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Old 2008-06-20, 12:57   Link #101
cloak_and_dagger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ichimaru View Post
so if shinji is going to try and get aizen back, wtf did shinji and the vizards wait for 100yrs to plot there revenge? there was nothing stopping them from doing it even without waitin 100yrs. This just shows us how weak these vizards are.....or not confidence in themselves

Even if they join the winter war, SS would still try and dissolve them since they are not on equal terms....
URMMM..he was in SOUL SOCIETY...you expect them to invade SS to kill Aizen? and who exactly would believe, even if they gave them the chance, the stories of 'willing' partcipants in a hollow transformation technique? Central 46 would have the same verdict. They had to wait for Aizen to make a move; after talking to Urahara they would have realised that Aizen's probable goals reagrding hollow experiments and that he was eventually going to leave SS...attacking a seemingly innocent Aizen would bring the full SS attack against them. Aizen probably knew anyway that they were alive and kicking since he knew Urahara had the hogyouku. They're not weak...just not dumb enough to get themselves killed unecessarily.
What I'm curious to find out is whether or not they forgave SS knowing that they were tricked by Aizen or still hold contempt against them and want to purge both sides. Now that would be interesting. Impossible(because of our hero Ichigo), but interesting.
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Old 2008-06-20, 13:01   Link #102
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Even if the vizards join the ss group, I still think aizen has a plan to deal with them. he knows of their existence. so far in the entire series, aizen has yet to be defeated or have a plan defeated even once.
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Old 2008-06-20, 13:05   Link #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post
Or...Shinji could be grateful for showing him SS's true face. For them to callously dispose of them as Hollows...If I were Shinji I that would put a bee in my bonnet. <---SS probably had a good reason, but it's seems callous.

Flawed Good Guys...I just love it.

Btw, I would just die if I didn't say this...I TOLD YOU...Aizen had powers of HYPNOSIS and NOT JUST Illusion. He just tried to pull that "I have mind control over Deebo" on Urahara just like he did on Renji. He was not asking because he thought Renji would respect the chain of command....

He said it again..Kyōka Suigetsu abilities is complete hypnosis,(For the second time) not "You are trapped in illusion...

Would have killed me...

*What I'm wondering* Where does Isshin fit into all this? Ryukken too...
Dude that is nothing but an illusion, otherwise TOUSEN (the freaking nuts of Aizen) would be affected by Hypnosis. Aizen explains his abilitiy as deceiving an individual which is an illusion.

BTW, as far as Shinji saying he is in debt to Urahara that was sincere for his devotion of healing them but when they said they are indebted to Aizen he was the one who gave them incredible powers but they are still pissed and they plan on getting their revenge from the look of their facial expression when they said Aizen's name.

Last edited by Phenomenal; 2008-06-20 at 13:21.
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Old 2008-06-20, 13:28   Link #104
lequory
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Hypnosis

1. an artificially induced trance state resembling sleep, characterized by heightened susceptibility to suggestion.
2. hypnotism.


Illusion

1. something that deceives by producing a false or misleading impression of reality.
2. the state or condition of being deceived; misapprehension.
3. an instance of being deceived.
4. Psychology. a perception, as of visual stimuli (optical illusion), that represents what is perceived in a way different from the way it is in reality.
5. a very thin, delicate tulle of silk or nylon having a cobwebbed appearance, for trimmings, veilings, and the like.
6. Obsolete. the act of deceiving; deception; delusion.


I'm siding with he creates illusions until I'm told by the author something else. I had some things to point out. The whole argument about when and where the Hogyoku was placed in Rukia is screwed. Kubo himself didn't go back and check some things he said himself that messes up when it was placed in her. I don't care who placed it in her. I'm more worried about when it was placed in her. Heres a few things I'm concerned with.

1. 50 years ago Hisana(Byakuya's wife) died and she made him make that promise to find her little sister. Rukia was a little child then at the time even if they do age slowly that makes it impossible for her to be as big as she is now. Basically she's a 15 year old.

2. #1 makes it impossible for Rukia to even be around when these flashbacks took place. If she was around back then she was an embryo and they grow mighty slow.

3. Rukia has said she has lived 10 of Ichigo's lives. 10 * 15 = 150??????

4. Hayashi is right to smell something a little fishy about all this. Once I read his comments I went back and checked myself.

5. How in the hell does Aizen know of the Hogyoku in the first place when Urahara takes it out for the 1st time back at his lab?

6. Aizen said Urahara never once used the Hogyoku?

7. Like everyone else has said....Isshin???? Ryuken??? Where were they at

8. My final comment....I'm going back to believing that when Rukia transferred her powers, she also transfered some Hogyoku juice into Ichigo who in turn through his reiatsu leakage gave his 2 best friends, Chado and Inoue, their powers.


Forgot to add that I do not think that Aizen knows the Vaizards survived. All he's every said was that Urahara was exiled. I think Aizen is in for a big surprise next week. <<<This is my prediction

Last edited by lequory; 2008-06-20 at 13:52.
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Old 2008-06-20, 13:32   Link #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finalnight View Post
Even if the vizards join the ss group, I still think aizen has a plan to deal with them. he knows of their existence. so far in the entire series, aizen has yet to be defeated or have a plan defeated even once.
I am not sure if Aizen knows that Shinji is still around. Uruhara had hidden the Hogyoku (sp?) before he left soul society. As far as Aizen knew, Shinji and the rest are dead.

Also Shinji and co might have a bone to pick with 46 but 46 is dead. The captains are old friends of their who probably didn't even know what happen to them other then what was told to them by 46.
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Old 2008-06-20, 13:39   Link #106
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back to the battle..but what i want to know is where jinta and ururu come from.

the last frame in the manga is AWESOME.
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Old 2008-06-20, 14:06   Link #107
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Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
They didn't let him talk...




Aizen should know that they are still alive. After all he knew that Urahara and Tessai escaped, so he could conclude, that they took the experiments with him. Unless it was Yoruichi who got the task of executing the Vaizards and she reported that she killed them, before going out to rescue Urahara and Tessai.
But even then: Shinji rescued Ichigo from Grimmjaw, so Aizen should know.


BTW, I think it would be cool to see the Vaizards leave their Gigais... and obviously wear their Shinigami clothes again.
Which makes me think: Since all of them were captains and vicecaptains, do they have the necessary limiters in their Gigais?
The questions is did grimjaw ever mention that to anyone?
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Old 2008-06-20, 14:06   Link #108
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Why are peoples so stuck up on Isshin, he wasn't included in the flashback, that can only mean only another thing.. he's involved in another part of Aizen's plan, which is the king of SS and the royal guard.

^ Even if GJ isnt talking.. There's Emoboy. and his eyes.
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Old 2008-06-20, 14:19   Link #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
The questions is did grimjaw ever mention that to anyone?
Grimjaw asked Shinji his name to commence the fight. But in a blasphemous break of Bleachtradition, Shinji refused to give it to him, saying it didn't matter.
Regardless, if either Ulquiorra or Grimm had described Shinji, Aizen would've recognized it. Shinji probably doesn't care though.
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Old 2008-06-20, 14:31   Link #110
lequory
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirali1985 View Post
Grimjaw asked Shinji his name to commence the fight. But in a blasphemous break of Bleachtradition, Shinji refused to give it to him, saying it didn't matter.
Regardless, if either Ulquiorra or Grimm had described Shinji, Aizen would've recognized it. Shinji probably doesn't care though.
I think his name wasn't said for the sake of the element of surprise. I've stated in my post about and hour ago that I do not think Aizen knows that Urahara got away with all 8 of his "Experiments".

Why else would Aizen state that Urahara never once used the Ball.
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Old 2008-06-20, 14:42   Link #111
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btw.. the 46 guys didn't even mention the untraceable gigai when sentencing Urahara/Tessai so Aizen at least lied regarding that point
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Old 2008-06-20, 14:52   Link #112
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Yamamoto is a freaking dickhead, since he's been fooled twice by Aizen, yet he seems he's never ashamed of it.
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Old 2008-06-20, 14:52   Link #113
Anima
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Originally Posted by The Phenomenol View Post
Dude that is nothing but an illusion, otherwise TOUSEN (the freaking nuts of Aizen) would be affected by Hypnosis. Aizen explains his abilitiy as deceiving an individual which is an illusion.
First of all, OD is a "dudette" as she prefers it
As for Aizen's shikai, I think it really doesn't matter if it's hypnosis or illusion altho I tend to think it's the former. Because in reality a person under hypnosis can be "deceived" to see/believe things as the one who put him/her in hypnosis would suggest to him/her. I've read once that a woman was hypnotized and was told that her purse was actually her cat and she simply treated it like that.

My point is, hypnosis makes one sees illusions as the "hypnotizer" wants it and Aizen said the key to being "deceived" is seeing his released zampaktu which is why Tousen can't fall for such a thing.

Back to the present, as much as I am anticipating the karakura battle, I am almost positive that the vizards and SS will lose or will be on the verge of losing to Aizen
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Old 2008-06-20, 15:00   Link #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WONDERMIKE View Post
btw.. the 46 guys didn't even mention the untraceable gigai when sentencing Urahara/Tessai so Aizen at least lied regarding that point
wats also interesting about that is it seems the 46 didnt know of this but aizen did, i get the feeling aizen was spying on urahara and learnt of hollowfication this way. Also, how exactly did the 46 find out all about urahara and hollowfication, and how did urahara find out about hollowfication? experiments on himself maybe? finally what role will mayuri play in all this since he was for some reason hand picked by urahara.

I wonder know how kt will handle the plot from this point on, will the vizards be bad guys or victims or heros?

I sense that the urahara thought he had failed back then when we hadnt and that the vizard wernt changing back to normal willingly after experiencing the new power, the last few frames with the vizard wer prty eerie, and im not sure wat to make of their intentions but i think their actions could be of the following : fight aizen OR join him and refill his espada ranks to make aizens real dream team, either way they will want revenge or at least acceptance from SS.

i was rewatching the ep where isshin and urahara meet, it seems that isshin doesnt know about the reality of the vizard but only the ss side of it but he did know about aizen despite being out of ss b4 aizen publicly revealed himself - my guess is isshin uncovered something about aizen but was similarly framed like urahara and banished or he was victim to one of aizens experiments but again was banished.

[EDIT] theory : Yamamoto and SS know more about aizen and wat happened in the past then they sho, their recent preparations suggest they arnt as dumb as theyv acted b4.
Also y did aizen hav to kill the 46, he doesnt neccasserily hav to kill evry1 above him to rule over em

Last edited by kadenza; 2008-06-20 at 15:15.
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Old 2008-06-20, 16:53   Link #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allamanda View Post
Yamamoto is a freaking dickhead, since he's been fooled twice by Aizen, yet he seems he's never ashamed of it.
I wouldn't be so sure, If Yamamoto says he knew what Aizen was up to all along in these upcoming chapters that is going to be funny.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anima
First of all, OD is a "dudette" as she prefers it
As for Aizen's shikai, I think it really doesn't matter if it's hypnosis or illusion altho I tend to think it's the former. Because in reality a person under hypnosis can be "deceived" to see/believe things as the one who put him/her in hypnosis would suggest to him/her. I've read once that a woman was hypnotized and was told that her purse was actually her cat and she simply treated it like that.

My point is, hypnosis makes one sees illusions as the "hypnotizer" wants it and Aizen said the key to being "deceived" is seeing his released zampaktu which is why Tousen can't fall for such a thing.

Back to the present, as much as I am anticipating the karakura battle, I am almost positive that the vizards and SS will lose or will be on the verge of losing to Aizen
Thanks for the heads up about OD and the hypnosis bit.

I don't see Soul Society losing to Aizen, actually I see both sides taking major injuries in this battle. Aizen was right to cut SS forces in half Unohana, Byakuya Kenpachi etc probably would have been overkill against the Espada.
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Old 2008-06-20, 17:41   Link #116
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I still stand behind conclusion that Urahara's only way to return Ichigo to shinigami was a hollowification.
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Old 2008-06-20, 18:15   Link #117
Sabaku Kyu
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Originally Posted by The Phenomenol View Post
I don't see Soul Society losing to Aizen, actually I see both sides taking major injuries in this battle. Aizen was right to cut SS forces in half Unohana, Byakuya Kenpachi etc probably would have been overkill against the Espada.
Aizen's side is still going to be overwhelmed if they have to deal with the vizard and the remaining captains (not to mention Urahara, Tessai, Yourichi, Isshin and Ryuuken if they decide to show up). That's why I'm not sure the vizard are going to help SS. It 'd be extremely one-sided. Of course, I doubt they help Aizen either. This might be a three-sided war.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mugenTaichou View Post
I still stand behind conclusion that Urahara's only way to return Ichigo to shinigami was a hollowification.
Yeah, originally it seemed like the hollow powers were a unintentional side-effect. But now, who knows?
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Old 2008-06-20, 18:18   Link #118
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Those 46 old guys of dickery are like a poor man's retarded version of SEELE. Their motto is "Above the starry-sky God will judge, the way we have made a mess of the judicial system by failing to listen to suspects and witnesses"

It's not as catchy, but it gets to the point.
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Old 2008-06-20, 18:54   Link #119
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So after reading the chapter, I am very confused as to whose side the vizards will join.

Reasons to join SS:
-They owe their lives to Urahara, Tessai and Yoruichi
-Urahara saved them from turning into complete hollows by using the Hougyoku, thus allowing the shinigami to battle their inner hollows and eventually beating them to gain control of their hollow powers.
-They trained Ichigo and helped him control his inner hollow.
-Hirako fought against Grimmjow and prior to shooting a cero blast at him he said: "Sorry about this arrancar. Since you seem to be strong, I won't be going easy on you". Thus, Hirako saw him as a threat that needed to be squashed.
-Shinji never trusted Aizen and always supected of him.
-Urahara said the vizards would be valuable allies in the battle against Aizen's army.

Reasons to join Espada:
-If it weren't for Aizen, they would never have achieved their hollow powers.
-SS gave orders to kill them as hollows, even though they were clearly the victims of Aizen's experiment.
-Espada ranks are outnumbered by SS, so it would be interesting to see the vizards fight against shinigami.
-Aizen seems too confident, regardless of the fact that he only has 3 Espada (and their respective fraccion). I don't like that arrogance.

But then again, I think the vizards will fight alongside SS. Plus, it seems to me they have been in contact w/ Urahara since they came to earth. And SS (or at least Yamamoto) has been in contact w/ Urahara.
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Old 2008-06-20, 19:10   Link #120
cloak_and_dagger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anima View Post
Back to the present, as much as I am anticipating the karakura battle, I am almost positive that the vizards and SS will lose or will be on the verge of losing to Aizen
That is shounen law (one must be near death to achieve victory vs evil); though I doubt the vizards will fight alongside SS.
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