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View Poll Results: Potential Pairing - Multiple Choice Option
Alto x VF 171 32 12.31%
Ozma x Bobby 13 5.00%
Ranka x Sheryl 42 16.15%
Sheryl x Alto 199 76.54%
Yasaburo x Alto 5 1.92%
Ranka x Ai-kun 38 14.62%
Alto x Klan 14 5.38%
Ranka x Alto 54 20.77%
Ranka x Brera 37 14.23%
Klan x Michael 101 38.85%
Ozma x Cathy 111 42.69%
Luca x Nanase 41 15.77%
Wilder x Monica 41 15.77%
Alto x VF25 37 14.23%
Yasaburo x Alto's father 10 3.85%
Alto x Brera 18 6.92%
Grace x Ranka 12 4.62%
Nanase x Ranka 21 8.08%
Sheryl x Klan 24 9.23%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 260. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-06-15, 21:21   Link #221
herbert
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Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
I do think he is guilty of not wanting Ranka to know that he was with Sheryl on purpose. He has "liar liar" written all over his face and body language. How could we say he doesn't care about what Ranka thinks when he's looking like that?
He looks feeling awkward to me. Ranka asks a question he is least expecting and least liking. He's just caught off guard. No one says he doesn't care Ranka in general. But in this case, he was alone or not; he was with a guy or a girl; the girl was Sheryl or female student A; all of these have nothing to do with Ranka in his opinion. Why does he need to care Ranka in this case? He doesn't have a reason to. And none of Ranka's business is just not how Alto thinks in his own standpoint, but also Alto thinks how Ranka would take from her standpoint. If he is really aware Ranka's crush on him, he'd run away faster than a rabbit. Big brother is looking at him.
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Old 2008-06-15, 21:36   Link #222
cerrian
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Originally Posted by ani_d View Post

... About Alto, he also has a sense of justice and gets really carried away for someone else's sake. When he called Sheryl unprofessional for leaving her fans to fend for themselves, I just realized that he was criticizing her from a professional's standpoint since he was one. Lastly, when inspired or driven, Alto tends to push himself to the limit regardless of the consequences.

For Sheryl, I think she needs to fix her relationship with her fans more. In episode 7, she cried in front of them and was moved by the amount of support, but it's not easy to forget that these are also the same fans whom she left nonchalantly to look after themselves during the Vajra attack in episode 1. She doesn't need to learn love from just Alto. What about her billions of fans who truly love her to pieces?
It makes no sense to slam Sheryl and praise Alto for how they conducted themselves during the evacuation in ep 1. If anything the reverse should happen, we should be praising Sheryl for following the instructions of her military liaison and leaving the scene of the concert without inciting panic among her fans. Alto should be criticized for "sightseeing" and interfering in a military engagement which contributed to the untimely death of Gilliam.

Sheryl calling Alto a "child" was right on the mark when he criticized her for leaving her fans to fend for themselves. Sheryl acted professionally while Alto actions were reckless and inresponsible. Sheryl has neither the emergency response training nor the authority to direct civilians in times of emergencies. By staying at the concert, she would become a liability to her fans who need to disperse as soon as possible and head to emergency shelters instead of being clustered up in a very open and very unprotected area. In addition, she would have put the fleets' moral at risk had she died or been seriously injured in the attack. Therefore the correct course of action for Sheryl is to follow the instructions of her military liaison.
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Old 2008-06-15, 21:59   Link #223
Tak
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^ And to echo that, Alto's 'sense' of justice at that time led to his recklessness. Nothing more. What could he do? We know what happened after he visited the battlefield, he was shot down. That he survived was pure luck, nothing more. Justice or not, it was an extremely stupid thing to do. He accomplished absolutely nothing productive other than becoming a liability.

Sheryl was right.

Likewise, what could Sheryl do. Her presence amongst her fans would have put them all at risk in the attack, since everyone would look up to her even if she had absolutely no idea how to handle an emergency situation. That she left quietly and quickly proved to be the best course of action for the well-being of everyone who attended her concert.

Of course, was it not for Alto's stupidity, we probably wouldn't have a show.

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Old 2008-06-15, 23:42   Link #224
ani_d
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herbert
Why does he need to care Ranka in this case? He doesn't have a reason to. And none of Ranka's business is just not how Alto thinks in his own standpoint, but also Alto thinks how Ranka would take from her standpoint. If he is really aware Ranka's crush on him, he'd run away faster than a rabbit. Big brother is looking at him.
That's what I want to know. Why did he feel the need to wear a guilty liar face when he doesn't really have a reason to? It really isn't Ranka's business. It's like he felt guilty that he didn't want to let Ranka know he was with Sheryl.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cerrian
It makes no sense to slam Sheryl and praise Alto for how they conducted themselves during the evacuation in ep 1. If anything the reverse should happen, we should be praising Sheryl for following the instructions of her military liaison and leaving the scene of the concert without inciting panic among her fans. Alto should be criticized for "sightseeing" and interfering in a military engagement which contributed to the untimely death of Gilliam.

Sheryl calling Alto a "child" was right on the mark when he criticized her for leaving her fans to fend for themselves. Sheryl acted professionally while Alto actions were reckless and inresponsible. Sheryl has neither the emergency response training nor the authority to direct civilians in times of emergencies. By staying at the concert, she would become a liability to her fans who need to disperse as soon as possible and head to emergency shelters instead of being clustered up in a very open and very unprotected area. In addition, she would have put the fleets' moral at risk had she died or been seriously injured in the attack. Therefore the correct course of action for Sheryl is to follow the instructions of her military liaison.
I praised Alto's reckless sense of justice because I always think it's the thought that counts regardless of how things would've ended up unlike with Sheryl.

I'm not really expecting her to pull an Alto since she obviously couldn't. I just find it inappropriate that she wasn't even fazed when Alto told her that her fans hadn't completely evacuated yet. She looked like she didn't really care. Any change of reaction from her, any hint or whatever, that she actually cared about the welfare of the people who came to see her would've kept me from nitpicking this. Instead, she even criticized Alto for showing any concerns towards the matter when it should be her that should feel even just a tiny guilt here. No guilt. Okay, so she's Sheryl Nome. She has more privilege to live than the others? That's more than enough to make her feel guilty about her VIP treatment here. I think any normal person would reality check after having a hysterical someone scream at you like that.

Just a short scene of her asking for a simple confirmation or a follow up from the military or Cathy that the people are properly being evacuated (and not trampling each other down to survive) would've been a good action but nada.
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Old 2008-06-16, 00:13   Link #225
ickem
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Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
That's what I want to know. Why did he feel the need to wear a guilty liar face when he doesn't really have a reason to? It really isn't Ranka's business. It's like he felt guilty that he didn't want to let Ranka know he was with Sheryl.
No, there was no guilt in his expression or in his words. There was just the impression that he didn't really want to get into it so he took the most convenient route to move away from that line of conversation. As has been said by others over and over, guys do not like to say more words than necessary to end topics they have no wish to discuss. (I think there was actually a study done that showed that men tended to say less than was necessary while women tended to go into detail when asked the same questions.) It wasn't so much that he didn't want her to know, it was more like he didn't feel like she needed to know. Big difference. Another reason I really like the characterizations in Frontier.

Quote:
I praised Alto's reckless sense of justice because I always think it's the thought that counts regardless of how things would've ended up unlike with Sheryl.
Contrary to popular belief results matter much more than intention when it is about things like this. Alto went into a battle with absolutely no tools to help the situation. He was wearing an Ex-Gear which wasn't even a military model so there was nothing he could have done had Gilliam not died so conveniently and left a functioning VF-25 there for the taking.

Quote:
I'm not really expecting her to pull an Alto since she obviously couldn't. I just find it inappropriate that she wasn't even fazed when Alto told her that her fans hadn't completely evacuated yet. She looked like she didn't really care. Any change of reaction from her, any hint or whatever, that she actually cared about the welfare of the people who came to see her would've kept me from nitpicking this. Instead, she even criticized Alto for showing any concerns towards the matter when it should be her that should feel even just a tiny guilt here. No guilt. Okay, so she's Sheryl Nome. She has more privilege to live than the others? That's more than enough to make her feel guilty about her VIP treatment here. I think any normal person would reality check after having a hysterical someone scream at you like that.

Just a short scene of her asking for a simple confirmation or a follow up from the military or Cathy that the people are properly being evacuated would've been a good action but nada.
Alto was hot-headed and rash while Sheryl was calm and collected considering they were being attacked. What is there for her to feel guilty about? She would simply get in the way if she stayed since she has no training to handle these types of situations. She told Alto what she was doing, she was leaving it to the professionals. She expected that the pros would deal with the evacuation in the appropriate manner so she just shut up and followed Cathy's direction after the initial desire to continue with the concert. Sheryl seems like a pragmatist and probably feels that there is no point in worrying about things she has no control over so she just deals with the only thing that she does have control over, herself. And I doubt that Sheryl believes she has any more of a right to survive than anyone else, but she is a person who will struggle to survive and those are the people who usually do survive.
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Old 2008-06-16, 00:33   Link #226
herbert
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Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
That's what I want to know. Why did he feel the need to wear a guilty liar face when he doesn't really have a reason to? It really isn't Ranka's business. It's like he felt guilty that he didn't want to let Ranka know he was with Sheryl.
I guess I need go back to rewatch this scene. I am under impression he is caught off guard by an unwelcomed question which he doesn't want to give an honest answer in general.

Perhaps he has used this new memory together with a relative older one yesterday night.

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Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
I praised Alto's reckless sense of justice because I always think it's the thought that counts regardless of how things would've ended up unlike with Sheryl.
I'm not really expecting her to pull an Alto since she obviously couldn't. I just find it inappropriate that she wasn't even fazed when Alto told her that her fans hadn't completely evacuated yet. She looked like she didn't really care. Any change of reaction from her, any hint or whatever, that she actually cared about the welfare of the people who came to see her would've kept me from nitpicking this. Instead, she even criticized Alto for showing any concerns towards the matter when it should be her that should feel even just a tiny guilt here. No guilt. Okay, so she's Sheryl Nome. She has more privilege to live than the others? That's more than enough to make her feel guilty about her VIP treatment here. I think any normal person would reality check after having a hysterical someone scream at you like that.

Just a short scene of her asking for a simple confirmation or a follow up from the military or Cathy that the people are properly being evacuated (and not trampling each other down to survive) would've been a good action but nada.
If you mean she doesn't behave like a heroine of the show, I'm with you because it's one of the reasons why I like her.

But contrary to what you believe you have seen, she cares a lot. Just she sees nothing she can do to be helpful so she holds herself. Sheryl in business mode never let her emotion get better of her easily. Without a outward expression of caring is not equal to not caring or caring less. In this case, she understands the situation and does the best the situation calls for. She is not a merciless girl. You can see her mood is certainly low when she comments Alto as a "stupid kid." However I see, I can see she criticizes Alto for "showing any concerns towards the matter," instead she criticizes Alto for not understanding the situation and the limit of an individual's power in this situation.
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Old 2008-06-16, 01:12   Link #227
Swampstorm
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Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
Yes it was a shock to her that he didn't want to share information with her. But motives behind this are a mystery. She took it in a negative way but he might not have meant it as such. He might have just wanted to not make her jealous not hide facts about himself from her. Her inability to question him about his past is definitely a flaw for her but its something he has to overcome. This is very likely do to her shyness or naivety in matters of love but this shouldn't cheapen her feelings for him.
I think that the confusion that some people had with that scene from the start is that they automatically associate it with the standard "infidelity" scene. Suddenly, Ranka appears to become the suspicious girlfriend, and Alto appears to become the unfaithful boyfriend who was hiding the fact that he was with another girl.

But the problem is that they aren't dating in the first place, and Alto doesn't normally sugarcoat his words to begin with. So even were he to think that Ranka had a crush on him, I don't think he would tiptoe around it just to avoid offending Ranka. (Setting aside the fact that were to have Alto believed that Ranka had a crush on him, it would raise all sorts of questions about the possibility of Alto leading Ranka on...)

I'm not saying that Ranka's lack of knowledge about Alto is a flaw in itself. Rather, I'm pointing out that she is possessive about Alto without really knowing anything about him to begin with. That's what makes it a crush.

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Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
The fact is he never had the goal to pilot an SMS until he met and saved Ranka. He might have been interested in them but he was more focused on his current job. While I have clearly said the she's not the only reason she specifically pilots. She became a reason. He shown when the Vajra attacked when he was out practicing in his VF he had a flashback of Ranka and he went in to attack it. This doesn't necessary mean romance as I never implied but its a good basis for possible feelings. Normally you want to protect and fight for the people you care the most about.
Someone much more observant than myself managed to catch something that should resolve this debate once and for all.

If you look at episode two, Alto tells Ozma that he wants to sortie with the rest of SMS after he is brought over to describe how Guilliam died. This is after meeting both Sheryl and Ranka once. He had no knowledge of the Vajra, or Ranka's past at the time. Alto's decision to pilot is his own.

One thing worth noting is that when Alto sees the destruction that has resulted from the attack after returning alone to the scene of the incident, he vomited. So I suspect that the aspect of the incident that moved him the most was the life that he didn't save, rather than the one that he did.

And no, wanting to protect someone from harm isn't a basis for a romantic relationship. Those sorts of feelings develop from actually getting to know the person in question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
While I agree pairing Alto with Sheryl would be the far easier opinion for the writers I don't see this is a foregone conclusion. Have you thought that Sheryl might be the one mistaking friendship for love? She's never had real friends so Alto is a breath of fresh air. Someone who is not overcome by her fame. Someone who she can talk too without holding back.
I don't think that Sheryl mistakes their friendship for love. They've dated, and discussed their interests, hopes, and fears. Sheryl enjoys bantering with him and playing around with him, and Alto, for all his sternness, can't help but let slip the occasional smile at her antics or show admiration for her determination. In each other, they've found kindred spirts, and that common ground forms the basis of their friendship.

From that, though, Sheryl's feelings have slowly begun to intensify. She feels more and more drawn to spend time with him, and she goes out of her way to learn more about him and look out for him. With these growing feelings, she's started to try to figure out the nature of their relationship, as can be seen in Sheryl and Alto's kiss in episode ten. Once Alto and Sheryl both know where the other stands, their relationship will either change or remain the same based on that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stray View Post
Anyway, so far Ranka is both the most "mature" of the 3 (although emotionally healthy might be a better way to put it), and probably the most "immature" (inexperienced?).
That post-traumatic stress and repression surrounding Ranka's past doesn't really strike me as emotionally healthy, actually. But I suspect that the issue with your statement is just a matter of finding the right words. Were you trying to get at a different point?

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Originally Posted by stray View Post
Plus, she's the only one we have a real narrative insight to (aside from Sheryl's blog). She was there for both the kiss on the cheek, as well as Sheryl stealing a kiss on the movie set; and for all intents and purposes both scenes really took place from her point of view. A few other key scenes did also; Sheryl's breakdown on stage... I can't think of any more offhand. She seems to get hurt, or discouraged rather than jealous, but whether it's "love" or not she looks up to both Alto, and Sheryl. I guess Ranka could still turn into a yanderekko... but as of episode 10 she seems to be the only one who's acknowledged how she feels about the other 2, and in a way... where she fits in. Realistically, though, I can't see her backing down.
The narrator of a scene is not necessarily its focal point. The Macross Zero movie in episode ten is a case in point; the movie is told from Mao's perspective (given a limited availability of information, no doubt). The difference between this version and the original is simply a shift in narration; in a sense, we move from the "first person" to the "third person". That doesn't change Shin and Sara's roles in the story, however.

Now to make matters even more confusing, sometimes the 'narrator' is chosen to act as a foil to the protagonist and to portray them as a legend. A classic example is Dr. Watson for the Sherlock Holmes stories (sadly, while there are plenty of other examples out there, the alternatives that immediately spring to mind are MGS 2 and FF 12 ). This setup runs completely opposite to the usual one in which the foil's strengths allow for the exploration of the protagonist's weaknesses. As such, it can be tough to figure out who is acting as a foil for whom.

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Originally Posted by lone_wolf View Post
Despite the fact that she mentions her dieting quite often, her entry about her nightmare was sad actually...the more I read her blog, I can't help but wonder if her vulnerability will be her impending doom or something and she'll end up on the dark side or something. Or perhaps I'm reading too much into that particular entry...*shrugs*
That nightmare could be flashbacks from her childhood trauma. Is that Ozma?

Quote:
Originally Posted by herbert View Post
I can agree Sheryl is confident and arrogant but these are not baseless confidence or arrogance. She has built confidence through hardworking and arrogance on perfectionism. The fact is that she is the best and she knows it so she behaves in a way that she believes necessary to maintain her status. She does treat Alto and gang like trash but Alto also proves her insight.
These are good points.

But while she may come across as arrogant, she pulls it off in a slightly self-depreciating way. If you take Sheryl's remarks to the director about using her song for the movie, she initially pretends as if she's indignant, and then switches gears and tells him that she knows that the song is unsuitable for the movie. There's a fair bit of this in the blog entries as well; she opens with an outrageous statement, and then retracts it and says how she really feels. It seems like she's concious of her tendancy to come across as arrogant, and actively tries to deflate herself. She's surprisingly grounded, for one who exudes an air of such confidence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
About Alto, he also has a sense of justice and gets really carried away for someone else's sake. When he called Sheryl unprofessional for leaving her fans to fend for themselves, I just realized that he was criticizing her from a professional's standpoint since he was one. Lastly, when inspired or driven, Alto tends to push himself to the limit regardless of the consequences.
Alto wasn't a professional at the time. He was just a brash student without any actual combat experience. To the best of everyone's knowledge, he was also a guy who couldn't complete a corkscrew without endangering the people around him. So it's natural that his competence would be called into question.

Alto's heart is in the right place, but strictly speaking, his behavior was foolhardy. While that impulsiveness has lead Alto to perform a number of heroic acts, many of them have been extremely dangerous. As Michael himself points out when Alto is thinking about joining SMS, there may very well come a time when Alto's actions could either lead to the death of a fellow pilot, if not himself. But he's still in the process of maturing, just like everyone else. Give him some time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
For Sheryl, I think she needs to fix her relationship with her fans more. In episode 7, she cried in front of them and was moved by the amount of support, but it's not easy to forget that these are also the same fans whom she left nonchalantly to look after themselves during the Vajra attack in episode 1.
As Sheryl points out in episode six, it's Alto's job to pilot, and it's her job to sing. Sheryl didn't want to leave that stage; it was Cathy who dragged her off. But while Sheryl doesn't like it, she understands why it's necessary. It isn't within her ability to protect the people at that time - that's a job for the professionals. The best that a civilian without speaker pods can do is to evacuate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
Okay, so she's Sheryl Nome. She has more privilege to live than the others?
Apparently, Sheryl Nome, who evacuated the building at 19:58 in episode one, has less of a privilege to live than these people, who evacuated at 17:35 in episode one:


Or this girl, who also evacuated at 17:35:


Of course, we're not here to pass moral judgements on the characters, but rather to discuss why they have such great chemistry with each other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
She doesn't need to learn love from just Alto. What about her billions of fans who truly love her to pieces? All those emotions matter and should have enough meaning for her as much as the person who doesn't treat her as Sheryl Nome.
What Sheryl's fans love is the image that she's created. None of them see the lonely girl who stands behind that image and gives it a voice. And it's that poor girl who needs love the most of all.

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Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
I read the translation in her blog saying she gave an autograph to a ten year old but said that she wouldn't do it again. What about those other Sherrified lil kiddos? She'll break their lil hearts? =/ Seriously, she needs to get down her almighty horse and acknowledge her fans more--more than she's doing right now. She needs to realize in the future--if ever that kind of depression hits her--that she's not alone with or without Alto.
Don't get so upset. It's not like lil Ranka won't get an autograph.

The thing that I love about that entry is that it shows the depth of her character. Being asked for your autograph is a mark of fame, and it's very easy for someone to give it out for the benefit of their own ego, rather than for the person whom they are signing it for. Sheryl instead approaches it from the viewpoint of her fans: what can that specific fan benefit out of it? As a result, she doesn't give out autographs simply for the sake of giving them out.

Also, note the seriousness with which she approaches a seemingly mundane request by a fan. Not only did take the time to find out the entire story from the boy, but she poured her heart into it, treating it as a protective charm for the boy's sister.

The fact that Sheryl gives so much individual attention to the fans that she meets shows how deep her need for interpersonal bonds is. The 'fans' are not an abstract concept so much as they are a collection of individuals with specific needs that Sheryl tries reach out to. Unfortunately, with stardom being the tenuous thing that it is, this sort of bond depends on her ability to entertain people on a moment by moment basis. So while such a relationship allows her an outlet to express her kindness for others, it is very limited in the sort of emotional nourishment that it affords her return.

The statements regarding other young Sheryl-s out there further reinforce the fact that her childhood was not a pleasant one, and demonstrates a genuine concern to protect others from a similar fate.
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Old 2008-06-16, 01:38   Link #228
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Originally Posted by Swampstorm View Post
That nightmare could be flashbacks from her childhood trauma. Is that Ozma?

Hmmm....good point. I feel like she's this walking time bomb. I'm just getting these bad vibes with her as the series progresses (this almost reminds me of Ayano from Soreyuke! Uchuusenkan Yamamoto Yohko TV)LOL.

Oh Ozma? Actually I'm not quite sure if the drawing is Ozma but it would be hilarious if it was. Ranka seems to doodle often


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Old 2008-06-16, 02:03   Link #229
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Originally Posted by herbert View Post
@ justinstrife & Tak
I'd like save your and Slick_rick's time. Here is her reply when last time I tried to tell her Alto doesn't tell Ranka the whole thing because it's none of her business. I was left speechless last time, I'd like to see how you guys handle it.
I think Slick_Rick isn't your normal guy. He must be open about everything. If someone asks him a question, he must always tell them the truth, and always tell them more information beyond the answer to that specific question. That's the only thing I can think of. I discussed this with a friend of mine tonight who has watched the series on his own, and with me, and he feels that Alto lied because he didn't want anyone to know that he and Sheryl were out doing stuff. More as a protection for Sheryl I think. He'll never post on suki, so not much chance of getting a fully detailed explanation from him.

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Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
Wow, detailed character analysis. It really is better to see to see the story more if you lined up all the characters in front. You might want to add Ranka's effect on the Vajra since I think that will play a huge influence on her and her own future.
I appreciate you not ripping my head off on my incomplete character analysis. Trust me, I was expecting extreme criticisms for that post, and am thankful everyone is saving me from a royal beat down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ani_D
Besides, Alto also looked awkward when Ranka asked him why he was with Sheryl. That was the second time he looked fishy in front of Ranka. When he was talking to Ranka on the phone, he never mentioned he was doing a job with Sheryl. If it wasn't a big deal, then why didn't he just tell her? Geez. Anyway, in episode 13, I have a feeling we'll see Ranka confront Alto about this. We'll see if Alto really cares about what Ranka thinks of him and Sheryl contrary to what others perceive. Then we can finally put this issue at rest.
If you go back and look at the scene when she's asking him the questions, you can't see his face or where he's looking when she asks him if he's alone. So we don't know how he looked, or where he was looking when he answered "yeah". All we can hear, is his voice, which is almost typical Alto neutral tone. Maybe the director did this on purpose to tease the viewers, as he does so well when we try and figure this guy out.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ani_D
I am definitely interested. Thank you soo much. Silly question. What is 'hetare'?
I had this question too.

Quote:
blah blah blah
(just needed a break for another rant and rave)

Sitting down tonight and discussing the show with my friend, we both feel like the interactions between Alto and Sheryl for a good portion of their scenes, are more adult-like. They not only look more like adults, but in many ways, act more mature, and we believe it shows in their conversations. Also, Alto seems to do certain things for Sheryl, that he doesn't have to do. i.e....

Taking Sheryl to the Zentran farm and mall, going to visit her personally to give her the Earring before going off into battle(he never even goes to see Ranka or even tell her he's leaving), when he saves her after she leaps off the school building's roof, he stops and faces a sunset so she can watch it. She didn't ask for it, it's just something he did. I haven't seen him actively do things for Ranka, or seeking her out(beyond she got suspended and everyone is looking for her so he has to try and help find her too). This could all very well change during the next 10 episodes, but I just see the situations, and the conversations are vastly different with Alto and these two girls. Unless Ranka starts getting some 1 on 1 time with Alto, that's in a more adult fashion, it won't be a true love triangle.

Last edited by justinstrife; 2008-06-16 at 02:13.
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Old 2008-06-16, 02:31   Link #230
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I had this question too.

Oh sorry....I should have been clear.

It typically means to have like really rotten luck or not being able to do things right . It's like bad things just follow you around. In Ranka's case, the incident with that Arowana fish and then there was that time that she hit her head on the microphone during the Miss Macross contest, then there was Ranka getting lost on her way to school...it's stuff like that, where it tends to point that Ranka is hetare ( or へたれ)


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Old 2008-06-16, 02:36   Link #231
justinstrife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lone_wolf View Post
Oh sorry....I should have been clear.

It typically means to have like really rotten luck or not being able to do things right . It's like bad things just follow you around. In Ranka's case, the incident with that Arowana fish and then there was that time that she hit her head on the microphone during the Miss Macross contest, then there was Ranka getting lost on her way to school...it's stuff like that, where it tends to point that Ranka is hetare ( or へたれ)


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Old 2008-06-16, 02:39   Link #232
Westlo
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Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
For Sheryl, I think she needs to fix her relationship with her fans more. In episode 7, she cried in front of them and was moved by the amount of support, but it's not easy to forget that these are also the same fans whom she left nonchalantly to look after themselves during the Vajra attack in episode 1.
Obama or McCain are making a speech at a rally, terrorist threat is called in and it's real, Secret Service evacuate them before they can say anything. You, me and everyone knows this will happen if that occurred and we all know they would not have a choice about it. Now as silly as it sounds to us in the Macross world Idols like Minmei and Sheryl are held up in that regard. You do remember Cathy saying that if something happened to Sheryl it would cause a diplomatic incident don't you? Heck even back at the height of Michael "King of Pop" Jackson's popularity if some lax security in some backwater country got him killed we all know it would have caused a diplomatic incident and massive outrage from fans. From the Frontier security staff POV there was no question as to what to do, they get her off stage and out of there ASAP whether she wanted to or not.

Sheryl actually wanted to stay and perform for her fans which is just as stupid as her staying there and telling her fans what to do when she hasn't the slightest idea in the first place, but it shows her heart is in the right place. She realized the situation later on and went along with the security staff who were doing their job. Blaming Sheryl for that is silly and if this is large reason you prefer Ranka to her you need to re access your reasons. Personally I thought Alto was a complete idiot in that situation and was probably taking out his frustration that he couldn't do fuck all on the closest person. Alto isn't exactly the sharpest knife in the draw as his clueless interactions with Ranka and Sheryl have shown as well as his "I'm gonna charge this Varja with a knife" incident in episode 4.

EDIT -

You might like the manga version of these events better...



But in the same chapter Alto admits he can fall in love when looking at Sheryl... and personally I think if I pretended the anime never existed Sheryl is clearly going to win based on the manga events. Has a great impression of Sheryl at first, clearly inspired by Sherl's destiny speech, No Aimo hill scene, denies he's going out with Ranka when she's right next to him, completely shafts Ranka in the Bye Bye Sheryl events, states I'm coming back to Frontier while looking at Sheryl's earring etc.

Last edited by Westlo; 2008-06-16 at 03:12.
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Old 2008-06-16, 03:25   Link #233
herbert
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
EDIT -

You might like the manga version of these events better...



But in the same chapter Alto admits he can fall in love when looking at Sheryl... and personally I think if I pretended the anime never existed Sheryl is clearly going to win based on the manga events.
You must be kidding. When does Alto admit such a thing?

I prefer anime to manga. Manga is too plain that kill speculations. However, that may be because I have a gut feeling that Ranka never has a chance. Even the highly anticipated ep 13 won't turn the tide. I feel Ranka will try to get in between Sheryl and Alto, but at end she will grow out of her crush on Alto.
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Old 2008-06-16, 03:33   Link #234
justinstrife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
But in the same chapter Alto admits he can fall in love when looking at Sheryl... and personally I think if I pretended the anime never existed Sheryl is clearly going to win based on the manga events. Has a great impression of Sheryl at first, clearly inspired by Sherl's destiny speech, No Aimo hill scene, denies he's going out with Ranka when she's right next to him, completely shafts Ranka in the Bye Bye Sheryl events, states I'm coming back to Frontier while looking at Sheryl's earring etc.
Ranka fans better hope the anime deviates from the manga then...
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Old 2008-06-16, 07:56   Link #235
CaptGloval
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I just realized that for a romance thread, there's not much love in here. Things got hot some posts back, good thing it cooled down now. Consider me one shell-shocked n00b who witnessed a battle in this major shipping war.
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Old 2008-06-16, 08:02   Link #236
Westlo
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That was just a skirmish, wait till Alto recognizes his feelings for one girl, than for the other, and this thread should be world war 3 in between 24 and 25.
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Old 2008-06-16, 10:49   Link #237
justinstrife
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Originally Posted by CaptGloval View Post
I just realized that for a romance thread, there's not much love in here. Things got hot some posts back, good thing it cooled down now. Consider me one shell-shocked n00b who witnessed a battle in this major shipping war.
Good thing you weren't around and in the Shuffle sub section. The action there would put every warring conflict to shame. I think the Forum even had a melt-down at one point and everything was lost.

A casualty of us fanboys.
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Old 2008-06-16, 21:29   Link #238
ani_d
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ickem
No, there was no guilt in his expression or in his words. There was just the impression that he didn't really want to get into it so he took the most convenient route to move away from that line of conversation. As has been said by others over and over, guys do not like to say more words than necessary to end topics they have no wish to discuss. (I think there was actually a study done that showed that men tended to say less than was necessary while women tended to go into detail when asked the same questions.) It wasn't so much that he didn't want her to know, it was more like he didn't feel like she needed to know. Big difference. Another reason I really like the characterizations in Frontier.
Check out 7:41 episode 6--Guilty. Lying. Face. lol Alto can act, if he feels that Ranka really doesn't matter enough to know, he can lie as casually as everyone does. It will come naturally. Seeing his emotions resurfacing so clearly, he certainly is a bad liar for an actor. ^__^

Besides, the root of the matter of all this is about Ranka seeing Alto and Sheryl together, and here we have Alto showing a dishonest expression when she asked him about it. If you consider what's going on in the scene and not ignore the first 5 episodes, I think it was so obvious that Alto looked uncomfortable enough about telling Ranka he was at the Zentran mall too. We all know we are watching anime and not real people with emotions more complex than Alto. His awkward greeting towards Ranka in episode 10 also supports this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife
If you go back and look at the scene when she's asking him the questions, you can't see his face or where he's looking when she asks him if he's alone. So we don't know how he looked, or where he was looking when he answered "yeah". All we can hear, is his voice, which is almost typical Alto neutral tone. Maybe the director did this on purpose to tease the viewers, as he does so well when we try and figure this guy out.
Alto was looking away from Ranka the whole time she was asking him about it. I rewatched the scene around 7:59. From a dishonest look back to a smiling face, he went ahead and changed the topic. I honestly can't see that as anything as not guilty. Even Mikhail thinks so. On another note, Alto had two tickets with him for a Sheryl concert. How he did that, I don't know, but I say he really was trying to compensate beforehand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampstorm
What Sheryl's fans love is the image that she's created. None of them see the lonely girl who stands behind that image and gives it a voice. And it's that poor girl who needs love the most of all.
I think you're trying to romanticize Sheryl's loneliness too much This 'loneliness' wasn't even given focus in the show and 98% of the time, she's oozing with victoriousness over everyone. She was alone when she was a kid. She loves the memory of her mom. She wants to see what school life is--though all she's been doing is promoting. =/ She's been with Grace all this time. However, where did it say that she's actually feeling lonely about what she has right now? People just assumed that she wasn't enjoying her golden life based on those things, but storywise, she loves where she's at right now. There are no hints of a depressed Sheryl being alienated by stardom.

If fans love the image that she created and not the "real" her, then that would mean that the feelings she put in her songs are fake too and also not the "real" her. Just as Ranka keeps getting labeled as a spoiled brat for not treasuring what she has, the same can also be said for Sheryl for not treasuring what she has IF we say only Alto can fill the void in her superstar life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampstorm
Also, note the seriousness with which she approaches a seemingly mundane request by a fan. Not only did take the time to find out the entire story from the boy, but she poured her heart into it, treating it as a protective charm for the boy's sister.
I never criticized Sheryl about her treatment of this very very lucky ten year old boy. What I'm criticizing is the fact that she's only willing to do it to only one. Why can't she give special treatment to everyone as much as possible? That's not really a hard thing to do. It makes it look like her generosity comes at a price and people should be grateful if they come upon it. Hmm, actually, it is like that. As I said, she should treat her fans equally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo
Blaming Sheryl for that is silly and if this is large reason you prefer Ranka to her you need to re access your reasons.
I preferred Ranka over Sheryl the first time I saw Ranka worship her. Her arrogance just made it worse.

To tell the truth, I'm actually glad Kawamori made her look like a snob in this scene because if she became reckless like Alto and got carried away for her fans' sake, then the scenes following this episode and the next wouldn't be more Alto and Ranka-centric lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo
But in the same chapter Alto admits he can fall in love when looking at Sheryl... and personally I think if I pretended the anime never existed Sheryl is clearly going to win based on the manga events.
What? Yeah right

Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife
A casualty of us fanboys.
And I thought fangirls are something to be feared.

Last edited by ani_d; 2008-06-16 at 22:01.
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Old 2008-06-16, 22:12   Link #239
ickem
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Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
Check out 7:41 episode 6--Guilty. Lying. Face. lol Alto can act, if he feels that Ranka really doesn't matter enough to know, he can lie as casually as everyone does. It will come naturally. Seeing his emotions resurfacing so clearly, he certainly is a bad liar for an actor. ^__^

Besides, the root of the matter of all this is about Ranka seeing Alto and Sheryl together, and here we have Alto showing a dishonest expression when she asked him about it. If you consider what's going on in the scene and not ignore the first 5 episodes, I think it was so obvious that Alto looked uncomfortable enough about telling Ranka he was at the Zentran mall too. We all know we are watching anime and not real people with emotions more complex than Alto. His awkward greeting towards Ranka in episode 10 also supports this.
OK I just rewatched the part you keep bring up several times just to see if I remembered it wrong and I didn't remember it wrong. I see nothing to do with guilt in that scene. The only thing of note is Alto quickly moving the conversation away from the topic of the mall. He just has no desire to talk about the rest of his escapades in the mall. He goes from telling her that he was at the mall to saying she was pretty impressive. To me the awkward greeting in 10 was because he just didn't feel like he had to say anything to Ranka and was caught off guard by Sheryl's command.
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Old 2008-06-16, 22:26   Link #240
herbert
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Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
Alto was looking away from Ranka the whole time she was asking him about it.
Correction: he is looking away from Ranka the whole time they are talking about yesterday at Folmo Mall. Remember Alto is the one bringing up the topic. He moves his glance away when he says "I was there too. It's great you got good response." Unless he is guilty for being with Sheryl, otherwise his not-look-at-Ranka-when-talk has nothing to do with feeling guilty. Come on, admit it. He is not a liar, but a prophet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
She wants to see what school life is--though all she's been doing is promoting.
You must be kidding. Sheryl is always very serious to her decisions. If you haven't read those spoiler, you may read it now.

Spoiler:



Little bit off-topic.

What is the new tags? Shipping wars is OK but what is up with the Queen Sheryl? We need Loli Ranka and Princess Alto to balance it out, or a new kind of war is coming.
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Last edited by herbert; 2008-06-16 at 23:20.
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