AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Macross

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2008-05-09, 00:26   Link #1
Wesley84
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
The Macross Universe - Analysis and Discussion

[ Please use this thread to discuss and analyze the setting of the Macross Universe. Possible topics of discussion are (but not limited to):

Human-Zentradi relationship
Economic concerns behind the Macross Fleets
Astrography
Cultural attitudes/differences
Social progression of the human race


Please also note that, due to the nature of this topic, there will be spoilers from the older Macross works, so new viewers should proceed with caution. Giving away something really imporant (i.e. Minmei turns into a space whale in Flashback 2012!) shouldn't be posted if at all possible; but if they're absolutely necessary, put that information in a spoiler tag, and use a meaningful label. Minor spoilers will be okay (and probably unavoidable as well).

- 4Tran]



Spoiler Policy
  • Any post based on information in advance of the anime will be deleted unless a spoiler tag is used.
    Spoiler tags should not be used except where discussing spoilers, lest people be afraid to read your post.
  • Adding a Spoiler tag:
    Just highlight your spoiler and click the button found on the "Quick Reply" and "Reply to Thread" forms.
    Make sure that you include a title for the spoiler!
  • Please use the Report button if you see any unmarked spoilers:
    Click the button found to the left of the post, just under the poster's avatar.
    Using the Report button is anonymous and helps the Moderators to locate and deal with problems quickly.
  • Posting unmarked spoilers may result in a ban.
    Note: Reporting a post does not mean the poster will be banned instantly.
    The moderators prefer to use bans only if warnings are ignored.



How do the Zentradi afford to live in a capitalist soceity?
Wesley84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-09, 00:37   Link #2
ReddyRedWolf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
How do the Zentradi afford to live in a capitalist soceity?
Like everybody does they have jobs.

Heck this was shown back in Macross where the trio became laudry mat owners. (I think one of them was seeing a bridge bunny. So money for dates are required.)

Giant Zentradi back then in construction business.

In Macross Frontier farming.

The sky is the limit. There are even rock musicians.

Though I'd like to see a giant Zentradi lawyer.
ReddyRedWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-09, 02:05   Link #3
Wesley84
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
Like everybody does they have jobs.

Heck this was shown back in Macross where the trio became laudry mat owners. (I think one of them was seeing a bridge bunny. So money for dates are required.)

Giant Zentradi back then in construction business.

In Macross Frontier farming.

The sky is the limit. There are even rock musicians.

Though I'd like to see a giant Zentradi lawyer.
But when you think about it, how much would cost to live simply by being a Zentradi? If you're micloned, you're just like any other human, but if you remain a giant or even keep switching back and forth, assuming it's all proportional, your living expenses are probably going to be about a hundred times more than that of a small person.

Do you suppose being able to live as a giant is something of a status symbol? Flaunting your wealth and all that?
Wesley84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-09, 02:11   Link #4
ReddyRedWolf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Simple really create their own economy, a market which can also accomodate miclones.

Minimum wages must set for Zentradi standards.

Folmo mall is a perfect example of this.
ReddyRedWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-09, 02:35   Link #5
Wesley84
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
Simple really create their own economy, a market which can also accomodate miclones.

Minimum wages must set for Zentradi standards.

Folmo mall is a perfect example of this.
How much do you think it'd cost to create a giant shoe? You'd probably need like at least two guys working on it for at least a day, which would amount to hundreds of dollars not even accounting for the material cost. Then factor in supply and demand, which would probably raise the price further. Add brand names, and you're looking at what would probably be thousands of dollars just for one pair of shoes.

I just don't see how Zentradis having large bodies would be at all beneficial in a human culture. You say construction work, but building a skycraper is not like building a model house, and machinery would be more reliable than a giant man.

That's why it seems likely to me that only wealthy Zentradi could afford to be giants. Being a giant would have no particular advantage over more convinentional means while posing some serious disadvantages, particularly where maintaining a life-style is concerned.
Wesley84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-09, 10:50   Link #6
squaresphere
Macross Lifer!
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Giant Zentradi probably get paid more but have a lot less options on what they can do. For instance the farmer and the giant hippo-cows. It would probably take 3 miclones plus machinery (at least a cattle prod) to herd the hippos. It only takes 1 full size Zentradi to just pick one up and move it.

But being a giant Zentradi singer wouldn't make for a good career unless you're just aiming to be a novelty.

In all honestly, this is pure speculation from a good discussion question and should probably moved to a differnt thread.
squaresphere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-09, 11:02   Link #7
Wesley84
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by squaresphere View Post
Giant Zentradi probably get paid more but have a lot less options on what they can do. For instance the farmer and the giant hippo-cows. It would probably take 3 miclones plus machinery (at least a cattle prod) to herd the hippos. It only takes 1 full size Zentradi to just pick one up and move it.
The point is there really isn't any kind of work available that would allow a giant Zentradi to live by virtue of their bodies. They're simply too big.

Quote:
But being a giant Zentradi singer wouldn't make for a good career unless you're just aiming to be a novelty.
On the other hand, a giant Zentradi fetish model would be awesome beyond words.

Quote:
In all honestly, this is pure speculation from a good discussion question and should probably moved to a differnt thread.
Story of my life. I don't mind though.
Wesley84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-09, 13:18   Link #8
4Tran
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Giant-sized individuals are a bad idea economically, militarily and for space-travel. It's one of those fun, but not horribly realistic things out there.
__________________
The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won...
4Tran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-09, 13:41   Link #9
squaresphere
Macross Lifer!
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Do we have any idea how they Zentradi fed themselves before being culture shocked?

My other thought is that some Zentradi might have to stay macro sized for health reasons. We know Klan Klien (don't know her actual name) has some genetic deficiency that makes her body child like when microned (micloned?). It wouldn't be a far stretch to say some other Zents might have other genetic defects that make it impossibles for them to live normal lives as microns.
squaresphere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-09, 13:41   Link #10
Burner of Anime
Illegal Additives
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
I just don't see how Zentradis having large bodies would be at all beneficial in a human culture. You say construction work, but building a skycraper is not like building a model house, and machinery would be more reliable than a giant man.
Doesn't have to earthbound construction. A zent has higher survivability in space, extreme temperature/gravity and maybe radiation along with titan strength. Ideal for deepspace colony building which is the current policy of the N.U.N.S government.They probably have way more experiance in this than man. Considering that they already have the infrastructure for this [lots of zent size suits that apparently last a VERY LONG time] as well as the automated factory to build things at a very low cost, all that's needed are the raw materials to keep feeding that system. In fact, the same automated production system would have been retooled for luxury and consumer goods in XXXXXL size

Even a micloned zent has the same survivability traits. Imagine what this type of worker is naturally worth in environments mere men cannot go.

Thankfully, the human race still has the monopoly on science and culture otherwise the giants would have stomped us flat by now
Burner of Anime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-09, 13:52   Link #11
ReddyRedWolf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
But remmember prior to integration Zentradi thought we were the weird ones being miclones.

Being their size was perfectly normal.

Now that we have this thread I have to say that Zentradi has been shown differently across the Macross colony fleets.

Macross 7 10% of the population is Zentradi decent with their president a Meltrandi. (Being a war hero must have helped her campaign.)
Some giant Zentradi work in the entertainment business. Must be either be historical dramas or B-movies. (Imagine a Zentradi in a Godzilla suit)
Macross 7 has one main city residential the others are dedicated specialization shps. Milky highway is an infractructure for travel between ships.


Macross 5 had it's entire population composed of micloned Zentradi. Their escort fleet much like the Megaroad 1 were Zentradi warships.

Macross Galaxy as Sheryll described has few Zentradi. Zentradi live on other ships on the fleet. Their escort fleet interestingly are Meltrandi warships. Which may explain why she hasn't seen giant Zentradi before.

Macross Frontier I must say it must be the most heavily invested fleet ever seen. It is called "Little Earth" with good reason. Locals like San Francisco and Shibuya are reproduced. Has more island ships which can accomodate full sized Zentradi. Probably a higher standard of living than most fleets. Given the level commercial technology it has a very healthy economy.

Oh yes I must say cybernetic augmentation being banned on some or most of the human-Zentradi colonial sphere is understandable given the incident at the 30th aniversary armistice on Earth. (Macross Plus)
ReddyRedWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-09, 14:12   Link #12
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
But remmember prior to integration Zentradi thought we were the weird ones being miclones.

Being their size was perfectly normal.
It's not a matter of "normal", it's a matter of cost. Giants take more room and more food, their clothes take more material to make, and so on.

Which begs a question: if they had the technology to reduce normal humans to 1/10 their size, would they go for it?


Quote:
Oh yes I must say cybernetic augmentation being banned on some or most of the human-Zentradi colonial sphere is understandable given the incident at the 30th aniversary armistice on Earth. (Macross Plus)
What happened?
Anh_Minh is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-09, 14:35   Link #13
ReddyRedWolf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
What happened?
Spoiler for Macross Plus:



So you can see why there is bias against this.

Macross Galaxy appears to be more liberally minded.
ReddyRedWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-09, 16:12   Link #14
Tak
☭ автомат Калашникова ☭
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Neu Herzogtum Zeon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
It's not a matter of "normal", it's a matter of cost. Giants take more room and more food, their clothes take more material to make, and so on.
Well, the Zents perfectly supported themselves when they were on an expedition of conquest.

Now, remember, most, if not an overwhelming number of vessels employed by the UN SPACY are still Zent ships, which were configured to specifically support their size.

That, and learning Zent technology was a huge step in increasing the logistics capabilities required for prolonged expeditions into unknown space.

Spoiler for End of SDF Macross:


- Tak

Last edited by 4Tran; 2008-05-09 at 16:41. Reason: Added spoiler tags
Tak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-09, 19:31   Link #15
4Tran
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Which begs a question: if they had the technology to reduce normal humans to 1/10 their size, would they go for it?
If it were in the Macross universe, and if such a reduction in size were to create no difficulty in terms of biological problems, and all accompanying technologies can be similarly miniaturized? Sure, I can imagine that many, if not most, people going that route. And they'd do so for the same reasons the Zentradi did. Instead of holding 5 million people in a single Macross fleet, it'd be able to sustain 5 billion people, and each would be a full-blown civilization. There are disadvantages with overly small bodies, but those have already been addressed given the premise.

If it were any other universe, and all other advantages/disadvantages were the same, I doubt that the humans would go for it. Biologically speaking, we're a very conservative species, and there's a lot of natural aversion to modifying our bodies to any great degree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
So you can see why there is bias against this.

Macross Galaxy appears to be more liberally minded.
While there's some bias, notice that it's being used fairly selectively: while biomechanical implants are outlawed in Macross Frontier, the limited-AI Ghost fighters are still extensively employed. I like this selective application of principle since it feels natural to have a certain degree of inconsistency.

It's also illustrative of how very different the various Macross fleets can be; from the two in Macross 7, Galaxy and Frontier. Each one is like a separate nation looking for a place to roost, bound together by a common purpose and culture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Well, the Zents perfectly supported themselves when they were on an expedition of conquest.

Now, remember, most, if not an overwhelming number of vessels employed by the UN SPACY are still Zent ships, which were configured to specifically support their size.
Anh_Minh's argument isn't that the Zentradi weren't self-sufficient or anything like that; it was that supporting giants would require much more resources than smaller individuals, and alluding to the effect that the latter could be maintained much more easily.

In addition, A Zentradi vessel that's transformed to micro-sized crew would have much more room to work with, less food and other support requirements, and the crew can access areas that the giants couldn't before.
__________________
The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won...
4Tran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-09, 19:38   Link #16
Tak
☭ автомат Калашникова ☭
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Neu Herzogtum Zeon
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
In addition, A Zentradi vessel that's transformed to micro-sized crew would have much more room to work with, less food and other support requirements, and the crew can access areas that the giants couldn't before.
That may be true, but that means reconfiguring some millions of vessels in UN SPACY, as they were all configured for giants. Not an economically feasible matter, if you ask me.

- Tak
Tak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-09, 19:56   Link #17
4Tran
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Millions of ships? Is it really that many?

Spoiler for End of SDF Macross:


In any case, I'm not really trying to argue that the UN Spacy would reconfiguring and recrewing the Zentradi ships. I'm just pointing out the advantages the Zentradi would have gained if they were micro-sized to begin with.
__________________
The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won...
4Tran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-09, 20:14   Link #18
Tak
☭ автомат Калашникова ☭
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Neu Herzogtum Zeon
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
Millions of ships? Is it really that many?

Spoiler for End of SDF Macross:
Spoiler for End of SDF Macross:


- Tak
Tak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-09, 22:15   Link #19
Cadorna
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Age: 32
Send a message via MSN to Cadorna
i think this isn' t cannon but is around macross 7 time


The Vessels of the UN Spacy

Total Vessels = 6440

Class of Ship & Number
0030 - New Macross Class Battle Carrier
0150 - Uraga Class Escort Battle Carrier
0400 - Guantanamo Class Stealth Carrier
1130 - Haruna Class Stealth Cruiser
4515 - Bolognese Class Stealth Frigate
0015 - Sentinel Class Stealth Scout
0100 - Beginhill Class Training Ship
0012 - Neo Nupetiet Vergnitz-bis Class BattleShip
0008 - Quaedol-Magdomilla Command Ship
0014 - Quiltra Queleual Landing Ship
0027 - Thuverl Salan Destroyer
0039 - Tou-Redir Scout Ship
__________________
Cadorna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-09, 22:19   Link #20
ReddyRedWolf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Well Nekki Basara was aiming to swoon all the girls of that fleet.

It just happens Chlore was the most tsundere.
ReddyRedWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:15.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
We use Silk.