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View Poll Results: Potential Pairing - Multiple Choice Option
Alto x VF 171 32 12.31%
Ozma x Bobby 13 5.00%
Ranka x Sheryl 42 16.15%
Sheryl x Alto 199 76.54%
Yasaburo x Alto 5 1.92%
Ranka x Ai-kun 38 14.62%
Alto x Klan 14 5.38%
Ranka x Alto 54 20.77%
Ranka x Brera 37 14.23%
Klan x Michael 101 38.85%
Ozma x Cathy 111 42.69%
Luca x Nanase 41 15.77%
Wilder x Monica 41 15.77%
Alto x VF25 37 14.23%
Yasaburo x Alto's father 10 3.85%
Alto x Brera 18 6.92%
Grace x Ranka 12 4.62%
Nanase x Ranka 21 8.08%
Sheryl x Klan 24 9.23%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 260. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-07-22, 12:50   Link #1041
ickem
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While her appearance has something to do the my AltoxRanka aversion, it is how she acts that really turns me off. She comes off as someone just hitting puberty no matter what her age is. Her interactions with Alto seem like those of a fangirl replete with the requisite fangirl squeals and screams. And, of course, we cannot forget her mannerisms, which make her seem even younger. I would have fewer problems with how she looks if she acted more mature.
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Old 2008-07-22, 12:53   Link #1042
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by zalem View Post
Not this argument again. Let us all just agree to disagree on it. If people feel uncomfortable with the RankaxAlto relationship because of it looking like lolicon, nothing anyone says is going to change their mind. Besides, that might be one reason but not the sole reason for disliking the couple. I mean aging her up would take away the discomfort one gets looking at them, but I personally probably still wouldn't like the couple. They need more development.
And that's a fine argument for not liking the pairing. But her looks? Shallow. Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with being shallow, I suppose.
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Originally Posted by Prov1 View Post
ranka looks like she's 8...
Why not push the absurdity all the way and say she looks like an embryo in her mother's womb?

Quote:
I wonder if you would go out with some1 that looks like their 8.
I'm shallow. Looks do matter to me, and eight years old are hardly my ideal of beauty. Besides, like Michel, I wouldn't like the negative attention it'd bring. But if someone doesn't care about those, more power to him.
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Originally Posted by Prov1 View Post
her flatness makes her look 8
Ah, yes. How nice for all the little-endowed women out there.
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Old 2008-07-22, 13:07   Link #1043
Darial
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
She's 16. She may very well be one of those "eternal lolis", who look 12 at age 12, 16, or 27. And then what?
LOL somehow I don't think an "eternal loli" exists anywhere outside anime, Not even in Japan. When I was living in Japan, I once dated this petite girl who was 5' 2" and very energetic. At 29, she could easily pass for someone in her early 20s (in fact, I thought she was in her early/mid 20s until she showed me her driver's license one day). However, she never looked like someone under 20.

I have also known girls in their early 20s that could pass for late teens with the right hairstyle and make-up, but that is very temporary. Trust me, as women age, it shows.

The bottom line is Ranka's current character design looks like 12 (at least to me), and that's a total turn-off as far as her being a plausable romantic interest IMHO. We can just agree to disagree on this.
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Old 2008-07-22, 13:45   Link #1044
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I'm not gonna carry on the discussion or anything, though i'd just like to point out that Ranka does look her age. Flat chest has nothing to do with it, and that's the only think you people seem to be mentioning. She's small in height --- that's not a 'loli design', not at all. I've seen some character designs for 16 year olds that are a lot worse.

See now i wonder if you people are saying all this because she's up against Sheryl. I mean just compare the two in terms of looks, and there you have it.
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Old 2008-07-22, 14:50   Link #1045
zalem
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
And that's a fine argument for not liking the pairing. But her looks? Shallow. Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with being shallow, I suppose.
I suppose, but as I said before the reaction to the perceived lolicon is rather automatic. More of a gut reaction than rational one. It can be overridden probably, but only if there is something there to make one actually like the pairing. But you are right if it's the sole reason for not liking a pairing perhaps that is a bit unfair.

Looks aside, both pairings need work and development. Alto is still such a dunce in the romance department. There is virtually no real romance between Alto and Sheryl at the moment and only just recently has there been some development of romance between Ranka and Alto. There is a lot of work to be done. But I do prefer the overall interaction between Sheryl and Alto to the interaction between Ranka and Alto. That's part of the reason I am more partial to Sheryl and Alto. Even if Alto is not good enough for Sheryl. Hehehe...
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Old 2008-07-22, 14:58   Link #1046
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Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
See now i wonder if you people are saying all this because she's up against Sheryl. I mean just compare the two in terms of looks, and there you have it.
It's not just comparing Ranka with Sheryl do you see an age/maturity difference, it is literally the entire cast compared against Ranka that keeps emphasizing the point. Even Luca, who we acknowledge as the show's only shouta, makes Ranka appear as a kid several years younger than him. Against the backdrop of young adults and working professionals, Ranka's character design and her mannerisms make her the loli of the show.

Look at her clothing, accessories, hair styles, how she displays her excitement, her character movements, facial expressions, the fangs...all of that screams loli. The only time Ranka didn't appear loli was when she was doing the photoshoot and when she was in the flight suit.
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Old 2008-07-22, 15:01   Link #1047
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I think both Ranka and Luca look like they are 12. Hey, they should hook up! Just kidding...I actually wouldn't wish Luca on poor Ranka.

But yeah, to me she just seems really young. Her body, her face, her voice, the way she dresses, the way she acts sometimes, etc.
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Old 2008-07-22, 15:11   Link #1048
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Why are you guys so critical of Ranka? This is just wrong.

It's not Ranka's fault she's underdeveloped. I repeat. It is not her fault. She also wasn't designed for lolicons. Sure, that would make a great joke, but do you absolutely think that's Kawamori's big reason as to why he wanted Ranka's design to look like that? A moe-loli jailbait for lolicons and pedobears? As far as professionalism is concerned, that is not his main goal. It can't be.

If you check his latest Beat Magazine interview, it's very apparent Kawamori wanted to make Ranka a down to Earth character. One that's not drop dead gorgeous--like those generic Macross heroines fanboys kept drooling on--but at the same time, pretty in her own way. One that can relate to other teenage girls who has the same insecurities. Isn't this so common for any average 15 years old out there? I don't know about other girls but not everyone is born as sexy as Sheryl. This is also not true for just asian girls, there are other female girls in different races that are just underdeveloped contrary to their wishes. I mean, even Ranka's best friend Nanase is more voluptuous than her. Check out Ranka in Miss Macross dressing room and the insecurity she felt later on when she hid beside the stairs. If it wasn't for Alto, she would back down. Ranka's character is one of the epitome of normalcy Kawamori wanted Macross Frontier's character to have.

Even her personality is very relatable to teenagers her age out there. Allow me to rant since we're on topic.

1. Ranka's no good. (Typical)
2. Useless when put in a battlefield--an absolute screamer. (Feel free to criticize her once you've proven you can take on a Vajra by your own hand. ^_^)
3. Fangirls over her idol. (Typical)
4. Immature. (Who isn't/wasn't?)
5. Gets completely motivated by her crush. (Typical)
6. Lacks self-esteem. (Typical)
7. Rebels (Ty.pi.cal)

What else? Can't live without her cellphone? lol Ranka's character is your average high schooler thrown into a Vajra battlefield unaware of her own potential. (I can say the same for Alto but that's not the point here.) I believe this is also why Ranka is so prominent in the storyline.

If there's a message to the teens that Kawamori wanted to express through Ranka's character, it's having a good heart. She may be completely full of flaws next to Sheryl, but Alto put it very clearly in episode 13. It's her spirit that's admirable. You don't need to be someone like Sheryl to be able to grab your dreams and the man you love. You just have to have the right attitude and courage to pursue what you want to pursue. Watching episodes 1-15, look at how far Ranka's character has matured. If you ask me, anyone who's willing to risk her life recklessly for the man she loves deserves that person. People who hate Ranka for her weak self are more or less hating a part of themselves Ranka portrays oh so clearly.

Should RankaxAlto happen, it's not because it was forced, it's because Ranka earned him and you got half of the series backing that up. Alto on the other hand deserves Ranka's affection as well. All those support and life-risking he did for her sake did not go to waste.

As for any commonplace vibe I got from Sheryl, she just started on the wrong side of the hood for me. She was shown human after 5 episodes which is a little too late for me to favor her.
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Old 2008-07-22, 15:27   Link #1049
Anh_Minh
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Well, I wouldn't say she looks 12, but she does look a bit younger than 16. But hey, it's not like it's all that rare to look younger than you are.

The problem is that not just Sheryl, but Alto, Michel, Nanase - they all look older than their supposed 17 years of age. And Klan - I don't know how old she is, but in giant form, she looks like she's in her early-to-mid twenties.
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Old 2008-07-22, 15:36   Link #1050
cerrian
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Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
It's not Ranka's fault she's underdeveloped. I repeat. It is not her fault. She also wasn't designed for lolicons.
...
If you check his latest Beat Magazine interview, it's very apparent Kawamori wanted to make Ranka a down to Earth character. One that's not drop dead gorgeous--like those generic Macross heroines fanboys kept drooling on--but at the same time, pretty in her own way. One that can relate to other teenage girls who has the same insecurities.
Despite his intentions, Kawamori and team screwed up here because Ranka is neither normal nor down to Earth. The most normal characters are Nanase (sans boobs) and the bridge bunnies. Even then they make Ranka look like a little girl. We have very little insight on how normal 16 year old girls typically behave on Macross Frontier. Aside from Ranka, Nanase, and a brief scene with the 2 girls in the locker room (ep 5) we have very little to establish a bar with. That said, I'm extremely hesitant to pull from real life to fill in those blanks and so I have to work with what we got. And what we have is a 16 year old girl who is framed against a cast and setting that's on a whole other maturity level.
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Old 2008-07-22, 15:50   Link #1051
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Really I'm ok with Ranka's character as long as she keeps showing growth. The concert on Gallia 4 and the duet were both great signs of her starting to come out of her shell on her own.
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Old 2008-07-22, 15:57   Link #1052
zalem
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Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
Why are you guys so critical of Ranka? This is just wrong.
We aren't talking about whether she is weak or strong at the moment so I'm not sure why you are bringing that up in your post. We're just talking about how she looks compared to everyone else. Unless you are just bringing that up because of posts people made in the past? I don't think anyone is denying that Ranka has experienced some growth as a character and will probably continue to do so.

I also don't think of who "deserves" Alto more. Both Sheryl and Ranka are good people. Both deserve love. I look at who I think has the best chemistry with him. For me it is Sheryl and Alto.
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Old 2008-07-22, 15:58   Link #1053
ani_d
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Originally Posted by cerrian View Post
Despite his intentions, Kawamori and team screwed up here because Ranka is neither normal nor down to Earth.
Mind listing them all down the way I did? All the things about her that you see as neither normal nor down to earth. From how I can see it, she's just as normal as any real life teenagers out there.

You are trying to compare Ranka with the Bridge bunnies who have very little focus in the show. I'm not sure about your ideal normal standard, but Ranka, Nanase, Alto, Michael, Luca are portrayed as typical teenagers. They are maturing--especially Ranka and Alto. This war is taking a toll on them and it's making them or breaking them. Besides, I don't even think teenagers have uniform attitudes and uniform aging clocks.

*EDITs

Quote:
Originally Posted by zalem
We're just talking about how she looks compared to everyone else.
Which is why I said it is not her fault she looks younger than her age. Kawamori made her underdeveloped compared to the rest of the cast because girls like her are typical. He made it so that teenage girls who share the same insecurity/issues can relate to her. Besides, Luca has the same problem. It's just how teenagers are.
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Old 2008-07-22, 15:59   Link #1054
Tak
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Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
Why are you guys so critical of Ranka? This is just wrong.
Beep.

While some of us are talking about how she looks 'physically', we were really critiquing how her relationship with Alto is not a very appealing one. It has little to do with her character development.

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Old 2008-07-22, 16:05   Link #1055
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
She's 16. She may very well be one of those "eternal lolis", who look 12 at age 12, 16, or 27. And then what?
Nobody, except people with a genetic disorder ( which does exist, btw ) eternally look 12 years old. People may remain small all their life, but their appearance still ages.

Ranka as a 16 year old girl is completely unbelievable. I dont really want to post all the screens again where she looks between 10 to 12 years old, but in almost all shots she does. Only exceptions were a short scene in the plane at the end of episode 12 and a bit the song-battle in 15. Ah, and the kiss in episode 10, of course, but there they only showed the faces of Alto and Ranka.

And, yes, before you begin again ( we already had this discussion ), I also think she is not the right person for Alto for a mature relationship, because of her emotional depency issues.

A main theme of the show is that people should not depend on the preconceptions of others to be who they want to be, that people should express their individuality and uniqueness.

Ranka, OTOH, is making herself very much dependent on Altos aproval..

I think ( and hope ) that I am reading Kawamoris storyline correctly, because that is what makes me believe that in the end Sheryl and Alto will be together, because they leave the other the liberty of being themselves.

Well, and that they complement each other in lots of other ways, but I am getting away from my main point. Anyway, sleepytime.
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Old 2008-07-22, 16:12   Link #1056
zalem
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Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
Which is why I said it is not her fault she looks younger than her age. Kawamori made her underdeveloped compared to the rest of the cast because girls like her are typical. He made it so that teenage girls who share the same insecurity/issues can relate to her. Besides, Luca has the same problem. It's just how teenagers are.
I'm skeptical and still think it was at least partially done because of the current moe-loli fad rampant in the anime scene. That's very pessimistic of me, I know, but ultimately it's about making money and following "hot" trends and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if that was part of the reason for the design. Perhaps I should have more faith in Kawamori though.

He did want her to be "normal" but I don't see why normal must equal loli-moe.

Anyway, most of your post didn't address this point though. It seemed to address her character's supposed weakness/insecurities, which we weren't really talking about. Not that you aren't free to rant about it anyway....
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Old 2008-07-22, 17:32   Link #1057
Shiroth
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Originally Posted by cerrian View Post
It's not just comparing Ranka with Sheryl do you see an age/maturity difference, it is literally the entire cast compared against Ranka that keeps emphasizing the point. Even Luca, who we acknowledge as the show's only shouta, makes Ranka appear as a kid several years younger than him. Against the backdrop of young adults and working professionals, Ranka's character design and her mannerisms make her the loli of the show.
Alright i'll give you that one. It's just in some scenes, she looks her age (not on stage though, hell no). & i'd have to disagree with Luca --- he dresses and looks like a 12 year old.

I guess it's just when i see her by herself she looks her age, and sometimes (depending) around other people. I still don't agree with the fact that she looks 12. Maybe 14 pushing 15.
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Old 2008-07-22, 18:24   Link #1058
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
So the only thing you have against Ranka x Alto is her looks? Isn't that rather shallow?
She looks 12, she acts 12, she dresses 12, her thought processes are that of a 12 year old. She's 16 in age only. My co-worker's 12 year old who comes into work all the time during break, acts and looks the same age wise as Ranka does. Throw a green haired wig on her, and have her do the dance routine of Ranka, and I'd swear they were the same person. It's not just looks, it's the whole package. I've already argued this before and shouldn't have to repeat myself.
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Old 2008-07-22, 19:11   Link #1059
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She looks 12, she acts 12, she dresses 12, her thought processes are that of a 12 year old. She's 16 in age only. My co-worker's 12 year old who comes into work all the time during break, acts and looks the same age wise as Ranka does. Throw a green haired wig on her, and have her do the dance routine of Ranka, and I'd swear they were the same person. It's not just looks, it's the whole package. I've already argued this before and shouldn't have to repeat myself.
does he also like guys that look like girls?
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Old 2008-07-22, 21:21   Link #1060
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does he also like guys that look like girls?
I think Alto secretly has a thing for Michael. Hence why he's always competitive against him.
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