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Old 2010-08-28, 00:02   Link #2821
Cherry_Lover
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Originally Posted by RadiantBeam View Post
I have to admit for me, there was no real conflict about it. It was pretty obvious from the beginning that Sakura was going to give in to the madness. Actually seeing her struggle with the darkness was interesting, though.
Well, like DragoZERO said, she never truly gave in (except in the last bad end), and she did a very good job of struggling against it. In the last few days before she broke her mind was barely even there, due to the pressure of Angra Mainyu and also due to being a Grail.

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And when she gives in finally... holy crap, she is awesome. How bad of me is it that I wished Sakura was more like Dark Sakura in terms of personality?
I wish normal Sakura could have Dark Sakura's powers, yes, but never her personality. Dark Sakura isn't any stronger than normal Sakura is. In fact, she's weaker. But, when you're all-powerful, it doesn't require much mental strength to go around doing whatever you like....

If normal Sakura had Dark Sakura's self-regeneration abilities, Zouken would likely have been dead long ago.
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Old 2010-08-28, 12:45   Link #2822
RadiantBeam
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Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover View Post
I wish normal Sakura could have Dark Sakura's powers, yes, but never her personality. Dark Sakura isn't any stronger than normal Sakura is. In fact, she's weaker. But, when you're all-powerful, it doesn't require much mental strength to go around doing whatever you like....

If normal Sakura had Dark Sakura's self-regeneration abilities, Zouken would likely have been dead long ago.
Forget her powers, I just want to keep the personality. I find Dark Sakura quite awesome, really. It's one of those evil personalities that you know is twisted and nasty, so you shouldn't really like her, but I absolutely adore her. I wonder if something's wrong with me.
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Old 2010-08-28, 13:15   Link #2823
Moczo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiantBeam View Post
Forget her powers, I just want to keep the personality. I find Dark Sakura quite awesome, really. It's one of those evil personalities that you know is twisted and nasty, so you shouldn't really like her, but I absolutely adore her. I wonder if something's wrong with me.
Hey, villains get all the best outfits, all the coolest powers, and all the best lines. Nothing wrong with thinking she's cool, she is pretty cool. Particularly since most of her victims are the most hateable people in the game.
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Old 2010-08-28, 13:25   Link #2824
Cherry_Lover
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Originally Posted by RadiantBeam View Post
Forget her powers, I just want to keep the personality. I find Dark Sakura quite awesome, really. It's one of those evil personalities that you know is twisted and nasty, so you shouldn't really like her, but I absolutely adore her. I wonder if something's wrong with me.
Well, I don't agree at all. She's just a horribly tortured girl throwing a cosmic temper tantrum. It's not awesome in any way. Normal Sakura with those powers, on the other hand, would just be wonderful to see.
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Old 2010-08-28, 13:38   Link #2825
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I think a big part of Dark Sakura's appeal is that she is proactive. Sakura spends most of Heaven's Feel in bed slowly going insane, so it's refreshing to see her get up and start actively affecting the plot. I mean, she was always driving the plot, it's just that she was doing it by virtue of all the people who wanted to save her or use her. It's after she goes Dark that she actually starts really shaking things up on her own accord. It's refreshing to see her take charge of her situation, even if logically you know it's for the worst possible reason.
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Old 2010-08-28, 20:03   Link #2826
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So, after playing through HF more today, I do have a bit of a question. It might count as another one of Nasu's plot holes, but once I thought about it, I really had to bring it up.

Spoiler for Kotomine:
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Old 2010-08-28, 20:06   Link #2827
mAc Chaos
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Given what we know about him in Fate/Zero, the way he just doesn't care about his own life or anything really, I think he pretty much just went "LOL screw it, too much effort," and let himself get stabbed just to see what dying was like or something.
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Old 2010-08-28, 20:18   Link #2828
Cherry_Lover
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Yeah, firstly he has nothing much to live for, and if he does die there is little point in him taking Shirou down with him. But, yeah, it is a little bit of a plot-hole. I guess he just got a little cocky, like Gil did....
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Old 2010-08-28, 20:31   Link #2829
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I couldn't believe he was there after Sakura was dealt with. Shirou just couldn't catch a break man.

But I think that the piece of the old grail (or whatever saved him from True Assassin's NF) inside of him, which was activated in HF, gave him more strength.
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Old 2010-08-28, 20:32   Link #2830
mAc Chaos
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Wait, didn't he take out Rin's knife at the last second? I think that's what he didn't expect. He probably was like, "Eh, I'll let him run here as much as he wants, he's dead anyway," and then got surprised when Shirou knifed him. Also he seemed amused it was his fault for giving Rin the blade.

I love Kotomine! He never dies.

But I don't think his strength was from the Grail. I mean in Fate/Zero he rips a huge thick tree right off the ground using just his legs.
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Old 2010-08-28, 20:42   Link #2831
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It was always implied that Kotomine was never truly human from birth. Then again, this was mainly because he took joy out of the suffering of others, so I don't know if that was enough to classify him as "inhuman" even if it was unusual.
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Old 2010-08-28, 21:07   Link #2832
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It was always implied that Kotomine was never truly human from birth. Then again, this was mainly because he took joy out of the suffering of others, so I don't know if that was enough to classify him as "inhuman" even if it was unusual.
Sociopathy of that sort would still be within the psychological baseline not only for humans but also for cetaceans like Orcas or dolphins for that matter, who have been shown to actively inflict all sorts of nasty crap on other sea organisms just for kicks. It doesn't mean a person can't be a constructive social being but it requires a different approach to do so.
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Old 2010-08-28, 21:44   Link #2833
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His enhanced strength is really just because he was an exorcist for the church. I don't think he rose as high as the Burial Agency, but he was still specially trained to kill vampires and demons. That's the sort of career where you either come out of it a badass of the first caliber, or you don't come out of it, and as a result the level of training required to get into it is just absurd. And of course, he does have a certain amount of training and talent as a Magus on top of it, so just because it's never explicitly stated he's using his magical energy to enhance his physical attributes somewhat doesn't mean he isn't. It would make sense.

Which, yes, makes the end of Fate sort of a plothole, because there is no way a half-trained teen should have been able to beat him in melee combat, even with the element of surprise. Not the worst plothole in in the game, granted, but...
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Old 2010-08-28, 21:53   Link #2834
DragoZERO
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He isn't half-trained...he is using Archer's knowledge and experience.
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Old 2010-08-28, 21:57   Link #2835
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The end of Fate, not Heaven's Feel. When he's operating on a few weeks of sparring with Saber and a knife, yet manages to beat Kirei one-on-one. In HF it's more believable; they're both on the verge of death, and Shirou's got some added advantages to even out the difference in physical abilities.
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Old 2010-08-28, 22:12   Link #2836
GDB
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The end of Fate, not Heaven's Feel. When he's operating on a few weeks of sparring with Saber and a knife, yet manages to beat Kirei one-on-one.
I don't think Saber even started training him until the second week. Though he still had some minor training from Kiritsugu.
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Old 2010-08-28, 23:28   Link #2837
Endscape
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Lol at Kiritsugu's training.That's one of the weirdest things to me. Half the time it seems like Kiritsugu was deliberately half-assing it, yet other times, some of the stuff Shirou spouts seems like Kiritsugu did a decent job on theory. IIRC, even Rin said Shirou' knowledge was surprising
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Old 2010-08-29, 00:02   Link #2838
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Kiritsugu didn't want to pass anything relating to killing onto his son, he did enough killing for both of their lives... ironically, it didn't really matter in the end.
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Old 2010-08-29, 10:09   Link #2839
DragoZERO
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The end of Fate, not Heaven's Feel. When he's operating on a few weeks of sparring with Saber and a knife, yet manages to beat Kirei one-on-one. In HF it's more believable; they're both on the verge of death, and Shirou's got some added advantages to even out the difference in physical abilities.
I thought we were talking about HF. In Fate he didn't really do anything, if I remember correctly. Plus Shirou used the sheath.
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Old 2010-08-29, 17:28   Link #2840
Reckoner
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Honestly, Kotomine made HF for me. He was half the reason I found it so awesome, and he was a well deserved final boss.
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