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Old 2008-06-06, 08:01   Link #21
SolarNova
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err i mean.. in the perfect world every1 is united under 1 rule ..whether that be a emperor ,king queen or government it donít honestly matter as long as it works

I dont mean the complete annihilation of culture, just a single set of people or person to decide the goings on of things instead of the clashing of interest that is constantly going on around the world today lol.

Think of these futuristic animes with multiple worlds each under one rule. Would make things so much more simpler . Who should take that position of authority i am NOT getting into however lol.

Thats my point of view anyway.
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Old 2008-06-06, 09:25   Link #22
Kinny Riddle
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Why does this look so much like the Code Geass map?

And seeing how China is one huge yellow slab, could that be the Chinese Federation? And interestingly Area 11 is now quarantined off. All that's left is for the US of South America to merge with USA and rename itself Britannia, much to the chagrin of Winston Churchill and the British Monarch.

Such is the popularity of Code Geass that even though I don't watch a single episode, I still manage to get myself informed of the background world.

But seriously, why would Churchill want to give up Canada to the US? George VI was popular in Canada, and Canada was even contemplated as a backup base of operations for the British Empire should the British Isles fall to the Nazis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae View Post
If they manage to control nationalism in the various unions, there's a high chance of a comparably peaceful world.
Strictly speaking, there's nothing wrong with your theory, but for some reason, I keep seeing this Oceania vs Eastasia vs Eurasia Orwellian vibes here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:1...ap_v2_quad.svg
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Old 2008-06-06, 10:03   Link #23
Viperx
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Originally Posted by escimo View Post
Quite many Finns were back in the day really pissed about that map and ones like it. Things would have been quite different if Finland would have been under Soviet Russian rule for the 50 years that it survived after making of that map. Well we would have gotten rid of the mandatory Swedish as a school subject.

Though it's somewhat understandable that Finland was "given" to USSR in these maps. Finland being an Axis nation in WW2. Not so united under common ideals but common enemy. Still as far as lost wars go WW2 was a good one for Finland considering the long term effects.
Yeah, not sure about the dates of the "Finnish winter war" guessing the map was made before Finnland "lost"
If the Finns had lost the war for real the rest of the north (well Scandinavia at least) would probably be next. Well thats at least my impression.

On topic I get kind of annoyed about this use of the word liberal, democracy is pointless without liberalism (unless you like opression?)
To me the liberals where the ones who advocated for human rigths and stuff.
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Old 2008-06-06, 10:59   Link #24
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Originally Posted by qtipbrit92
...this is political idealism at its finest.
Pffft. I've got a better "idea". *rummages through his cupboard for some dice and plastic pieces*

Let's play Risk! I'll take the Federated Republics of India, the United Republics of China and quarantined Japan first, thank you very much. First targets - the British Commonwealth's Indonesia and Australia.
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Old 2008-06-06, 11:24   Link #25
Slice of Life
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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Pffft. I've got a better "idea". *rummages through his cupboard for some dice and plastic pieces*

Let's play Risk! I'll take the Federated Republics of India, the United Republics of China and quarantined Japan first, thank you very much. First targets - the British Commonwealth's Indonesia and Australia.
Oh, it seems we have reached an adequate standard of discussion. I take the USSR and the rest of continental Europe then. Once I'm done with Britain and the Middle East expect some kilotons of 'liberal idealism' being dropped over your population centers.
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Old 2008-06-06, 11:28   Link #26
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If you're going to post this as a topic, you might as well include the article for it: http://www.worldinbalance.net/agreem...dmoralmap.html

Quote:
1942

The "NEW WORLD MORAL MAP" was printed in Philadelphia in 1942, by Maurice Gomberg, three years before the end of WWII, and just before the adoption of the United Nations Charter by the United States. It outlines new "world regions." Canada, the United States, and Mexico become the new "United States." The Southern hemisphere as we now know it is outlined and imprinted as the "United States of South America." As if there was no doubt as to who would be the victors in the war, a thick line is placed around Japan, Italy and Germany with the word "quarantined" printed on them.

The country now known as Israel is heavily outlined and titled "Hebrewland." It nestles securely on the continent labeled as "The Arabian Federated Republics." The individual African countries are joined as the "Union of African Republics." The entire face of the world as we know it is transformed. There's a legend printed on the bottom of the map:

OUR POLICY SHALL BE THIS:

1. We, the U.S.A., in cooperation with our allies, for reasons of our national safety and in the interests of international morality, are determined to crush and completely destroy the military power of the Axis aggressors, and their satellites regardless of cost, effort and time necessary to accomplish this task.

2. The old world order of colonial oppression, exploitation of dominions, rival imperialism and mercenary balance of power diplomacy; of majesties, dictators, privileged minorities, plutocratic monopolists and similar social parasites; the corrupted order responsible for the present world cataclysm, endangering our national safety and peaceful process, shall never rise again.

3. A New World Moral Order for permanent peace and freedom shall be established at the successful conclusion of the present war.

4. For reasons of history, economic structure, favorable geography and the welfare of mankind, the U.S.A. must, altruistically, assume the leadership of the newly established, democratic world order.

5. To reduce the burden and criminal waste of armaments expenditures everywhere in the world, the U.S.A., with the cooperation of Latin-America, the British Commonwealth of Nations, and the U.S.S.R. shall undertake to guarantee peace to the nations which will be permanently disarmed and demilitarized after the conclusion of the present war.

6. In order to be able, in the fulfillment of our obligations, to effectively prevent the possibility of a recurrence of another world cataclysm, the invincibility of the U.S.A. as a military, naval and air power, shall be the major prerequisite.

7. For realistic considerations of strategy and our invulnerability, it is imperative that the U.S.A. shall obtain relinquishment of controls of their possessions from all foreign Powers in the entire Western Hemisphere, it's surrounding waters and strategic island outposts as outlined on accompanying map.

8. For considerations of hemispheric defense and in the spirit and tradition of the new Monroe Doctrine of hemispheric solidarity and the "Good Neighbor" policy, the U.S.A. with the consent of the Latin-American Republics, shall obtain control and protectorate rights of the relinquished territories.

9. To strengthen our position in the Caribbean area which is of obvious importance to hemispheric defense, all possible inducements shall be offered to our neighbors of Central America and the West Indies to facilitate their entrance as equal states of the U.S.A. as outlined on map.

10. To fortify the politico-economic unity of the Western Hemisphere, the U.S.A. shall promote and assist the unification of South America into a well organized, democratic, federated "United States of South America."

11. The liberated British, French and Netherlands Guiana shall be reorganized as one state of the U.S.S.A.

12. All Powers shall relinquish their controls of their colonial, mandate and strategic island possessions everywhere in the world.

13. The British Commonwealth of Nations, the second military and naval Power of importance cooperating in a binding compact with the U.S.A. as a Power for freedom, shall retain and acquire control such territories, peace-security bases and strategic islands outposts essential for the maintenance of world peace and freedom as outlines on the map.

14. The U.S.S.R., the third military Power of importance cooperating with the U.S.A. as a Power for freedom and the maintenance of world peace, shall acquire control of the liberated, disorganized adjacent areas and those of Germany-Austria to be re-educated and eventually incorporated as equal republics of the U.S.S.R., as approximately outlined on map.

15. A world League of Nationalities with arbitration ans supervision powers shall be organized.

16. A World Court with punitive powers of absolute boy-cott, quarantine, blockade and occupation by international police, against lawbreakers of international morality shall be organized.

17. The U.S.A. with the close cooperation of the United States of South America, the British Commonwealth of Nations, the U.S.S.R. and the World League of Nationalities, shall promote and assist in the unification of the relinquished territories and the areas at present unsoundly divided into well organized democratic and absolutely demilitarized republics as approximately on the map.

18. The areas known as Netherlands, Belgium, Luxemburg, Switzerland, France, Spain, Portugal, the island of Corsica, and eventually Italy and the islands of Sardinia and Sicily shall be unified as a demilitarized, federated "United States of Europe."

19. The areas known as Sweden, Norway, Denmark and the Spitsbergen islands shall be unified as a demilitarized, federated "United States of Scandinavia."

20. The continent of Africa shall be reorganized and unified as a demilitarized, federated "Union of African Republics."

21. The areas of Saudi Arabia, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Hejas, Aden and Oman, shall be unified as a demilitarized union of "Arabian Federated Republics."

22. The areas known as India, including Afghanistan, Baluchistan, Nepal, Bhutan and Burma shall be unified as a demilitarized "federated Republics of India."

23. The areas known as China, Inner Mongolia, Tibet, Thailand, Malaya, Indo-China and Korea, shall be unified as a demilitarized, federated "United Republics of China."

24. The areas known as Greece, Macedonia, Albania, Crete, Dodecanese and adjacent islands in the Aegean sea shall be unified as a demilitarized "Federal Republic of Greece."

25. The areas known as Eire and Northern Ireland shall be unified as a demilitarized independent republic of "Eire."

26. The area of the Holy Land of the ancient Hebrews, at present known as Palestine and Trans-Jordan, and the adjacent requisite regions as outlined on map, for considerations of history and the imperative necessity to alleviate a post war refugee problem, shall be unified as a demilitarized republic of "hebrewland."

27. The area known as European Turkey, adjacent to the Dardanelles, sea of Marmora and Bosporus, for considerations of realistic peace strategy shall be placed under joint control of the U.S.S.R. and Turkey.

28. The area known as Turkey shall be a demilitarized independent republic of "Turkey."

29. All problems of exchange, transfer and repatriation of populations shall be administered by the World League of Nationalities.

30. The criminal perpetrators and their partners in guilt of this hideous war shall be brought to justice and unforgettable punishment administered.

31. All subjects of Japan and all persons of Japanese origin of doubtful loyalty shall be expelled from the entire Western Hemisphere, U.S.A. protectorates and strategic island outposts and their property confiscated for post-war reconstruction needs.

32. All subjects of Germany and Italy and all persons of German and Italian origin known as active supporters of Nazi and fascist ideologies shall be treated similarly.

33. German, Italian, Japanese immigration to the Western Hemisphere, its protectorates and island outposts shall be indefinitely stopped.

34. All persons of German origin in East Prussia and the Rhineland shall be transferred to inner Germany and the regions permanently de-Prussianized.

35. All persons of German, Italian and Japanese origin shall be permanently expelled from their now conquered territories and their property confiscated for post-war construction needs.

36. To cleanse the populations of the defeated Axis aggressors of the intoxication of military chauvinism; to effectuate the removal and destruction of their potential military establishments; to recover the accumulated loot and to re-educate them for their eventual membership in the Family of Nations, the areas of Germany-Austria, Italy and Japan shall be hermetically and indefinitely quarantined and administered by appointed Governors subject to supervision by the world League of Nationalities.

37. All resources, industrial and labor capacity of quarantined areas shall be employed for the post war restoration and reconstruction needs.

38. To reduce the numerical power of the aggressor nations, as a potential military advantage, a Population Control Policy shall be elaborated and applied in the quarantined area.

39. In the New World Moral Order which we seek to establish, besides the essential political freedoms, the following fundamental economic changes are imperative:

(a) Nationalization of all natural resources and equitable distribution of same to all nations...everywhere in the world;

(b) Nationalization of international banking, foreign investments, railroads and power plants....everywhere in the world;

(c) Nationalization of all armaments producing establishments by all military powers;

(d) Federal control of foreign commerce and shipping;

(e) The establishment of a world common monetary system;

(f) World wide limitations of interest rates to a maximum of two percent;

40. To retain the victory and leadership of our united democratic effort....the aim of which is not vengeance or exploitation, but freedom and security to all nations for peaceful progress....the unified "Supreme War Command of the United Nations" at the conclusion of the present war, shall be recognized and transformed into a permanent "Supreme Military and Economic Council" collaborating with the World League of Nationalities in post war construction and to enforce world peace.

41. The " Supreme Military and Economic Council" shall appoint the Governors to administer the quarantined areas until their eventual parole.

For this purposeful beginning we must fight until absolute victory.
Note also that Maurice Gomberg is basically a nobody, so this proposal carries no weight of any kind. Oh, and there's really nothing linking it to any of the commonly accepted conceptions of liberalism - it's more of a goofball fantasy.
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Old 2008-06-06, 11:49   Link #27
risingstar3110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
If you're going to post this as a topic, you might as well include the article for it: http://www.worldinbalance.net/agreem...dmoralmap.html


Note also that Maurice Gomberg is basically a nobody, so this proposal carries no weight of any kind. Oh, and there's really nothing linking it to any of the commonly accepted conceptions of liberalism - it's more of a goofball fantasy.
He wrote something like that as a nobody in 1942?

I give him my respect then, even while i do not agree with most of them.
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Old 2008-06-06, 16:49   Link #28
Irenicus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
That map makes fans of grand strategy go,"Now, is it possible for me to carve out that empire of X colour?"
No, the map makes fans of grand strategy scoff. Real fans of grand strategy knows: you take France, 1940, then you conquer the world.

Anything less is pathetic realism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle
But seriously, why would Churchill want to give up Canada to the US? George VI was popular in Canada, and Canada was even contemplated as a backup base of operations for the British Empire should the British Isles fall to the Nazis.
Mr. Gomberg is clearly as anti-British as much as he is anti-Axis. The British Empire lost pretty much its entire, well, empire, except a few inherently friendly commonwealth nations like the Australasian countries.

Let's not mention Africa, India, among other places: even goddamn Ireland is missing! Ireland! The shame!
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Old 2008-06-06, 16:54   Link #29
Deathkillz
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The hell happened to area 11 XD

Those Japanese are unsafe people...they tried to warn us D:
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Old 2008-06-06, 17:48   Link #30
Kang Seung Jae
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice of Life View Post
The wikipedia page for idealism doesn't even contain the string "liber" expect in the link list at the bottom. The wiki page for liberalism contains "ideali" in one remark that Kant was an idealist (in the abstract philosophical sense) and mentions conservative criticism that liberal ideas were "idealistic".

World domination fantasies aren't liberal and they are idealistic only if formulated by very stupid people. No wonder that the map in question doens't look like the product of a liberal mind to me and I also very much doubt that it is a product of idealism.

Kang Seung Jae is fighting windmills. And as we know his own plans for "world map improvement" have similar dimensions.
Liberal international relations theory

There you go mate. It's just a term, not a shot at liberal people.


Oh, and I'm sure splitting up PRC into 3~5 countries isn't that big a thing, considering I'm "liberating" Tibet and East Turkistan.
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Old 2008-06-07, 13:35   Link #31
james0246
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LOL, The United States of Scandanavia...and they have control of Ireland, Albania, and Hebrewland...man, I want to visit Hebrewland some day, it must be Hebrewtastic...

And what happened to Wales, only England and Scotland are shown on the map.

I have to say, it is good to see Africa United as a Republic.
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Old 2008-06-07, 13:36   Link #32
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Quote:
I have to say, it is good to see Africa United as a Republic.
Yes, because it's great for people who don't have anything to do with each other at all to be united. Worked wonders for the Soviet Union.
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Old 2008-06-07, 13:39   Link #33
james0246
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Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
Yes, because it's great for people who don't have anything to do with each other at all to be united. Worked wonders for the Soviet Union.
LOL, you took my coments on Africa seriously, but not my comments on Hebrewland . I guess you can pick and choose your over-the-top comments .
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Old 2008-06-07, 13:51   Link #34
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Sorry, I just thought it wasn't on the same tone as the rest of the post.

And having just woken up with a hangover doesn't help much, either.
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Old 2008-06-07, 15:07   Link #35
james0246
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Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
Sorry, I just thought it wasn't on the same tone as the rest of the post.

And having just woken up with a hangover doesn't help much, either.
Don't worry, it is partially my fault, I forgot to use the online sarcasm indicators for that specific statement.
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Old 2008-06-08, 05:51   Link #36
Happy_Chip
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Looking a bit closer at this, I think this guy had had woeful ignorance. I can't see the Korean people ever being OK with being part of China, for instance. Or for various countries in the Balkans all suddenly being merged together and called 'Greece'. Or N. Ireland and Ireland being merged together without a fair number of folks in N. Ireland being upset about it. Lumping all of Africa together in a continent-wide nation is a stretch too.

Hebrewland? oh, so then the capital is Jewville?
(sorry if that's off-color but honestly when I see 'Hebrewland' that's the image it conjures up)

It's like these are just colored areas on the map. However his delineation of Europe between west and east is disturbing in its accuracy, after WWII...
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Old 2008-06-13, 18:46   Link #37
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Apparently, closed-minded idiocy is not exclusive to the 20th century.

Too bad there's no way to see the full-sized image (not even Google turns it up). I'd really consider singing up just to get one of those and laugh at it.
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Old 2008-11-27, 01:56   Link #38
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The map looks like one in the Gundam SEED world.
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Old 2008-11-27, 17:51   Link #39
LeoXiao
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Fun map to look at and read the texts at the bottom. I wonder if the guys making this were actually serious, and who it was who made it.
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Old 2008-11-27, 20:15   Link #40
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Had to laugh at the "United Republics of China". Yep, I'm sure that was going to work out fine.
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