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Notices

View Poll Results: Potential Pairing - Multiple Choice Option
Alto x VF 171 32 12.31%
Ozma x Bobby 13 5.00%
Ranka x Sheryl 42 16.15%
Sheryl x Alto 199 76.54%
Yasaburo x Alto 5 1.92%
Ranka x Ai-kun 38 14.62%
Alto x Klan 14 5.38%
Ranka x Alto 54 20.77%
Ranka x Brera 37 14.23%
Klan x Michael 101 38.85%
Ozma x Cathy 111 42.69%
Luca x Nanase 41 15.77%
Wilder x Monica 41 15.77%
Alto x VF25 37 14.23%
Yasaburo x Alto's father 10 3.85%
Alto x Brera 18 6.92%
Grace x Ranka 12 4.62%
Nanase x Ranka 21 8.08%
Sheryl x Klan 24 9.23%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 260. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-07-24, 00:17   Link #1101
nines
I much prefer the 2d
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
In war, every dirty little trick counts, ok?

- Tak
Ah ok then, why did you use two commas in your sentance? ^.^ every trick counts hehe xD
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Old 2008-07-24, 00:22   Link #1102
ani_d
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Kudos for taking the time listing down your gist towards Ranka. Here's the list of Ranka's actions that you think unrealistic/irrational. I bolded my reply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cerrian View Post

1. Participating in Miss Macross pageant.

[I fail to see how this is unrealistic American idol, anyone? With the right inspiration, a teenager can get motivated. The unrealistic part is how she got into the pageant since judging by her looks, she's so out of league. However, that is beyond her control and has nothing to do with her attitude. It's on the writer's. If anything, her loss in the competition is realistic enough. Things don't always go the way you want them to.]

2. How Ranka handled her fight with Ozma.

[The only unrealistic part here are the flying knife and pots etc. If Ozma got hit by a casserole square in the face in real life, the first thing Cathy will do once she finds him would be to send him to the hospital for a possible broken nose lol This is anime though, that part was put there for comedic purposes. Ranka's reaction towards Ozma's comment was a typical reaction. She got mad at him for scolding her and putting her down, then ran out of the house. It was a typical brother-sister banter no matter how I look at it.]

4. Ranka sets up Alto to lie about being alone at the mall.

[Set him up to lie? ^^ Alto can tell her he had a date with Sheryl and Ranka can't do anything to him. Nothing was holding Alto back from telling her the truth. Ranka's lack of courage to openly ask Alto if he was with Sheryl is another typical behavior. There's nothing irrational or unrealistic about a person failing to be straighforward--most especially if that someone is the person you fancy and you're the shy type. The whole scene between Ranka and Alto is not something that happens rarely. People--not just teenagers--can even relate to this and can empathize with Ranka.]

7. How she handled Sheryl's and Luca's knowledge of Alto's past.

[Ranka excused herself from Luca and Sheryl because she felt disappointed of how little she knew of Alto. What is supposed to be the normal reaction here? She probably thinks they're close, but in reality, she doesn't know a thing about him. She's not going to jump in joy for this. She's bound to get disappointed by this news, and that's what happened. It's not like Alto is some random person to her. She likes Alto. Again, I honestly don't see why this is unrealistic or irrational or even unpractical for a teenager.]

8. Accepting the role of Mao

[I'm totally at a lost at how this is unrealistic for someone her age. She accepted the role of Mao after the saonome kiss. Like Bobby said, Ranka has never fallen in love before. As a teenager having witnessed the guy she likes kissing someone, is she not supposed to have the mental capacity to put two and two together and relate Mao's feelings to hers? It was a very effective push. The insecurity and self-doubt she felt when she first turned down the role was a very typical behavior teens tend to have.]

9. Birthday present - cookies

[lol baking someone cookies is honestly old fashioned, but I hear they do this in Japan. It's again, a typical expected behavior of an innocent teenage girl. It's like knitting scarf for their crushes, or worse, a sweater. One thing though, a person wouldn't put so much effort for someone they don't have strong feelings for =__= Just goes to show, how much Alto means to Ranka.]

10. Defusing the Galia IV hostage crisis; ignoring Ozma's pleas.

[I see this as one of the key things Kawamori want to make a point in Ranka's character. It's easy to say "I'll take a hundred bullets for my crush" but when you're actually in that situation, you'll most likely back down. It's human nature, noone can blame you. Just the fact that Ranka is willing to go to Galia 4 in a heartbeat is what separates the average reaction to ideal. If a person is willing to go this far, then obviously, there's a strong reason compelling that person to do so. She used her brother's motto and applied it to herself. It's a transition in Ranka's character. How? By falling in love.

"If you know you're going to regret it, then give it your all and be successful." I also think she's going to regret it if she stayed being a coward teenager. This was the turning point if she were to lose Alto or not, so this scene was critical. =)

The little show she did in Galia 4 is what's unrealistic (seriously, she & michael would've been deaf by now sitting next to those sound boosters which are supposed to be loud enough for the Zentran fleet FIRING their guns to hear), but this also has nothing with her behavior.]


Quote:
Originally Posted by cerrian View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ani_d
Even her personality is very relatable to teenagers her age out there. Allow me to rant since we're on topic.

1. Ranka's no good. (Typical)
2. Useless when put in a battlefield--an absolute screamer. (Feel free to criticize her once you've proven you can take on a Vajra by your own hand. ^_^)
3. Fangirls over her idol. (Typical)
4. Immature. (Who isn't/wasn't?)
5. Gets completely motivated by her crush. (Typical)
6. Lacks self-esteem. (Typical)
7. Rebels (Ty.pi.cal)

What else? Can't live without her cellphone? lol Ranka's character is your average high schooler thrown into a Vajra battlefield unaware of her own potential. (I can say the same for Alto but that's not the point here.) I believe this is also why Ranka is so prominent in the storyline.
1. Disagree. She's bad at what? Baking? Unfounded assertion since the series has yet to show us what Ranka is bad at.

- Ranka has been saying "Someone like me" from the very start. That's already a "no good" attitude. This is not unfounded assertion. In fact, her "no good" qualities are some of the qualities I listed below. She's no good when it comes to communicating her feelings. She's no good when it comes fighting, she's no good when it comes to looks, she's no good when it comes to baking lol, she's no good in dealing with her suspension from school. The "no good" label can go on and on.

2. Disagree, not a female teenager specific trait. This one applies to all age groups and genders.

It does apply to everyone--even teenagers her age---so why are we disagreeing here?

3. Agree
4. Agree

5. Disagree, this applies to all age groups and genders, but I'll give you this one.

Same thing for here.

6. Disagree, this applies to all age groups and genders. A more appropriate trait would be the lack of direction.

Same thing for here. Teenagers have self-esteem issues. I don't see why we are disagreeing if we both agree that this also applies to teenagers. It's kind of pointless.

While lack of direction is also an appropriate trait for teenagers, lack of self-esteem relate to Ranka more and is also as valid.


7. Disagree. Unfounded assertion since Ranka has not demonstrated any rebellious actions. The closest we have is when she takes on Michael's challenge at Folmo mall.

lol Ranka ran away from home, killed her cellphone so that Ozma can't reach her, went into a brat mode all because Ozma didn't want her participating in Miss Macross. She was being limited. She was all bitter that Ozma didn't tell her that he was in the army, so she thought it's okay to be selfish too and hide things from him as payback. Is this not rebellion? A typical teenager story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cerrian View Post
For Ranka to be a "normal" teenager, the series needed to show us what life is like for the typical high school student. Unfortunately it failed to do so and now we need to pull from other animes and real life experiences to set the standard of what is a normal teenager on Frontier.
I believe MF has shown us what it's like to be a high schooler living in a fleet caught in the middle of the battle and their respective personal issues. We all know this isn't a slice of life anime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cerrian View Post
I would expect a normal teenage girl to:

1. Be a high school student.

Ranka is a high school student.

2. Have some normal friends and classmates.

Ranka has a best friend, Nanase. Alto, Luca, Michael are normal. They're normal teenagers despite their family backgrounds and pilot training. Together they're friends who will hang out together in cafes, stairways, pools, study groups etc. How normal can you get? lol You don't need to befriend the whole community to be called normal.

3. Have an after school activity (hobby, club, part-time job)

Yes, Ranka has a part-time job. Her hobby is singing and fangirling over Sheryl and wasting prepaid on her cellphone. In ep 9, she looks like she's part of a choir or something.

4. Experience love, probably for the first time.

Alto Saotome. Omniscient Bobby even said so.

5. Find direction in their life, be it university or career or something after high school.

I know for a fact it's normal to have no clue which direction you want to go in your teenage years. Ranka's desire to be a singer stems from her Aimo, Sheryl's influence, and Alto's encouragement. It's a direction that can change over time once she finds something more meaningful.

6. Behave like a teenager.

She is behaving like a teenager as I pointed up there. Just because she can be like a big burst of sunshine sometimes does not make her mentally delayed. I know you didn't say this, but I'm just saying.

7. Dress similar to other students around her.

If you're talking about fashion, I think this is more like a personal preference and it depends on the person--and in this case, the character designer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cerrian View Post
Kawamori and team totally failed at depicting Ranka as a high school student. You wouldn't know she was a high school student if she wasn't wearing a school uniform.
She was made underdeveloped because girls like her are common esp. in Japan. Y'know, 156 cm, 42 kg (Ranka's height & wt) is actually average in Asian countries. I know girls from my high school that looked as young as Miclone Klan in their 16s. Ranka has it easy. I think this is more like a culture difference more than anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cerrian View Post
How many scenes do we have of Ranka at school participating in a school activity? Practically 0. It would be a stretch but we could include her introduction to the class and Sheryl's introduction to the class and we would have 2 scenes. Ranka as a high school student is completely undeveloped.
This isn't a slice of life. Ranka's high school life is irrelevant compared to her stardom and the Vajra. Those latter two are more relevant to the plot, so of course they'll have more focus. The sense of 'normalcy' Kawamori wants to portray in Ranka's character is seen through her appearance and characteristics typical teenagers can relate to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cerrian View Post
Her choice for book bag (the VF backpack), sleeping attire (hippo-cow suit), and scarf & dress weekend attire all suggests that she's a middle school student at most. If it wasn't for the fact that Ranka wears a high school uniform and that we're told her 16th birthday is soon, we'd never know that she was approaching adulthood.
Lol, she's being criticized because of her fashion sense. Just because she has a hippo-cow suit and likes to wear a jumper does not make her less of a teenager. It's not in the looks, it's how she acts and perceives things. She gets upset once she gets groped, she blushes at a thought of a kiss, she makes this face --> *__* over Alto. She got upset when Alto offered to come with her to the bathroom like some elementary schooler. She's body conscious enough. Don't judge a book by its cover. She's an innocent teenager.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cerrian View Post
The Ranka shown to us in the last 15 episodes is a far cry of what a normal teenager in Frontier should probably be. If Kawamori and staff intended to show us that Ranka was representative of a "normal" teenager on Frontier, then I'd have to argue that they screwed up by first failing to establish what a typical teenage girl is like and then failing to show that Ranka has similar traits.
I totally disagree that Kawamori screwed up in establishing the typical teenage girl image on Ranka and I already listed them up there. For a sci-fi show trying to relate its characters to the teen audience, he did a nice job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darial
Episode 10 - 13 has basically been one big Ranka development arc, with her pulling off her Moe deathstar supermove in episode 12. I would anticipate something similiar for Sheryl between episode 18 - 23. If there is no supermove from Sheryl by episode 23, then yeah, probably Ranka X Alto is it. However, I'm keeping my fingers crossed until then
I think Sheryl's about to do an Alto attack next episode and jeopardize Ranka's love life. Isn't that a good thing? I'm pretty sure Northern Cross will have a special introduction because of it. That would suck for Ranka obviously, but she gets to spend time with Brera instead so I'll spare the empathy next time lol
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Old 2008-07-24, 00:34   Link #1103
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Well, I never expected anything Megumi x Ayato to be fruitful. It was clear to me in the beginning that Haruka was the destined one.

And I like Haruka more, so nyah.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darial View Post
As for Megumi X Ayato in Rahxephon... we all knew that was never going to happen anyway. Ahh... memories of shipper wars long ago.

What can I say, I was young(er), foolish and I really like red-heads.

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Old 2008-07-24, 01:23   Link #1104
cerrian
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I hope you're not looking to me for a rebuttal of a rebuttal, cause it ain't going to happen. 1 long ass post is enough to satisfy me for a couple of months.

But there are a couple of interesting topics I want to address:

1. Ranka's rebellious tendacies. Some would argue that her fight with Ozma was an act of teenage rebellion because he didn't want her participating in the pageant. I'd argue that it is simply a parent-child fight because the arguement is happening after the fact. They are not arguing whether or not she should compete, instead they are arguing over the fact that she got suspended. Ranka is not challenging Ozma's perceptions and expectations, she's throwing pots, pans, knives, and Minmei dolls b/c Ozma insulted her and hurt her feelings. Now if they had this arguement before the Miss Macross pageant and Ranka still went forward to compete, then I'd say that was an act of a rebellious teenager.

There is only 1 instance where Ranka rebels against someone else's preconceptions of her and that's when she takes up Michael's challenge at Folmo mall. I thought there was going to be a 2nd rebellious event based on her complaints that Ozma treats her like a child, but that act never materialized.

2. Ranka "the high school student" is a completely undeveloped character. Aside from wearing a uniform and saying "hello, I'm your fellow high school classmate" there are no other character developments to back this up. This is a real problem b/c the other 4 high school students (Nanase, Alto, Michael, and Luca) have all had their student background fleshed out. You see them participate in school activities, hang around classrooms, interact with other students (to a degree), discuss their education, etc. There wasn't a whole lot of screen time dedicated to this kind of character development but it was enough that the 3 supporting characters have a more solid foundation as high school students than the main female character. Even Sheryl, who wasn't even a student when the series started, has a more developed high school background than Ranka at this point. I find that to be a huge problem if the audience is expected to view Ranka to be of the same age and maturity level as the other teenage characters.

Last edited by cerrian; 2008-07-24 at 01:36.
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Old 2008-07-24, 02:28   Link #1105
ani_d
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I don't really care about long posts so long as I can get my point across.

Rebellion= refusal to accept some authority or code or convention.

Ozma and Ranka are brother and sister legally. This is what she did in episode 5. She went against Ozma. She rebelled. I don't think this is just an interpretation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cerrian
2. Ranka "the high school student" is a completely undeveloped character. Aside from wearing a uniform and saying "hello, I'm your fellow high school classmate" there are no other character developments to back this up.
I disagree with this, but still the point here is that Ranka's character is shown to be a normal teenager that can easily relate to teenage girls her age. If anything I said up there couldn't convince you, maybe you should just watch the first episode to see how down to earth Ranka's character was made to be. If Kawamori wanted MF's characters to appeal to teenagers, he's going to do it in the first episode and work from there. That's what he did.

I also disagree with Sheryl having a more developed high school background than Ranka. lol I mean, how did Sheryl, who never had a former high school, have a more developed high school background than Ranka? The schooling takes place offscreen. I never saw Ranka's former school, yet I have a clear idea of what kind of school it was. High school has little focus in the story simply because the plot doesn't lie in their high school life. If you look at Ranka's blog, Nanase's talking about a group study with Alto and the gang. Ranka's blog and all the random things she pours there are, sad to say, a typical teenager musing. Shallow. It's rare to see teenagers put meaningful stuffs in their journal 24/7. Atleast it's rare here in my environment.
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Old 2008-07-26, 01:06   Link #1106
Teletha
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Okay we need some episode 16 discussion.

Michael - Neutral bystander and lover of both women or blatant Ranka x Alto shipper unhappy when Sheryl's around? You decide.
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Old 2008-07-26, 01:17   Link #1107
jho
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Originally Posted by zalem View Post
Until I see evidence proving otherwise, I will continue to think it's RankaxAlto. I might be a Sheryl fan but I'm not going to believe in a SherylxAlto ending because of that. I need facts. Hopefully Kawamori will give me something soon to lead me to believe in a SherylxAlto ending. I'm not dismissing it and saying there is no chance in hell of it happening. I'm just saying at this point in time, it doesn't look like it's happening. Kawamori can easily change that in a couple episodes though. An example in another anime where I initially thought the couple didn't have a shot, but recently changed my mind would be...

Spoiler for Spoiler for ep. 15 of Code Geass R2:

So similarly, if Kawamori does a major move to develop Alto and Sheryl then I'll be more likely to believe they have a shot. But right now I'm just not seeing any major romantic vibes between the two....it's mostly the dunce Alto's fault.

Though yeah, I agree Ranka's Little Queen meter is going off. That's why I think there might be a Zero like ending instead.
Does Ep 16 help with that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teletha View Post
Okay we need some episode 16 discussion.

Michael - Neutral bystander and lover of both women or blatant Ranka x Alto shipper unhappy when Sheryl's around? You decide.
Michael is obviously neutral bystander at this point. Maybe in the past he wanted to help Ranka more, but now that he understands Sheryl's POV, for Michael it's a wash.

Btw Ani d: How many predictions have you gotten correct in relationship endings for series?

Last edited by jho; 2008-07-26 at 01:17. Reason: Bolding
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Old 2008-07-26, 01:26   Link #1108
Teletha
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ani_d thinks she got the Sheryl is a bridge bunny prediction right because Sheryl went to the bridge. That's about it.

I think Michael is about as neutral as Sheryl is going to get. Everyone else in the show obviously supports Ranka, but he at least seems to notice her feelings.

We also need to discuss Alto's reaction to Brera. Some (won't say who) are taking it as solely jealously towards his relationship with Ranka. Others, like myself, are taking it as a huge combination of things.

Re : Geass. I don't think Geass ever had the love triangle some fans think it did. C.C. was pretty much obvious from the first episode of the first season.

Episode 16... Sheryl hasn't done a super move, but for all of Ranka's super move not much has changed at all between the three of them.
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Old 2008-07-26, 02:11   Link #1109
ani_d
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jho View Post
Btw Ani d: How many predictions have you gotten correct in relationship endings for series?
You can ask Westlo. He's a big fan of my True Tears predictions it seems. lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teletha View Post
Okay we need some episode 16 discussion.

Michael - Neutral bystander and lover of both women or blatant Ranka x Alto shipper unhappy when Sheryl's around? You decide.
Wait, I have a better one.

Michael- RankaxAlto supporter but is level-headed enough to let Alto decide on his own = 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teletha
Michael obviously has supported Ranka more then Sheryl for a few reasons, he knows her better, Ozma, she's blatant with how she feels and if she's hurt and Michael picks up on that when Alto doesn't (hey! maybe they should get together!?!?), and the fact that Sheryl doesn't need his support and doesn't outwardly show she's vulnerable. But he's in no way picking sides between either one of them. I think he'd rather like it if Alto stopped being stupid, noticed both girls care for him and pick a side, any side, just stop being an idiot.
If Michael has supported Ranka more than he did Sheryl, then how is it that he's not picking sides again? =/ And I'm twisting it whenever I say he's more of a Ranka supporter than a Sheryl one? lol If Alto picked Sheryl over Ranka, I don't see Michael going all Nanase on him. I don't think he would go that far. But if Michael were to pick who to support, I do see him supporting Ranka over Sheryl since he IS closer to Ranka and he's been doing that for so many episodes now. That's my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teletha
You mention episode 13, but you took that as Michael and Sheryl having an interest in one another. Now it's something different?
Oh wow, now my liking for the MichaelxSheryl interaction is suddenly against me? From what I remember, I thought I said that Michael did tease Sheryl about Alto in 13. Is this supposed to be something I twisted again? You might want to quote a post from me saying otherwise. Though I doubt you can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teletha
Going by what you said though, considering he's teasing her about Alto in 13, right after he "set up" Alto x Ranka in episode 12 that means one of two things, he's just an asshole who wants to hurt Sheryl, who he knows cares for Alto, or he wanted Alto to go make up for the shitty way he treated Ranka and take her home while Sheryl was obviously unable to leave. He teased her because he knows she cares for Alto and nothing more. He wasn't throwing Ranka in her face. I'm not sure I'm a fan of your version of Michael.
I think everyone knows that Michael IS aware of Sheryl's feelings for Alto. He knew that since episode 8. Yet, the fact that, he volunteered to get Sheryl out of Alto's way so that Ranka and him CAN spend time together pretty much tells you where he stands. It's not like this is the only time he pushed Ranka to Alto. There were lots of instances, isn't it? And yes, Michael teased Sheryl because he knows she cares for Alto. And no, he's not an a*shole for doing so even if he chose to support Ranka. ^_^ Michael was giving her credit and praising her. It was cute. However, this doesn't really make him a neutral supporter, no matter how much you want him to be.

Seriously, how can you be a neutral when you're closer to the other side than the other?

As for the other issues like BreraxAlto jealousy etc etc...I'll leave that for next time. I'm done for tonight. -_-
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Old 2008-07-26, 10:03   Link #1110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teletha View Post
ani_d thinks she got the Sheryl is a bridge bunny prediction right because Sheryl went to the bridge. That's about it.

I think Michael is about as neutral as Sheryl is going to get. Everyone else in the show obviously supports Ranka, but he at least seems to notice her feelings.

We also need to discuss Alto's reaction to Brera. Some (won't say who) are taking it as solely jealously towards his relationship with Ranka. Others, like myself, are taking it as a huge combination of things.

Re : Geass. I don't think Geass ever had the love triangle some fans think it did. C.C. was pretty much obvious from the first episode of the first season.

Episode 16... Sheryl hasn't done a super move, but for all of Ranka's super move not much has changed at all between the three of them.
you can't say nothing has changed... After episode 15 I believe everything has changed. Sheryl is obviously gonna go full on for Alto. Ranka is probably gonna grow more distant from Alto. Brera's gonna be a barrier between them. It's Alto's choice to decide whether he's gonna pursue her or he's gonna slowly go for Sheryl. But I believe it's obvious who he likes when he's all out for Ranka trying to protect her.
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Old 2008-07-26, 12:29   Link #1111
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
Oh wow, now my liking for the MichaelxSheryl interaction is suddenly against me? From what I remember, I thought I said that Michael did tease Sheryl about Alto in 13. Is this supposed to be something I twisted again? You might want to quote a post from me saying otherwise. Though I doubt you can
You are the one who went over and beyond with all that Mikhail x Sheryl gig, not us.

Yet, with such an obvious Ranka x Berera interaction here, I have not seen you post a similar tirade about Ranka x Berera. Although as a Ranka shipper, you probably won't touch that pairing with a 10ft pole, but to the rest of us, it doesn't really help convince the rest of us that you are being objective, but someone who prefers to watch everything with shipper lenses, and nitpick everything that would otherwise affect your desired shipping arrangements.

- Tak
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Last edited by Tak; 2008-07-26 at 12:44.
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Old 2008-07-26, 12:41   Link #1112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prov1 View Post
you can't say nothing has changed... After episode 15 I believe everything has changed. Sheryl is obviously gonna go full on for Alto. Ranka is probably gonna grow more distant from Alto. Brera's gonna be a barrier between them. It's Alto's choice to decide whether he's gonna pursue her or he's gonna slowly go for Sheryl. But I believe it's obvious who he likes when he's all out for Ranka trying to protect her.
It doesn't help the fact that Ranka is younger than Sheryl, and not as capable of trying to protect herself. Also, she tends to be in danger considerably more often than Sheryl. If the roles were reversed and Sheryl was in the middle of danger every other episode, he might be more inclined to act towards her the way he does towards Ranka in battles.
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Old 2008-07-26, 13:39   Link #1113
Stretch5920
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Why would anyone want Ranka to end up with a jerk like Alto anyway? He's a dick. I'm a Ranka fan who wants her to grow on her own, it would make my day to see her realise that Alto isn't the guy she thought he was and basically dumps his ass, but too bad that won't happen like that.

I say let Brera and Ranka rekindle their sibling relationship, and Sherly and Alto can go whine about Brera and Ranka being better a pilot/singer than them together.
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Old 2008-07-26, 14:28   Link #1114
Swampstorm
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I don't quite understand the point of this debate over which couple Michael is "shipping", if any. How is that relevant?

If Ranka's got a team of people setting her up on the romantic front, and another team of people who are giving her a massive promotions blitz while trying to poison off/sabotage her competition, what exactly is Ranka doing? Aside from falling back on her innate powers, that is.

Ranka's on a very slippery slope right now. Deep down she realizes that she's selling out by serving Grace and co. (which shows in her singing of Aimo), but she doesn't have the willpower to stand up against it. Sooner or later, she's going to have to face up to that and set things right. Having all the friends in the world doesn't matter, if you're willing to let them be discarded.

You can wear the same outfits, you can deliver the same lines, but you just can't mimic strength of character. That's something Ranka's going to have to build on her own, without outside help. Then the real character development will begin.
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Old 2008-07-26, 14:39   Link #1115
Stretch5920
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampstorm View Post
Ranka's on a very slippery slope right now. Deep down she realizes that she's selling out by serving Grace and co. (which shows in her singing of Aimo), but she doesn't have the willpower to stand up against it. Sooner or later, she's going to have to face up to that and set things right. Having all the friends in the world doesn't matter, if you're willing to let them be discarded.
It's obvious Ranka doesn't feel good about it, but knowing that her singing can prevent loss of life against the Vajra is hardly something she can just turn down. She's not doing it to make money or steal Sheryl's fame.
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Old 2008-07-26, 14:40   Link #1116
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stretch5920 View Post
It's obvious Ranka doesn't feel good about it, but knowing that her singing can prevent loss of life against the Vajra is hardly something she can just turn down. She's not doing it to make money or steal Sheryl's fame.
I think Swampy's point was that with Ranka as she is right now, is she willing to remain the puppet of Grace & co. or eventually develop her own strength and her own ideas as to how her powers should be utilized.

It has nothing to do with stealing anything, really.

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Old 2008-07-26, 15:32   Link #1117
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by Swampstorm View Post
I don't quite understand the point of this debate over which couple Michael is "shipping", if any. How is that relevant?

If Ranka's got a team of people setting her up on the romantic front, and another team of people who are giving her a massive promotions blitz while trying to poison off/sabotage her competition, what exactly is Ranka doing? Aside from falling back on her innate powers, that is.

Ranka's on a very slippery slope right now. Deep down she realizes that she's selling out by serving Grace and co. (which shows in her singing of Aimo), but she doesn't have the willpower to stand up against it. Sooner or later, she's going to have to face up to that and set things right. Having all the friends in the world doesn't matter, if you're willing to let them be discarded.

You can wear the same outfits, you can deliver the same lines, but you just can't mimic strength of character. That's something Ranka's going to have to build on her own, without outside help. Then the real character development will begin.
So you're faulting Ranka for doing exactly what Sherly was doing, with the only difference being that Ranka is actually effective at it? Ranka's actually having some indecision, unlike Sheryl who had no problem whatsoever being a lapdog for Grace and the government.

Ranka's not sure what's right. The government and Grace are telling her one thing, that she's needed to protect Frontier. Everyone is cheering her on, calling her their freakin' savior. Hell, even Alto is onboard with the whole "Kill'em all! There can only be one!" crowd. The only one who's actually asked her what she wanted to do, with implied support one way or another is Ozma.

And add to that her own personal experiences with the Vajra which range from a child-hood trauma that she's told involved the complete annilation of her immediate family, and the seemingly empathetic experience she had with them while being a captive, she just doesn't know. And no one is either able or willing to help her figure it out.

Although I'm sure Alto will say or do something that's completely out of context to her current problem, such as folding a plane or yelling crazily at a fire hudrant or something. Or Sheryl will strike that same ole stupid stuck up pose of hers and say some generic inspirational line that has absolutely no real advice to it.

So she's got mixed feelings, she's not sure what's right, her loved ones are supposedly in immediate and deadly danger, and people keep telling her, cheering her in fact, that she's doing the right thing, won't give her a straight answer, or are outright lying to her.

Everybody, and I mean, everybody, on Frontier thinks the Vajra are simple monsters. Ranka's the only one with any apparent doubts, and when you're in that kind of situation, with all the glory, fame, and righteousness supposedly laid out on the path before you, you'd have to be super human or a plain idiot to turn it down.
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Old 2008-07-26, 16:10   Link #1118
Swampstorm
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I'm not talking about blame here. I'm talking about growth.

Ranka's intentions are no doubt good. The problem is that the ends don't justify the means. Elmo stood by Ranka through thick and thin. Ranka knew that it was wrong to ditch him (since she did raise the issue), but she didn't have the strength to stand up for him. Most people can see the slippery slope, but few have the strength to consistantly hold their course to the high ground. That's what strength of character is all about.

There are things that are obviously outside of her control. It would be silly to say that Ranka's allowing herself to be a lapdog for Grace any more than it would Sheryl, since even the viewers don't have a clue about what Grace's plans really are. But Ranka's been given some clear red flags, and it's going to be up to her to learn to put her foot down as things come up.

As for Ranka's sympathy for the Vajra, well... she's the only one who's ever communicated with them. So a lot rests on her ability to stand up for their sake, as well, since nobody else can. Many things hinge on Ranka's ability to develop her own individuality, since nobody else can figure this out for her.

But this comes back to the issue of guidance that I was talking about. While Ranka was never really good at making decisions on her own, she happened to stick around the right crowd, so she didn't go astray. Now she's suddenly surrounded by people whose have ill intentions for both her and her friends, so she'll definitely need to learn to make up her own mind about things. Neither Sheryl nor Alto can save her from this situation: this time, Ranka needs to save herself.

I don't doubt that she's going to grow through this. But in order to do so, she'll need to move past her supports to become her own person. That's part of growing up.
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Old 2008-07-26, 16:13   Link #1119
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I still stand by my Macross golden rule of triangles theory
(you can win the love triangle or save the galazy but not both)

however,

recently I'm starting to wonder if it might be Sheryl after all, who saves the galaxy. They're playing her to be such a disposable project and insignificant that it might actually be building her up to betray their expectations
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Old 2008-07-26, 16:24   Link #1120
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by Swampstorm View Post
Ranka's intentions are no doubt good. The problem is that the ends don't justify the means. Elmo stood by Ranka through thick and thin. Ranka knew that it was wrong to ditch Elmo (since she did raise the issue), but she didn't have the strength to stand up for him. Most people can see the slippery slope, but few people have the strength to consistantly hold their course to the high ground. That's what strength of character is all about.
It's not ends justify the means. That implies you're doing something wrong to accomplish a good deed. Ranka's being told that beyond a shadow of a doubt, she's doing the right thing. And she didn't leave Elmo, the government seperated them. Try not paying taxes sometime as a matter of principal and see how far "strength of character" gets you.

Quote:
There are things that are obviously outside of her control. It would be silly to say that Ranka's allowing herself to be a lapdog for Grace any more than it would Sheryl, since even the viewers don't have a clue about what Grace's plans really are. But Ranka's been given some clear red flags, and it's going to be up to her to learn to put her foot down.
Sheryl hasn't shown any capacity to act outside her programming beyond her selfish need to have Alto dot on her.

And what flags might those be?

Quote:
As for Ranka's sympathy for the Vajra, well... she's the only one who's ever communicated with them. So a lot rests on her ability to stand up for their sake, as well, since nobody else can. Developing Ranka's individuality is more important than ever.
She's probably the single most scared shitless by them individual in all of Frontier, and she has no one to confide in about her experiences to gain perspective because they're all basically saying she should kill the whole lot of them.

Quote:
But this comes back to the issue of guidance that I was talking about. While Ranka was never really good at making decisions on her own, she happened to stick around the right crowd, so she didn't go astray. Now she's suddenly surrounded by people whose have ill intentions for both her and her friends, so she'll definitely need to learn to make up her own mind about things. Neither Sheryl nor Alto can save her from this situation: this time, Ranka needs to save herself.
No, she's surrounded by the same people as she's always been surrounded by. They're just telling her things she's not too sure about.

Quote:
I don't doubt that she's going to grow through this. But in order to do so, she'll need to move past her supports to become her own person. That's part of growing up.
This isn't about personal growth. This is about figuring out what to do with her current circumstances. What the right thing to do is. Fact is she just doesn't know what to make of any of it, but she's told she still has to act for the sake of everyone.
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