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View Poll Results: Potential Pairing - Multiple Choice Option
Alto x VF 171 32 12.31%
Ozma x Bobby 13 5.00%
Ranka x Sheryl 42 16.15%
Sheryl x Alto 199 76.54%
Yasaburo x Alto 5 1.92%
Ranka x Ai-kun 38 14.62%
Alto x Klan 14 5.38%
Ranka x Alto 54 20.77%
Ranka x Brera 37 14.23%
Klan x Michael 101 38.85%
Ozma x Cathy 111 42.69%
Luca x Nanase 41 15.77%
Wilder x Monica 41 15.77%
Alto x VF25 37 14.23%
Yasaburo x Alto's father 10 3.85%
Alto x Brera 18 6.92%
Grace x Ranka 12 4.62%
Nanase x Ranka 21 8.08%
Sheryl x Klan 24 9.23%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 260. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-06-14, 09:57   Link #161
Tak
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Originally Posted by Tsuchiro View Post
I'm talking about right after star date and before getting the kiss.
Meh, thats because Alto shinned a lot brighter in Sheryl's eyes than her mother's earring.

- Tak
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Old 2008-06-14, 10:21   Link #162
Slick_rick
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Uh, no. His best chance of survival, if Ranka wasn't there, was to grab that VF-25 and fight the Vajra as he was right beside the VF-25. If Ranka was not there, the Vajra's attention would have been turned to him, and he was awfully close. At that range, I doubt you can escape anything fired at sub-light speed!

You said Alto backed away, I said he was scared shitless and stunned (yeah, he took half a step backward, that doesn't exactly count as 'trying to get away').

And your claim on him piloting the VF-25 due to Ranka is far more debatable. For all we know he was using her as bait! After all, she bought time for Alto to make further decisions. Had it been for anyone else taking Ranka's place, Alto would have done the same thing. Ranka's existence in that situation was not special, she was an added bonus! Forcefully associate Ranka to every major decision made by Alto when it was clear to me he would have done most of what he did with or without her is not a convincing argument.
If the Vajra turned its attention to Alto running towards it would have been foolish. It was right next to the VF until it saw Ranka and went for her. He was going to escape because it attention hadn't yet turned towards him. Yes I agree we was afraid that all the more reason to run that is until he saw Ranka in danger.

Alto was using Ranka as bait!? Lets no make Alto into some kind of ass which he definitely is not. I agree that if Tom, Dick or Harry was in place of Ranka he still would have help them. That doesn't change the fact that Tom, Dick or Harry would have been a reason he did it in the end. I'm not associate ever reason he does something to her just the one she plays a part in. Not the whole reason but still a reason. You ignoring her being a reason is pointless.



Quote:
Alto chose to go with Ozma who obviously offered to save him. Alto didn't have to, but was it not his best third choice? Between being arrested and joining the military? And I didn't say he was forced by Ozma to join the SMS, I said he chose Ozma and the SMS as his best third option. Nonetheless, he was most definitely forced by the military to be in that situation. Then he volunteered to pilot despite Ozma's protest, not because of Ranka, but because he thought he could do it and perhaps, for the pilot who died saving him. - Tak
So now you give the Pilot some credit but still ignore Ranka involvement? After Ozma saved him he didn't have to worry about the military anymore. He could just have gone home and forgot this ever happened. The problem was that he couldn't bring himself to forget about it. That because of the pilot, Ranka and his want to help. You ignore the fact that the military threat was worthless once Ozma intervened.



Quote:
Yeah, my miss, but his decision at the time still had nothing to do with Ranka either way.- Tak
I don't know how to convince you that she was at least partially responsible. I can't see how you can say that save her life, her about her past did not in some way influence his decision. When he has a flashback of her past while fighting Vajra then charging in recklessly means that in someway she had to have a part in it. But you can just go on living in denial.



Quote:
I don't know what you are watching, but I sure as heck am watching the same show as everyone else.

You said Alto was not amused by most of Sheryl's antics, which is a bit different than what you are saying now. Now you are saying something like 'Alto was not voluntary in most of Sheryl's bullies'.

Not only was Alto amused, he was friggin entertained. During 'Star Date', there were many situation where Alto could just ditch Sheryl and run, but he didn't and even took her to Folmo. I can see that he obviously enjoyed being with Sheryl. Its so obvious Alto secretly likes how Sheryl mind-phuck him. If Alto is not amused or entertained, why is he digging this 'hole' deeper? Why? Because he likes eeeeet!!!

And I will stand by what I said earlier. Alto gets a lot more out with Sheryl. There is a lot of frantic energy involved, a lot of chemistry and a lot of fun! With Ranka, its almost always one-sided. Ranka knows next to NOTHING about Alto, although that may change by episode 11, but thus far, their whole interaction had been... boring.

- Tak (Yeah, and this is a matter of opinion too, if you think otherwise, thats too bad. Like I am gonna get shovel and hammer my opinions down your throat, that'd be a waste of my valuable time)
I fail to see where a person would be amused to be forced into something. He might have made the best of the situations but that doesn't mean he was ecstatic about it. He didn't seem happy to be doing the Camera shot with her, he was forced by the SMS, he didn't seem happy to be following around on the island, once again forced by SMS. He wasn't yelling at Michael that he let Sheryl on their team in his VF in Ep9 because he was happy! Yes I see how his enjoying being with her causing him to want to avoid her. We obviously watch different shows! He doesn't dig the hole its being dug for him then he's getting thrown in!
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Old 2008-06-14, 10:24   Link #163
Westlo
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Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
I fail to see where a person would be amused to be forced into something. He might have made the best of the situations but that doesn't mean he was ecstatic about it. He didn't seem happy to be doing the Camera shot with her, he was forced by the SMS, he didn't seem happy to be following around on the island, once again forced by SMS. He wasn't yelling at Michael that he let Sheryl on their team in his VF in Ep9 because he was happy! Yes I see how his enjoying being with her causing him to want to avoid her. We obviously watch different shows! He doesn't dig the hole its being dug for him then he's getting thrown in!
Alto's a tsundere.
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Old 2008-06-14, 11:15   Link #164
cerrian
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Alto's a tsundere.
Absolutely, classic tsundere right there.

The only other character that might be tsundere as well is Cathy. It's funny because I would have thought Sheryl was going to be the tsundere character of the show, but when you look at it from the professionalism point of view the whole case for her being tsundere just falls apart.
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Old 2008-06-14, 11:15   Link #165
Slick_rick
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Alto's a tsundere.
Quite possibly. He's shown a softer side to both Ranka and Sheryl but this doesn't mean that he in anyway enjoys or is amused by any of Sheryl's escapades. This enjoyment is either not there or hidden so deep down that he choses instead to avoid getting involved with her often. This doesn't mean have fun at times with her or hates her it could just be that he's not compatible with her. We have yet, in my opinion, seen enough about Alto to say which girl he finds more ideal for himself. That a lot of people prefer Sheryl has nothing to do with him.
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Old 2008-06-14, 11:55   Link #166
Tak
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Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
If the Vajra turned its attention to Alto running towards it would have been foolish. It was right next to the VF until it saw Ranka and went for her. He was going to escape because it attention hadn't yet turned towards him. Yes I agree we was afraid that all the more reason to run that is until he saw Ranka in danger.
Uh, the case I was making went under the situation where Ranka wasn't there. Then the Vajra would have went for Alto, and Alot attempting to escape would have done him no good. As I said, its hard to outrun anything coming at you in sub-light speed. His best at survival (again, if Ranka not being there) was to hop in that VF-25 and draw the fight out.

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Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
Alto was using Ranka as bait!? Lets no make Alto into some kind of ass which he definitely is not. I agree that if Tom, Dick or Harry was in place of Ranka he still would have help them. That doesn't change the fact that Tom, Dick or Harry would have been a reason he did it in the end. I'm not associate ever reason he does something to her just the one she plays a part in. Not the whole reason but still a reason. You ignoring her being a reason is pointless.
Hey, Alto didn't recruit Ranka as bait. She was just there, conveniently and in a timely fashion to act as a bait while buying Alto time to hop into that VF-25. Alto simply made use of the situation. Regardless of what went on in Alto's mind, he still made use of that situation to his favor.

And I am not ignoring her, I said she was an added bonus. She was just not necessary.

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Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
So now you give the Pilot some credit but still ignore Ranka involvement? After Ozma saved him he didn't have to worry about the military anymore. He could just have gone home and forgot this ever happened. The problem was that he couldn't bring himself to forget about it. That because of the pilot, Ranka and his want to help. You ignore the fact that the military threat was worthless once Ozma intervened.
HA! What makes you so sure that the military threat would be worthless if Alto just forgets about everything? If he had gone and forget about this ever happened, I have many reason to believe the military would deck his arse in no time. You just like to believe all is well with the world because ignorance is a bliss.

And in case you've forgotten, while SMS is a privately run military organization, it still falls under the NUNS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
I fail to see where a person would be amused to be forced into something. He might have made the best of the situations but that doesn't mean he was ecstatic about it. He didn't seem happy to be doing the Camera shot with her, he was forced by the SMS, he didn't seem happy to be following around on the island, once again forced by SMS. He wasn't yelling at Michael that he let Sheryl on their team in his VF in Ep9 because he was happy! Yes I see how his enjoying being with her causing him to want to avoid her. We obviously watch different shows! He doesn't dig the hole its being dug for him then he's getting thrown in!
Really, if he was forced into everything, why did he voluntary took Sheryl to Folmo. Why did he voluntary return that earring to her. He could have just told her that it was lost, or simply ignored her. There were so many chances to just ignore her and let her be, but Alto doesn't function that way. So yeah, we are obviously watching different shows, you are watching one where nobody else is watching.

- Tak (And yes, Alto is a tsundere too)
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Old 2008-06-14, 12:01   Link #167
ReddyRedWolf
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Tsun~ Tsun~ Watashi Kare Wa Piloto~

Or somemething like that huh?
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Old 2008-06-14, 13:27   Link #168
Slick_rick
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Uh, the case I was making went under the situation where Ranka wasn't there. Then the Vajra would have went for Alto, and Alot attempting to escape would have done him no good. As I said, its hard to outrun anything coming at you in sub-light speed. His best at survival (again, if Ranka not being there) was to hop in that VF-25 and draw the fight out.
Your logic fails. The Vajra was on top of the VF-25. So you're saying between running and hiding away from the Vajra he should have instead have run up to it. This is a quick way to get noticed and then killed.



Quote:
Hey, Alto didn't recruit Ranka as bait. She was just there, conveniently and in a timely fashion to act as a bait while buying Alto time to hop into that VF-25. Alto simply made use of the situation. Regardless of what went on in Alto's mind, he still made use of that situation to his favor.

And I am not ignoring her, I said she was an added bonus. She was just not necessary. - Tak
Alto might have done what is best in the situation at the time and jumped into the VF but doesn't mean he saw this as some sort of opportunity to joyride in the VF or Ranka life in danger being a bonus. If you think he thought that way then you're saying that Alto wasn't being heroic but being childish.

Quote:
HA! What makes you so sure that the military threat would be worthless if Alto just forgets about everything? If he had gone and forget about this ever happened, I have many reason to believe the military would deck his arse in no time. You just like to believe all is well with the world because ignorance is a bliss.

And in case you've forgotten, while SMS is a privately run military organization, it still falls under the NUNS.
Guess I'll have to explain the entire scene to you so you completely understand what happened. The threat they made was that because he dangered the VF he would be held liable by the military and if he didn't want to go to prison then he should join the military. When Ozma entered he clearly stated that the VF belonged to SMS not the military so it wasn't any of their business. This is what we call a bluff in the military. I should know I was in the military. I'm not ignorant my friend. Trust me. Just like in our world you have to volunteer because if you didn't have to they wouldn't have tried to bluff him into joining.

I think you don't understand the relationship between a private military company and the military. They often leased out to the military to do certain jobs and in such under their jurisdiction when in war zones but their equipment and weapons are entirely paid by them. PMC's are almost always generally better funded and equipped because of their willingness to do more high risks jobs and more private escort missions for money. They have VF-25 because the company which makes them most likely wants to test them out in real combat situations and to get feedback from them. The military doesn't own the VF-25 either SMS does or the parent company but mostly certainly SMS takes all the cost of replacing or fixing them.

Quote:
Really, if he was forced into everything, why did he voluntary took Sheryl to Folmo. Why did he voluntary return that earring to her. He could have just told her that it was lost, or simply ignored her. There were so many chances to just ignore her and let her be, but Alto doesn't function that way. So yeah, we are obviously watching different shows, you are watching one where nobody else is watching.

- Tak (And yes, Alto is a tsundere too)
He was already forced to be with her for the day why not go to someplace he wanted to?! He returned the earring because he's not a thief and probably doesn't like jewelry.

Last edited by Slick_rick; 2008-06-14 at 15:39.
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Old 2008-06-14, 13:51   Link #169
glyph
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Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
He was already forced to be with her for the day why not go to someplace he wanted to?! He returned the earring because he's not a thief and probably doesn't like jewelry.
He could always return it another day (alternatively, he'd be dead and then what would he care about what the alleged 'bitch' thinks?). Instead, he risks his job (and with SMS being drafted, risks being court-martialed as he's supposed to be on standby for their mission) to return what as far as he knew was just a stupid piece of junk to Sheryl and stick around to give her moral support after seeing her outburst on television. Clearly, Alto doesn't just see Sheryl as just a nuisance he is forced to suffer.
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Old 2008-06-14, 13:59   Link #170
Slick_rick
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Originally Posted by glyph View Post
He could always return it another day (alternatively, he'd be dead and then what would he care about what the alleged 'bitch' thinks?). Instead, he risks his job (and with SMS being drafted, risks being court-martialed as he's supposed to be on standby for their mission) to return what as far as he knew was just a stupid piece of junk to Sheryl and stick around to give her moral support after seeing her outburst on television. Clearly, Alto doesn't just see Sheryl as just a nuisance he is forced to suffer.
I never said he just saw her as a nuisance. I said he not always amused by her antics. He'd be heartless not to feel something after her emotional speech on T.V. That he went there shows something of his character not that he has fun when she drags him along. If you go back a few posts you'll see I said 90% of the times he's forced. This was one of those 10 percent and it only took an entire fleet disappearing for him to do it.
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Old 2008-06-14, 14:11   Link #171
Swampstorm
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Excessive use of SDF analogies to predict the future makes my head hurt.

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Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
That he doesn't want to be part of her escapades is fine but when he does take part lying about it afterwards isn't helping to look like anything but an idiot. The fact remains that he didn't want Ranka to find out about it either because he thought she would spread a rumor or because he didn't her to know for more personal reasons.
I think one point that hasn't really been focused on is that Ranka already knew the answer to her question before asking. The purpose of asking wasn't to find information, but rather to see if Alto wanted to share the details with her or not. Her shock had to do with the fact that he wasn't willing.

Similarily, Ranka's reaction to finding out about Alto's past has to do with the fact that he didn't tell her about it. Alto is a closed book to her, and she knows very little about him as a person. This is one of the reasons why Ranka's interest in Alto comes across as more of a crush; she doesn't want to 'lose' Alto to another girl, but she doesn't know the first thing about him yet.

The cart comes after the horse.

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Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
I'm not going to say you're wrong about his relationships with Sheryl and Ranka. However, I think we all saw that Ranka had made Alto blush once or twice in the story. If she can pull that, then there's definitely a chance that Alto can see her in a different light. Brotherly love to me is when the guy doesn't even get fazed by anything the girl does to him. It's cute, but I think Alto's sitting on the fence here when it comes to his 'brotherly feelings' for Ranka. What the two need is development, and in my opinion, Ranka realizing her own feelings is the start of it. Alto developing feelings for her is absolutely not impossible.
Alto can develop feelings towards anyone, irrespective of how much he blushes. Blushing is a very indirect indication of attraction at best, and you need to be able to differentiate between feeling awkward about a situation and feeling awkward towards a person.

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Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
Did they inspire each other to take their respective leap of faith to their goals? Yes. I believe they just did. I don't think this fact is something to be taken for granted.
Of course not. That's what friendship is all about.

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Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
Alto blushed tremendously when he found out he was Though Alto did show attraction to Sheryl here, the guy also showed attraction to Ranka in the first episode. It balances it out. Plus, the fact that Ranka and Mikhail were there kind of ruins the Innocent Green moment, imo.
Interesting. So you could theoretically have as many love affairs as you want, so long as you give your significant other more dates than the rest combined. It balances out.

I don't think that Ranka's presence ruined the scene so much as she mirrored the audience reaction. I leapt out of my chair, breathed an "Uso~!" and proceeded to rewatch the scene endlessly to see if it really was true. Once I had confirmed it, I took commemorative screenshots and made animated gifs.

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Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
I really don't mean this as an offense, but I still feel like this scene was used merely as a catalyst for Ranka to face her and Mao's feelings. I'm not discrediting anything from it. I just find it as a one of the puzzle pieces used to create a big picture.
In a puzzle, any given piece interlocks with at least two others. Some are even double-sided; focus too much on one side and you'll miss the picture that is forming on the other. How can we tell what is subordinate to what when we don't even know how the love triangle itself fits into the larger scheme of things?

But the biggest problem of all is that nobody has the box, and we only have two-fifths of the pieces.

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Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
That's because we're still in episode 10. Didn't Ranka get upset when she realized how little she knew of Alto? She became aware of it, and that's more than enough. If Kawamori is trying to emphasize Sheryl and Alto's growing understanding of each other, then why did he make Sheryl look like one of the "leave-Alto-be" crowd that know of his past?
I can't speak for author intent. But I do know that Sheryl's statement showed an enormous amount of maturity and understanding on her part.

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Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
Why didn't they reveal this side of Sheryl in the earlier episodes? There's no doubt that Sheryl was shown to be not such a bad character later on. She does look like she'll be a good partner for Alto. Like I've been saying here over and over, if Sheryl started out like this instead of Ranka then I probably would've grown to like her more because I usually find strong characters like her appealing. When Kawamori decided to bastardize Sheryl's character in the first episode, Ranka kinda won me completely lol I'm merely stuck on first impressions and I believe first impressions are a big part of storytelling
I agree that first impressions are a big part of storytelling. Once you overcome a bad first impression, you're much less likely to switch back. That's one reason why tsunderekkos leave such an impact.

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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Sheryl actually makes an effort to find out about Alto and "get" him, she gives him an easy task to do (fly me around for a bit) so she can forgive him for her lost earring instead of just forgiving him which Alto wouldn't have liked.
Interestingly, the Sheryl blog entry dated 'December 7th, 2058' discusses a very similar problem and how Sheryl takes the same stance on it. She doesn't like imposing punishments on people even when their mistakes affect her, but she understands why people can feel awkward without going through that process of 'atonement'.

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Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
I agree that if Tom, Dick or Harry was in place of Ranka he still would have help them. That doesn't change the fact that Tom, Dick or Harry would have been a reason he did it in the end. I'm not associate ever reason he does something to her just the one she plays a part in. Not the whole reason but still a reason.
You seem to be mixing a short term objective ("Protect Ranka!") with a long term one ("I want to pilot for SMS!").

I think the point here is not whether or not Ranka had some sort of an impact on Alto's piloting. There's nothing in the story as of yet that says that he pilots specifically for her sake.

But can you tell me what this issue has to do with romance? Let's say for the sake of the argument that you could successfully prove your point. What on earth could you conclude from it?
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Old 2008-06-14, 14:21   Link #172
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Quick break from work whoo hoo!

As a writer, I try and look at a show, and figure out what direction the writers and directors are trying to go with each character. One has to look at each character and look at where they stand, where they want to go, and where they are really going. I'll focus on the big 3 and what I see after more than 1/3 of the show.

Alto:
A young man who is somewhat haunted by his Kabuki(sp?) past, and non-relationship with his father. He's in the pilot cadet program at the academy, and is second in his class(behind Michel correct?). He's shown with his paper airplanes, and always looking up at the sky, that his true passion is flying. He complains about feeling suffocated inside Macross Frontier, and yearns to be free. He also has a bit of a reckless side, that I would say is both because of him being a teenager, but also because of his 'needing' to prove to everyone else(and himself), that he is his own man, and that he is serious about flying and being free. He also doesn't open up about his past, or what he's thinking. What are the possible goals for him throughout the series, and for the end? Here's my thoughts on this.

1) Finding out exactly why he and his father don't talk anymore. Why he's completely dropped the Kabaki namesake and anything to do with acting. Will he reconsile with his father? Will he return to acting as a side hobby/job when he's not flying?

2) He's still young and rash, and needs to mature and grow up. His recklessness, while able to get through certain situations, it also gets him into other possibly deadly situations. Characters in his position generally have to get over their immature and recklessness, and become eventual leader/ace/adult. His experiences in the series will force him to mature and age, and become a more balanced person.

3) He's shown absolutely no interest in relationships and love at the beginning of this story. One can assume(and I think rightfully so), if he's receptive at all to the females who will try and reach for his heart, that he will eventually find out what love is, and what it's like to love someone. I think Basara loved singing far more than anything else, and has the least chances of finding love as a main character in the Macross Universe, but I believe Alto has shown some reaction to both Ranka and Sheryl(blushing, smiling from his first encounter with Ranka, and the kiss on the cheek from Sheryl in episode 5, etc). I believe even if he doesn't end up with one female, that there will be focus on him experiencing love. I think Ranka and Sheryl will be both responsible for this, though in their own ways(we know where I stand on who he should end up with at this point in the story, but I don't deny Ranka's role)

I think all three of these points will be his main focus throughout the story.

Ranka:

1) She is a young girl with a sad past. Her family was killed 11 years before, and she's being raised by an ex-military fighter pilot who has become a brother to her. Thanks to her mind blocking out those events of the past, she hasn't dealt with her past yet, and will need to become stronger mentally, so that she can finally move on and look to the future.

2) She has dreams of being like Sheryl. She loves to sing, and she wants others to hear her sing. She's alot like Lynn Minmei here, however, she's more grounded and humble as a person. How she becomes a star, and how she changes as a person because of it(does she stay grounded, or does she become like Lynn Minmei, or end up with a fake persona like Sheryl showed in the beginning episodes?).

3) At the start, she is a 14/15 year old girl, who has no thoughts on love and relationships, beyond that of what any typical young teenager girl might have. Right now, she only sees thinks in how they relate to her. Examples are of how she always talks about her brother won't let her do this, she wants to do that. She thinks this. She wishes that. She's all about herself. Not in a selfish way exactly, just that she hasn't really had a chance to grow up yet, and see what other people are going through around her. This will also be a focus as time goes on I believe. She will learn to be receptive to the people around her, and react accordingly(Luca in the restaurant, giving Alto and Ranka space is a prime example of someone who is aware).

4) Ranka doesn't know what love is. Or I should say, she hasn't fallen in love yet, so she hasn't really dived deep into what it is, and how it is. Her experiences with Sheryl and Alto, are both different, and similar. On one hand, Sheryl is this famous star that she strives to be. A goal for her as a career you can say. Alto, immediately becomes like a big brother to her. Offering advice, listening to her complain, helping her find herself, and her direction. She looks up to him in this way for the most part(it's obviously changing and going to continue to change as she changes, and she experiences different interactions with Alto and Sheryl). At the same time, she cares about both of them, and even if none of them had feelings for each other, I could see the three of them being good friends. I see Ranka seeing love and friendship very, very differently, by the end of this series, thanks to Sheryl and Alto. The Love Triangle will also force her to move at a pace that in a normal life, she wouldn't have had to do quite so quickly. I guess you could say point 4 is interwoven with point 3, but it deserves it's own discussion in my opinion.

Sheryl:

She is the biggest superstar in the Macross: Galaxy colony. Extremely confident and arrogant of her own abilities, she prefers to rely on herself, rather than rely on others. She has no family, and her manager is probably her closest friend. Her earrings are keepsakes of a mother she doesn't remember, but they are precious to her. She has no real friends, and is all business.

1) Like Alto, she has an inability in the beginning, to open up to others. She comes across defensive, professionally cold, outright bitchy to some. As she befriends Alto, Ranka, Michel, Luca, Nanase, and others, she will learn to open up, and not have to keep a wall up between her and the rest of humanity. She is SHERYL NOME(sp?) the Super star. But she's also, Sheryl Nome, the woman, the girl, someone who needs interaction with others, though she doesn't realize it at the beginning. She will fall back down to Earth so to speak, thanks to Ranka and Alto, in a good way.

2) Just as she needs interactions with others, she also knows nothing of love or family. Dependant on no one, she will find herself with unknown emotions(to her), as she spends time, and interacts with Alto, that she won't get with anyone else in the series. Is it love? Is it feelings a Master has for a slave(haha sorry just a joke ). Not only will she learn the value of friendship, but she will learn the benefits in relying on one person emotionally, physically, mentally. Someone she can break down infront of. Someone she can confide in on even embarrassing things. Someone who can make her feel as someone other than the super star, and touches her heart. What started as just teasing, and a possible friendship with Alto, is quickly accelerating past that, to something more intimate and deep. Whether there will be a happy romantic ending for her, considering the war, Alto's feelings, and Ranka's own participation in this love triangle, only the writers truly know.

Okay I kept having to come back to this message over the past 2 hours, and didn't go back and re-read through it, so I'm sure it's a mess, but I pray I did a fair write up on all three characters, and what directions I see the director/writers need to go with them. Since they are obviously the big three in this story, the main focus will be about them, their life experiences, and how they change from the beginning, to the end of this journey.

Please correct me in anything that you feel is twisted, false, or just mistaken. Thanks.

Will
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Old 2008-06-14, 14:35   Link #173
cerrian
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That's a pretty good analysis of the 3. I don't have any issues with what you got there.

You might want to address the pushing and motivating forces Sheryl places on Alto's and Ranka's character development as I do believe that is a key part to the triangle.

edit - I do want to add that currently Ranka's position is interesting in that Sheryl's presence has had a catalyzing effect at the 2 major turning points in her story (Miss Macross/singing and accepting the role of Mao) while at the same time Ranka draws strength and support from Alto to see her through those uncharted paths.

Last edited by cerrian; 2008-06-14 at 14:48.
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Old 2008-06-14, 14:36   Link #174
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As an author's note to my post, I thought if we dive into the points I made a little more closely, we'll begin to see what is a more likely outcome to the current S/R/A love triangle. Looking at the original SDF-Macross would net you a similiar path and ending. Hence why I put all of the points in the romance thread, as I thought it would be easier to flesh out what directions and approaches the director and writers might take, and what possible endings would make the most sense.

In short, I think Ranka's going to have a bitter sweet memory of Alto and her singing career, and Sheryl will still retain her singing career(possibly scaled down), but gain Alto in the end. I believe the more people dive into this story, the characters, and consider the way the writers/director have done things so far, it will strengthen my argument more and more.

Not that they won't throw a monkey into the mess, however if there is some constents that appear in the story, it's an almost foregone conclusion to me.
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Old 2008-06-14, 14:41   Link #175
Darial
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
Please correct me in anything that you feel is twisted, false, or just mistaken. Thanks.

Will
Solid analysis on all three main characters. Hopefully the series will give each of them more depth in the remainder of the season. MF is really turning out to be my favorite series this season, and hopefully it will grow the characters in the area you outlined so aptly.
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Old 2008-06-14, 14:47   Link #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cerrian View Post
That's a pretty good analysis of the 3. I don't have any issues with what you got there. You may want to address the pushing and motivating forces Sheryl places on Alto's and Ranka's character development as I do believe that is a key part to the triangle.
Sorry. I knew I was going to leave somethings out with that mess of a post while I'm at work.

As Sheryl spends more and more time with Alto, and tries to get him out of his shell(infront of Ranka in many instances), Ranka will be forced to compete somehow for Alto's attention in that regard. Ranka's already finding it harder to spend time with Alto with Sheryl involved now, and it will get worse as she dives further into her singing/acting career. Alto too, as he becomes more comfortable around Sheryl, and opens up to her more, Ranka will see the changes in him(she has to at some point?), and will start getting desperate to grow up so that she can understand him better(Sheryl has a head-start mentally IMO). Sheryl and Alto's interactions, whether Ranka sees them, or imagines them, will push her to change. If Sheryl wasn't in the picture, things would move far slower for Ranka, both in career, and in love, but instead of having her whole life to get both, she is running out of time for one(in her eyes). I see this as how Sheryl pushes Ranka along. She doesn't really push Ranka very much in my opinion when it comes to her singing. A sentence here, a sentence there, I think Alto and Sheryl have equal parts in motivating and pushing Ranka towards her goal, just from different angles.

Sheryl pushes Alto in several ways. Her constant teasing and forcing him into things, is opening up a world he's not experienced. I doubt he's gone anywhere with a girl by himself, before Sheryl's little date. I also doubt he's so much as looked at another girl's sex appeal until Sheryl gave him an eyeful( ), the 'joke' about him using that memory for that night's motivation (), how she forces him to see her feminine features, it's probably the most he's ever thought about in his entire life. Whether he wants it or not, Sheryl is forcing him to look at love and relationships, when he'd never had it cross his mind. Even if she's not intentienally doing it(or even knowingly), the way she is always aggressive towards him(in many ways and for many things), she's throwing a monkey wrench into his whole thinking on life. Even if for some reason he doesn't hook up with her in the end, she will be directly responsible for him even getting into a relationship during this 25 episodes. As she will also be the reason why Ranka will pursue Alto with some aggression in her own way.

Sheryl is the catalyst for Ranka and Alto, not to mention herself, in discovering love. None of these three were looking for love, weren't thinking about love, weren't considering love, until now. Sheryl is the active force for all three of them.
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Old 2008-06-14, 14:53   Link #177
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Solid analysis on all three main characters. Hopefully the series will give each of them more depth in the remainder of the season. MF is really turning out to be my favorite series this season, and hopefully it will grow the characters in the area you outlined so aptly.
I'm ashamed to say I've now watched the first 10 episodes at least 6 times in the past two weeks. I think there's something wrong with me.

All three characters are just so loveable in their own way, and many of the side characters are very interesting as well. I've been waiting for a show like this for a long time.
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Old 2008-06-14, 15:03   Link #178
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I'm ashamed to say I've now watched the first 10 episodes at least 6 times in the past two weeks. I think there's something wrong with me.
LOL. Join the club. I usually never rewatch animes, and I think I watched MF 1-10 at least 3 times already. I'm blaming it on the songs (which I been listening to driving to work every day for the last week). Diamond Crevasse and Aimo are definitely addictive.

BTW, excellent follow-up analysis. I think Sheryl as catalyst theory is spot on. Then again, I always have a soft spot for tsundere female mains (Madoka anyone?), so go figure.

On a side note, so far I find the three mains in MF much more likeable than the three mains in original Macross... Anyone feels the same way?
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Old 2008-06-14, 15:08   Link #179
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Originally Posted by Darial View Post
LOL. Join the club. I usually never rewatch animes, and I think I watched MF 1-10 at least 3 times already. I'm blaming it on the songs (which I been listening to driving to work every day for the last week). Diamond Crevasse and Aimo are definitely addictive.

On a side note, so far I find the three mains in MF much more likeable than the three mains in original Macross... Anyone feels the same way?
I know what you mean. I have half of the first OST on my Ipod Shuffle and listen to it at work when things are slow.

As for the original three, I thought Rick/Hikaru was an idiot, Minmei was a b#$# from beginning to end, and Lisa/Misa, got the short end of the stick. She got stuck with a loser, when she should have gotten a guy who wasn't hung over some air-head 16 year old singer. These were my thoughts when I was 6, and they are my thoughts now, when I'm 28. Lisa will always be one of my top characters in anime, and I don't see that changing.

However, as a whole, I believe the main 3 in this series, is vastly superior to the big 3, in the original Macross series.
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Old 2008-06-14, 15:10   Link #180
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Okay, random thinking as I haven't sat down and watched the show today, but my mind wanders like this so bear with me.

Remember when Sheryl went and kissed Alto on the cheek? Check the background. The light seemed to get brighter at that moment, as if the sun was focusing it's rays all around them as it went down.

Another note, is they seem to love playing BGM when Sheryl and Alto do something together, yet there's hardly anything, when Alto and Ranka are together. Am I reading too much into this, or does it seem like even the animators and musical staff, give more flair to this pairing, than the Alto/Ranka pairing?

Will(always open to criticism)
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