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Old 2010-07-29, 09:34   Link #2361
DragoZERO
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Originally Posted by Moczo View Post
Kinoko Nasu feeds on your tears. They can be of sadness or terror, either one is fine with him. Both make him stronger.


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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
He's really not that bad compared to some others. Even so, Sakura's story is still one of the most depressing and sick I've ever read/seen. Penis worms certainly aren't nice. Poor, poor Sakura (I'm still pissed Zouken got off so easy...)
Tsukihime is rather tame compared to this, at least from what I can remember.
Yeah, broke my heart. Such a pure hearted girl,

With regards to Tsukihime, I am going to play that one the next time I go on vacation. I found a PSP version and will need something to do while traveling.
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Old 2010-07-29, 10:14   Link #2362
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Tsukihime was not exactly fluffy. It's tamer in the sense that less gets explicitly spelled out, but I personally find that more effective because I have a seriously overactive imagination.

And even then, things tend to get very icky very quickly once assorted vampires get involved.
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Old 2010-07-29, 12:38   Link #2363
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What!? Did Nasu write this? With what I heard about Tsukihime and this, the guy needs some professional help.
Actually, no, he didn't, although he (presumably) came up with the basic concepts (Sakura's situation is obviously Nasu's invention, for example...).

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Yeah, broke my heart. Such a pure hearted girl,
Yeah. Poor, poor Sakura....

She just doesn't deserve even a millionth of the suffering she went through. And, yeah, Zouken gets off far too lightly. Hell, he gets away scot-free in two routes (unless Rin or Shirou deal with him later...).

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Tsukihime was not exactly fluffy. It's tamer in the sense that less gets explicitly spelled out, but I personally find that more effective because I have a seriously overactive imagination.
Well not much of what happened to Sakura really gets spelt out in HF. It's more done by implication. And, yeah, that to me was probably more effective.

But, still, Sakura's situation is ten times worse than anything in Tsukihime, at least in terms of how heart-breaking it is....
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Old 2010-07-29, 13:16   Link #2364
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Sakura would be a boring character without Zouken. You should thank him for making her interesting. By the way, I didn't say that .

Ah it is good to hear Shinji's voice again in this VN. Playing through UBW, I just love to hate him. Of course, he's the worst in HF.

And whoever said Tsukihime is fluffy, then F/S N must be a field of sunflowers... That VN is like HF at 100% all the time.
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Old 2010-07-29, 13:21   Link #2365
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Sakura would be a boring character without Zouken. You should thank him for making her interesting.
No, she wouldn't.

Without Zouken, Sakura would be a totally different person, probably somewhat like Rin. All of the things that people use as evidence that she's a 'boring' character are personality traits that developed as a result of Zouken's abuse.
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Old 2010-07-29, 14:11   Link #2366
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Which is why she would be boring, there'd be no need to save her, turning her into a Rin who has far less potential, making her boring.
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Old 2010-07-29, 14:15   Link #2367
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Which is why she would be boring, there'd be no need to save her, turning her into a Rin who has far less potential, making her boring.
Rubbish.

She's be different, yes, but not boring. She wouldn't simply be "a Rin with far less potential". For a start, she has just as much inate potential as a magus as Rin does, it's just that her father and Zouken between them squandered most of it (Tokiomi because he's a moron and gave her to Zouken and Zouken because he couldn't give a shit).

The problem is that we don't know how they'd have turned out in such a situation. Sakura's life would be very different, but we have no idea what position she'd be in. However, Tokiomi makes it quite clear that simply leaving her untrained is not an option, and thus she'd be a magus in some manner. However, whilst she has a similar base personality to Rin, she's not identical to Rin. She would have her own life and her own way of living it, just like Rin does. I don't see how that would make her 'boring'.
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Old 2010-07-29, 14:50   Link #2368
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And whoever said Tsukihime is fluffy, then F/S N must be a field of sunflowers... That VN is like HF at 100% all the time.
I never said Tsukihime was fluffy. I was only comparing it to Sakura's story, which in my opinion is the most depressing/disgusting/sick out of all the Type-moon heroines'. What she's had to endure for all these years is just horrendous. But don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the lives of the Tsukihime heroines were a walk in the park... most of them had it tough as well. Nasu loves tragic heroines.
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Old 2010-07-29, 15:36   Link #2369
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Sakura, correct me if I'm wrong, couldn't really obtain the Makiri Crest. As the circuits disappeared within the Makiri family, the knowledge would become inaccessible even if it were on the crest, making it fade away. The Makiri Crest, then, would be nothing more than a shadow of its formal self, while the Tosaka Crest is still immensely powerful (though still nothing compared to the Einzbern Crest)
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Old 2010-07-29, 17:37   Link #2370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover View Post
Well not much of what happened to Sakura really gets spelt out in HF. It's more done by implication. And, yeah, that to me was probably more effective.

But, still, Sakura's situation is ten times worse than anything in Tsukihime, at least in terms of how heart-breaking it is....
I can agree that Sakura's had a worse life than any of the Tsukihime characters (which makes sense, as her past is basically a combination of the bad things that happened to two of them). But overall, I'd say that Tsukihime's a darker game if only by virtue of quantity. It just has that depressing, grim HF tone to it all the time.
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Old 2010-07-29, 17:48   Link #2371
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@Flinch: Well, the whole torture part was partially cause to make Sakura accustom to the Makiri magic and crest. They were successful and as Rin noted they both could control 1000 units of prana which suggests the Matou Crest was fully active. After HF though...I am unsure. Kirei cleaned out most of the worms and Sakura did the rest. It's unsure whether the Crest Worms are the Matou Crest or not cause of Sakura and Rin fought on even grounds (without a Crest Sakura shouldn't have the exact same output as Rin). It's likely she has it though relucant to use due to the Matou magic's nature(stealing, robing and leeching). In HA she learns how to apply her shadow magic and use it even in battle. In Hf epilogue Rin believed if Sakura decides to take up magic and become a real magus, her night-infinite supplies of magic energy would make her an incredibly powerful magus.

@Moczo: Not really. What has been done to Kohaku is far less grim than Sakura's. In comparison Sakura's situation is like combining Ciel's insane torture with Kohaku's life and mixing some inversion impulse in it.Tsukihime doesn't play with your emotions as much as pumps up your paranoia factor and freak you out with the various situations where people go crazy. Really, except one heroine all of them can come for your neck during the course of the various routes. Tsukihime is a mystery with quite large dose of action/horror.
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Old 2010-07-29, 18:13   Link #2372
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Actually, no, he didn't, although he (presumably) came up with the basic concepts (Sakura's situation is obviously Nasu's invention, for example...).
Well, whoever did the writing needs help, lol.

Quote:
Yeah. Poor, poor Sakura....

She just doesn't deserve even a millionth of the suffering she went through. And, yeah, Zouken gets off far too lightly. Hell, he gets away scot-free in two routes (unless Rin or Shirou deal with him later...).
Yeah, he did get off lightly. Even after Sakura killed him he was still alive. He really was a little worm. But in the other routes, I don't know. I like thinking that they later killed him and freed Sakura.

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Well not much of what happened to Sakura really gets spelt out in HF. It's more done by implication. And, yeah, that to me was probably more effective.
Definitely. Not knowing exactly what happens leaves you with a ton of possibilities, all of which incite pain and rage.

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Which is why she would be boring, there'd be no need to save her, turning her into a Rin who has far less potential, making her boring.
Nahh. So long as she met Shirou, she would be interesting.
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Old 2010-07-29, 18:33   Link #2373
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@Moczo: Not really. What has been done to Kohaku is far less grim than Sakura's. In comparison Sakura's situation is like combining Ciel's insane torture with Kohaku's life and mixing some inversion impulse in it.
That's... that's kinda what I said. Though on thinking about it, I guess it would be more accurate to say Sakura is a combination of Kohaku's past and SHIKI's past, so she's a combination of one heroine and one villain...
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Old 2010-07-29, 18:49   Link #2374
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SHIKI isn't really a bad person, you know. His only sin was being possessed by Roa, and having Kohaku drug him out his mind in the Far-Side routes. Come to think of it, his life is probably wors than Sakura's, and that's saying something...
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Old 2010-07-29, 19:10   Link #2375
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Yeah. I guess I should say 'antagonist' instead of villain.
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Old 2010-07-30, 12:54   Link #2376
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Sakura, correct me if I'm wrong, couldn't really obtain the Makiri Crest. As the circuits disappeared within the Makiri family, the knowledge would become inaccessible even if it were on the crest, making it fade away.
You're wrong. The Makiri crest is stored in Zouken's worms. Having said that, given that the entire purpose of the discussion is what Sakura would be like if Zouken hadn't implanted the worms in her and tortured her for eleven years, your basic premise is still valid, even if the reasoning behind it is wrong.

Quote:
The Makiri Crest, then, would be nothing more than a shadow of its formal self, while the Tosaka Crest is still immensely powerful (though still nothing compared to the Einzbern Crest)
But not having a Magic Crest doesn't automatically make you a 'boring' character. After all, Shirou doesn't have one, and nor does he have even a tenth of the potential as a magus that Sakura has, and yet he still manages to be interesting as a character.

Just because Sakura (without a crest) isn't likely to ever come even close to Rin as a general magus, her elemental affinity makes her considerably better than Rin when it comes to fighting heroic spirits, and her personality would be just as interesting as Rin's would. Plus, even though Rin and Sakura are kind, loving girls and would likely care for each other more than anything else, there's still bound to be some tension in the family if Sakura had remained a Tohsaka. That in itself could be a cause of a huge amount of interest.

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Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
SHIKI isn't really a bad person, you know. His only sin was being possessed by Roa, and having Kohaku drug him out his mind in the Far-Side routes. Come to think of it, his life is probably wors than Sakura's, and that's saying something...
Well, given that the analogy was to Sakura, who is most definitely not a bad person, I think that to assume that he was attacking SHIKI with that statement was somewhat rash....
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Old 2010-07-31, 22:06   Link #2377
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"This sword is truly a sword that only the king of heroes possesses. It has no name, so I just call it Ea."

Oh, Nasu. Only you could write out something that basically adds up to, "This thing has no name, here is its name," and somehow make it sound reasonable.

Last edited by Moczo; 2010-07-31 at 23:28.
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Old 2010-08-01, 20:36   Link #2378
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Anyone here watch Hayate the Combat Butler? It's a comedy series will a lot of parodies. I am watching it slowly and just watched episode 24. Those are totally Black Keys!

Spoiler for Images:
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Old 2010-08-01, 20:57   Link #2379
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Ah, Hayate.

When people depend on him, a butler's combat ability is doubled...
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Old 2010-08-02, 00:03   Link #2380
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Haha, that picture of Hayate holding the keys is priceless. I can't believe I forgot about it, though it's been a while since I saw the first season.
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