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Old 2008-10-19, 16:11   Link #141
MissInformed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
I can't believe I'm doing this, but here is a link to an international bra size converter. Japanese 70D is US 32C and British 32D. I thought the staff might have made a mistake, sizing a European bra in the Japanese way, but it turns out that the EU and Japan use the same system.

And I really can't believe I'm doing this, but to see what the numbers mean in real life, Google "Japanese bra sizes explained." From japanprobe.com. All in the interests of further knowledge. Possibly not quite work-safe.

Here is a helpful forum answer about how Japanese sizes are calculated. And here is an article on changing sizes in Japan.
Heheheh I saw both those links earlier when trying to explain, but I didn't want to post them.

Very educational though.

Though on that first link, France has a different sizing category (along with Belgium and Spain) than Europe in general. So who knows.
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Old 2008-10-19, 17:11   Link #142
psycho bolt
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Episode 1 was funny, Episode 2 was a bit rushed, and I love the ED song.
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Old 2008-10-19, 22:28   Link #143
Matrim
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I actually liked the episode even though it was obviously rushed. Jean, Yuuko and Katahira's personalities are way better presented in the manga and Nodame's encouraging speech to Chiaki is not merely the one-liner "People improve when they lose" as it is in the anime. And not showing Chiaki conducting the piece which gave him the win was just non-sensical from purely narrative point of view.
But Nodame was hilarious as usual and I am watching the series mostly to see her antics, so I am not too bothere.
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Old 2008-10-19, 23:16   Link #144
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ep 2 was pretty fun to watch lol that otaku guy is pretty funny
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Old 2008-10-20, 06:40   Link #145
Ascaloth
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A counter-comment I made on my Ep2 article turned into a tl;dr rant, and caused me to realize that maybe I didn't quite expound enough on why I disliked the execution of the episode so much. So I thought I'd copy/paste it here.

Spoiler for tl;dr, missing themes from the manga:
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Old 2008-10-20, 10:00   Link #146
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WOW things are moving ultra fast they covered so many in episode 2 just alone skipping over massive amounts of material and going right into Chiaki's competitions which they skipped a lot of good material that i feel was needed to to progress the story. I am not hating it im just disappointed that so much material was left out they basically covered Chiaki in one episode. They didnt kill his character development but they did bloody it a little. Im so glad they kept the other Japanese guy in the series along with his jumping skillz lol. Over all still good a little disappointed but not so muc thats its a bother looking forward to when Nodame finally finds her way. What she does later on is truly cool.
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Old 2008-10-20, 10:53   Link #147
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Speaking as one who hasn't read the manga save a couple of pages, I don't find anything lacking in this series. The pacing is fast, but I wouldn't call it "rushed." Judging by how much whining is going on here, I'm actually glad I haven't read the manga and let it diminish how much I'm enjoying Pari-hen.
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Old 2008-10-20, 11:33   Link #148
DragoonKain3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascaloth
It’s true that it’s not inconceivable for Chiaki to watch a competitor’s performance, but it’s also not inconceivable that he would rather be doing some last minute studying for his turn instead, which is actually what he initially decided to do in the manga.
If Chiaki did indeed plan for last minute studying in the manga, then oh boy am I glad they omitted it. Chiaki as a character is NOT the last minute study kind of guy, and him watching another competitor shows how much confidence he has in his preparation and his own abilities, which is much more in line from what we've seen of him in the first season.

Really, I thought considering all your posts about Chiaki's 'work ethic' and 'determination', this is one omission you should've been happy about as it goes against both.

Quote:
For what conceivable reason would Nodame be “a ghost of herself”?
If you meant the dining room scene, then there's another interpretation of that. First off, the annoying girl went so far as to intrude on Nodame and Chiaki's privacy in the restaurant. Even worse, the first thing that came out of her mouth would be 'zanen...', which if I'm not mistaken roughly translates to 'too bad about..' Regardless, considering the extremely sarcastic manner in which she said the word, I'm not too surprised that Nodame was less than enthusiatic speaking with Yuuko, thus her annoyed face was shown seconds after Yuuko said 'zanen' and not anytime before.

I mean, if a total stranger out of nowhere started throwing sarcasm towards my LI the moment s/he has invaded my private time in what looks like a fancy restaurant, then of course I'd be miffed.

Quote:
How does Jean saying that Chiaki’s performance isn’t bad, and some other conductor being an ass have to do with how Chiaki could somehow magically beat Jean?
It really wasn't so much him beating Jean during that time as it was him beating three other competitiors in order to advance in the finals. If that was actually the finals, then no doubt Jean would've won.

Admittedly, it's the weakest part of the episode, because all they have shown is how Chiaki beat one contestant, but we weren't shown how he beat the other two. That said, Jean did say not to worry about his performance, of which when coupled with the 'admitting mistake' incident we can safely conclude it was just 'good enough' to advance to the next round.

Quote:
On what merit did Chiaki win the competition anyway?
This is actually quite easy to deduce, considering that Chiaki does his best when he has 'loosened up' and is having fun, just like the last performance of the second string orchestra back in season 1. Not to mention it's a piece he has been familiar for more than a decade already, and it's a piece that holds a special place in his heart. If anything, they'd have to show how Chiaki could NOT win with all that.

Quote:
It was instrumental in how it showed how it was Chiaki’s work ethic and determination rather than some kind of dumb luck that he got where he is today, as well as how he truly viewed Nodame despite his tsundere behaviour towards her.
In all honesty though, do we need to rehash it all again? We already know Chiaki's work ethic right from the very beginning of season 1, and his clinging to Nodame in the airplane shows how determined he is. I don't need another reminder about this, thank you very much.

And while I'm all for more Chiaki-->Nodame scenes, with Chiaki allowing Nodame to choose for him in the 'lottery' and him using the rubber toy for his baton is more than enough for me.

Really, you seem to be so intent on these two topics (both of which has been hammered to our heads already) that you don't see what the true purpose of this episode... One, to show that Viera-sensei still remembers Chiaki, and that Viera still considers him as his apprectice. And two, this is the first real measuring stick we have of Chiaki's conducting ability, and that he is on the level of any of Viera's students. The anime just so happens to focus on these two topics. Of which I am glad, because really, I don't see the point of beating a dead horse by focusing in the two topics you feel they should've emphasized on.


Of course, if Kasai was the one directing, I'm pretty sure that everything would be done so much better. Then again, I'm biased that way, since I worship the ground he walks on.
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Old 2008-10-20, 13:54   Link #149
Ascaloth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
If Chiaki did indeed plan for last minute studying in the manga, then oh boy am I glad they omitted it. Chiaki as a character is NOT the last minute study kind of guy, and him watching another competitor shows how much confidence he has in his preparation and his own abilities, which is much more in line from what we've seen of him in the first season.

Really, I thought considering all your posts about Chiaki's 'work ethic' and 'determination', this is one omission you should've been happy about as it goes against both.
Clearly, I must learn to state my points in a manner that is uncompromisingly obvious with absolutely no room for possible misinterpretation whatsoever in the future. Only by doing that, could I lower the probability that one who would wish to debate against me would misconstrue my words unintentionally or otherwise, and proceed to make a straw man (unintentional or otherwise) of my points in their counterargument.

I said Chiaki wanted to do some last minute studying in the manga. I do believe I have not stated that he that was all the studying he planned to do, or that he had not studied before that particular scene. On the other hand, I can see how you might have misinterpreted what on hindsight is an ambiguous statement of mine, so I'll let this slide.

Quote:
If you meant the dining room scene, then there's another interpretation of that. First off, the annoying girl went so far as to intrude on Nodame and Chiaki's privacy in the restaurant. Even worse, the first thing that came out of her mouth would be 'zanen...', which if I'm not mistaken roughly translates to 'too bad about..' Regardless, considering the extremely sarcastic manner in which she said the word, I'm not too surprised that Nodame was less than enthusiatic speaking with Yuuko, thus her annoyed face was shown seconds after Yuuko said 'zanen' and not anytime before.

I mean, if a total stranger out of nowhere started throwing sarcasm towards my LI the moment s/he has invaded my private time in what looks like a fancy restaurant, then of course I'd be miffed.
Fair enough. Maybe Nodame was just a little quick to throw out the -_-" face.

Quote:
It really wasn't so much him beating Jean during that time as it was him beating three other competitiors in order to advance in the finals. If that was actually the finals, then no doubt Jean would've won.

Admittedly, it's the weakest part of the episode, because all they have shown is how Chiaki beat one contestant, but we weren't shown how he beat the other two. That said, Jean did say not to worry about his performance, of which when coupled with the 'admitting mistake' incident we can safely conclude it was just 'good enough' to advance to the next round.
Point completely missed. Chiaki bombed Till Eulenspiegals Lustige Streiche because he was panicking after hearing Jean's rendition; the latter was simply telling Chiaki that he doesn't have to worry about his own skill being any less than Jean's. Like Chiaki himself said, it was a consolation, not a definite statement that Chiaki could make it through to the final.

Quote:
This is actually quite easy to deduce, considering that Chiaki does his best when he has 'loosened up' and is having fun, just like the last performance of the second string orchestra back in season 1. Not to mention it's a piece he has been familiar for more than a decade already, and it's a piece that holds a special place in his heart. If anything, they'd have to show how Chiaki could NOT win with all that.
Chiaki does his best when he remembers to take a leaf from Nodame and enjoy the music. So tell me, how has it been shown that it's enough to beat Jean, a first-place winner in Belgium and one of Sebastiano Viera's apprentices for real?

This is why I'm no fan of the Code Geass "Fanwanking to Handwave Plot Holes" School of Anime Fandom. All sorts of Wild Mass Guessing that don't conceal the fact that the holes are there.

Quote:
In all honesty though, do we need to rehash it all again? We already know Chiaki's work ethic right from the very beginning of season 1, and his clinging to Nodame in the airplane shows how determined he is. I don't need another reminder about this, thank you very much.
We already know Chiaki's work ethic from the start; the Competition Arc was supposed to show just how critical it was that he has that ethic, particularly to contrast against Jean who didn't. Where was that theme in this episode? Nope, it's missing, thrown out along with the judge's discussion of both conductors' styles in the final round.

Quote:
And while I'm all for more Chiaki-->Nodame scenes, with Chiaki allowing Nodame to choose for him in the 'lottery' and him using the rubber toy for his baton is more than enough for me.
Glad that you're easily satisfied. I guess it's just too bad that some of us have higher standards than that.

Quote:
Really, you seem to be so intent on these two topics (both of which has been hammered to our heads already) that you don't see what the true purpose of this episode... One, to show that Viera-sensei still remembers Chiaki, and that Viera still considers him as his apprectice. And two, this is the first real measuring stick we have of Chiaki's conducting ability, and that he is on the level of any of Viera's students. The anime just so happens to focus on these two topics. Of which I am glad, because really, I don't see the point of beating a dead horse by focusing in the two topics you feel they should've emphasized on.
Oh, wonderful. Your idea of trying to prove that I'm on the wrong track is to put a False Dilemma in front of me, and proceed to make me the subject of a Bulverism to boot.

I'm in despair! The tendency of people to indirectly insult my intelligence has left me in despair!

Ahem. What if I told you that the live-action special episode covered both the points you raise as well as the points that the episode omitted? Clearly, there is no dilemma as to what should be included here, is there? There's only what the episode included and what it omitted, and what was omitted is enough to significantly affect the story negatively.
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Old 2008-10-20, 15:29   Link #150
Matrim
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Quote:
We already know Chiaki's work ethic from the start; the Competition Arc was supposed to show just how critical it was that he has that ethic, particularly to contrast against Jean who didn't. Where was that theme in this episode? Nope, it's missing.
Quote:
This is why I'm no fan of the Code Geass "Fanwanking to Handwave Plot Holes" School of Anime Fandom. All sorts of Wild Mass Guessing that don't conceal the fact that the holes are there.
Amen to that. One would think they could have spared half a minute to include the judges' conversation after Chiaki and Jean's respective performances in the final which made the difference between them clear (unsubtle, I know, but since they did not show the difference, they should have at least let us hear the explanation).


Quote:
What if I told you that the live-action special episode covered both the points you raise as well as the points that the episode omitted?
I'd assume that the live-action used up more time for that than than the 20 minutes that the anime had, though? If not, credit to them.
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Last edited by Matrim; 2008-10-20 at 15:42.
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Old 2008-10-20, 20:26   Link #151
Ascaloth
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Originally Posted by Matrim View Post
I'd assume that the live-action used up more time for that than than the 20 minutes that the anime had, though? If not, credit to them.
Well duh, of course they took nearly twice as long for the Competition Arc. They still did it far more properly than J.C. Staff did, though. [sarcasm]I am so sorry for being a complete Chiri Kitsu about it.[/sarcasm] >_>
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Old 2008-10-21, 05:27   Link #152
Matrim
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Well duh, of course they took nearly twice as long for the Competition Arc. They still did it far more properly than J.C. Staff did, though.
Well, I am sure the anime too would have done it much better if this arc had been given two episodes instead of one, so I don't really see your point. One could and probably should blame them for deciding to compress a lot of material in just one episode, but not for failing to match another adaptation which took a lot more time to portray the same events.
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Old 2008-10-21, 07:45   Link #153
Ascaloth
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Originally Posted by Matrim View Post
Well, I am sure the anime too would have done it much better if this arc had been given two episodes instead of one, so I don't really see your point. One could and probably should blame them for deciding to compress a lot of material in just one episode, but not for failing to match another adaptation which took a lot more time to portray the same events.
Granted on the latter, but that raises the question of why J.C. Staff thought it was alright to squeeze the entire Competition Arc into one episode in the first place. So sorry for being a Chiri Kitsu, but my stand is if you want to do something, take the effort to do it properly. >_>
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Old 2008-10-21, 07:48   Link #154
Eczema
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Maybe there's more important things to come in the overall Paris arc? I wouldn't know since I haven't read the manga, but I still like to take the wait-and-see approach.
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Old 2008-10-21, 08:31   Link #155
Matrim
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So sorry for being a Chiri Kitsu, but my stand is if you want to do something, take the effort to do it properly.
Totally agreed about that. It's interesting to note that the director used more or less the same approach (i.e. cut and compress as much as possible and to hell with most of the character development) when working on Higurashi no Naku Koro ni's first season. Maybe he was chosen to take over exactly because Higurashi was a success despite all the material left out?

Quote:
Maybe there's more important things to come in the overall Paris arc? I wouldn't know since I haven't read the manga, but I still like to take the wait-and-see approach.
Well, it very much depends on what is considered to be the Paris arc - I mean, as of Volume 20 at least, the manga still takes place in Paris. But if it's what I suspect - that the anime will end with
Spoiler for very minor manga spoiler, just in case:
, there will be plenty of events ahead and quite a few volumes of manga to animate, so the breakneck pace is justified to an extent.

And since i am feeling like hijacking the thread with all the manga talk, I will finish off by saying that I just saw the seiyuu of Son Rui and I like the choice they have made. It is Ohara Sayaka, known to me for voicing Alicia from ARIA and Milly from Code Geass.
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Old 2008-10-21, 08:57   Link #156
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Episode two was enjoyable. Nevertheless, I felt it was too rushed and dropped many details that would have made for a better episode.

Spoiler:


Given the number of episodes the second season has, it really depends on what the production crew is gunning for - just telling us the story or giving us the whole Nodame experience, music, warts and all.
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Old 2008-10-21, 09:26   Link #157
Ascaloth
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Originally Posted by Matrim View Post
Totally agreed about that. It's interesting to note that the director used more or less the same approach (i.e. cut and compress as much as possible and to hell with most of the character development) when working on Higurashi no Naku Koro ni's first season. Maybe he was chosen to take over exactly because Higurashi was a success despite all the material left out?
Urgh. I'll facepalm so hard if it's indeed the case. -_-

Quote:
Well, it very much depends on what is considered to be the Paris arc - I mean, as of Volume 20 at least, the manga still takes place in Paris. But if it's what I suspect - that the anime will end with
Spoiler for very minor manga spoiler, just in case:
, there will be plenty of events ahead and quite a few volumes of manga to animate, so the breakneck pace is justified to an extent.
If they keep up the rate they're going, I think they're probably going to end at
Spoiler for another minor manga spoiler:
instead. Not a bad place to end a series at by itself, but I wish they would either settle for an earlier point to end, or give themselves more episodes to work with...
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Old 2008-10-21, 09:28   Link #158
DragoonKain3
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Originally Posted by Ascaloth
Point completely missed. Chiaki bombed Till Eulenspiegals Lustige Streiche because he was panicking after hearing Jean's rendition; the latter was simply telling Chiaki that he doesn't have to worry about his own skill being any less than Jean's.
Translation...
Jean: I heard your perfomance. You don't need to worry.
I dunno about you, but there's more weight for Jean commenting about Chiaki's piece and how he performed it, rather than Chiaki's skill in comparison to his. Besides, why would Chiaki worry about his skill being less than Jean's? Right now, Chiaki's biggest worry is if his perfomance is good enough to advance to the next round, and as such, it makes much more sense for Jean to mean not to worry much about advancing.

Quote:
Like Chiaki himself said, it was a consolation, not a definite statement that Chiaki could make it through to the final
Interpretation. All Chiaki ever said after that event was...
Chiaki: He must be a good guy.
Of which, what was Jean being a good guy of? That he was just giving him 'consolation'? Or perhaps maybe because he stopped Yuuko from essentially kicking a man when he was down and he himself did not stoop to that level? The former has evidence on shaky ground in the anime, but the latter is exactly what he did during the restaurant scene.

Quote:
Chiaki does his best when he remembers to take a leaf from Nodame and enjoy the music. So tell me, how has it been shown that it's enough to beat Jean, a first-place winner in Belgium and one of Sebastiano Viera's apprentices for real?
By comparing it how he did against Jean in the prelims. First and second prelims, it was depicted he was toe-to-toe with Jean, when he was being himself. It happened twice, so it's no fluke and thus sets precedent that he is Jean's equal. So if he had a handicap, like say, by not being himself in that he's trying too hard? Of course he would lose, and that's what happened in the third prelims. But let's say Chiaki kicked it up a notch, by finally letting himself go and enjoy the music? Wouldn't it follow then that he's the favourite to win?

Being familiar with the piece that he was doing, on top of it having a special place in his heart nailed the coffin right then and there. They didn't show how he beat Jean, because really, at that point it's inevitable that Chaiki won.

Of course, it's of the slimmest of margins at worst, since Chiaki did say he didn't felt like he won, nor did Jean felt like he lost. Both did their best, but it just so happened that Chiaki edged out his competition.

Lesson of the story? Determination, hard work, and talent are important, but in the end it's all about enjoying whatever it is you do. There's a reason why Katagiri is also put in there by showing Chiaki the error of his ways. It's just too bad Katagiri doesn't have the genius the other two finalists has, as evidenced by him failing to enter the finals 3 times in a row already.

The way I see it is this...
Jean - Determination, hard work, talent
Katagiri - Determination, hard work, enjoying the music
Chiaki - combines the best of both worlds... Determination, hard work, talent, enjoys the music

Quote:
We already know Chiaki's work ethic from the start; the Competition Arc was supposed to show just how critical it was that he has that ethic, particularly to contrast against Jean who didn't. Where was that theme in this episode? Nope, it's missing, thrown out along with the judge's discussion of both conductors' styles in the final round.
And it's important to contrast it with Jean because? The only character who we would learn something new from this development would be Jean, and he's only a minor character.

By depicting Jean as as a genius and also as a hardworker (by him saying he did not feel he lost, it gives evidence that he has done everything in preparation to win), the anime on the otherhand emphasizes how critical it is to enjoy the music when all else is equal. Which to be frank is much more powerful to me.

Quote:
Glad that you're easily satisfied. I guess it's just too bad that some of us have higher standards than that.
I'm just glad my standards aren't set higher by reading the original work, or another adapatation before hand. Reason why I'm not touching even the SP till after the anime has finished, in order to see if the anime by itself can stand alone. And in that regard, it's doing a nice job.

Quote:
Ahem. What if I told you that the live-action special episode covered both the points you raise as well as the points that the episode omitted?
And I've mentioned that the only point that was omitted wasn't really necessary, and by omitting it gave rise to a better theme. At least better IMO, but that doesn't change the fact that whatever was omitted wasn't really that integral to the story.

Quote:
There's only what the episode included and what it omitted, and what was omitted is enough to significantly affect the story negatively.
I certainly didn't feel that way, nor did many other posters here who hasn't seen the original or the SP yet. Whatever 'plot holes' you claim exists isn't really there at all, since everything can be explained within the context of the anime series. So I'm going to think it's just you.
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Old 2008-10-21, 09:41   Link #159
Matrim
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Quote:
Jean - Determination, hard work, talent
You have gotten it all wrong. In the manga Jean loses out exactly because he is NOT a a hard-working, disciplined fellow. To quote one of the judges "Jean did not put enough efort". Jean has flair and style in buckets. Jean himself says that his preparation was lacking and that he failed due to relying only on talent to give him the win. Of course the anime failed to mention all that that giving the viewers rather wrong impression of Jean, it seems.
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Old 2008-10-21, 09:50   Link #160
Eczema
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Originally Posted by Matrim View Post
You have gotten it all wrong. In the manga Jean loses out exactly because he is NOT a a hard-working, disciplined fellow. To quote one of the judges "Jean did not put enough efort". Jean has flair and style in buckets. Jean himself says that his preparation was lacking and that he failed due to relying only on talent to give him the win. Of course the anime failed to mention all that that giving the viewers rather wrong impression of Jean, it seems.
The point of his post wasn't what sort of person Jean was, but how the anime portrayed the 3 finalists and what it said about Chiaki's personality and ultimately, victory.
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