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Old 2009-05-05, 14:28   Link #1301
ShinMasaki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Isn't Nasuverse canon pretty much "whatever Nasu says is canon"?
This would be the case if the game was not made to be a fan disc. If we were saying that it was an actual inclusion to the Fate game, then I would say otherwise.

As with Kagetsu Tohya, the fan disc for Tsukihime, it is not to be seen as canon, but merely additional stories made for the purpose of entertaining the fans, not for the purpose of telling a serious story.

It does introduce the characters of Avenger and Bazett (Fate hollow) but if you look at the clues provided in Fate, it is obvious that Bazett is dead. She was the one who summoned Lancer. As she was sent by the Mage's Association, she trusted Kotomine, whe was the Mage's Association's administrator for the 5th Holy Grail War. With her guard down, he forcibly rips the command seals from Bazett which entails ripping her arm off.

During I believe the Fate route, it's mentioned that a Master was found, but they were already dead with their arm ripped off. With this, there is no way for Bazett to be alive for F/HA. There is no summoning of Avenger, he's just there when Bazett awakens...with both arms.

The fan discs of Kagetsu Tohya and Fate/Hollow were made intended to be looked at as a fanfiction. This is probably one of the reasons why Mirror-Moon, no Taka-jun, doesn't want to touch Fate/Hollow. I hear he also disliked Kagetsu Tohya as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikita View Post
that *would* be the case if it wasn't so inconsistent. *manages not to refer to tvtropes*

in this case however HF was clearly the canon route.
I'm not touching this. We already went like 10 pages worth over this.
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Old 2009-05-05, 16:02   Link #1302
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinMasaki View Post
The fan discs of Kagetsu Tohya and Fate/Hollow were made intended to be looked at as a fanfiction. This is probably one of the reasons why Mirror-Moon, no Taka-jun, doesn't want to touch Fate/Hollow. I hear he also disliked Kagetsu Tohya as well.
Again, I don't think "fanfiction" is the right word, but that may be due to my personal dislike of it.

F/HA, and Kagetsu Tohya, should probably be seen as "elseworld stories" rather than just "stories made for the fans".

After all, the Nasuverse IS a multiverse... so therefore, whatever Nasu writes is automatically canon in some universe.
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Old 2009-05-05, 16:11   Link #1303
Keroko
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I agree that the term fanfiction is wrong, as it signifies a story made by fans.

A better term to use would be fanservice. Let's face it, the scene of F/HA is the perfect setting with a little something for everyone. No ending in F/SN gave such a setting, so they created one to give maximum enjoyment to all the fans of the game rather than just a portion. It's like anime posters, which sometimes show characters in clothing they would never wear, or striking poses (sometimes with other characters) that they would never do.

Same thing for F/HA. It's fanservice. It's not canon. But people enjoy it, and that's why it's made.
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Old 2009-05-05, 16:35   Link #1304
Kaisos Erranon
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"Canon" is REALLY a relative term here.

Since there are infinite possibilites due to the Second Magic... everything is pretty much canon somewhere.


So let's stop discussing "canon".
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Old 2009-05-05, 22:34   Link #1305
Seitsuki
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agreed. we need a new topic.
uh when i joined in the discussion it was basically debating HF I think so
my favourite scenario was (...) well none are too great to Iriya but personally I liked UBW best. Lancer shows how awesome he is, Gil (that bastard >_>) gets a spear in the eye and Iriya's scene is so touching. *tear*
anyone else liked UBW? :3
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Old 2009-05-05, 22:57   Link #1306
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikita View Post
anyone else liked UBW? :3
Everyone loves UBW. That is my entire problem.
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Old 2009-05-06, 23:25   Link #1307
Deadwings
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Everyone loves UBW. That is my entire problem.
So you don't like it because everyone else does?

I loved it. True, Iriya gets a premature death, but she plays it wonderfully. Anf the whole Idea vs Ideal is great topic imo. Personally, I side with Archer, I just can't stand Shirou's way of thinking, so selfless and irrational. If it wasn't for the heroines and the servants probably I wouldn't play the game, the main character pisses me off.
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Old 2009-05-07, 03:07   Link #1308
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by Deadwings View Post
So you don't like it because everyone else does?
No, I don't like it because as a result of how "epic" it was no one seems to like HF. Which was my favorite route. So eh.
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Old 2009-05-07, 12:26   Link #1309
alamarco
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HF was my favourite route too . Even though I'm a Rin fan, the level of emotions running through HF was just too great to ignore. It was so powerful .
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Old 2009-05-07, 13:30   Link #1310
swtrooper42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadwings View Post
I loved it. True, Iriya gets a premature death, but she plays it wonderfully. And the whole Idea vs Ideal is great topic imo. Personally, I side with Archer, I just can't stand Shirou's way of thinking, so selfless and irrational. If it wasn't for the heroines and the servants probably I wouldn't play the game, the main character pisses me off.
Agree with the Ilya thing. She just got two scenes but made the most of it.

Personally, I'll side with Shirou here. UBW Shirou, not Fate Shirou.
In UBW, he realizes that his ideal is impossible but he chooses to pursue it anyway. The beauty of the impossible ideal makes the journey worth it and he's going to do what he can to make it possible. Sure he realizes that his ideal is destructive to himself, but he has no regrets about it. It is the only path.

I think Shirou is kinda charming as a character. Sure he may be kinda sexist, insanely idealistic, prone to getting himself almost killed, idiotic, insensitive.... where was I going with this? Anyway, he's a good guy.
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Old 2009-05-07, 14:16   Link #1311
eiyuu99
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If H/A Shirou, Fate Shirou, UBW Shirou, HF Shirou and Archer route Shirou meet up,
what would be the outcome?

A death match of ideals?
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Old 2009-05-07, 17:56   Link #1312
Seitsuki
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all it took for a deathmatch in UBW was one Shirou and Archer. dont even TRY bringing in any more xD
on another note.. Iriya.. ;_;
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Old 2009-05-09, 12:46   Link #1313
aldw
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Sakura has the same power level as Rin, she just has different affinities, so if she were to have been the Tohsaka heir instead of Rin she could quite easily face her in battle. Rin wouldn't have held up as well with the Matou treatment as the game itself points out in different places, but she wouldn't have become Dark Rin as she doesn't have Sakura's shadow affinity necessary to do so.

Also, between Kagetsu Tohya and F/HA, the difference is that Kagetsu Tohya is a dreamstate in Shiki's mind, whereas F/HA is a dimensional convergence, so it is more stuff that could/would have happened anyways.
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Old 2009-05-13, 22:36   Link #1314
orangejuicetang
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This is just me thinking out loud here, but would anyone else love to see a story on archer's past done via fate/stay zero light novel style?
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Old 2009-05-14, 02:55   Link #1315
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by orangejuicetang View Post
This is just me thinking out loud here, but would anyone else love to see a story on archer's past done via fate/stay zero light novel style?
Yes, but it would be so depressing.
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Old 2009-05-14, 03:40   Link #1316
rastilin
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Yes, but it would be so depressing.
I doubt it would be any more depressing than Heaven's Feel. They might as well make it a Visual Novel. Why not? They're finishing their current project relatively soon so they could start something else.
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Old 2009-05-14, 14:12   Link #1317
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by rastilin View Post
I doubt it would be any more depressing than Heaven's Feel. They might as well make it a Visual Novel. Why not? They're finishing their current project relatively soon so they could start something else.
They're working on the Tsukihime remake next, actually, after Witch on the Holy Night.
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Old 2009-05-15, 01:27   Link #1318
ShinMasaki
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
They're working on the Tsukihime remake next, actually, after Witch on the Holy Night.
they've been saying that forever though...that the Tsukihime remake is 'the next project on their list' or whatever. basically, sacchin will NEVER get a route.

Oh and i'm still waiting for a confirmed release date for Mahou Tsukai no Yoru, the progress on the Fate H/A translation by amukunau 'seems' to be going somewhere, although I'm not sure where that somewhere is. I'm just going to start translations up immediately for Mahou Tsukai once I get my hands on a copy.
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Old 2009-05-15, 04:47   Link #1319
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by ShinMasaki View Post
they've been saying that forever though...that the Tsukihime remake is 'the next project on their list' or whatever. basically, sacchin will NEVER get a route.
I was under the impression it had a 2009/2010 release date...

It's about time to rerelease it too. It's been what, ten years? And the visual quality is horrible.
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Old 2009-05-19, 02:49   Link #1320
Seitsuki
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If we can wait for Haruhi sama's second coming, we can wait for this. No problem
(I'm not even gonna MENTION vol. 10.)
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