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Old 2011-10-16, 20:06   Link #3841
DragoZERO
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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
He used it in his fight against Saber alter, IIRC.
Which is one of the things that made HF so bad ass. Shirou pulled out everything.

If only Nasu wasn't such a troll and made us kill Saber (of course I tried to save her) then we would have had an excellent canon ending.
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Old 2011-10-16, 20:13   Link #3842
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
If only Nasu wasn't such a troll and made us kill Saber (of course I tried to save her) then we would have had an excellent canon ending.
If Nasu wasn't such a troll we wouldn't have an HF route at all.
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Old 2011-10-16, 20:14   Link #3843
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Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou View Post
If Nasu wasn't such a troll we wouldn't have an HF route at all.
Easy man... you'll upset the fanatics.
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Old 2011-10-17, 06:20   Link #3844
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Happy ending?
Go to play Fate / Hollow Ataraxia...
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Old 2011-10-17, 11:44   Link #3845
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
Which is one of the things that made HF so bad ass. Shirou pulled out everything.

If only Nasu wasn't such a troll and made us kill Saber (of course I tried to save her) then we would have had an excellent canon ending.
Technically Shirou pulled Rho Aias in the UBW route as well. He used it against Gilgamesh but used his body to project it instead of his hand.

The only cool things HF has over UBW is Nine Lives Blade Works and that cool trick he did in the sparks liner high bad end.
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Old 2011-10-17, 13:50   Link #3846
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Don't forget about his fist fight with Kotomine.
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Old 2011-10-17, 14:00   Link #3847
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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
Technically Shirou pulled Rho Aias in the UBW route as well. He used it against Gilgamesh but used his body to project it instead of his hand.
Actually that was Archer. Shirou just didn't realise. But he was able to bring out his Reality Marble which he didn't manage to do in HF.
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Old 2011-10-17, 15:02   Link #3848
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There is no way for Shirou to create Rho Aias in UBW (which made the whole deal in UBW movie even more silly in fact) because he -never- witnessed that shield at all, and never could get Archer's experience, unlike in HF.

This points reminds me of how UBW was way too convenient with plot hole regarding Archer's "existence".
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Old 2011-10-17, 16:18   Link #3849
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According to the CM3 (http://completematerial.pbworks.com/...n%20%28arai%29)

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Q: In the end of the Rin route, was it Shirou that projected Rho Aias in the Shirou vs Gilgamesh fight? Or was it Archer? In Fate/side material, it's said that it was projection magic from Archer, but in the story, there was the depiction of Shirou "pulling the shield from the hill". Does this mean that this switched to Archer's scene?
A: This has been easy to misunderstand, but the part about Archer supporting Shirou was the time before Shirou pulled out Rho Aias, before Shirou came to his realization.
After Shirou's monologue about him being surprised that he was still alive after taking Gil's attack, "If I survived, there must have been a reason why I survived. But that was simply something I didn't have any control over."
That was the "Rho Aias" that Archer made to help Shirou in a way that wouldn't let Gilgamesh know there was someone else waiting to ambush him.
Archer used Rho Aias when Gilgamesh used Ea on Shirou.

Shirou used Rho Aias when he was doing the UBW chant. As for how Shirou even knew about Rho Aias, maybe he saw it in Archer's UBW
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Old 2011-10-17, 20:26   Link #3850
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He knew about Rho Aias the same way he knew about his unique UBW chant and how to create his Reality Marble.

What way? You'll have to ask someone else.
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Old 2011-10-18, 03:30   Link #3851
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Originally Posted by .:Jason:. View Post
Zero takes place in the 90s and Stay Night in the early 2000s, right? Do we have exact years for each? Trying to figure it out for fanfic/roleplay purposes and info on what year each takes place in would be extremely helpful.
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Originally Posted by hoarfrost View Post
We don't have set dates, I believe. We just know that FSN takes place in the early 2000's and Zero is exactly 10 years before that.
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Originally Posted by Auria View Post
As far as I remember 1994 (4th war) and 2004 (5th war). But I don't think that was ever officially stated in the works, but Fate/Stay Night was released in 2004 that's why it's considered to occur this year I believe. 1994 also falls into the Clinton Era, but I guess without official confirmation you could always make it +/- a few years.
Maybe someone else stumpled upon exact information on this?
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Originally Posted by lightsenshi View Post
I don't suppose someone could provide information where to find that?
Ill resume as much as possible to the points relevant only for the fateverse and nothing else.

Most of it comes from Tsukihime notes booklets, a little more from complete material and character material and some extra are not canon but fair calculations with information given from other characters, other games or their interaction during a certain time (the not canon ones are marked *****).

Year - Event
CAREFUL THERE ARE SOME SPOILERS FROM FATE ZERO AS WELL AS FSN AND HOLLOW ATARAXIA.
Spoiler for TIME FRAME:
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Last edited by alumnox; 2011-10-18 at 03:48.
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Old 2011-10-19, 11:14   Link #3852
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Easy man... you'll upset the fanatics.
Spoiler for Fate spoiler stuff:
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Old 2011-10-20, 11:26   Link #3853
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I do remember Illya and Rin keeping him in the dark but I don't think I picked up on the other stuff. I think I was so filled with rage that it blinded me a little,
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Old 2011-10-21, 13:04   Link #3854
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
He knew about Rho Aias the same way he knew about his unique UBW chant and how to create his Reality Marble.

What way? You'll have to ask someone else.
He just SAW Rho Aias in front of him (projected by Archer). That alone is already sufficient for him to replicate it afterwards (it's the nature of his magic after all) even before the whole "osmosis of knowledge from Archer" thing going on.


Just to doubly clarify, there were TWO Rho Aias's projected in that scene. The first, unseen by us, was projected by Archer and saved him from Ea (lite). The second is Shirou's own which absorbed the hail of GoB NP's while he casted UBW.
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Old 2011-10-22, 08:47   Link #3855
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Rho Aias is strong enough to withstand Ea ?

I thought only Avalon could
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Old 2011-10-22, 08:58   Link #3856
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallen4life View Post
Rho Aias is strong enough to withstand Ea ?

I thought only Avalon could
Rho Aias is conceptually the shield that will withstand any "arrow." So as long as you don't run up and slash/stab at it it will put up a good fight. Of course, unlike Avalon there appears to be some additional mana requirement (I think I remember Archer having to put more prana into it to sustain it against Gae Bolg). And Rho Aias was able to negate a spear that reverses causality so that it will always hit its target. Ea lite is, in a battle of concepts, no where near that powerful.

But it would totally fold under even a halfway charged Ea, no doubt.
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Old 2011-10-22, 09:10   Link #3857
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ah ok then, nothing wrong with that

I haven't actually played UBW, only saw the movie (yeah, I know ) and in the movie it kinda made sense to me that Gil lost because he was cocky and didn't think about using Ea until it was too late (I assume a full-powered Ea-blast is practically an I-win button and would tear through UBW, Shirou & Archer like knife through butter .. in fact - through everything except Avalon ? only talking Servants), but in the game it seems he used a weaker blast .. why was it weaker btw ? not enough time to fully charge ?
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Old 2011-10-22, 10:02   Link #3858
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ah ok then, nothing wrong with that

I haven't actually played UBW, only saw the movie (yeah, I know ) and in the movie it kinda made sense to me that Gil lost because he was cocky and didn't think about using Ea until it was too late (I assume a full-powered Ea-blast is practically an I-win button and would tear through UBW, Shirou & Archer like knife through butter .. in fact - through everything except Avalon ? only talking Servants), but in the game it seems he used a weaker blast .. why was it weaker btw ? not enough time to fully charge ?
The movie wasn't wrong about that.

It's just that earlier, before Shirou understood his reality marble, Gil got tired of fooling around so much and decided to show Shirou a barely charged Ea to kill him. This was when Archer used Rho Aias to give Shirou one more chance to figure out UBW.

Shirou then taunts Gil to use Ea again which made Gil go "lol no" and use GoB instead. Shirou blocks this while casting UBW with his own Rho Aias and the rest the movie is a good enough explanation for.
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Old 2011-10-22, 11:57   Link #3859
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Originally Posted by alumnox View Post
The church thing is really interesting but I'm afraid I don't have permission to explain things anymore beyond superficial answers so what I can tell you is that for the fateverse page 265 from the complete materials collection. The church although they care for lives is not really in charge of protecting or saving them their job is to protect the souls but not the people or their bodies who are just vessels.
Wait, what? What are you not allowed to answer?

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There are very good "dots" connecting the cease of hostilities between the church and the magic association, the Tohsaka family and its embroilment with them, when how and why it was formed, the Assembly of the Eighth Sacrament, the burial agency and a long etc. Look for that information for yourself (sorry) and that pretty much will let you understand why the church works as an arbitrary.
How the hell is he supposed to look for information for himself when it's in Japanese? That's completely ludicrous.

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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
If only Nasu wasn't such a troll and made us kill Saber (of course I tried to save her) then we would have had an excellent canon ending.
Well, yeah, I think that was kind-of the point. Although, I could have easily seen there being a "HF Good" ending where Saber somehow survived....

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
Easy man... you'll upset the fanatics.
Well, having HF as the last route and then ignoring Sakura's situation in the first two is pretty trollish....

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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
I do remember Illya and Rin keeping him in the dark but I don't think I picked up on the other stuff. I think I was so filled with rage that it blinded me a little,
Well, it was certainly a mess. But, then, Nasu had to make it that way in order that he get a suitably dramatic story. Ilya finding a way to save Sakura and kill Zouken on day 9 wouldn't have made for a particularly interesting route....
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Old 2011-10-22, 22:56   Link #3860
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I just finished the FSN VN. Though I enjoyed the game I don't understand why Sakura's dilemma was completely ignored in the Fate and UBW routes. So does that mean her fate is sealed as Zouken's puppet or worse be consumed by the crest worm inside her? It's kinda sad knowing after completing Saber's and Rin's routes that Sakura has nothing except in her true ending. I agree that HF had some parts that were trollish though it was probably my favorite for being the darkest. I just wish Type-Moon addressed each heroine in each route though more on the main girl of their designated route. It ends up that each route is almost a completely different story but with just the same premise.

I also don't understand the end of the "Last Episode" after completing all routes. Did Saber return or did Shirou go to her? It seems contradicting to ending of Saber's route.
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