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Old 2008-06-20, 19:49   Link #121
WONDERMIKE
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I'm 99% sure the Vizards are out on revenge against Aizen. My prediction: Aizen + gang dominates the Gotei 13, after that the Vizards show off and decimate the Espada and Fraccion to a point where Aizen just smiles and brings out his Vastolorde. After that Vizards and Gotei 13 are the underdogs, have to join forces and win because of already mentioned Shonen law for the chance they don't manage to defeat Aizen then there's still the Zero Division or whatever awaits us in the king's realm(that's where Isshin could enter the stage).
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Old 2008-06-20, 19:50   Link #122
King Ashram
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All I gotta say is that I had a funny feeling that shinji was answering to someone above him I just didnt know when it came up (when shinji was trying to first convince ichigo to join the vizards).

Also very epic conclusion to the flashback and explanation of why urahara/yuroichi left as well as who tessai is and how vizards came to be.

I personally think that the vizards will fight ss with the exception of urahara and gang. SS will become overwhelmed when urahara/isshen/father quincy(i cant remember the name atm >.<)/yuroichi will show up and will duke it out until Aizen manages to make the key and use it. half way through using it Ichigo will show up and be like "Sup... WTF IS THAT DAD?".
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Old 2008-06-20, 19:56   Link #123
cloak_and_dagger
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This is one manga where I can't see the hero beating the ultimate enemy single-handedly.
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Old 2008-06-20, 20:26   Link #124
Monkey D. Luffy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tennis1690 View Post
So after reading the chapter, I am very confused as to whose side the vizards will join.

Reasons to join SS:
-They owe their lives to Urahara, Tessai and Yoruichi
-Urahara saved them from turning into complete hollows by using the Hougyoku, thus allowing the shinigami to battle their inner hollows and eventually beating them to gain control of their hollow powers.
-They trained Ichigo and helped him control his inner hollow.
-Hirako fought against Grimmjow and prior to shooting a cero blast at him he said: "Sorry about this arrancar. Since you seem to be strong, I won't be going easy on you". Thus, Hirako saw him as a threat that needed to be squashed.
-Shinji never trusted Aizen and always supected of him.
-Urahara said the vizards would be valuable allies in the battle against Aizen's army.[INDENT]
Reasons to join Espada:
-If it weren't for Aizen, they would never have achieved their hollow powers.
-SS gave orders to kill them as hollows, even though they were clearly the victims of Aizen's experiment.
-Espada ranks are outnumbered by SS, so it would be interesting to see the vizards fight against shinigami.
-Aizen seems too confident, regardless of the fact that he only has 3 Espada (and their respective fraccion). I don't like that arrogance.

But then again, I think the vizards will fight alongside SS. Plus, it seems to me they have been in contact w/ Urahara since they came to earth. And SS (or at least Yamamoto) has been in contact w/ Urahara.
How do we know that Urahara is behind Soul Society in the first place though? Other than helping Ichigo and getting involved with certain conflicts between the two sides we have never seen him declare his allegiance towards Soul Society. To me the Vizards are a complete unkown factor, they may remain neutral to succeed on their own means and what betters them. If that means aiding Soul Society then so be it, but I won't really claim that they are on the same side. They are a third force in this whole scenario.

As for Urahara, it seems that he has made himself known to Soul Society but now that we know his past and his relation with them I won't reach the conclusion that he supports Soul Society as much as he maybe wants to pay Aizen back. We should know soon enough though.
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Old 2008-06-20, 20:44   Link #125
lequory
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Originally Posted by mugenTaichou View Post
I still stand behind conclusion that Urahara's only way to return Ichigo to shinigami was a hollowification.
That was his only way. Renji had cut his Soul Link and back then there was no clear cut explanation of why he(Urahara) did it that way, but now we have these flashbacks to thank for the clearest explanation of how to return a soul back to normal IS HOLLOWFICATION.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cloak_and_dagger View Post
This is one manga where I can't see the hero beating the ultimate enemy single-handedly.
Yu Yu Hakusho was the same way when he fought Sensui. Sensui had learned how to use the sacred power and was infinite times stronger than Urameshi that is until he humanly died and was reborn as a demon.

Speaking of Yu Yu...I just got done watching the whole series and I gotta say I fully understand why Bleach was considered a rip-off. There are just too many similarites between the 2.
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Old 2008-06-20, 20:48   Link #126
lequory
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WONDERMIKE View Post
I'm 99% sure the Vizards are out on revenge against Aizen. My prediction: Aizen + gang dominates the Gotei 13, after that the Vizards show off and decimate the Espada and Fraccion to a point where Aizen just smiles and brings out his Vastolorde. After that Vizards and Gotei 13 are the underdogs, have to join forces and win because of already mentioned Shonen law for the chance they don't manage to defeat Aizen then there's still the Zero Division or whatever awaits us in the king's realm(that's where Isshin could enter the stage).
This is exactly what I'm thinking will happen also. I've mentioned it before and felt foolish for saying it so I'm glad there's someone else who thinks that scenario is possible. If the Vaizards are on there way to fight Aizen it really is the only scenario.
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Old 2008-06-20, 20:51   Link #127
Mr. DJ
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Originally Posted by cloak_and_dagger View Post
This is one manga where I can't see the hero beating the ultimate enemy single-handedly.
just you wait! they haven't introduced fusion yet >.>
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Old 2008-06-20, 21:10   Link #128
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This is the scenario.

"An Enemy of an Enemy is a Friend"

I think that fits perfectly as to where the Vizards stands.

The vizards don't hate S.S. the way they hate Aizen, since Aizen is the one responsible for everything. They hate S.S. because S.S. didn't try to help, instead they were quick to "clean-up" the situation.
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Old 2008-06-20, 21:16   Link #129
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another good chapter, things are definitely clearer now. Glad it's finally back to the present!
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Old 2008-06-20, 21:27   Link #130
cloak_and_dagger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lequory View Post
Yu Yu Hakusho was the same way when he fought Sensui. Sensui had learned how to use the sacred power and was infinite times stronger than Urameshi that is until he humanly died and was reborn as a demon.
.
Well unfortunately Ichigo was already 'reborn' so to speak(becoming a shinigami for the 2nd time)...and Aizen'll probably do something weird like put his soul in a bottle and label it "In case of loli fangirl overload"

Quote:
Originally Posted by DjTrizz View Post
just you wait! they haven't introduced fusion yet >.>
Oh please God no....I'm getting disturbing images of Urahara tricking Ichigo into doing that stupid pose with Renji
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Old 2008-06-20, 22:00   Link #131
MAQI
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The last line made me really excited!!!!!! Oh please God, let the fight in Karakura town be the first thing shown!!!!!!
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Old 2008-06-21, 00:37   Link #132
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I don't see why the Vizards would have such a large beef with SS. Sure they were gonna be killed as hollows but they probably would of done the same. And it's even possible that it was Aizens doing as well, you'd think they would be gunning for Aizen first, then deal with SS if they still feel it necessary.
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Old 2008-06-21, 00:51   Link #133
Scep
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Actually the vaizards stand makes it pretty clear why they have been taking such a neutral stance until now. They won't go out of their way to help SS who tried to kill them, and punish their saviors, urahara and tessai. We can say that SS wasn't totally int the wrong, it was an innocent mistake and aizen had the entire SS fooled in the first place, but then again I guess you don't really expect them to say 'hey, no problem, it's just a innocent mistake that you almost had the whole lot of us executed, so let's be good friends again'.

Of course, they aren't exactly going to let aizen do what his wants since they have a feud against him, so they didn't take any stand and let the two duke it out. Right now however, aizen's threatening their safety by wanting to destroy karakura, as well as threatening the lives of urahara and tessai, so they're gonna do something.
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Old 2008-06-21, 01:03   Link #134
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Vizards group = 3 ships alliance from Gundam Seed.

:x
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Old 2008-06-21, 02:04   Link #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lequory View Post
Hypnosis

1. an artificially induced trance state resembling sleep, characterized by heightened susceptibility to suggestion.
2. hypnotism.


Illusion

1. something that deceives by producing a false or misleading impression of reality.
2. the state or condition of being deceived; misapprehension.
3. an instance of being deceived.
4. Psychology. a perception, as of visual stimuli (optical illusion), that represents what is perceived in a way different from the way it is in reality.
5. a very thin, delicate tulle of silk or nylon having a cobwebbed appearance, for trimmings, veilings, and the like.
6. Obsolete. the act of deceiving; deception; delusion.


I'm siding with he creates illusions until I'm told by the author something else. I had some things to point out. The whole argument about when and where the Hogyoku was placed in Rukia is screwed. Kubo himself didn't go back and check some things he said himself that messes up when it was placed in her. I don't care who placed it in her. I'm more worried about when it was placed in her. Heres a few things I'm concerned with.

1. 50 years ago Hisana(Byakuya's wife) died and she made him make that promise to find her little sister. Rukia was a little child then at the time even if they do age slowly that makes it impossible for her to be as big as she is now. Basically she's a 15 year old.

2. #1 makes it impossible for Rukia to even be around when these flashbacks took place. If she was around back then she was an embryo and they grow mighty slow.

3. Rukia has said she has lived 10 of Ichigo's lives. 10 * 15 = 150??????

4. Hayashi is right to smell something a little fishy about all this. Once I read his comments I went back and checked myself.

5. How in the hell does Aizen know of the Hogyoku in the first place when Urahara takes it out for the 1st time back at his lab?

6. Aizen said Urahara never once used the Hogyoku?

7. Like everyone else has said....Isshin???? Ryuken??? Where were they at

8. My final comment....I'm going back to believing that when Rukia transferred her powers, she also transfered some Hogyoku juice into Ichigo who in turn through his reiatsu leakage gave his 2 best friends, Chado and Inoue, their powers.


Forgot to add that I do not think that Aizen knows the Vaizards survived. All he's every said was that Urahara was exiled. I think Aizen is in for a big surprise next week. <<<This is my prediction
1. Rukia died 150 years ago when she was a baby. Her sister was only slightly older then she was maybe 5 to 10 years older but too young to take care of a child herself which is why she abandend her.

2. pretty much everyone, includeing Rukia, who has been shown to age has been ageing at the rate of 1 year for every 10 they live. this would make Rukia the equivelent of a 5 year old durring this time frame. Also durring this arc alone we have seen younger versions of at least 3 people that are in Rukia's age group. (Akon, The girl with chainlink hair, and Shuuhei)

3 Rukia's age is about 150 years. she has been a shinigami for 50 of those years.

7. Isshin's still a mystery but Ryuken is human so there is no way he would be connected to this flashback.
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Old 2008-06-21, 02:37   Link #136
zanar
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doesnt anyone find it weird that shinji seems to place aizen and urahara in the same boat when he says he's indebted to them? it seems that he feels the same way about the both of them.

wonder what urahara did to the vizards when they returned to the real world. especially since the vaizards had already appeared to have died.
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Old 2008-06-21, 02:37   Link #137
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...is it me or are people using the tags as a "comment section"? <.<
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Old 2008-06-21, 02:53   Link #138
KiNA
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^ Thats what I'm ranting about earlier.. and someone even go around mocking me and added the no more useless tags and hope peoples think I'm the one added them >.>
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Old 2008-06-21, 02:58   Link #139
m1thril
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Originally Posted by zanar View Post
doesnt anyone find it weird that shinji seems to place aizen and urahara in the same boat when he says he's indebted to them? it seems that he feels the same way about the both of them.

wonder what urahara did to the vizards when they returned to the real world. especially since the vaizards had already appeared to have died.
i think shinji meant that they are indebted to urahara for helping/saving them while they are indebted to aizen for their new powers and showing them how bad SS is run
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Old 2008-06-21, 03:11   Link #140
KiNA
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^ Is it.. the pause is long enough to feel that both debts are diferent tonation.. IMHO
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