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Old 2007-05-13, 07:01   Link #601
iamandragon
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The thing is, it is Shirou himself who said that he cannot trace Ea because he can't identify the material and structure of Ea--Nasu never officially announced that if what Shirou says is true or not. I personally believe that since Shirou is an immature and ignorant magician(ignorant only knowledge wise, of course) he is bound to misunderstand many things in terms of magic.
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Old 2007-05-13, 07:21   Link #602
sharingan0619
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yo..u guys are like totally obsessed with this...chill out....u all are going into too much detail on fsn, it's all just melding together now.
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Old 2007-05-13, 10:51   Link #603
mlai
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There's no so thing as 'pure intention' for Shirou. Weather it is to end the war, or to save people around him, he is half driven by guilt, and another half driven by his father's figure---he never wanted to do one thing on his own for himself---as mentioned by Archer in UBW.
You're ignoring Shirou's speech in the crypt to Kotomine in the anime, and in its longer more complete form in the game. Shirou realizes and grows beyond his impure intentions in Fate.

Quote:
When Shirou learn the problem with Sakura, he will most likely blame himself for not noticing as though as he thinks it's cool.
If it ends up that he fails to save her, it is only his own fault for being stupid and not seeing a problem in its early stage. Not a fault in his ideal of becoming a hero. Therefore it doesn't "twist" him.

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It's true that a normal magician won't feel guilty if another servant died. But because of Shirou's personality he is probably the only one who would.
No he won't. He does have enough brains to make the distinction between innocent ppl and those who walk the path of magic. Remember what he said while choking Shinji. It wasn't just a bluff; he meant it. It was like that for Duncan in the Highlander TV series: he had zero problems killing other immortals, but he was so soft on humans he couldn't even kill the mugger who killed his GF.

Ilya's happy enough just being with her stepbrother.

I'm not a Nasuverse nut and I despise the "hard" data background of FSN. I prefer to consider FSN as a stand-alone story where the HG is the true HG and where the Servants are lengendary heroes and not some type of RPG characters with stats for everything. But whether from a literary or a Nasuverse POV, Archer cannot be a future Fate Shirou.

@ Sharingan:

When a person has nothing important to add, it is very acceptable to say nothing at all, and just lurk.
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Old 2007-05-13, 12:16   Link #604
iamandragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlai View Post
You're ignoring Shirou's speech in the crypt to Kotomine in the anime, and in its longer more complete form in the game. Shirou realizes and grows beyond his impure intentions in Fate.
If possible can you quote the speech? I forgot.

Quote:
If it ends up that he fails to save her, it is only his own fault for being stupid and not seeing a problem in its early stage. Not a fault in his ideal of becoming a hero. Therefore it doesn't "twist" him.
Remember it's often easier for outsiders to integrate the situations--as long as it's his fault Shirou will fill guilty and it will make Shirou's will to become a hero weaver more. It's not the past twisting him, it's the times when Shirou is forced to do unjust things as Archer in the future that twists him. Shirou's resolve is the resistance to that.
Whenever he thinks of being a 'hero of justice' he would remind himself of his incapability in his life, and those experience will tell him 'you cannot save everyone, you are not fit to be a 'hero of justice'. Remember, in Fate route Shirou's sense of 'justice' is to 'save everyone', which we know is impossible, because even if he managed to get every single person out of the crises, there's still the bad guys he cannot save.

Quote:
No he won't. He does have enough brains to make the distinction between innocent ppl and those who walk the path of magic. Remember what he said while choking Shinji. It wasn't just a bluff; he meant it. It was like that for Duncan in the Highlander TV series: he had zero problems killing other immortals, but he was so soft on humans he couldn't even kill the mugger who killed his GF.
You do have a point here, but that's only because Shinji is posting a threat to someone other than him. Remember the remarks from Rin(I think it's Rin?) about how Shirou only thinks of others instead of himself. But if the only one involved is him he probably don't want to do anything about it and run away. Remember from the beginning of the game where Lancer tried to kill Shirou again(I love this word...) in his house? He ran away to the storehouse(or dojo?I forgot) because he don't want to bring danger to others. However if it is another person they'd probably run away to somewhere crowded where he can hide better.

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Ilya's happy enough just being with her stepbrother.
Happy afterwards is one thing, but you cannot deny the fact it's Shirou's fault that her beloved Berserker is dead--and Shirou will think it's a crime he commited.

Well again, my theories only works if you think 'Shirou is from one of the 3 routes'. If you insist Archer is from a 4th scenario, then there is nothing I can say because none of us know what happened to Shirou, and therefore we cannot judge if Shirou will be twisted like Archer.

But here's a critical question: How is it possible for Shirou to know about Avalon? If you insist that Shirou is from a different scenario that we don't know, please device a plot/scene that Saber can find out about Avalon.

Last edited by iamandragon; 2007-05-14 at 07:54.
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Old 2007-05-14, 16:20   Link #605
sharingan0619
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@mlai
when a person thinks another person is sounding dumass, that person will kindly say"yo..u guys are like totally obsessed with this...chill out....u all are going into too much detail on fsn, it's all just melding together now." as to not insult anyone. and if what i said right now was offensive, by all means report it, i don't really care for anime anymore none the less argue with ppl who think ppl have to shut up.
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Old 2007-05-14, 17:04   Link #606
mlai
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@ Iamdragon:
I will answer your post in full after I find that passage in the game you're asking about.

@sharingan:
*You* think *I and Iamdragon* are having a dumb debate? You?? No offense but LOL. We are among the last of the intellectual posters left here on the FSN forum. There used to be a lot more, if you read the old threads. Those ppl have moved on because the series has ended for nearly a year now. We are still hanging around because we just love the series that much. Dissecting a story and having a debate about its finer points is much more productive than "I <3 Saber" for the 50x time.

For my own "I <3 Saber" urges, that's what my own fan manga is for, I don't have to shout to other ppl about it.

And if you don't care for anime anymore, then I guess you're leaving the animesuki forums. Good for you, go read a book or play some sports or something.
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Old 2007-05-14, 17:15   Link #607
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"I <3 Saber" x51

You should congratulate sharing0619--he just got married!
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Old 2007-05-14, 22:44   Link #608
polluted
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well um i got lost reading the threads before but basically there is still no translation for the game right?and even if i do get the game(my friend giving me not sure if its real and does the patch work if its fake?) i can dl an english patch for only one of the routes right?

please correct me ty
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Old 2007-05-15, 04:57   Link #609
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Yeah...there is currently no official English version to it. Translation fo F/SN is quite tough, no matter what language it is...*points at signature*
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Old 2007-05-15, 05:09   Link #610
roan
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Originally Posted by iamandragon View Post
Yeah...there is currently no official English version to it. Translation fo F/SN is quite tough, no matter what language it is...*points at signature*
Uh. There is no official version of it outside of Japanese.

There are patches though.

And an English patch for the Fate route.
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Old 2007-05-15, 05:23   Link #611
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I heard there's a full Chinese version out in Taiwan

Still not confirmed so don't believe in it
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Old 2007-05-15, 05:56   Link #612
mlai
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You should congratulate sharing0619--he just got married!
I would have never guessed he is old enough.

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I heard there's a full Chinese version out in Taiwan
I can find out whether that's true after July.
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Old 2007-05-15, 07:33   Link #613
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ok so if i get the game even if its fake or real(i think its real) i can dl the fate route patch and it will be english?
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Old 2007-05-17, 09:52   Link #614
iamandragon
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depends which patch you download. If you happen to download the F/SN martian patch it'll be written in martian.
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Old 2007-05-17, 16:46   Link #615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlai View Post
I can find out whether that's true after July.
Confirmed.

Find it out now!
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Old 2007-05-17, 18:25   Link #616
Xellos-_^
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Originally Posted by iamandragon View Post
Confirmed.

Find it out now!
Do you have a good store i can order this form that ships to the US?
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Old 2007-05-17, 20:12   Link #617
iamandragon
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It's just a patch, except it's in Chinese...
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Old 2007-05-17, 20:15   Link #618
Xellos-_^
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Originally Posted by iamandragon View Post
It's just a patch, except it's in Chinese...
How close are they to finishing?
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Old 2007-05-17, 22:31   Link #619
iamandragon
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dunno...it says it's complete? I can't verify it 'cause I don't have the game...
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Old 2007-05-22, 13:48   Link #620
Komet
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Err, about the installation. I looked through the thread but that were like mine went unanswered.

After you get the real tm.exe, what do you do? Whenever I clicked on it, it just says Generic.

Yes, JP unicode.
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