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Old 2011-07-16, 06:07   Link #8221
night train
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Quote:
haruto will never go overseas... there's no eba there... or eba might pull another stunt if he turns around.. (oh sh*t, i shouldn't write "if's" from now on, im so used of writing it that ive just done it out of reflex)Please stop criticizing Seo and just say "that was a good chapter, i wonder what will happen next", or some people might get butthurt... "please don't talk bad about Eba and Haruto, they are the king and queen of righteousness... they will do anything for their love!!! other characters are just trash.." - president of "Eba<3Haruto 4ever Loyalist Movement"
WOW! If logic fails you, the next recourse is not so subtle personal attacks against me?
I seriously doubt your claim of maturity considering the repeated cases of childish tantrum you display when things do not go your way. First was against Bigspeed then now me and the countless times questioning my intelligence (1+1, ring any bells?). I'm done wasting my time with you.
BTW, "resist the darkness in you" might work in your sig but when you use it in an argument like this:
Quote:
ive actually done this, but the darkness inside me wanted the second option
It sounds corny as hell and doesn't carry any significant weight in supporting your argument. Sorry, but true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waven View Post
@mangaf: The difference is Mahou has a point , you didn't. He is describing facts and criticises them according to his opinion. Your main device of argumentation, however, were assumptions wrapped up like truths.

And don't give me that "bias" crap. You are equally shipping Asuka as you described it.
Bravo, Sir! I couldn't have said it better!
It's so refreshing to see people discussing the current arc rationally instead of blind shipping.

Last edited by night train; 2011-07-16 at 06:18.
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Old 2011-07-16, 06:53   Link #8222
mangaf_cksdotcom
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@ waven-nyaa..
is your above crap a fact? your opinion? or assumption?
give me one example that i said was not true... or is it also just your opinion that what i said was not true and make yourself believe that it is the fact because you assume that's what seo was thinking..

i give u one fact... you are not seo.
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Old 2011-07-16, 10:16   Link #8223
mangaf_cksdotcom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by night train View Post
WOW! If logic fails you, the next recourse is not so subtle personal attacks against me?
I seriously doubt your claim of maturity considering the repeated cases of childish tantrum you display when things do not go your way. First was against Bigspeed then now me and the countless times questioning my intelligence (1+1, ring any bells?). I'm done wasting my time with you.
i cant help but reply (out of reflex)... are u jumping in and out of your seat while typing this? Sir, the reason i did not reply because i will just be repeating what i said. it would be very difficult to find another procedure to compute 1+1=2...
actually i dont want to write "this is my last post" or something like that because eventually some people will still be replying, like i assume you will (out of reflex)... so i should better stop... i find it funny BTW, the reflex theory... "i only need 1 thing"= eba... "OMG! i don't have money" = takashi...

"TAKASHI, the answer for your money problems" - maybe i should upload this in verydemotivational.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by night train View Post
BTW, "resist the darkness in you" might work in your sig but when you use it in an argument like this: It sounds corny as hell and doesn't carry any significant weight in supporting your argument. Sorry, but true.
uh? was this about the 3 options? i wanted to do the right thing but something inside me wanted to do the bad thing? you don't experience something like this?you don't have a bad-side inside yourself? what's wrong using the word darkness as a "joke"?didnt u see Mr. there? you found it corny while you're already too old for mangas and animes?...
Quote:
Originally Posted by night train View Post
Bravo, Sir! I couldn't have said it better!
It's so refreshing to see people discussing the current arc rationally instead of blind shipping.
of course u couldn't.. something's lacking.. u could have written that before if u can think of it.. (oops..i assumed again..there's no proof that u can't think of that)

ok, enough of this.. i'll gain perfect abs just by laughing here.. and BTW, i connected all the infos in your personal story, and i quite understand why you favor haruto... so what can i do, that's your experience, so we see this differently... im not a fan of asuka (but nanami's) but i sympathize with her current situation.. both haruto and eba has their reasons but asuka was the "casualty" here.. it's not that we can change the story but we cant avoid discussions.. it's not like "she's just the side character, let's move on"... nevermind, nothing will happen if i go on
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Old 2011-07-16, 14:07   Link #8224
Waven
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mangaf_cksdotcom View Post
@ waven-nyaa..
is your above crap a fact? your opinion? or assumption?
give me one example that i said was not true... or is it also just your opinion that what i said was not true and make yourself believe that it is the fact because you assume that's what seo was thinking..

i give u one fact... you are not seo.
Sorry, I'm not going into a discussion with you, I saw others try it and reach a dead end due to your inablity to compromise. Let me just briefly note that the first thing I read from you was the ridiculous theory (which you insolently presented as a fact) that Eba was just waiting for Kazama to die so she could get back together with Haruto - what a fine start . Now and then I would read some other of your posts and tbh it didn't get better even a bit. Bold assumptions nearly everyone would argue against, yet you kept insisting.

And ofc everything I write is my opinion except I have evidence to back it up, everyone here does. Just once in a while someone comes along claiming to know the truth even though he got the exact same information just like everyone else and it clearly seems I'm not the only one to painfully recognize it.

Your post doesn't make sense btw, looks like someone hyperventilating wrote that.

Good day to you sir.
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Old 2011-07-16, 21:46   Link #8225
DanielSong39
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Man, this is getting too sad to read.

Haruto is so guilt-ridden that he's reduced to borrowing money and moving out, without telling his sister or his parents first.

If this isn't a red flag, I don't know what is.
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Old 2011-07-16, 22:07   Link #8226
cyberdemon
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Originally Posted by DanielSong39 View Post
Man, this is getting too sad to read.

Haruto is so guilt-ridden that he's reduced to borrowing money and moving out, without telling his sister or his parents first.

If this isn't a red flag, I don't know what is.
Aoi knows. Asuka even said Aoi told her. meaning the parents likely know by now
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Old 2011-07-17, 01:11   Link #8227
mangaf_cksdotcom
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Originally Posted by Waven View Post
that Eba was just waiting for Kazama to die so she could get back together with Haruto
are you telling me that she forced kazama to take surgery for a chance to live the next decade? not taking the surgery means waiting for death and she's aware of that. kiyomi who loved kazama so much, forced the surgery on him because her intention was for kazama to live. eba on the other hand, just said "i'll respect your decision", which was they'll just wait for his death...

and please don't tell me she wouldn't do something to get haruto back, it already happened and asuka was the casualty. you really thought confessing=goodbye?

ok, unless you show me the panel where eba convinced kazama to take the surgery so they could continue their "relationship" if he succeed, then i'll believe your opinion in it. i might have missed some pages.
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Old 2011-07-17, 12:58   Link #8228
cyberdemon
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Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by mangaf_cksdotcom View Post
are you telling me that she forced kazama to take surgery for a chance to live the next decade? not taking the surgery means waiting for death and she's aware of that. kiyomi who loved kazama so much, forced the surgery on him because her intention was for kazama to live. eba on the other hand, just said "i'll respect your decision", which was they'll just wait for his death...

and please don't tell me she wouldn't do something to get haruto back, it already happened and asuka was the casualty. you really thought confessing=goodbye?

ok, unless you show me the panel where eba convinced kazama to take the surgery so they could continue their "relationship" if he succeed, then i'll believe your opinion in it. i might have missed some pages.
Yuzuki even said that she had no intention of getting back together with haruto at the time. Sure 2 years can change things but yuzuki was serious at the time.

Yuzuki didn't force kazama to get the surgery because she felt it was her fault he wasn't getting it.because she said she would go out with him he changed his mind because he knew she wasn't in love with him and that she would end up leaving him if he survived

Last edited by cyberdemon; 2011-07-17 at 15:02.
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Old 2011-07-17, 14:14   Link #8229
solomon
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Okaaaaayy.

Busted through 143 chapters in a weekend (really gotta go outside some more).

Er, well I don't have any real hard feelings on whos with with who or what ever.

Just gotta say that Kouji Seo is pretty darn good when it comes to stories like this, managing to create such heated forum discussion!
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Old 2011-07-18, 03:18   Link #8230
mangaf_cksdotcom
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@waven-nyaa
i know sometimes i exaggerate to piss people off but i do have evidence to back it up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberdemon View Post
Yuzuki even said that she had no intention of getting back together with haruto at the time. Sure 2 years can change things but yuzuki was serious at the time.
it was chapter 92 when she told haruto, in front of kazama, that she had no intention getting back.
the way she said it, i say, that time when haruto challenged kazama to take back eba, Kazama was shocked and started to question them about this secret that eba told haruto to keep, so she immediately cut in and told haruto off. you obviously know why she wanted to keep it a secret, the truth will affect the "contract" and kazama himself.

but some people won't believe because it is just my "assumption" or "opinion"... so i'll bounce it back, saying that she was serious that time and that 2 years changed things is also just your assumption.. we dont know what happened for the 2 years she was gone..
but i can tell u a fact, she came back and confess because she loves haruto. (chapter 134-138 can be my evidence, she's kinda desperate too)
ch.134- "I..do have something, something that i've always wanted to tell you." and 3 chapters later, ch. 137, it was really a confession "im inlove with you, Haruto-kun"

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberdemon View Post
Yuzuki didn't force kazama to get the surgery because she felt it was her fault he wasn't getting it.because she said she would go out with him he changed his mind because he knew she wasn't in love with him and that she would end up leaving him if he survived
yes, he did not take the surgery to have a year of eba.. so kazama and eba decided to just wait for his death.. death was expected... it's a fact (ch.101, "if i was against the surgery just a little more, kyousuke would have been alive for a little bit longer"... "all i did was watch kyousuke-kun die")...

BUT, here comes our heroes:
because of haruto's and kiyomi's efforts (not Eba's, she's already set for kazama's 1 yr. duration), kazama changed his decision(ch.98), but still was unfortunate... also a fact... u can also refer ch.101

i understand why some guys can't accept it because i make it sound too evil for the beautiful and good eba, and she's the lead...
set aside haruto and kiyomi in the tokyo arc, just focus on eba because she's the one we're talking about...
she expected to lose kazama (fact mentioned above), then she will be alone but free again..(yes)
she has someone she loves(yes, his name is haruto)...
uhm, did she confessed to this guy?(yes, desperately)...

Kazama's gone, Eba's available, Haruto has a gf (who cares, be desperate and confess your love)...
actually, in the last 5 pages of ch.101, that was not an intended goodbye from eba, because the truth is she wanted to take him in that park in the spring. then there goes the "maybe" part.. but haruto did not answer...so it was a "later" for both of them...
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Old 2011-07-18, 06:07   Link #8231
Waven
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Answer me one thing: Why would an author depict the female lead of a ShoRom series as pure evil and conniving?

And sry, this is no evidence you present here. Evidence is what is actually written in the text, evidence is that she broke off all contact, evidence is that she didn't want to meet again (and only by chance they met each other 2 years later), it is also evidence that she said the surgery is Kazama's decision. This is evidence because it is clearly stated by the characters in the text and nowhere in the whole series has it been refuted or turned out to be a lie.

Your method of constructing a theory is solely based on you forcibly trying to read between the lines, even if there's nothing between at all. A proper interpretation uses statements as cornerstones and fills the gaps, all I see you draw on is the gaps.
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Old 2011-07-18, 06:34   Link #8232
Otani-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solomon View Post
Just gotta say that Kouji Seo is pretty darn good when it comes to stories like this, managing to create such heated forum discussion!
Definitely good, at making characters as annoying and unlikeable as possible.
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Old 2011-07-18, 07:17   Link #8233
ninetail1989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solomon View Post
Okaaaaayy.

Busted through 143 chapters in a weekend (really gotta go outside some more).

Er, well I don't have any real hard feelings on whos with with who or what ever.

Just gotta say that Kouji Seo is pretty darn good when it comes to stories like this, managing to create such heated forum discussion!
haha...tell me about..once i started reading kimi no iru machi...i seem to be extremly picky in shoujo manga...cant seem to find any good one at all now...(still looking for sugestion on Shoujo manga)
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Old 2011-07-18, 09:09   Link #8234
Mentar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mangaf_cksdotcom View Post
i know sometimes i exaggerate to piss people off but i do have evidence to back it up.
You confuse evidence with pure conjecture. The evidence is exactly that: She told Haruto that she was dating Kazama, and that she would not want to get back together with him even after Kazama's death. And guess what: She didn't! Afterwards, they parted ways, and it was only by pure coincidence they later met again.

Now you're constructing an absurd conspiracy theory out of that, namely that Eba always wanted to get Haruto back, right from the beginning. It doesn't explain why - if that was her intention - she didn't simply return to him right away. Why wait? It makes NO sense whatsoever. We're talking YEARS here.

Likewise, you keep on misconstruing what happened at the festival. Eba said GOODBYE - that was her plan from the beginning. Only after Haruto freaked out so much, she reconsidered and agreed to wait until Haruto sorted out his feelings. You act as if she tried to "steal him away". That, however, is completely unsupported by the facts. She was clearly surprised at his extreme reaction.
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Old 2011-07-18, 09:53   Link #8235
erfine
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It's obvious that Eba is to blame here. I mean, first she wrecked the relationship between Haruto and that minor character from the first arc (I was totally rooting for them, btw). Then she wrecked her own relationship with Haruto to date whats-his-face. Finally, she broke up Haruto's relationship with a palette-swap of the girl from the first arc. She's obviously in the story to troll destroy everyone's shipping prospects.

It's also clear that Eba is an evil mastermind. After all, she is Rin's big sis, and probably taught her everything that she knows. Besides, how else did Rin know that Haruto and the Nanami palette-swap's relationship was dead in the water like twenty chapters ago? They probably planned the whole fiasco together.

The readers are finally on to you, Eba. You and your tomato-hating ways. *shakes fist*
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Old 2011-07-18, 10:36   Link #8236
solomon
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Frankly I am surprised that there is such vitriol leveled at these characters. I noticed the same thing when Suzuka was being released. Kouji has a much better grasp on making characters interesting than other shonen romances. Although there is still the problem of a normal at best dude being surrounded by women interested him (I'd kill to be those shoes)...

Still, his protagonists actually seem to act like real people as opposed to traditonal manga archetypical tenchi-loser type lead. Plus you have a wide variety of females with various backgrounds and attitudes. Relationships actually PROGRESS, EVOLVE AND BREAK DOWN AND RENEW., I mean SHIT ACTUALLY HAPPENS as opposed to many manga of it's type.

So um basically I enjoy the work, but still regard it as "shonen romance escapist fantasy". Frankly, I don't see the reason to get so worked up about it. But then again, if you are still reading the thing and bawling about the characters that obviously means that the title has SOMETHING that attracts you.
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Old 2011-07-18, 11:47   Link #8237
Mahou
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Originally Posted by solomon View Post
Frankly I am surprised that there is such vitriol leveled at these characters. I noticed the same thing when Suzuka was being released. Kouji has a much better grasp on making characters interesting than other shonen romances. Although there is still the problem of a normal at best dude being surrounded by women interested him (I'd kill to be those shoes)...

Still, his protagonists actually seem to act like real people as opposed to traditonal manga archetypical tenchi-loser type lead. Plus you have a wide variety of females with various backgrounds and attitudes. Relationships actually PROGRESS, EVOLVE AND BREAK DOWN AND RENEW., I mean SHIT ACTUALLY HAPPENS as opposed to many manga of it's type.

So um basically I enjoy the work, but still regard it as "shonen romance escapist fantasy". Frankly, I don't see the reason to get so worked up about it. But then again, if you are still reading the thing and bawling about the characters that obviously means that the title has SOMETHING that attracts you.
Hatedom (to put it in exaggeration) makes people gather together; you may take a look at OMF's Fairy Tail subforum . Furthermore, some KNIM readers started reading with a good impression, but later on have been majorly disappointed by Seo's BS *cought˘ky˘arccough*. And then there are readers who only keep reading to see how this "mess" will end.
Personally I find Hehruto very unlikeable generally. He emits mostly some kind of unfriendly vibe as if most people who talk to him (with exceptions here and there) are an annoyance. He has changed a little by now, of course, but he certainly doesn't count to my "favorite male leads". SHIZ HAPPENS *can* be a good thing, but can also backfire very easily. Most of SH*T hits the fan by Seo Kouji has not been good drama - as I'd like to call it.

As a sidenote to my last post: Although I defended Asuka, I have always been a Yuzuki fan since the very beginning. Asuka and he were a - well - cute couple and their ending up together would have been fine. Though by now, I really don't care who ends with whom as long as it will be somewhat, remotely reasonable.
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Old 2011-07-18, 12:10   Link #8238
lightbringer
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Originally Posted by ninetail1989 View Post
haha...tell me about..once i started reading kimi no iru machi...i seem to be extremly picky in shoujo manga...cant seem to find any good one at all now...(still looking for sugestion on Shoujo manga)
Does KNIM count as shoujo these days?

Great shoujo manga (non-exhaustive list): Vampire Knight, Marmalade Boy, Tokyo Crazy Paradise, Aishiteruze Baby, Angel Sanctuary, From Far Away, Recipe of Gertrude, Akagami no Shirayukihime, Kodocha, Milk Crown, Mekakushi no Kuni, Mars, Penguin Brothers, Please Save My Earth, The Changelings, Vampire Game, W-Juliet
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Old 2011-07-18, 15:14   Link #8239
Darknemo2000
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I never could figure out why Vampire Knight is supposed to be a great shoujo manga. personally I thought it to be very retarded and extremely overrated.

My recomendations of good shoujo would be: Special A, Dengeki Daisy ( I liked it more up until 30 chapters or so, then it started getting weak), Kaichou Wa Maidsama, Limited Lovers, Otona no Jikan, Pink Lady, Running Through The City In The Sunset, Sakura Irony, Wish To Lie Beside You, You Are My Girlfriend (one of my favorites cause its pretty unusual), Kodomo No Omocha, Lovely Complex, Monkey High, Stroke Material, Platonic Porno and pretty much every manga by Usami Maki.

If you dont mind going to the adult/mature zone then Fuuga works though not shoujo and go to hentai territory are still great, Velvet Kiss by Chihiro is also very recommended.
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Old 2011-07-18, 15:16   Link #8240
AcroDave
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Originally Posted by Mahou View Post
Asuka was more boring than Nanami, your typical quiet and gentle girl character in a ShoRom? I agree to disagree on this. It's only Seo's fault that Asuka's development was stopped once she got together with Hehruto. Instead of broadening their "relationship", what did Fail Kouji do? He introduced Shiori, who was reaaaally necessary, yeah right, instead of progressing the relationship between Heh und Asuka. And ~ he timeskipped their relationship without any kind of information of development. With that it was bound to end as it did.
eheh, it sounds more like we agree to agree. Regardless of the reason (ie: poor writing), Asuka is a boring character. She was off to a strong start by barging in with her baseball bat, and I liked the whole 'DON'T LOOK DOWN ON THE COUNTRYSIDE!' part... but what did she do after that? She was just kind of 'there' in the whole Kazama arc. Did she even do anything beside stand there looking uncomfortable? I honestly don't remember, since she had no impact on the story. And now she's just the place-holder girl for Haruto to dump. At least if it was Nanami we (the readers) would have some investment in the outcome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solomon View Post
Frankly I am surprised that there is such vitriol leveled at these characters. I noticed the same thing when Suzuka was being released. Kouji has a much better grasp on making characters interesting than other shonen romances.
Seo definitely excels at being a world-class troll.

But I think you sort of answer your own question there. One thing I learned from reading Bakuman is that the most important thing a manga has to have is to be interesting. So by stirring up the outrage in his readers, he keeps them coming back because we have to see what happens next! Just reading the awesome flame-wars in this forum is ample evidence of his trolling-skills.
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