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Old 2010-12-22, 09:33   Link #3361
DragoZERO
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Originally Posted by Moczo View Post
The VN scene is a lot more ambiguous, but Saber does do something. It's not made clear what, but Shirou definitely says that 'like with Berserker, Saber used something I made to defeat the enemy', or something to that effect. So maybe Shirou projected Avalon, and Saber was able to partially activate it? Not enough to give the full protection, but enough to make a barrier to push back Gil's attack or something.
Curses! I hate the holidays. I have less free time. I would go check the scene again otherwise.

I need a new job. Better yet, I need to win the lotto and retire. Yes, the lotto. People ask me what would I do with all my free time. I tell them "I'd find something to do, trust me" since I can't say I'd watch anime, read manga, and play visual novels.
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Old 2010-12-22, 09:35   Link #3362
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
Curses! I hate the holidays. I have less free time. I would go check the scene again otherwise.

I need a new job. Better yet, I need to win the lotto and retire. Yes, the lotto. People ask me what would I do with all my free time. I tell them "I'd find something to do, trust me" since I can't say I'd watch anime, read manga, and play visual novels.

Well, when I go home for lunch, I can try to find the scene if I have time. If I do, I'll post the exact text. Unless somebody with game access right now beats me to it.

And of course you can say that. When you're rich you can say whatever you want. Things that would get a normal person called a 'freak' just get a rich person called 'eccentric'.
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Old 2010-12-22, 10:06   Link #3363
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
Didn't Saber put Excalibur in Avalon? Did she do that in the VN? Maybe that's where the difference lies. But if that's the case, my problem comes with how Saber is able to do that all of a sudden after being almost annihilated by Ea.
She did, yes, but I'm not entirely sure how that would help....
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Old 2010-12-22, 10:39   Link #3364
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
Curses! I hate the holidays. I have less free time. I would go check the scene again otherwise.

I need a new job. Better yet, I need to win the lotto and retire. Yes, the lotto. People ask me what would I do with all my free time. I tell them "I'd find something to do, trust me" since I can't say I'd watch anime, read manga, and play visual novels.
I just checked it myself, and it's true; the VN is very vague about what exactly Saber does to take Gilgamesh down the way she does. All the VN says is there's a flash of light and a roar, and then we see Gilgamesh all messed up; we never see what exactly Saber does once the sheath appears.
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Old 2010-12-22, 11:29   Link #3365
Tenchi Hou Take
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I just checked it myself, and it's true; the VN is very vague about what exactly Saber does to take Gilgamesh down the way she does. All the VN says is there's a flash of light and a roar, and then we see Gilgamesh all messed up; we never see what exactly Saber does once the sheath appears.
Doesn't she just slash gilgamesh with excalibur melee. I'm pretty sure I saw a CG of that although I may have mixed it up with the anime.
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Old 2010-12-22, 11:38   Link #3366
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Doesn't she just slash gilgamesh with excalibur melee. I'm pretty sure I saw a CG of that although I may have mixed it up with the anime.
If I remember right, she slashes Gil at the end of the Fate route, during the fight with Kotomine. To my memory, there was no slashing involved in the park fight, at least no successful slashing aimed at Gil.
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Old 2010-12-22, 11:43   Link #3367
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Originally Posted by RadiantBeam View Post
If I remember right, she slashes Gil at the end of the Fate route, during the fight with Kotomine. To my memory, there was no slashing involved in the park fight, at least no successful slashing aimed at Gil.
This sounds right to me. The way the park fight is described sounds more like an explosion than anything else, and Gil doesn't have any slashes on his armor during his 'wounded' appearance there, he looks like he was too close to a bomb that went off. The CG of him getting slashed was from the end of the route when she kills him.
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Old 2010-12-22, 12:14   Link #3368
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Curses, Nasu! It's so nice that he is as vague as he can be.

Well, it was an awesome scene nonetheless.
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Old 2010-12-23, 16:04   Link #3369
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by RadiantBeam View Post
If I remember right, she slashes Gil at the end of the Fate route, during the fight with Kotomine. To my memory, there was no slashing involved in the park fight, at least no successful slashing aimed at Gil.
Yup she simply blocked and Gil walked away. Thought they were talking about the final fight hence why I said that.
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Old 2010-12-26, 14:19   Link #3370
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I debated if I should ask this here or in the FAQ, but it's somewhat related to the game, so here goes: do we have any idea how Kotomine and Rin interact, well... normally, for lack of a better word? In the game they're mostly snarky towards each other, and UBW he outright tries to kill her, but I have a scene in chapter 4 of Rain where the two interact (possibly... I'm honestly considering cutting it), but I have no clue how they'd interact when Rin is honestly seeking him out for advice.
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Old 2010-12-26, 14:42   Link #3371
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I can't see Rin wanting advice from Kotomine unless she really really has to, but if she did I'd guess she'd do so grudgingly and be skeptical. In turn, Kotomine would be as insufferable as he usually is.
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Old 2010-12-26, 15:09   Link #3372
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Originally Posted by RadiantBeam View Post
I debated if I should ask this here or in the FAQ, but it's somewhat related to the game, so here goes: do we have any idea how Kotomine and Rin interact, well... normally, for lack of a better word? In the game they're mostly snarky towards each other, and UBW he outright tries to kill her, but I have a scene in chapter 4 of Rain where the two interact (possibly... I'm honestly considering cutting it), but I have no clue how they'd interact when Rin is honestly seeking him out for advice.
I believe they're actually pretty close. Being snarky towards each other is just Rin's way of communicating with him, even though she trusts him. Kirei finds it humorous, so it all works out, until he tries to kill her of course.

Anyway since hes basically been her guardian since she was a child I don't find it very odd that she'd come to him for some advice.
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Old 2010-12-26, 15:25   Link #3373
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They were close? And here I thought Rin had the same uneasy feeling around Kotomine that Shirou did.
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Old 2010-12-26, 15:34   Link #3374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiantBeam View Post
I debated if I should ask this here or in the FAQ, but it's somewhat related to the game, so here goes: do we have any idea how Kotomine and Rin interact, well... normally, for lack of a better word? In the game they're mostly snarky towards each other, and UBW he outright tries to kill her, but I have a scene in chapter 4 of Rain where the two interact (possibly... I'm honestly considering cutting it), but I have no clue how they'd interact when Rin is honestly seeking him out for advice.
Hmmmmm.

Well, I mean, looking back, they only have a few scenes together. But from just this interaction one gets the impression that she respects Kotomine, and she definitely knows he's competent, but she doesn't like him. So honestly? I know we've talked about this before, but the more I think about the more I begin to think that cutting the sequence might be a good idea. She is aware he's a fairly twisted person, even if she doesn't really comprehend how twisted. She'd be willing to ask for advice related to the War, since he's the overseer and she respects his abilities as a Magus and an intelligent person, but she probably wouldn't ask him for advice on her personal life since she knows he would just screw with her head.
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Old 2010-12-26, 16:00   Link #3375
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Exactly, even when she was a child she was wary of him, but she knows magi aren't the best people, so she keeps it professional. The thing was, is that Kotomine is her father's apprentice, so she doesn't have any idea that he is an evil loving bastard, and doesn't conceive an apprentice betraying their master like that. Rin is very intelligent, but she has some of the same "expectations" of people in the magi world as her father did. You see this in many of her other interactions. Her fury with Shirou about his father not making magic a central figure in Shirou's life, but more of a hobby. Her dealings with Sakura in some cases, and the list goes on.

So Kotomine and her have a professional relationship, but she seems him as her father's annoying apprentice.
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Old 2010-12-26, 17:35   Link #3376
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Seem to be undermining her tsundere tendencies. She talks big about him, but its constantly shown that she trust him, quite a bit actually. Otherwise she wouldn't have been so surprised to find out Kirei murdered her father, and she wouldn't have been beaten so easily in Fate. She was nearly killed because she trusted him. There's a lot of naivety in Rin despite what she says...

Her interactions with him seem to match how she acted around him when she was younger. Which is, snarky, but that doesn't necessarily mean they have a bad relationship. In Fate/Zero though she tried to make it clear she disliked him, it seemed more playful than spiteful. Despite what she says, she seems to have a good opinion of Kirei overall, even if she knows he's not quite right.

And again, he was her guardian for 10 years. That's a lot of time for someone Rin's age.
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Old 2010-12-26, 17:57   Link #3377
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Originally Posted by LostHanyou View Post
Seem to be undermining her tsundere tendencies. She talks big about him, but its constantly shown that she trust him, quite a bit actually. Otherwise she wouldn't have been so surprised to find out Kirei murdered her father, and she wouldn't have been beaten so easily in Fate. She was nearly killed because she trusted him. There's a lot of naivety in Rin despite what she says...

Her interactions with him seem to match how she acted around him when she was younger. Which is, snarky, but that doesn't necessarily mean they have a bad relationship. In Fate/Zero though she tried to make it clear she disliked him, it seemed more playful than spiteful. Despite what she says, she seems to have a good opinion of Kirei overall, even if she knows he's not quite right.

And again, he was her guardian for 10 years. That's a lot of time for someone Rin's age.
Heh. You should see the Unlimited Codes mid boss convo from Kotomine's storyline they had. But I agree with you mostly. She does confide in him at least. Otherwise she wouldn't have swallowed quite so much of his conversation in the church on day 9 in HF. She is a tad more naive then she lets on, and like I said, has "expectations" of magi being more honorable than they really are.
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Old 2010-12-26, 21:11   Link #3378
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Well, what I'm trying to figure out is if Rin would confide in Kotomine personally for anything if she was deeply bothered enough by it, or if she largely keeps their interaction professional and otherwise prefers to keep her personal issues to herself.
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Old 2010-12-26, 21:56   Link #3379
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Well, what I'm trying to figure out is if Rin would confide in Kotomine personally for anything if she was deeply bothered enough by it, or if she largely keeps their interaction professional and otherwise prefers to keep her personal issues to herself.
I don't really know actually :/

But I would like to point out, if she really needed to confide in someone that much, who else but Kirei would be viable? In such a situation, it would only make sense for her to pick him over anyone else. Of course, Rin probably wouldn't normally confide in anyone under normal circumstances, so...

I should go read the rest of your fic now.
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Old 2010-12-27, 11:10   Link #3380
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Originally Posted by RadiantBeam View Post
I debated if I should ask this here or in the FAQ, but it's somewhat related to the game, so here goes: do we have any idea how Kotomine and Rin interact, well... normally, for lack of a better word? In the game they're mostly snarky towards each other, and UBW he outright tries to kill her, but I have a scene in chapter 4 of Rain where the two interact (possibly... I'm honestly considering cutting it), but I have no clue how they'd interact when Rin is honestly seeking him out for advice.
Well, I would assume that Kotomine would play the "helpful mentor" role, but in a way that is as snarky, unhelpful and downright depressing as possible. Most likely, he'd treat her similarly to how he treats Shirou when he goes to Kotomine for advice (Kotomine has nothing against Rin, she's just another person for him to troll). As for Rin, she hates Kotomine, and when Kotomine rings her up at the start of the war (to tell her to summon her servant), she just wants him to get lost, so I'd imagine she would be highly distrustful of him and as blunt and rude as possible given the situation.

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I believe they're actually pretty close. Being snarky towards each other is just Rin's way of communicating with him, even though she trusts him. Kirei finds it humorous, so it all works out, until he tries to kill her of course.

Anyway since hes basically been her guardian since she was a child I don't find it very odd that she'd come to him for some advice.
No, Rin doesn't trust Kotomine one bit. Even in Zero she can't stand him, as a five-year-old. Nevertheless, he is still her "mentor" and (I think) legal guardian, so I assume that they are at least somewhat professional towards each other, even if he is just trolling her and she is barely hiding her contempt.

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She'd be willing to ask for advice related to the War, since he's the overseer and she respects his abilities as a Magus and an intelligent person, but she probably wouldn't ask him for advice on her personal life since she knows he would just screw with her head.
Yeah, this. She doesn't like asking him for advice or talking to him in general, and she's smart enough to know that if she tries asking him for personal advice she's just going to get trolled.

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Seem to be undermining her tsundere tendencies. She talks big about him, but its constantly shown that she trust him, quite a bit actually. Otherwise she wouldn't have been so surprised to find out Kirei murdered her father, and she wouldn't have been beaten so easily in Fate. She was nearly killed because she trusted him. There's a lot of naivety in Rin despite what she says...

Her interactions with him seem to match how she acted around him when she was younger. Which is, snarky, but that doesn't necessarily mean they have a bad relationship. In Fate/Zero though she tried to make it clear she disliked him, it seemed more playful than spiteful. Despite what she says, she seems to have a good opinion of Kirei overall, even if she knows he's not quite right.

And again, he was her guardian for 10 years. That's a lot of time for someone Rin's age.
Well, the thing is, there's a bit of a difference between not really liking someone and accepting that they're willing to murder their tutor and, eventually, her daughter too. Even if Rin doesn't like Kotomine, that doesn't mean that she knows that he would go so far as to kill the girl who he has basically raised from the age of five....

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Well, what I'm trying to figure out is if Rin would confide in Kotomine personally for anything if she was deeply bothered enough by it, or if she largely keeps their interaction professional and otherwise prefers to keep her personal issues to herself.
Nah, I can't see it. She doesn't trust or like him enough to have personal discussions with him, the way she treats him in the game makes it quite clear that she would prefer to keep her interactions with him to a minimum, even if she doesn't know just how far his untrustworthyness goes.
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