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Old 2010-10-07, 07:14   Link #3101
DragoZERO
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Damnit....I need to read Fate/Zero.
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Old 2010-10-07, 09:08   Link #3102
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Originally Posted by Altima of the Gates View Post
Spoiler for MoS Possible end:
Like father, like daughter?
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Old 2010-10-07, 09:17   Link #3103
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
We know she is doing it out of duty and a sense of obligation.
Exactly. She has no interest in the Grail, she just feels that she has to win it because her father said she had to.

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I think it's one reason she was able to work with Shirou so well - neither had a true wish in mind...at least in the beginning.
Well, Rin just wanted to win the Grail, and Shirou just wanted to stop people being harmed. Those two aims were never contradictory, so they could work together easily.

Spoiler:
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Old 2010-10-07, 17:46   Link #3104
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Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover View Post
Exactly. She has no interest in the Grail, she just feels that she has to win it because her father said she had to.



Well, Rin just wanted to win the Grail, and Shirou just wanted to stop people being harmed. Those two aims were never contradictory, so they could work together easily.

Spoiler:
It would be a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' circumstance, for in the end the burden would still eat away at her mind. Rin doesn't have the level of ruthlessness that someone like Tohno Akiha would have in that situation.
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Old 2010-10-07, 18:51   Link #3105
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It would be a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' circumstance, for in the end the burden would still eat away at her mind. Rin doesn't have the level of ruthlessness that someone like Tohno Akiha would have in that situation.
Quite possibly, yes. But, she's still going to feel far worse if all her sacrifices turn out to have been for nothing. She's not supposed to care about Sakura at all, she sees it as betraying her father's wishes to even talk to her. In killing Sakura, she has given in totally to her father's ideal, and therefore must obtain the Grail. If she fails, then she has failed her father and she has failed her sister, which will send her mad.
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Old 2010-10-07, 21:19   Link #3106
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Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover View Post
Quite possibly, yes. But, she's still going to feel far worse if all her sacrifices turn out to have been for nothing. She's not supposed to care about Sakura at all, she sees it as betraying her father's wishes to even talk to her. In killing Sakura, she has given in totally to her father's ideal, and therefore must obtain the Grail. If she fails, then she has failed her father and she has failed her sister, which will send her mad.
It's only a matter of how fast the madness sets in, particularly since the Grail is corrupted any such 'win' would ultimately be meaningless in the end. I believe F/HA would better clarify the Angra Mainyu angle once the translation's completed.
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Old 2010-10-07, 21:23   Link #3107
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Originally Posted by aldw View Post
It's only a matter of how fast the madness sets in, particularly since the Grail is corrupted any such 'win' would ultimately be meaningless in the end. I believe F/HA would better clarify the Angra Mainyu angle once the translation's completed.
Spoiler for HF:
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Old 2010-10-07, 21:29   Link #3108
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Spoiler for HF:
This is why Shirou's approach, like Suiseiseki in Rozen Maiden (or the infamous Captain Kirk), would ultimately be the right action because instead of playing a rigged game they decide to change things completely.

Spoiler for AM:
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Old 2010-10-07, 21:37   Link #3109
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Originally Posted by aldw View Post
This is why Shirou's approach, like Suiseiseki in Rozen Maiden (or the infamous Captain Kirk), would ultimately be the right action because instead of playing a rigged game they decide to change things completely.

Spoiler for AM:
Spoiler for MoS:
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Old 2010-10-08, 09:53   Link #3110
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Spoiler for MoS:
Spoiler for MoS:
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Old 2010-10-20, 04:48   Link #3111
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hey can someone tell me how they replaced the H scenes in the non-H version of FSN? instead of doing it, what did they do?
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Old 2010-10-20, 04:56   Link #3112
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Prana transfer.
Let's see:
In Fate - CG Dragon aka. Magic Circuit transfer. Same as the anime
In UBW - creating a Ley Line without the H-stuff. Often called CG Fish
In HF - Sakura sucking blood with the weak explanation the worms being hungry of blood and making Sakura want it. It mellows down Sakura's background of abuse(no mention of rape) and so the fans don't like it.
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Old 2010-10-20, 07:04   Link #3113
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Originally Posted by willyvereb View Post
In HF - Sakura sucking blood with the weak explanation the worms being hungry of blood and making Sakura want it. It mellows down Sakura's background of abuse(no mention of rape) and so the fans don't like it.
I like the idea of worms making you horny far less so it works for me...
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Old 2010-10-20, 07:09   Link #3114
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Originally Posted by willyvereb View Post
Prana transfer.
Let's see:
In Fate - CG Dragon aka. Magic Circuit transfer. Same as the anime
In UBW - creating a Ley Line without the H-stuff. Often called CG Fish
In HF - Sakura sucking blood with the weak explanation the worms being hungry of blood and making Sakura want it. It mellows down Sakura's background of abuse(no mention of rape) and so the fans don't like it.
The dragon and fish were in the PS2 game as well?

And there is a patch out that makes it all the same as the PS2 game.

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I like the idea of worms making you horny far less so it works for me...
Agreed. There were quite a few things in HF that didn't sit well with me. So much rage.
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Old 2010-10-20, 14:47   Link #3115
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I like the idea of worms making you horny far less so it works for me...
The thing is, that at least makes some form of logical sense. Sakura needing to suck blood doesn't, and further the sex scenes in HF are actually important for her character development. Sucking Shirou's blood simply doesn't have the same intimacy level that having sex with him does, and I can't imagine him going "I'm not too tired to have Sakura suck my blood", so she doesn't gain the boost in confidence that comes from recognising that Shirou actually wants her. Further, with the rape removed, there is no longer any good reason for her to kill Shinji (from her viewpoint), because she would never do such a thing solely to protect herself, no matter what he did to her (she'd probably have happily let him beat her to death rather than killing him herself, especially since she went there to confront Zouken and (likely) die and, further, she would lack the sense of self-worth that comes from Shirou actually wanting her).

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And there is a patch out that makes it all the same as the PS2 game.
Not yet. There is a patch which adds the RN CGs, but it doesn't add the RN alternate sex scenes.
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Old 2010-10-20, 15:09   Link #3116
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Not yet. There is a patch which adds the RN CGs, but it doesn't add the RN alternate sex scenes.
Hmm...they are still working on it it seems. Everyone bookmark it: http://rnpatch.blogspot.com. Although, the only reason to use that patch is for curiosity since they everything is best in it's original form - the way it was meant to be presented.
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Old 2010-10-20, 15:32   Link #3117
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Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover View Post
The thing is, that at least makes some form of logical sense. Sakura needing to suck blood doesn't, and further the sex scenes in HF are actually important for her character development. Sucking Shirou's blood simply doesn't have the same intimacy level that having sex with him does, and I can't imagine him going "I'm not too tired to have Sakura suck my blood", so she doesn't gain the boost in confidence that comes from recognising that Shirou actually wants her. Further, with the rape removed, there is no longer any good reason for her to kill Shinji (from her viewpoint), because she would never do such a thing solely to protect herself, no matter what he did to her (she'd probably have happily let him beat her to death rather than killing him herself, especially since she went there to confront Zouken and (likely) die and, further, she would lack the sense of self-worth that comes from Shirou actually wanting her).
Actually I can see Shirou letting Sakura suck her blood as having some sort of intimacy that would give her a confidence boost. As for her reason to kill Shinji...well I dunno about that. The way I saw it, the real reason she killed Shinji was because of a stray evil thought that just happened to have popped up in her head because of her dilemna. They could've easily just made it happen spontaneously instead. That would've worked just as well for me. What was the reason in the censored game?

Anyway I'm not against the sex per se. I'm against the worms making her horny. Shirou could've simply had sex with Sakura to comfort her. Shinji could've simply raped Sakura because he's an asshole (which was half the reason anyway).
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Old 2010-10-20, 17:36   Link #3118
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Actually I can see Shirou letting Sakura suck her blood as having some sort of intimacy that would give her a confidence boost.
Not really, because if some random person off the street needed to suck his blood to survive, he would let them do it too. Hell, Sakura's confidence is so low that she doesn't even recognise that Shirou genuinely wants to have sex with her (as opposed to just doing it because it's the only way she can get prana and, thus, not hurt people) until the third time around. Without her realising that he is doing it because he actually wants her as opposed to out of a sense of duty, she does not gain the confidence necessary to stand up to Shinji, and thus the Shinji death scene does not happen.

Quote:
As for her reason to kill Shinji...well I dunno about that. The way I saw it, the real reason she killed Shinji was because of a stray evil thought that just happened to have popped up in her head because of her dilemna. They could've easily just made it happen spontaneously instead. That would've worked just as well for me.
Except that that destroys the whole point of the scene, and is OOC for Sakura. For a start, I would say that thinking "I wish he were dead" when someone is raping you (or beating you to within an inch of your life and posssibly intending to kill you) is not actually an evil thought at all. It is a perfectly natural thought to have, and one that most ordinary people would (quite justifiably) possess in such a scenario, so it says nothing much about her mental state.

However, it is not a thought that Sakura would ever actually have, because she genuinely does not care about herself (at least not enough to kill Shinji in self-defense). The whole of the Shinji death scene in the PC version was about Shirou. She refused Shinji raping her because she was in a relationship with Shirou and she killed Shinji because she was worried that otherwise Shirou would do so when Shinji came to tell him about what he'd done to Sakura in the past. If Shinji is beating the shit out of her, as in RN, then that is no different from what has happened hundreds of times before and there is no reason to stand up for herself. She's used to it, so she would just lie there and take the beating.

Quote:
What was the reason in the censored game?
I'm not sure, but probably what you said (just a "stray evil thought").

Quote:
Anyway I'm not against the sex per se. I'm against the worms making her horny.
Well, it's not nice, no, but then nothing about Sakura's situation is nice. The worms live off her prana, and since having sex provides prana (and since they are lust worms), it makes sense that they enhance her sex drive.

Quote:
Shirou could've simply had sex with Sakura to comfort her.
Well, in general, the correct response to "oh, shit, I just found out the girl I love has been raped and sexually tortured from the age of four" is not, in fact "oh, I know, in order to comfort her, I'll have sex with her", so Shirou would not come on to her in such a situation. She clearly has to initiate it, and without the excuse of needing prana due to the worms she would not have the confidence to do so.

Quote:
Shinji could've simply raped Sakura because he's an asshole (which was half the reason anyway).
Honestly, I'm pretty sure that was the whole reason. Whilst the worms do increase her sexual desire, I don't think she is actually unable to survive without sex (she is fine post-Fate and post-UBW, for instance), and I can't imagine that Sakura would have wanted Shinji to rape her.
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Old 2010-10-20, 18:04   Link #3119
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Honestly, I'm pretty sure that was the whole reason. Whilst the worms do increase her sexual desire, I don't think she is actually unable to survive without sex (she is fine post-Fate and post-UBW, for instance), and I can't imagine that Sakura would have wanted Shinji to rape her.
She would masturbate to alleviate any sexual stress. Shinji may have been told to do it for that reason, but it all just came down to keeping him under control and stuff.

And I don't think you can want to be raped...then it isn't rape, right?
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Old 2010-10-20, 18:10   Link #3120
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
And I don't think you can want to be raped...then it isn't rape, right?
Well, you can always participate in a rape fantasy if both partners are comfortable and trust each other, which could fall under "wanting to be raped" even though technically, it wouldn't be rape.
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