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Old 2008-11-17, 21:25   Link #1321
Fynal_Fyre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabiki Asakura View Post
btw, forgot to say something, a little coment about episode 9 preview....

Spoiler:
If ToA had joke omakes...

Also, every group needs it's own little spoilt brat. I'm no fan of Luke's over-reliance on Van; but it'll probably change him for the better, given the betrayal and whatnot
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Old 2008-11-17, 21:42   Link #1322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freya View Post
Luke is so stupid and idiotic that he'll listen to ANYTHING that Van tells him to.

Van: Luke go jump off that cliff.
Luke: Yes sensei!!!
Well maybe more like "Luke go jump off that cliff and magical pixy wings will sprout from your back." And yeah he'd still probably jump off the cliff. Good thing Van only asked him to destroy a city .
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Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
And have you played the game? Because one of Asche's lines does go into that. "House Fabre must have some very stupid genes." one of my favourite scenes.
Didn't remember that part, but a pretty funny line.
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Old 2008-11-17, 22:13   Link #1323
Sterling01
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Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
Didn't remember that part, but a pretty funny line.
IIRC Asch says it if you beat him.
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Old 2008-11-17, 23:52   Link #1324
Craymel
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this is a pretty good adaptation of the game playing out exactly as it should. Oh by the way all of you Luke haters you should hate him that just proves that this is a good adaptation :P

Spoiler for Tales of the abyss 8 and maybe plot spoiler.:
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Old 2008-11-18, 02:10   Link #1325
Nvenya
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I think Luke's great and he keeps the story interesting for me. If he had been killed by Asch here I probably would have never finished the game.

I can't stand Asch mostly because
Spoiler:
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Old 2008-11-18, 02:29   Link #1326
vspirit
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Hm, if this wasn't Luke we know, but just some other 7 year-old kid who actually looks seven and possesses some sort of destructive power, with his only father figure someone like Van whose sole reason in getting close to him was to manipulate him for said power...would you be pissed off with the kid? Sure, his attitude is bad even for a 7 year-old (I've seen 3 year-olds who behave better xD) which makes you want to smack him upside the head like his parents should have but in the end, you'd blame the parents and/or the guardian, wouldn't you? So I'm guessing it's most likely because Luke doesn't look like he's seven that people find it easier to blame him. It's only natural, I suppose. It'd be impossible, however, for him to not grow up after the events in episode 8 so those who have written him off now might want to re-evaluate him later. I imagine his dozen or so fans will increase significantly then. =)

Still, there is a lot less bashing than I expected. Quite a bunch of deep thinkers here, I see. xD
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Old 2008-11-18, 03:06   Link #1327
yolin.shana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabiki Asakura View Post
It's just my imagination or Luke has less than 10 fans? Probably my imagination, but, based in the game or the anime, people seems to love more Asch(specially girls) than Luke(not like there's something wrong, Luke is such a...........argh)
Some people beg to differ :
Before the game was even out~
After the game was out~
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Old 2008-11-18, 03:33   Link #1328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vspirit View Post
Hm, if this wasn't Luke we know, but just some other 7 year-old kid who actually looks seven and possesses some sort of destructive power, with his only father figure someone like Van whose sole reason in getting close to him was to manipulate him for said power...would you be pissed off with the kid? Sure, his attitude is bad even for a 7 year-old (I've seen 3 year-olds who behave better xD) which makes you want to smack him upside the head like his parents should have but in the end, you'd blame the parents and/or the guardian, wouldn't you? So I'm guessing it's most likely because Luke doesn't look like he's seven that people find it easier to blame him. It's only natural, I suppose. It'd be impossible, however, for him to not grow up after the events in episode 8 so those who have written him off now might want to re-evaluate him later. I imagine his dozen or so fans will increase significantly then. =)

Still, there is a lot less bashing than I expected. Quite a bunch of deep thinkers here, I see. xD
If it actually was a seven year old there might be different feelings on it. Your only as old as you feel after all . I mean if he is treated like he's a teenager, feels he's a teenager, even if he only has 7 years worth of memories could still treat him like a teenager. I mean its not like we chop years off our ages depending on how many years of life we remember experiencing. That could open a whole new age of criminal responsibility right there . Other than skipping years as a toddler and some childhood years Luke grew up like a normal kid in a strange environment. In the end I think the issue has to more with people around him, how he was treated, his own personality shaping relationships, and Van's influence.

How people see him will depend on the overall trip.
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Old 2008-11-18, 03:37   Link #1329
NoLongerSane
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I thought this episode was going to be shown with episode 9 this coming weekend. I enjoyed watching this episode since it is the start of a turning point for Luke. I have to agree, his break down was done better than what the game did. I was wondering if they were going to animate that part with the child, but I was glad that part was passed over. Looks like the preview for the next episode has Luke making a change in his life.
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Old 2008-11-18, 03:38   Link #1330
OceanBlue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vspirit View Post
Still, there is a lot less bashing than I expected. Quite a bunch of deep thinkers here, I see. xD
Is it just me, or does this sound like it suggests that if you bash Luke, you aren't a deep thinker? Well, it's obvious you don't mean it like that, but....

I'm surprised too. I expected more Luke bashing, if only because Sunrise did a good job of portraying him as a selfish jerk in the last episode.

I laugh at the popularity chart, since it convinces me that the majority of Tales of... fans are girls, even if it's just my prejudice. I'm amazed that Natalia is behind Anise, Ion, and Sync though. Isn't it sad, Natalia?

Ah, can't wait for episode 9.
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Old 2008-11-18, 06:08   Link #1331
vspirit
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^It /does/ sound that way, doesn't it? Oops. How very politically incorrect of me. Condescendence wasn't what I had in mind but if I sounded that way, my apologies. I do, however, think bashing and criticizing are two different things. And, by bashing, I had more, "Oh! That Luke is so bloody annoying, I don't care what his situation is, he deserves to die just because he's an annoying prat who refuses to grow up" in my mind, which in case it's clear that that line of thinking is more immediate feeling and less actual thinking.

Nothing wrong with that either, as long as it's anime. People still have the right to bash. Anime is also about feeling, after all. Some of us don't like having to think about it too much. I have prepared myself to be amused but the unexpected low count of it is actually rather...sobering, I must say.
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Old 2008-11-18, 06:38   Link #1332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vspirit View Post
It'd be impossible, however, for him to not grow up after the events in episode 8 so those who have written him off now might want to re-evaluate him later. I imagine his dozen or so fans will increase significantly then. =)
I can see it as possible if he goes emo (which is something game players have been saying) though even I would like to see a true hero at the end of the day...he is supposed to be the main character afterall, there is no use in keeping him useless throughout the entire series. But for now! It is just a heck of a lot of fun to "bash" him until the time comes for repentance

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
If it actually was a seven year old there might be different feelings on it. Your only as old as you feel after all . I mean if he is treated like he's a teenager, feels he's a teenager, even if he only has 7 years worth of memories could still treat him like a teenager.
What he said.

I don't buy the "7 year old" excuse at all. It is a very psychological thing that he is treated like a teen and therefore will act like one. The "7 years" excuse only contributes to his lack of experience but seriously, he is a pampered prince in the first place so perhaps no amount of years experience living in the palace would make him grow up. Blame the parents but the kid also holds responsibility for his own actions...especially when there are already others telling him to stop acting like a brat but does he ever listen?
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Old 2008-11-18, 07:18   Link #1333
SuperKnuckles
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It really is a matter of poor communication skills though. If Luke wasn't so defensive about it, then he'd come across as a victim better. Constantly pushing away others and you expect everyone else to be frank with you? That's just not logical, even for friends. Also, it's not like anyone chided him or anything. A silent treatment and a few comments? psh. Asch put it to him like someone should have. And again, it seems like most of Luke's old friends are recalling the kinder, more understanding Luke of the past anyway. So the replica really came off as a replica in the end. No surprise. Also, I'm guessing the reason why master Ion was a bit gloomy too was because he knows he was a part of it. And I think it's pretty obvious that everyone knows that Van is the reason for it by now. Typical turning point moment in RPGs, but it had to happen. For it to be animated with such subtlety.. I loved it.
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Old 2008-11-18, 07:32   Link #1334
BigJimmy
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Originally Posted by Deathkillz View Post
Blame the parents but the kid also holds responsibility for his own actions...especially when there are already others telling him to stop acting like a brat but does he ever listen?
Ah, but therein lies the problem. If you just tell a kid to stop acting like a brat, they act up worse. Then along comes Mr Understanding, calm, patient, and most importantly DOESN'T treat you like an idiot. Hell, ADULTS would follow what that guy says under those circumstances, let alone a confused child.
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Old 2008-11-18, 07:38   Link #1335
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I think whether is it being fair to Luke or not doesn't matter, he needs to have this rude awakening now. If anything the rest of the party had been too tolerant for too long. If they don't crush him now, who knows for how long is he going to keep up this stunt of his? And what if he does something worse next time?
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Old 2008-11-18, 07:51   Link #1336
yolin.shana
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Originally Posted by Deathkillz View Post
I can see it as possible if he goes emo (which is something game players have been saying) though even I would like to see a true hero at the end of the day...
No. Luke doesn't go emo. Those who think that haven't given him enough attention while playing.
Sticking the greneric "emo" etiquette (could also be "Mary Sue", etc) to characters you don't like just because you don't want to think of a valid reason for your hatred is very annoying, especially because in 90% of the cases the character doesn't even fit the definition of the word.
Luke, emo? He's like one of the most cheerful character of this story (Anise and Mieu competing for first place, of course) !
So what if he sometimes gets sad/feels guilty? That's normal feelings, after all. Everyone has those at some point. I don't see how it could be signs of emo-ness.

(PS : generic "you", of course )
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Old 2008-11-18, 08:11   Link #1337
kujoe
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Originally Posted by Deathkillz View Post
I don't buy the "7 year old" excuse at all. It is a very psychological thing that he is treated like a teen and therefore will act like one. The "7 years" excuse only contributes to his lack of experience but seriously, he is a pampered prince in the first place so perhaps no amount of years experience living in the palace would make him grow up. Blame the parents but the kid also holds responsibility for his own actions...especially when there are already others telling him to stop acting like a brat but does he ever listen?
I agree with this.

Luke may be seven years old, but you can't judge him in the same way you would judge a seven year old human being. As a replica, the rules of maturation are vastly different. One being, that their mental growth isn't proportionate to their actual physical appearance.

They're practically copies (not exactly clones) after all, so if you create a replica from an old man, you'll get an old man with a mind of an infant for the first few days or so, depending on how you treat him and how he matures.

Luke may be seven years old, but he learned to be a bratty, spoiled, seventeen year old noble inexperienced with the outside world, and he definitely acts like one.
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Old 2008-11-18, 08:20   Link #1338
Shiroth
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Originally Posted by Deathkillz View Post
Blame the parents but the kid also holds responsibility for his own actions...especially when there are already others telling him to stop acting like a brat but does he ever listen?
Luke never listened to what the group was telling him because in his mind he was following the right path, the only path he knows about. I'm not saying that Luke wasn't responsible for what happened in this episode, just that we can't really blame him for the way he's been acting.

But yeah, people are right when saying that this had to happen, including the group saying what they did to Luke after it happened. Also like i said, Luke finding out he is a replica of Asch was perfect timing. I look forward to seeing what type of person Luke will become because of these events.
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Old 2008-11-18, 09:38   Link #1339
vspirit
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Originally Posted by Deathkillz View Post
I can see it as possible if he goes emo (which is something game players have been saying) though even I would like to see a true hero at the end of the day...he is supposed to be the main character afterall, there is no use in keeping him useless throughout the entire series. But for now! It is just a heck of a lot of fun to "bash" him until the time comes for repentance
Quote:
Originally Posted by yolin.shana View Post
No. Luke doesn't go emo. Those who think that haven't given him enough attention while playing.
Sticking the greneric "emo" etiquette (could also be "Mary Sue", etc) to characters you don't like just because you don't want to think of a valid reason for your hatred is very annoying, especially because in 90% of the cases the character doesn't even fit the definition of the word.
Luke, emo? He's like one of the most cheerful character of this story (Anise and Mieu competing for first place, of course) !
So what if he sometimes gets sad/feels guilty? That's normal feelings, after all. Everyone has those at some point. I don't see how it could be signs of emo-ness.

(PS : generic "you", of course )
Mmm...he goes through severe emotional trauma, yes. But I do also agree that the word 'emo' makes it sound redundant and a lot less serious. This isn't. But if emo's the word you use for any sort of emotional angst, then I suppose he does. Become 'emo', that is. It's emotional /and/ mental, though. Jarring doesn't even begin to cover it when you're not just betrayed but you're betrayed in the worst way and end up with innocent blood on your hands. It's the kind of thing you'd go through as well if you were put in his shoes.
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Old 2008-11-18, 09:51   Link #1340
powermojo
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very good INDEED

really interesting, I want to see how Luke develop from bad-to-good from this state
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