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View Poll Results: Potential Pairing - Multiple Choice Option
Alto x VF 171 32 12.31%
Ozma x Bobby 13 5.00%
Ranka x Sheryl 42 16.15%
Sheryl x Alto 199 76.54%
Yasaburo x Alto 5 1.92%
Ranka x Ai-kun 38 14.62%
Alto x Klan 14 5.38%
Ranka x Alto 54 20.77%
Ranka x Brera 37 14.23%
Klan x Michael 101 38.85%
Ozma x Cathy 111 42.69%
Luca x Nanase 41 15.77%
Wilder x Monica 41 15.77%
Alto x VF25 37 14.23%
Yasaburo x Alto's father 10 3.85%
Alto x Brera 18 6.92%
Grace x Ranka 12 4.62%
Nanase x Ranka 21 8.08%
Sheryl x Klan 24 9.23%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 260. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-12-12, 05:55   Link #3661
mechabao
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To be honest, I've never been a shipper. But all the AxR shippers who kept denying the romantic development between Alto and Sheryl in eps 16 - 24 drove me up the wall. It's why I was wishing that Kawamori would do something in ep 25 that would seal the SxA deal to finally, finally break their Dokun Dokun Kawaii Delusion Field. Ditto for the whole "he saluted both girls" thing. Only someone who can't tell left from right and up from down would still say that.
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Old 2008-12-12, 05:59   Link #3662
NighFC
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Originally Posted by mechabao View Post
To be honest, I've never been a shipper. But all the AxR shippers who kept denying the romantic development between Alto and Sheryl in eps 16 - 24 drove me up the wall. It's why I was wishing that Kawamori would do something in ep 25 that would seal the SxA deal to finally, finally break their Dokun Dokun Kawaii Delusion Field. Ditto for the whole "he saluted both girls" thing. Only someone who can't tell left from right and up from down would still say that.
Sure, there was romantic development between Alto x Sheryl. But the seeds of Alto x Ranka were planted long before Alto even took Sheryl seriously.

I wont even start on the "he saluted both girls" thing. Because due to specific animation flaws of proportion and depth (either intended or unintended), you can't put together a definite argument.
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Old 2008-12-12, 06:02   Link #3663
mechabao
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So tell me, did the Alto x Ranka seeds germinate? Or did they rot beneath the earth?
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Old 2008-12-12, 06:04   Link #3664
NighFC
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Originally Posted by mechabao View Post
So tell me, did the Alto x Ranka seeds germinate? Or did they rot beneath the earth?
If you can tell me Alto x Sheryl flew for a fact, I'll conceded because I was under the impression that Alto chose both of them.

Either way its hard to tell, the series ended too short.
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Old 2008-12-12, 06:10   Link #3665
mechabao
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Didn't I just mention something about eps 17 - 24? Maybe you should start there.
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Old 2008-12-12, 06:12   Link #3666
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Seeds were planted 12-15... which is before 17-24... and if I'm not mistaken, didn't the series end at 25?
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Old 2008-12-12, 06:14   Link #3667
cheesie
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Originally Posted by mechabao View Post
To be honest, I've never been a shipper. But all the AxR shippers who kept denying the romantic development between Alto and Sheryl in eps 16 - 24 drove me up the wall.
That's nothing compared to the yaoi hints between mechabao x twilighthack.

Anyway, this is a bit late, but welcome to the AS Macross forums, Dex-kun and NightFC. It's been ages since I've last seen a Ranka shipper venture into this place but in any case, have fun and do your best to hold against the crew of Skull Fairy here.

And because I'm curious, I'll be back later to see how much blood have been spilled.
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Old 2008-12-12, 06:18   Link #3668
mechabao
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@crisis
That's a bad cheesie! BAD!

@Night FC
Again, eps 17 - 24 show Sheryl's and Alto's relationship blossoming. The seeds for their relationship was planted way, way back to at least the Star Date episode. Try again.
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Old 2008-12-12, 06:18   Link #3669
Westlo
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that's nothing compared to the yaoi hints between mechabao x twilighthack.
hahahahahaha, so true.
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Old 2008-12-12, 06:28   Link #3670
Urei
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Seeds were planted 12-15...
Wouldn't it be a bother to expand this statement a little? I don't mean to be rude or anything but I'd like to hear a Ranka fans opinion on that. There is a thin possibility my judgement might be clouded by my preferences
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Old 2008-12-12, 06:32   Link #3671
NighFC
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Well, if you want to go back that far, there's always Ep1-2 as far as planted seeds. I think its getting a bit ridiculous though.

In any case, Alto didn't take Sheryl seriously until what... ep 18-19? Heck, he didn't take anything truly seriously until ep 23. Also, I've already made a comment about the conversation from my own thoughts. Anyone who calls me delusional on that is clearly turning a blind eye to my reasoning.

Anyways, the point I'm trying to make is that Alto x Ranka can and could have happened since Alto did have feelings towards her at a time and he knew she had feelings for him. This is what a lot of Sheryl ships seem to ignore, forget, or whatever. Though, an Alto x Shery lx Ranka harem ending is entirely more plausible than any single pairing there is.

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Originally Posted by Urei View Post
Wouldn't it be a bother to expand this statement a little? I don't mean to be rude or anything but I'd like to hear a Ranka fans opinion on that. There is a thin possibility my judgement might be clouded by my preferences
Most certainly. Note, I don't mean seeds as in development.. but rather, seeds for future possibilities.

12- Alto takes notice of Ranka in a true different light.
13- Alto and Ranka spend some alone time together.
14- Alto concentrates on Ranka.
15- Alto and Ranka fumble into an "odd" situation, duet. (though admittedly it could go both ways there)

Perhaps it was a bit of a stretch to include 14-15 in my original statement, but there was a definite connection in 12-13.
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Old 2008-12-12, 06:46   Link #3672
mechabao
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Yeah it could have happened if only the writers and Kawamori hadn't screwed up. It would have made things more interesting, and given the AxR shippers some live ammunition to fight the shipper wars.
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Old 2008-12-12, 06:53   Link #3673
Westlo
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Of course there was seeds planted in 12-13, pity Kawamori forgot to water them and than gave access to his Alto Hime garden to Ohnogi along with the keys to Sheryl.
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Old 2008-12-12, 06:54   Link #3674
NighFC
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Originally Posted by mechabao View Post
Yeah it could have happened if only the writers and Kawamori hadn't screwed up. It would have made things more interesting, and given the AxR shippers some live ammunition to fight the shipper wars.
Interestingly enough, the same thing could be said on both sides of the camp. I could have definitely seen the series being able to last at least another 3-6 episodes by fleshing out the story and fixing up plot holes.

Damn you Kawamori! Give us our movie now.

In the end, both sides were not finalized... thus, we are left with what was have. Sadly while I can agree with Kawamori wanting a harem ending, I don't particularly accept it.

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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Of course there was seeds planted in 12-13, pity Kawamori forgot to water them and than gave access to his Alto Hime garden to Ohnogi along with the keys to Sheryl.
Ohnogi re-watered the seeds in ep23... Kawamori put miracle grow on them in ep25. So still in the game.

And as another note, please don't go on to tell me that ep25 just throws out everything. In contrast, while it does make serious errors on some points, it fits in perfectly with the Alto's character and does take into account Alto's past feelings.
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Old 2008-12-12, 06:58   Link #3675
Urei
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Originally Posted by NighFC View Post

Anyways, the point I'm trying to make is that Alto x Ranka can and could have happened since Alto did have feelings towards her at a time and he knew she had feelings for him. This is what a lot of Sheryl ships seem to ignore, forget, or whatever. Though, an Alto x Shery lx Ranka harem ending is entirely more plausible than any single pairing there is.
I'll add that Alto for the 99.99% of the series was totally oblivious to any form of 'feelings' anyone had for him. Michael said it a number of times. Alto-hime was unaware of his surroundings. My little rant there


Quote:
Originally Posted by NighFC View Post
Most certainly. Note, I don't mean seeds as in development.. but rather, seeds for future possibilities.

12- Alto takes notice of Ranka in a true different light.
13- Alto and Ranka spend some alone time together.
14- Alto concentrates on Ranka.
15- Alto and Ranka fumble into an "odd" situation, duet. (though admittedly it could go both ways there)

Perhaps it was a bit of a stretch to include 14-15 in my original statement, but there was a definite connection in 12-13.
Well, I can't deny that there was development there and I won't say anything as for the most part I think so myself as well. it has to be a triangle, no? The problem is the volume
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Old 2008-12-12, 06:59   Link #3676
Natsuki Hyuga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisis View Post
That's nothing compared to the yaoi hints between mechabao x twilighthack.
... Oh. My. God. This is a truth! Now I see the two of them in a different light!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by NighFC View Post
On the other hand, "Pure love" is akin to being struck by cupids arrow. It's hard to believe and accept because it rarely happens IRL. But guess what? As much as its hard to believe, it does happen on occasions.
Happens on occasion IRL, yes, but do mind that lots of the relationship that began by that way cannot be sustained for a long time unless both side try to know each other better. Occasionally, the pure love trick ends in the "dating phase", since both sides feel like they are "distant".

Quote:
It's true that Alto x Sheryl is a sort of developed love, whereas Alto x Ranka is supposed to be sort of a "hit and click" sort of romance. There was, is, and could have had chemistry if Kawamori had taken a different path. Alto x Ranka is just as alive to me as Alto x Sheryl due to its possibilities.
And it's unfortunate that since the relationship development got stalled after the seeds were planted, like you said, in Episode 12+13, and a bit growing in Episode 14 and 15. Episode 16 shows how, let's say, "regressing" the relationship is since with Alto, Ranka will have a hard time to grow and try to do things in the way she should not regret, that is to decide with her own will.
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Old 2008-12-12, 07:08   Link #3677
cheesie
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@crisis
That's a bad cheesie! BAD!
I-It's true, I even liked it when you *** and he did *** and you ***-ed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightFC
Anyways, the point I'm trying to make is that Alto x Ranka can and could have happened since Alto did have feelings towards her at a time and he knew she had feelings for him.
Alto and Ranka's relationship was a fascinating mess of complexity, it was given a chance to briefly grow in the midpoint of the series, and you could see this clearly in Episode 13. Alto and Ranka went smoothly from there despite both of them wanting different things from each other, but there were three key elements that contributed to the reasons why this relationship was snuffed out later in the series : 1) Ranka's ignorance, in that she was unknowingly held captive by her unhealthy dependence on Alto (clearer in Episode 17 "As long as Alto thinks it's good, then it's good for me!") and also in many ways and 2) Alto was really running away, so when he was forced to do some soul-searching, he ended up re-examining his priorities (this ties in a lot with why he drew closer to Ranka and 3) Sheryl, naturally, but that's another story. That's not to say Alto and Ranka doesn't have a ground, the ending shows favor on Ranka as well, it seems, but as far as their relationship throughout the journey goes, it's tragic that things have ended how they did.

If these things matter to you, then you might find it interesting to note that some insiders' views are in general agreement with the unhealthy nature of this relationship as shown in the series, from Megumi, and Kawamori, which Takky translated... I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natsuki_Hyuga
... Oh. My. God. This is a truth! Now I see the two of them in a different light!!
My beloved shipmate, as captain, I give you permission to spread your fangirly love everywhere in my absence.

Anyway, I'll be running along and let you shippers play~
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Old 2008-12-12, 07:16   Link #3678
NighFC
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I'll add that Alto for the 99.99% of the series was totally oblivious to any form of 'feelings' anyone had for him. Michael said it a number of times. Alto-hime was unaware of his surroundings. My little rant there
Well he's oblivious because he made himself stay that way. We got a clear picture of his head about how he didn't want to see things. That gives us the inkling that he did in fact know about them... just chose not to act either way (at least in the case with Ranka).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natsuki Hyuga View Post
Happens on occasion IRL, yes, but do mind that lots of the relationship that began by that way cannot be sustained for a long time unless both side try to know each other better. Occasionally, the pure love trick ends in the "dating phase", since both sides feel like they are "distant".

And it's unfortunate that since the relationship development got stalled after the seeds were planted, like you said, in Episode 12+13, and a bit growing in Episode 14 and 15. Episode 16 shows how, let's say, "regressing" the relationship is since with Alto, Ranka will have a hard time to grow and try to do things in the way she should not regret, that is to decide with her own will.
That's true really...

But at the end of Ep21 (night scene at the park), you could see the Alto x Ranka chemistry, unhindered... but that was effectively cut short because Ohnogi sent Ranka off to do soul-searching with Ai-kun and Brera.

Now because MF ended so abruptly, we don't see what happened after Alto was flying down to them. But I highly doubt that Sheryl "had it in the bag" as so many claim it to have been.
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Old 2008-12-12, 07:44   Link #3679
NighFC
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Originally Posted by crisis View Post
Alto and Ranka's relationship was a fascinating mess of complexity, it was given a chance to briefly grow in the midpoint of the series, and you could see this clearly in Episode 13. Alto and Ranka went smoothly from there despite both of them wanting different things from each other, but there were three key elements that contributed to the reasons why this relationship was snuffed out later in the series : 1) Ranka's ignorance, in that she was unknowingly held captive by her unhealthy dependence on Alto (clearer in Episode 17 "As long as Alto thinks it's good, then it's good for me!") and also in many ways and 2) Alto was really running away, so when he was forced to do some soul-searching, he ended up re-examining his priorities (this ties in a lot with why he drew closer to Ranka and 3) Sheryl, naturally, but that's another story. That's not to say Alto and Ranka doesn't have a ground, the ending shows favor on Ranka as well, it seems, but as far as their relationship throughout the journey goes, it's tragic that things have ended how they did.

If these things matter to you, then you might find it interesting to note that some insiders' views are in general agreement with the unhealthy nature of this relationship as shown in the series, from Megumi, and Kawamori, which Takky translated... I think.
You bring up really good points crisis and your analysis of the pairing is quite exquisite. If I may, I'll respond to each reason you've said that Alto x Ranka were snuffed out and at the end add a little comment about the insiders comment.

1) I will admit, Ranka was ignorant and dependent. But truth be told everyone has their own character flaws. Just because a person a character flaws, that doesn't mean they don't deserve a chance at happiness also. Because of that I wouldn't say it snuffed out her chances completely.

Also, nowhere in the show did Alto take either of these traits and hold them against her.

2) Yes I agree. I've already said that Alto was running away by using Ranka as an excuse. But at the end of Ep23 when he confessed, he also confessed that he just "didn't want to see things". Now because of this, when he said, "its all over now"... wouldn't that mean he's not going to run away and that he's not going to use Ranka as an excuse (he goes on to say he'll protect Frontier). Also, doesn't that by default mean that he's going to "see" things he didn't want to?

If he's not running away and he's confronting them, there's a good chance things could still happen.

Besides, I'd think its similar to Sheryl's situation in a way. From "protect" mode to "genuine" mode. The wishy washy Alto in Ep21 shows just how he did really care about her.

3) Yes, Sheryl is another story. Again, I don't deny its development. But Alto x Ranka still has its possibilities due to past developments.

Insider comments: Yes, it is probably unhealthy... but no one penalizes a loving spouse because they're dependent on the other for support and help.
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Old 2008-12-12, 08:25   Link #3680
kujoe
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Originally Posted by NighFC View Post
But at the end of Ep21 (night scene at the park), you could see the Alto x Ranka chemistry, unhindered... but that was effectively cut short because Ohnogi sent Ranka off to do soul-searching with Ai-kun and Brera.
I would hardly call that chemistry. I do agree that there has been certain developments regarding Alto and Ranka, but this scene isn't what you think it is.

Well, it's still under the branch of character development, but this is more about Ranka realizing that she cannot reach Alto with her own emotions. And she comes to realize, that she has to leave for her own reasons as well.


The thing that has made me wonder here, is people placing importance on whose seeds were planted first, forgetting the fact that stories aren't static pieces of work. The same goes with characters. Of course, you can always can count on certain conventions of anime to pull through, but Macross doesn't really follow the "first girl" rule. So really... we already know that both girls play a significant role in Alto's life, but pointing out who comes first is meaningless in light of what this discussion is all about.

The "game of love" is always about the people who end up together in the end.
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