cyclone: I don't think I spoiled the ending of the elfen lied anime so you should be all right . I think it is more of an issue in the manga, but the manga is quite a bit different and is drawn incredibly poorly. It is almost unbelievable that it is published. Like the first few chapters of Angel Densetsu.

I certainly think that AB's are interested in the art of love if Agatha's invitation to Cid and Riful's relationship with Duff is any indication. If only Agatha had approached Cid in her human form he might not have rejected her so badly. If Claymore did have someone with kids I would flip because there are so few manga's that treat their characters as actual humans with the ability to reproduce or to grow into adults. As Cyclone mentioned the usual manga/anime romance themes are lacking (well, not in the anime when Raki tackles Priscilla and Evangelion's his hand onto her breast. I mean seriously...)

I am against Teresa being desperate and wanting to be raped/assaulted by a group of bandits. She was disgusted that this was a human she lived to protect. Although her mind changed pretty quick when she saw Clare as another human she lived to protect. Although her initial reaction to the bandits was something else and like nothing I had ever seen which really established Teresa as someone not human.

I figure that even with a low birthrate, dozens and dozens of AB's running around for around a century would have produced some offspring by now. Although maybe they have and there is a reason we have not heard about them yet. Maybe they are normal youma, there are complications, maybe they can only have kids with another AB, ... any number of things could explain AB Babies if Yagi wanted to go that way. If AB's do have children then maybe the common practice is to eat them. And that is an awful thought. Sorry.
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Old 2008-06-12, 16:37   Link #1087
clarakiss~
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Originally Posted by Cyclone View Post
When Cid kissed Clare, it was Raki who was all upset, not Clare. Clare was surprised yes, but the typical shonen manga female reaction to such an event would have been a quick KO by uppercut or by a 10 ton hammer from hammerspace. Similarly, when the awakened Pricilla was prancing around in her birthday suit up north, at least 2 guys didn't spout nose bleeds, cover their eyes and try to run away either.
after she sees raki has grown into an adult, clare will probably have an opposite reaction this time and clobber whoever tries to kiss her (cid ). at the time, clare only saw raki as a kid but now, it'll be a different story.

@ chibamonster - if awakened beings did had the ability to make children, isley would've had many offsprings by now, since he's the oldest claymore in the story so i don't think it's possible. and if they did... the entire claymore world would have been completely over run with awakened beings.
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Old 2008-06-12, 16:45   Link #1088
PGilis
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Originally Posted by clarakiss~ View Post
after she sees raki has grown into an adult, clare will probably have an opposite reaction this time and clobber whoever tries to kiss her (cid ). at the time, clare only saw raki as a kid but now, it'll be a different story.
Yeah, and probably she will clobber whoever of her "best" friends who tries to kiss HIM, too. Specially Helen!
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Old 2008-06-12, 17:04   Link #1089
clarakiss~
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Originally Posted by PGilis View Post
Yeah, and probably she will clobber whoever of her "best" friends who tries to kiss HIM, too. Specially Helen!
tough times ahead for clare i'm afraid... avenging teresa, taking down the organization, finding raki and keeping the girls away from raki 24/7 u.u

if i were her, the first thing i'd do is put my mark (hicky) on him so it'll keep all the predators away >.> *looks at helen*
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Old 2008-06-12, 17:32   Link #1090
evil_kenshin
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Originally Posted by clarakiss~ View Post
@ chibamonster - if awakened beings did had the ability to make children, isley would've had many offsprings by now, since he's the oldest claymore in the story so i don't think it's possible. and if they did... the entire claymore world would have been completely over run with awakened beings.
While true for whatever reason all the male awakened beings (apart from the 6 armed one who worked for the organization and dauf) were up in the north, while all the females were in the other area's so its possibly an explanation (and due to Riful's awakened form it would be impossible to have children cause she splits up)
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Old 2008-06-12, 17:32   Link #1091
nekowai
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Hmm...i wonder where they get their black outfits, they dressed miata pretty quickly, i wonder if they carry extra uniforms with them O_o
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Old 2008-06-12, 17:52   Link #1092
clarakiss~
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dressed maita? where did you see that? *checks* brb ^^;
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Old 2008-06-12, 17:57   Link #1093
evil_kenshin
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Originally Posted by nekowai View Post
Hmm...i wonder where they get their black outfits, they dressed miata pretty quickly, i wonder if they carry extra uniforms with them O_o
miata's still wearing her org uniform as is clarice , galatea is in her nun outfit (well atleast whats left with it), so theres no one in new uniforms yet?? (maybe i missed it)
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Old 2008-06-12, 18:12   Link #1094
Griffen-Derek
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Which one is not like the others?




hmmmmm... Clarice.

She's the only one of those four who doesn't have any power. Any at all.
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Old 2008-06-12, 18:13   Link #1095
evil_kenshin
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hmmmmm... Clarice.

She's the only one of those four who doesn't have any power. Any at all.
she has milk which seems to be a power in its own
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Old 2008-06-12, 18:42   Link #1096
Griffen-Derek
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Originally Posted by tenken627 View Post
Well, the Japanese culture is sexually open compared to many Western cultures
Speaking of japanese culture, and going back to Ophelia's arc: anyone care to revive any thoughts about the real meaning of Clare kissing Raki?

It seemed to me that it was more like a vow of trust and confidence, a way to make Raki feel strong enough in order to survive alone out there, rather than meaning some sort of love bond or anything like a romantic tie between them, or anything like that.

And I still think she took Raki under her wing because he lost his family pretty much like she lost her own. Because she was saved by a Claymore from the Youma disguised as her elder brother, which is the very same way how she saved him. And because she was able do for him what Teresa did for her, which is a symbolic, yet beautiful way to honour and keep saying thanks to Teresa for all her love, care and efforts.
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Old 2008-06-12, 18:47   Link #1097
evil_kenshin
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Originally Posted by Griffen-Derek View Post
Speaking of japanese culture, and going back to Ophelia's arc: anyone care to revive any thoughts about the real meaning of Clare kissing Raki?

It seemed to me that it was more like a vow of trust and confidence, a way to make Raki feel strong enough in order to survive alone out there, rather than meaning some sort of love bond or anything like a romantic tie between them, or anything like that.

And I still think she took Raki under her wing because he lost his family pretty much like she lost her own. Because she was saved by a Claymore from the Youma disguised as her elder brother, which is the very same way how she saved him. And because she was able do for him what Teresa did for her, which is a symbolic, yet beautiful way to honour and keep saying thanks to Teresa for all her love, care and efforts.
whether or not it was then, clearly romantic ties will happen now which is the reason for the 7 year timeskip. The anime clearly made it one of love and the manga was more indecisive but since Yagi had some say in the anime, its intention was one of romanticism
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Old 2008-06-12, 18:53   Link #1098
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Originally Posted by evil_kenshin View Post
she has milk which seems to be a power in its own
It's never clear whether Clarice produces milk or not. "Breastfeeding", as well as cradling, is a common way to calm down a child. Chiefly when there is not a pacifier nearby. And the act of breastfeeding does not imply the child is being fed for real.

Besides, taking what Helen says to tease Clare when she notices Raki for the first time, no Claymore will ever be able to produce any milk at all.

Of course Helen can't be taken too seriously: either she was referring to Claymores being sterile, OR she was assuming no man on the land would be interested or brave enough to fall in love with a "Silver-Eyed Witch".
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Old 2008-06-12, 18:54   Link #1099
evil_kenshin
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Originally Posted by Griffen-Derek View Post
It's never clear whether Clarice produces milk or not. "Breastfeeding", as well as cradling, is a common way to calm down a child. Chiefly when there is not a pacifier nearby. And the act of breastfeeding does not imply the child is being fed for real.

Besides, taking what Helen says to tease Clare when she notices Raki for the first time, no Claymore will ever be able to produce any milk at all.

Of course Helen can't be taken too seriously: either she was referring to Claymores being sterile, OR she was assuming no man on the land would be interested or brave enough to fall in love with a "Silver-Eyed Witch".
no idea, its not going to be revealed nor going to be expanded upon *shrugs*. Think about it this way when would a claymore have time to have a child, the organization ain't about to let them take maternity leave considering how the organization behave i bet it was against the rules
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Old 2008-06-12, 19:09   Link #1100
PureYoki
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Theory 1
From a biological point of view, there's a high probability that claymores (half yoma, half human hybrids) are sterile. For example mules (offspring of a male donkey and a female horse) are almost always sterile. Teresa let the guy have sex with her because she knew she wouldn't get pregnant. But it doesn't mean claymores don't have sexual urges.

On the other hand ABs can assume a completely human form (presumably with reproductive organs intact) and thus may be able to reproduce. I think if female ABs have the ability to get pregnant, they should keep their human form during their pregnancy. This prerequisite alone may be the reason why we didn't see any offspring yet.

And if they can get pregnant, the father may be either a male AB or a male human.

Theory 2
Claymores may have children but it's strictly forbidden by the organization. (A pregnant warrior is no use to them.) Getting pregnant is optional for them after an intercourse. (the same way they get drunk) Teresa let the guy have sex with her because she knew she could prevent getting pregnant.

ABs can also have children but we have seen only 2 couples until now. Riful doesn't want to have Dauf's children (she would prefer Isley or Rigardo), and Isley and Priscilla already had one. (the girl on Raki's shoulder)

Theory 3
Neither female ABs nor female claymores can get pregnant, their immunity systems kill the embryo as a defense mechanism. The girl on Raki's shoulder is offspring of Isley and a female human. Her mother died after giving birth due to child's yoma blood complications and Isley said he had no interest in the child, so Raki adopted her.
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