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Old 2011-10-09, 03:58   Link #3821
Haak
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I'm going to put my debate with Cherry Lover under spoiler tags. Anyone who doesn't wish to see or has a problem with it for whatever strange reason, doesn't have to look anymore. And in the future, if anyone wants to give me a neg rep then please make sure you state a reason, otherwise I won't know what it is I'm doing wrong.

Spoiler for space:
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Last edited by Haak; 2011-10-09 at 10:37.
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Old 2011-10-09, 08:59   Link #3822
Jaden
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Magi are inhumane in many ways. The lives of their ancestors ride in their magic crests, that ambition and pride is their highest priority. Rin lost her guidance quite early and had a good environment, so she grew up to be more normal. But even normal people don't love their relatives unconditionally. Rin and Sakura had hardly spoken for like ten years.

In HF they bump into each other in the war and open their hearts to one another, then regain their relationship. In the other stories they don't, and continue to be distant. I don't think there is anything strange with that. Certainly HF is the happier ending to the main human characters, but I don't find the other endings to be unreasonable or out of character.
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Old 2011-10-09, 12:39   Link #3823
Cherry_Lover
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Spoiler:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaden View Post
Magi are inhumane in many ways. The lives of their ancestors ride in their magic crests, that ambition and pride is their highest priority.
Magi are, by and large, total assholes. Rin and Sakura are not, because they're fundamentally decent people, but if Rin decides to go down that "asshole" route then honestly I don't want her to have a "happy ending", especially not at Sakura's expense.

Quote:
Rin lost her guidance quite early and had a good environment, so she grew up to be more normal.
Erm, what?

Since when did Rin have a "good environment"?

Quote:
But even normal people don't love their relatives unconditionally. Rin and Sakura had hardly spoken for like ten years.
Which is Rin's fucking fault, along with her idiot father. Sakura couldn't seek her out, because Zouken explicitly forbade it, but there's no reason Rin could not other than caring more about some fucking 400-year-old pact that they'd already broken anyway.

Quote:
In HF they bump into each other in the war and open their hearts to one another, then regain their relationship. In the other stories they don't, and continue to be distant. I don't think there is anything strange with that. Certainly HF is the happier ending to the main human characters, but I don't find the other endings to be unreasonable or out of character.
Because they clearly still care about each other. The way Rin acts towards Sakura in Fate and UBW makes that quite clear. In the short-term, she may not overcome her father's idiocy enough to actually reconcile with her sister, but I don't see Rin just forgetting about her entirely.
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Old 2011-10-09, 13:26   Link #3824
Haak
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Spoiler for space:
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Last edited by Haak; 2011-10-09 at 14:15.
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Old 2011-10-13, 04:02   Link #3825
Reckoner
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Mandatory F/S N fagging for this song. I might even like it more than Emiya.



I'm kind of skeptical of Kaijura's abilities to bring anything like this to the table in her OST for fate/zero.

Last edited by Reckoner; 2011-10-18 at 01:17.
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Old 2011-10-13, 10:33   Link #3826
LostHanyou
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Hikari to Yami is the real badass fight theme of the series. But really, the FSN ost had some amazing soundtrack. Not expecting f/z to be as memorable, honestly.
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Old 2011-10-13, 10:51   Link #3827
DragoZERO
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Originally Posted by LostHanyou View Post
^
Hikari to Yami is the real badass fight theme of the series. But really, the FSN ost had some amazing soundtrack. Not expecting f/z to be as memorable, honestly.
It really did. Somehow the composer went under the radar. I think it's Haga Keita, right??
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Old 2011-10-13, 12:06   Link #3828
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
It really did. Somehow the composer went under the radar. I think it's Haga Keita, right??
Yeah, it's Haga Keita. Don't know anything else he did. Of course his music in F/SN was memorable (though I'm not really that fond of the song you posted above somehow) but since we're dealing with a totally different medium and a totally different style here I doubt we can expect anything in that direction. But we should give the anime-music time and scenes to prove itself, since we often remember the best soundtracks with the best scenes along them (make the good scenes the soundtrack good? Or the good soundtrack the scenes? Or both? Or whatever? XDDD). But I think there is a high probability Kajiura won't do an Emiya remix, I don'
t remember her doing something like this before though it could be possible here since a lot of fans would request it and there was a scene it went along really well in the Sound Drama.

Sorry for this lengthy answer, if you wish to discuss this issue further let's move to the OST thread.
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Old 2011-10-13, 19:09   Link #3829
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So, can someone explain the Lesser and Greater Grastils? I've looked at the wiki but I'm still lost about it.
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Old 2011-10-14, 00:55   Link #3830
TwilightsCall
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From what I understand from reading the original VN...

The Greater Grail is the actual main source of the Grail wars. It collects mana from the surrounding area over time in order to facilitate the grail war, a process that generally takes 60 years to complete. The primary function of the Great Grail and the purpose for the grail wars in the first place is to open a pathway to the Root. If I recall correctly, the Great Grail is also what summons the servants and selects the masters. In essence, almost everything in the war is done by the great grail.

The Lesser Grail is created seperately for each war. When they speak of the 'vessel' for the grail, they generally are speaking of the Lesser Grail, ie Illya in the fifth war and so on. The purpose of the Lesser Grail is to collect the spirits of the fallen Servants and hold them until the end of the grail war. Once it has collected 6 Servants (or possibly just enough energy) and once enough time passes, the Lesser Grail activates to open a pathway to the Greater Grail in order to provide the mana to grant the prize to the winner.

Since the Greater Grail was corrupted, whenever the Lesser Grail opened the pathway to the Greater Grail it would start pouring out the corrupted energy (which materialized as the black mud). In most routes and in Fate Zero, the heroes attempt to solve the problem by destroying the Lesser Grail, which while closing the connection to the Great Grail, doesn't really solve the problem of the corruption.

In Heaven's Feel Illya closes the gate to the Great Grail which stops the corruption from leaking out as well. The Cavern then caves in due to the battle overtop of it at the end of the story destroying the Greater Grail. Whether the cave-in was augmented by Kiritsugu's efforts, I suppose we'll have to ask Nasu :x


Also keep in mind I'm recalling all this purely from memory, so I could be wrong on some of the finer details :x

Last edited by TwilightsCall; 2011-10-16 at 19:34. Reason: for derping up Route and Root >.<
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Old 2011-10-15, 10:45   Link #3831
cecil
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Wow... just wow.
I cant believe you guys delete alumnox post. Well since the mod says we ask that in the don't know what other thread can you please please alumnox reupload the information. I asked his insight in the matter because I couldn't understood the DAMN WIKI and to this point its the best one answering but hey... who cares right ?
Thanks for "answering" my question about the church but its pretty much what I already read . How exactly they don't care for something that one way or another can destroy the world.
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Old 2011-10-15, 11:21   Link #3832
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So if I'm getting this correct, the Lesser Grail is made separately for each war. And when it's destroyed/purified that closes off the threat of the Greater Grail. So what happens when Waver disables and later dismantels the Greater Grail? Is the curruption released into the world or does it just go away? What exactly happens to it?
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Old 2011-10-15, 11:29   Link #3833
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Originally Posted by cecil View Post
Wow... just wow.
I cant believe you guys delete alumnox post. Well since the mod says we ask that in the don't know what other thread can you please please alumnox reupload the information. I asked his insight in the matter because I couldn't understood the DAMN WIKI and to this point its the best one answering but hey... who cares right ?
Thanks for "answering" my question about the church but its pretty much what I already read . How exactly they don't care for something that one way or another can destroy the world.
Lol no need to jump from a building. Just ask the question where the mod suggested and Ill answer it the best I can.

The church thing is really interesting but I'm afraid I don't have permission to explain things anymore beyond superficial answers so what I can tell you is that for the fateverse page 265 from the complete materials collection. The church although they care for lives is not really in charge of protecting or saving them their job is to protect the souls but not the people or their bodies who are just vessels.

There are very good "dots" connecting the cease of hostilities between the church and the magic association, the Tohsaka family and its embroilment with them, when how and why it was formed, the Assembly of the Eighth Sacrament, the burial agency and a long etc. Look for that information for yourself (sorry) and that pretty much will let you understand why the church works as an arbitrary.
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Originally Posted by .:Jason:. View Post
So if I'm getting this correct, the Lesser Grail is made separately for each war. And when it's destroyed/purified that closes off the threat of the Greater Grail. So what happens when Waver disables and later dismantels the Greater Grail? Is the curruption released into the world or does it just go away? What exactly happens to it?
Avenger comes forth to the fate reality from the swirl of root using energy from the origin to manifest itself (Caren Ortensia's - fate hollow ataraxia and Dead Apostles extra material the section of the corruption of alaya) so you can do whatever you want to the system Avenger will remain in it because of his special class skill as long as its not purified from it or he cast off the skill.

Edit..

Pure speculation: Even when he is nothing else that just disembody energy I think its still a paradox so Alaya will hinder it at some point (what she does in my opinion in hollow ataraxia) to eventually remove him.
Spoiler for IMAGE FROM HA:
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Last edited by alumnox; 2011-10-15 at 12:18.
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Old 2011-10-15, 13:22   Link #3834
Xellos-_^
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Originally Posted by TwilightsCall View Post

The Cavern then caves in due to the battle overtop of it at the end of the story destroying the Greater Grail. Whether the cave-in was augmented by Kiritsugu's efforts, I suppose we'll have to ask Nasu :x

Not quite and Nasu already answer this questions. if you want you can ask in the really really spoiling thread and i can answer it.

spoilers here
Spoiler:
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Last edited by Xellos-_^; 2011-10-15 at 19:07.
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Old 2011-10-16, 07:10   Link #3835
Aqua Knight
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When did Shirou use Rho Aias in HF?
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Old 2011-10-16, 07:18   Link #3836
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He used it in his fight against Saber alter, IIRC.
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Old 2011-10-16, 07:19   Link #3837
Haak
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When did Shirou use Rho Aias in HF?
Against Alter Saber when she was fighting Rider

[edit]

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Old 2011-10-16, 15:51   Link #3838
Altima of the Gates
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .:Jason:. View Post
So if I'm getting this correct, the Lesser Grail is made separately for each war. And when it's destroyed/purified that closes off the threat of the Greater Grail. So what happens when Waver disables and later dismantels the Greater Grail? Is the curruption released into the world or does it just go away? What exactly happens to it?
As long as the gate isn't opened, AM can't come out from the other side. Dismantling the system and destroying the giant magic circle in the cavern under Ryuudo Temple will end his link to this plane for good.

Why it came out through Sakura and why Kotomine was able to use it, was because the Gate to the other side was opened. It can't be purified because it's source is on the other side, so what you need to do is to close the gate (the link to this world) to end the threat or destroy the magic circle either before or after the gate is opened.
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Old 2011-10-16, 20:06   Link #3839
DragoZERO
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He used it in his fight against Saber alter, IIRC.
Which is one of the things that made HF so bad ass. Shirou pulled out everything.

If only Nasu wasn't such a troll and made us kill Saber (of course I tried to save her) then we would have had an excellent canon ending.
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Old 2011-10-16, 20:13   Link #3840
Kuroi Hadou
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
If only Nasu wasn't such a troll and made us kill Saber (of course I tried to save her) then we would have had an excellent canon ending.
If Nasu wasn't such a troll we wouldn't have an HF route at all.
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