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Old 2011-01-15, 02:13   Link #5961
cmgmcmg
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honestly, i can see that it was thrown in their to mess up a good healthy relationship for the sake of postponing the inevitable and causing the story to continue, i can see that and i do have to agree that i didn't like the fact he used the "i'm dying" pity card to get some action but i did actually feel for him and i still believe his character was a good input. sure, i didn't like how fast he was just thrown in there and i really don't like how he'll never be mentioned again but on all the romantic mangas i have ever so in which almost all of them do this to some extent, he was the first plot device character that i actually cared alittle whenever the author decided to just throw him aside.

i do agree about seo not knowing what to do after they actually become a sturdy couple but not many mangas continue strong if everyone is happy in the story and content with where they are. conflict adds drama and drama ands more chapters and more money! thats the simple fact to every manga, anime, tv show and movies! why do you think most mangas like this always have a limp noodle for the leading male role? limp noodles are incompetent and create drama!

yes, i do seem to agree that he way be milking this a bit much and thinning out the story by stretching it out way too far and he should have ended it before it got to where there is no substance left.

alittle too late for that now
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Old 2011-01-15, 03:09   Link #5962
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Heh pretty spot on.
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Old 2011-01-15, 05:17   Link #5963
Waven
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Originally Posted by ZODDGUTS View Post


Heh pretty spot on.
Something tells me the author's editor told him to put a reference in there - seems like now everyone wants to have a piece of the infamous yet successful KNIM-pie (" Oh noes sir, HnI is not that desperate", I hear them say ).

Funny thing is, this is hurting Seo not a bit, if anything it fuels his work's publicity even more and seeing that both series are published in the same mag this even might have been the plan to begin with.
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Old 2011-01-15, 06:05   Link #5964
Mentar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmgmcmg View Post
i don't see why everyone is dissing the kazama arc and calling him a corpse bastard?! that was definitely one of my favorite arcs of any of these wimpy leading male character love stories in which he always gets a whole harem to himself for doing nothing, that arc set this manga aside from all the countless others lying around in the world
After this barrage of hate against cmgmcmg's assertion, let me offer support for him. In my opinion, the arc was perfectly fine, all characters introduced acted within boundaries of reason (though you're naturally free to disagree), and my opinion on no character active in the arc has deteriorated.

Even more, I thought that the rabid self-enhancing echo chamber which led to really hate-screeching results during this arc was one of the total low points on Animesuki. If you've missed it, cmgmcmg, feel happy you did.
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Old 2011-01-15, 07:42   Link #5965
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Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
After this barrage of hate against cmgmcmg's assertion, let me offer support for him. In my opinion, the arc was perfectly fine, all characters introduced acted within boundaries of reason (though you're naturally free to disagree), and my opinion on no character active in the arc has deteriorated.

Even more, I thought that the rabid self-enhancing echo chamber which led to really hate-screeching results during this arc was one of the total low points on Animesuki. If you've missed it, cmgmcmg, feel happy you did.
Can I ask you first. Do you also liked the corpse bastard?
THe arc has achieved its purpose, to inflict a lot of emotions to the readers. But I don't find it very appealing to the readers as they started to abandoned the manga.

One thing, so corpse bastard is acting within boundaries of reason, what is "within boundaries of reason"? To me, he just acted with his own selfish decisions.
The main characters deteriorated:
Eba →became a fool for accepting the relationship with the "maggot guy" and became a depressive person the whole arc.
Haruto → the biggest idiot of all, even though he started good (he's determination to get EBa back), he crumbles when the " corpse bastard" befriend him only to find out he is Eba's BF. And what's more he proposed to "the hemorrhoid guy" a bet just to make him go to surgery where Eba is the prize, treating her like a property, not thinking about her feelings at all. After that, he still trusted and respected the guy more than Eba. Even though he just cheaply, unfairly stole his girlfriend.
Well other points are the previous post from Master Chibi.
Well you're bound to your opinions, nothing we can do if you really like that kind of guy where your girlfriend will be stolen because he used a "death card".
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Old 2011-01-15, 07:56   Link #5966
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Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
finally had a chance to read the latest chapter!!

Damn, after reading a chapter full of Eba, my inner voice is urging me to switch side again...must resist...

I decide to stop predicting and just wait to see what Seo can do...knowing Seo, he will probably come up with some typical excuse for haruto to meet Eba again (Ex..that tennis club Senpai wanna get Eba and asks Haruto for help...) Oh well, can't wait for the next chapter!!
my inner voice was similar.... i too will try better to resist lol.

funny how one appearance from eba can make such a change in our thinking.
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Old 2011-01-15, 08:05   Link #5967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
After this barrage of hate against cmgmcmg's assertion, let me offer support for him. In my opinion, the arc was perfectly fine, all characters introduced acted within boundaries of reason (though you're naturally free to disagree), and my opinion on no character active in the arc has deteriorated.

Even more, I thought that the rabid self-enhancing echo chamber which led to really hate-screeching results during this arc was one of the total low points on Animesuki. If you've missed it, cmgmcmg, feel happy you did.
lol, Well I didn't want to reply further since I there were at least 7 counter post. However I do disagree if you are going to label peoples post as "Hate". Everyone is allowed to freely express their opinion no matter how contrast/opposite they can be, since there wasn't anything malice or a shred of trolling. Every gave strong enough reason to support their own words.
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Old 2011-01-15, 09:08   Link #5968
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Originally Posted by Haru~ View Post
Can I ask you first. Do you also liked the corpse bastard?
Why would I dislike him? He didn't know that Eba was with someone when he asked her again to be his girlfriend until his death.

So essentially you're saying that it was wrong to ask Eba yet again? This is a position I can understand, but HE WAS DYING THEN, for crying out loud. I find it hard to blame him for this "selfishness". When you're dying in a hospital someday, you're going to send away all your friends and family not to expose them to pain? Really? Color me skeptical.

Quote:
THe arc has achieved its purpose, to inflict a lot of emotions to the readers. But I don't find it very appealing to the readers as they started to abandoned the manga.
Oh really? I see most of the old faces still around. What I have learned throughout the arc is that many readers lacked either the maturity or empathy to deal with a very uncommon situation in manga, namely the exposure to having people you care for die slowly.

Quote:
One thing, so corpse bastard is acting within boundaries of reason, what is "within boundaries of reason"? To me, he just acted with his own selfish decisions.
Is that really so hard to grasp? This guy is barely 20 and about to die. Dying is a very scary and LONELY thing. So if you had been in your shoes, you'd have sent the girl you always loved away? Really? I don't believe you. In fact, I don't believe you have even an inkling how you'd feel in this situation.

Quote:
The main characters deteriorated:
Eba →became a fool for accepting the relationship with the "maggot guy" and became a depressive person the whole arc.
What Eba did was a sacrifice, for a friend she cared for. Naturally, this was a very depressing outlook, but she kept her promise and commitment to him. She didn't HAVE to do this for him, but she still did it, and she gained BIG points with me for that. And for me, those people who call her a "fool" for that are either clueless kids (who simply haven't experienced a situation like that before) or cruel selfish assholes who lack any shred of empathy. Revel in your righteous ignorance if you wish. But stay away dissing people like Eba.

Really, for me - who has experienced a comparable situation in the past - it is mindboggling how judgmental people can be who obviously don't have the slightest friggen clue how actully BEING in the situation of the characters would feel.
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Old 2011-01-15, 10:42   Link #5969
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wow...i really want the next chapter...

now that eba is back, really can't wait...after all, she's the main heroine...
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Old 2011-01-15, 11:21   Link #5970
Master Chibi
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Originally Posted by cmgmcmg View Post
i do agree about seo not knowing what to do after they actually become a sturdy couple but not many mangas continue strong if everyone is happy in the story and content with where they are. conflict adds drama and drama ands more chapters and more money! thats the simple fact to every manga, anime, tv show and movies! why do you think most mangas like this always have a limp noodle for the leading male role? limp noodles are incompetent and create drama!
Try looking around for Love Roma.

Four volumes.

Best romantic manga about a couple in an actual relationship, none of the bullshit.

Period.
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Old 2011-01-15, 11:24   Link #5971
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the results for that ch 100 popularity poll finally got out:

Spoiler for ch 100 popularity poll:
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Old 2011-01-15, 11:26   Link #5972
DragoZERO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
What Eba did was a sacrifice, for a friend she cared for. Naturally, this was a very depressing outlook, but she kept her promise and commitment to him. She didn't HAVE to do this for him, but she still did it, and she gained BIG points with me for that. And for me, those people who call her a "fool" for that are either clueless kids (who simply haven't experienced a situation like that before) or cruel selfish assholes who lack any shred of empathy. Revel in your righteous ignorance if you wish. But stay away dissing people like Eba.
I wish Seo revealed the exact events during Yuzuki's long term relationship, as in her side of the story. People forget that Haruto went out with Nanami on a "pretend date" sort of deal and Yuzuki saw them holding hands. If he did not do that, Yuzuki would have turned Kazama down. Haruto realized this himself too, but it seems it was too brief for everyone to pick up on.

Yuzuki's only mistake was how she broke up with Haruto, and that wasn't even that big of a mistake for an insecure teenage girl either.
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Old 2011-01-15, 11:53   Link #5973
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
I wish Seo revealed the exact events during Yuzuki's long term relationship, as in her side of the story. People forget that Haruto went out with Nanami on a "pretend date" sort of deal and Yuzuki saw them holding hands. If he did not do that, Yuzuki would have turned Kazama down. Haruto realized this himself too, but it seems it was too brief for everyone to pick up on.
i sometimes question that. Kiyomi said Yuzuki and Kazama had been going out for only 3 months. Problem is that by the time this was mentioned it had actually been closer to 4 months since the trip and break up by that time.

1.5 months between the school trip and summer break
1 month for summer break
1 month before Haruto finally saw Yuzuki
another week or 2 before Kiyomi mentioned this

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
Yuzuki's only mistake was how she broke up with Haruto, and that wasn't even that big of a mistake for an insecure teenage girl either.
how Yuzuki broke up with Haruto is actually a very common way that is done amonst teenagers.
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Old 2011-01-15, 12:57   Link #5974
lightbringer
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The guy had a name, Kazama (or was it Kazuma? lol). All this "corpse bastard" and "maggot guy", I have no clue who you guys are talking about there . Basically, you are being immature for assigning such arbitrary labels just because you don't like a character.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
People forget that Haruto went out with Nanami on a "pretend date" sort of deal and Yuzuki saw them holding hands.
I always thought that was the catalyst for Eba's breakup, to be honest. It seemed like a big deal at the time, even though Eba didn't comment on it iirc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
Yuzuki's only mistake was how she broke up with Haruto, and that wasn't even that big of a mistake for an insecure teenage girl either.
She underestimated Haruto's attachment to her, which wasn't hard to do given how he acted and how he previously was drooling over Nanami.

Quote:
Originally Posted by satomianzaki View Post
now that eba is back, really can't wait...after all, she's the main heroine...
I'm getting more motivated about KNIM, too. The previous part of the college arc wasn't all that interesting to me, nor, in fact, anything that happened ever since Haruto left Hiroshima, but now, in the words of Keima, "I can already see the ending". Even though I primarily read KNIM for the pretty pictures, having Eba back on stage and a conclusion in sight is making me want to read it regularly again.
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Old 2011-01-15, 13:05   Link #5975
DragoZERO
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Originally Posted by cyberdemon View Post
i sometimes question that. Kiyomi said Yuzuki and Kazama had been going out for only 3 months. Problem is that by the time this was mentioned it had actually been closer to 4 months since the trip and break up by that time.

1.5 months between the school trip and summer break
1 month for summer break
1 month before Haruto finally saw Yuzuki
another week or 2 before Kiyomi mentioned this
We need a timeline.

Quote:
how Yuzuki broke up with Haruto is actually a very common way that is done amonst teenagers.
Even if it's common, it's still wrong.

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Originally Posted by lightbringer View Post
I always thought that was the catalyst for Eba's breakup, to be honest. It seemed like a big deal at the time, even though Eba didn't comment on it iirc.
Yeah, it was the last straw in a way. They were already rocky and then that happened.

Quote:
She underestimated Haruto's attachment to her, which wasn't hard to do given how he acted and how he previously was drooling over Nanami.
Exactly. She thought it was better for everyone if she broke up with Haruto, leaving him to Nanami, and her being with Kazama all the while missing Haruto as well. Her plan would have worked if Haruto didn't find that letter with such perfect wrong timing.

Last edited by DragoZERO; 2011-01-15 at 14:41.
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Old 2011-01-15, 13:20   Link #5976
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thread going in circles - my head is spinning
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Old 2011-01-15, 17:55   Link #5977
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Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Why would I dislike him? He didn't know that Eba was with someone when he asked her again to be his girlfriend until his death.

So essentially you're saying that it was wrong to ask Eba yet again? This is a position I can understand, but HE WAS DYING THEN, for crying out loud. I find it hard to blame him for this "selfishness". When you're dying in a hospital someday, you're going to send away all your friends and family not to expose them to pain? Really? Color me skeptical.
See this is where I'm very confused, why would you send all your loved ones away when you're on the verge of death. He has a chance to live, Kiyomi said that and he's not taking his chances. He just accepted the fact that he's going to die. And he used it to have Eba in his side.
And what's more he is "sending all his so-called love ones away" but he put Eba into the position where she will carry all the pain. Isn't that cruel? Isn't he in love with Eba? If he really loved Eba, he shouldn't cause pain to her. Isn't he thinking more of his own happiness at that point?

Quote:
Oh really? I see most of the old faces still around. What I have learned throughout the arc is that many readers lacked either the maturity or empathy to deal with a very uncommon situation in manga, namely the exposure to having people you care for die slowly.
so you mean while reading it, you don't find it aggravating. You don't find it frustrating. First of all, I already experience some of my loved ones dying before my eyes. I don't find that "corpse bastard" justifying he is going to die, especially when he can do motorcycle race for months, and he has a chance to live through surgery. I experienced how my grandmothers risk their own lives in those surgery. What's more they faced it without any fear of losing. While this "bastard" whines about he going to die, what's more he used it to force Eba to go out with him. He doesn't want to go to surgery because he is afraid of losing EBa. (Already explained it, we are running in circles.)


Quote:
Is that really so hard to grasp? This guy is barely 20 and about to die. Dying is a very scary and LONELY thing. So if you had been in your shoes, you'd have sent the girl you always loved away? Really? I don't believe you. In fact, I don't believe you have even an inkling how you'd feel in this situation.
HE has a chance to live. And he is a coward to deal with it. If I'm in his situation, I would never allow myself to force someone to be by my side just because I'm dying. (I think that's harrasment)

Quote:
Really, for me - who has experienced a comparable situation in the past - it is mindboggling how judgmental people can be who obviously don't have the slightest friggen clue how actully BEING in the situation of the characters would feel.
So you got a girlfriend stolen from you by your"best friend" because he is dying? Aren't you judgemental too? You just judged us "as clueless kids, immature and lacking empathy". Well thank you. I'm going to gobble it up in my stomach.
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Old 2011-01-15, 18:05   Link #5978
cloak_and_dagger
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Originally Posted by Haru~ View Post
HE has a chance to live. And he is a coward to deal with it. If I'm in his situation, I would never allow myself to force someone to be by my side just because I'm dying. (I think that's harrasment)
Truthfully, you never know what one will do when they realise their life span has been cut short; I've seen(ack, applying rl to manga again -_-) persons do a personality 1080 after they got diagnosed with cancer/life threatening diseases, so I wouldn't be so quick to call him a coward.
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Old 2011-01-15, 18:18   Link #5979
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Originally Posted by cloak_and_dagger View Post
Truthfully, you never know what one will do when they realise their life span has been cut short; I've seen(ack, applying rl to manga again -_-) persons do a personality 1080 after they got diagnosed with cancer/life threatening diseases, so I wouldn't be so quick to call him a coward.
Yes he is. If I'm in that position, I would take that. Even though it will not succeed, it's better than waiting for your death.
And what's more about his cowardness, he hides in Eba's skirt to escape from that. I've seen people crumble in that situation but I've seen people take chance without any fear whatsoever.
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Old 2011-01-15, 19:51   Link #5980
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Originally Posted by cloak_and_dagger View Post
Truthfully, you never know what one will do when they realise their life span has been cut short; I've seen(ack, applying rl to manga again -_-) persons do a personality 1080 after they got diagnosed with cancer/life threatening diseases, so I wouldn't be so quick to call him a coward.
When telling a story, all details are included for a reason, and all characters have a motive, whether other characters or the audience understand them or not. This is different from real life, where not everything goes in a intended direction, has a reason, or makes sense.

Kazama was intended to be a simple minded and direct. He was easy-going and relaxed. He liked motorcycling. He liked Eba, and confessed to her directly. That's all fine.

Somehow, he has an incurable terminal illness. That's a little cliche, but that's fine. Kazama doesn't like talking about his illness. That's fine too, because it fitted his character. Talking about his illness would bring unneeded drama and pity, bringing trouble to his easygoing life. All of that fit Kazama perfectly well

However, then came the truth behind Kazama and Eba's relationship. Despite not telling anyone about his illness, he took the initiative and told Eba about it. That contradicts his character, and his previously established motivations. He deliberately played the pity card, even when he was completely against it towards his best friends, Haruto and Asuka. There was nothing to compel him to bypass his morals and tell Eba about his sickness either. Seo left no indication that Kazama felt desperate at any point to where he had to tell Eba that he was going to die prematurely. Now, if he had collapsed from sickless and Eba found out on her own, then that would have fit. However, that did not happen.

Kazama's decision to tell Eba about his illness not only caused Eba to dump Haruto, but it also caused a few plot inconsistencies as well. Kazama told Haruto that he consistently confessed and asked Eba out until she finally conceded. Kazama started making a move on Eba in middle school. Eba went to Hiroshima and got together with Haruto when they were all in their high school years. If Kazama was constantly trying to win Eba over, why didn't he know about Haruto and Eba's time in Hiroshima until the three met in person, and why did Kazama never call Eba or Eba's family while she was in Hiroshima? This time gap in Kazama's efforts to win Eba over is never explained.

Then, there's the old love triangle between Haruto, Eba, and Nanami. With how Eba only suggested to break up after she spotted Haruto holding hands with Nanami (on their fake date), it seemed like Eba was shaken by it and broke up with Haruto because of Nanami. It would have made more sense too. However, that event turned out to have no meaning behind it, and Eba did just break up with Haruto out of the blue for Kazama. Why? Seo never left any indication that she was feeling guilty about Kazama's illness when she became Haruto's girlfriend. Seo left nothing to suggest that Eba thought about her obligation to Kazama beforehand. When the writing is that bad, Haruto was right to suspect something was wrong when he read Eba's break-up letter.

Even now, Seo could clearly let Eba tell Haruto whether or not she had any guys on mind. Why couldn't Eba tell Haruto about Kazama beforehand, if Nanami wasn't the reason for their breakup? The entire Kazama arc is just poorly planned writing, and Kazama and Eba's characters suffered for it.
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