AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Macross

Notices

View Poll Results: Macross Frontier - Episode 11 Rating
Perfect 10 32 29.36%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 34 31.19%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 24 22.02%
7 out of 10 : Good 12 11.01%
6 out of 10 : Average 5 4.59%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.92%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.92%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 109. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2008-06-22, 21:25   Link #221
Tak
☭ автомат Калашникова ☭
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Neu Herzogtum Zeon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
Hasn't really held true for Frontier so far has it? Neither numbers or fleet combat. A very narrow view of combat, seen mostly through Alto's cockpit.


I guess for this person, episode 7 doesn't... really count.

- Tak
Tak is offline  
Old 2008-06-22, 21:44   Link #222
Wesley84
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post


I guess for this person, episode 7 doesn't... really count.

- Tak
Yep. It was like a TTGL fanboy who watched a couple Macross episodes wrote it, rather than someone who actually wanted to portray a real battle. Oh, but everyone here is satisfied with it. Afterall, it had the missle bukkake, it had the Destroy (those got blown away by the hundreds in the original series), a little sniping sequence courteousy of Michael, oh, and not to mention Alto screaming and Luca managing to get himself captured.

And Quarter's "Gar" transformation sequence!

So far Frontier is more about Ranka becoming a star than "fleet" battles, which is fine by me, but no one should hold any illusions that just because the CG looks good and the choregraphy is even better, that the battle scenarios haven't suffered quite a bit since the original series.
Wesley84 is offline  
Old 2008-06-22, 22:29   Link #223
stray
aniki
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Send a message via AIM to stray
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahak View Post
To quote Luca, 1 day there and a week back. Still doesn't put it out of reason they can be back before the nebulous date of Ranka's first concert. The date of which appears to have only been finalized the day before so a couple of weeks for advertising asnd organization seems reasonable.
Mmmm... Chihiro dropped the ball on that one I think; Lunar and gg both peg it at a day subjectively and a week objectively (or did I get that mixed up). Seems consistent with other fold faults/distortions we've seen in the past (5 days for a signal to get to Frontier from Galaxy).

Otherwise, it's a bit too... Gundam-y in here. lately.
stray is offline  
Old 2008-06-22, 22:42   Link #224
Aquifina
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
Yep. It was like a TTGL fanboy who watched a couple Macross episodes wrote it, rather than someone who actually wanted to portray a real battle. Oh, but everyone here is satisfied with it. Afterall, it had the missle bukkake, it had the Destroy (those got blown away by the hundreds in the original series), a little sniping sequence courteousy of Michael, oh, and not to mention Alto screaming and Luca managing to get himself captured.

And Quarter's "Gar" transformation sequence!

So far Frontier is more about Ranka becoming a star than "fleet" battles, which is fine by me, but no one should hold any illusions that just because the CG looks good and the choregraphy is even better, that the battle scenarios haven't suffered quite a bit since the original series.
Well, for me, the animation and choreography is pretty much most everything. I mean, I don't really remember the original Macross series' fleet actions as all that realistic (granted, I've only watched the first dozen episodes or so). Because anime tends to focus on individual characters, I actually think it's more important to deal with the interpersonal dynamics of combat units, and Frontier actually does a pretty good job of that. SMS and the NUNS forces look, for an anime, reasonably close to a real military organization. That certainly wasn't the case with Celestrial Being. It'd be inherently difficult to deal with fleet action "realistically" in any sort of anime, because the only probable way of dealing with it through actual people is to focus on command-level decisions (frequently done in historical writing), but that automatically detracts from the focus on the young pilots that are going to at the center of the drama. Heck, in any sort of fiction, "realistic" portrayals of large unit actions are problematic, because the only way to make that intelligible is to not focus on the *people* involved, but the abstract organizations.
Aquifina is offline  
Old 2008-06-23, 00:11   Link #225
Wesley84
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquifina View Post
Well, for me, the animation and choreography is pretty much most everything. I mean, I don't really remember the original Macross series' fleet actions as all that realistic (granted, I've only watched the first dozen episodes or so). Because anime tends to focus on individual characters, I actually think it's more important to deal with the interpersonal dynamics of combat units, and Frontier actually does a pretty good job of that. SMS and the NUNS forces look, for an anime, reasonably close to a real military organization. That certainly wasn't the case with Celestrial Being. It'd be inherently difficult to deal with fleet action "realistically" in any sort of anime, because the only probable way of dealing with it through actual people is to focus on command-level decisions (frequently done in historical writing), but that automatically detracts from the focus on the young pilots that are going to at the center of the drama. Heck, in any sort of fiction, "realistic" portrayals of large unit actions are problematic, because the only way to make that intelligible is to not focus on the *people* involved, but the abstract organizations.
The Bridge/Zentradi/Squadron chatter from the original Macross helped flesh out the battles, so that even if there was alot of focus on what was happening with Hikaru, you understood what was going on overall. And even if the animation wasn't terrific, it still told a story, you still understood the significance of the efforts and manuevers of the parties involved.

Frontier by comparison has alot of screaming and gems like "Smell my ass". The reality is Frontier does conspiracies and piloting duels. It doesn't have fleet battles, and heck, arguably it doesn't even do real squadron based stuff, because it seems like everyone just flies off and does their own thing, leaving Alto alone to hog the spotlight.
Wesley84 is offline  
Old 2008-06-23, 01:24   Link #226
Zekori
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
The Bridge/Zentradi/Squadron chatter from the original Macross helped flesh out the battles, so that even if there was alot of focus on what was happening with Hikaru, you understood what was going on overall. And even if the animation wasn't terrific, it still told a story, you still understood the significance of the efforts and manuevers of the parties involved.

Frontier by comparison has alot of screaming and gems like "Smell my ass". The reality is Frontier does conspiracies and piloting duels. It doesn't have fleet battles, and heck, arguably it doesn't even do real squadron based stuff, because it seems like everyone just flies off and does their own thing, leaving Alto alone to hog the spotlight.
Understandable from the point of SDF, however in Frontier the current "villain" itself is something that doesn't speak human language so its understandable why there isn't that flow to it.

However awkwardly, there have been several situations where there were "Real Squadron based stuff", such as in episode 2, episode 7 with Ozma calling out orders to assist Alto, and episode 9.

By far, alto hasn't gotten much spotlight at all in combat (He has the most screentime, but hey he's a main character so obviously). Ozma has been the glory whore from what I've seen.
Zekori is offline  
Old 2008-06-23, 03:04   Link #227
Westlo
Lets be reality
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
it had the Destroy (those got blown away by the hundreds in the original series)
That aint no Destroy, that aint no Destroy!!!
Westlo is offline  
Old 2008-06-23, 03:05   Link #228
.Mero
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Hmmz one of the less appealing episode for me. Don't really know why, but something was a miss, can't put my finger on it.

As far as space battles, Frontier is a whole different ball game, compared to SDFM.
.Mero is offline  
Old 2008-06-23, 07:19   Link #229
Tak
☭ автомат Калашникова ☭
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Neu Herzogtum Zeon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
Frontier by comparison has alot of screaming and gems like "Smell my ass". The reality is Frontier does conspiracies and piloting duels. It doesn't have fleet battles, and heck, arguably it doesn't even do real squadron based stuff, because it seems like everyone just flies off and does their own thing, leaving Alto alone to hog the spotlight.
Hikaru initially was pretty much left to fend for himself too. It wasn't exactly until approximately 1/3 of the episode did he really became part of the squadron led by Roy and integrated into the whole military system.

Not to mention he wasn't even the best pilot

- Tak
Tak is offline  
Old 2008-06-23, 08:49   Link #230
squaresphere
Macross Lifer!
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Keep in mind that SMS is smaller too, they're not going to be directing the whole NUNS fleet. I thought they did a good job of large scale fleet stuff in the deculture ep 1 when we got to see inside of NUNS MF fleet command.
squaresphere is offline  
Old 2008-06-23, 11:12   Link #231
Wesley84
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zekori View Post
Understandable from the point of SDF, however in Frontier the current "villain" itself is something that doesn't speak human language so its understandable why there isn't that flow to it.

However awkwardly, there have been several situations where there were "Real Squadron based stuff", such as in episode 2, episode 7 with Ozma calling out orders to assist Alto, and episode 9.

By far, alto hasn't gotten much spotlight at all in combat (He has the most screentime, but hey he's a main character so obviously). Ozma has been the glory whore from what I've seen.
Michael's sniping sucks. It's a stupid, stand-alone, gimmick where he should really be flying and fighting just like everyone else. Sooner he blows his brians out like his sister the better.

And yes, the Vajra side of things hasn't been explored, but just because they don't speak a language we understand doesn't mean we can't understand them or what they're doing. What the show really needs is some biologist that's studied their behavior or tactics or whatever.

You're also right that Alto hasn't really done much as fighting is concerned, but fighting itself is so small scale in this series, there's not much to go around (Klan had diddly screentime in episode seven, where everyone else saw some action at least). It still doesn't change the fact that pilots act alone, unless Michael is providing support from a convinently located asteriod nearby.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Hikaru initially was pretty much left to fend for himself too. It wasn't exactly until approximately 1/3 of the episode did he really became part of the squadron led by Roy and integrated into the whole military system.

Not to mention he wasn't even the best pilot

- Tak
They did a good job showing Hikaru's situation and introducing the VF, but the overall battle didn't suffer because of it. We were still previe to details, what was going on on the Bridge, and lots and lots of enemies running around, with a unique scenario going down with each battle.
Wesley84 is offline  
Old 2008-06-23, 12:49   Link #232
ani_d
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by songz
It is like falling in love with a fireman saving you from a fire, but he was doing his damn job. It has happened before, even with a doc friend of mine trying to elevate depression off a lady then she jumps on him as her pillar of support, much to his ANNOYANCE.
Why do we keep comparing Alto to real-life people who help people with a heavy heart when it comes to Ranka? lol Didn't he jump in to save Ranka twice and both times proved to be not half-hearted? Regardless of the outcome, it's always the thought that counts. Ranka is Alto's friend, he'll always save her. Ranka's feelings for Alto doesn't/will not end up as blind feelings. To label it as such is just an excuse to cheapen Ranka's character development which has been given more focus in the story contrary to... *ahem*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84
So Ranka types up a text-message concerning Alto's birthday and what she'd been up to, but apparently Alto hasn't recieved any messages from her concerning his birthday. Does this mean he hadn't yet checked his mail, Ranka hadn't yet sent the message, or that someone had blocked the message from being sent to him? And if it's the latter, why?
In the beginning of the episode, Ranka has been typing a lot of text messages to Alto but because of her nagging manager who keeps pushing her to work, she always ends up deleting it and the message doesn't get sent. =)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84
I hope it's just normal sickness and not something that pertains to the plot, even though Sheryl's in serious need of personal plot relevance at this point (things happen because of her, not to her).
I bet Grace poisoned her so that she'll get sick in order to cause chaos in Galia 4. All as planned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84
So far Frontier is more about Ranka becoming a star than "fleet" battles, which is fine by me, but no one should hold any illusions that just because the CG looks good and the choregraphy is even better, that the battle scenarios haven't suffered quite a bit since the original series.
Macross Frontier doesn't really have that much battle scenarios compared to let's say Gundam 00. It focuses more on the character, which is really fine by me. Honestly, I'd rather have it focusing more on character developments rather than having a "Vajra of the week" type of setting where it becomes a routine for SMS to get in their VF--all for sake of throwing in battle scenarios. lol Frontier has been pretty peaceful lately. However, when it's battle time, it's battle time, and CG battle choreography just makes it all the better. Anyway, we're bound to get battle scenes next episode. Planet Galia is going to be where the action is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zekori
Understandable from the point of SDF, however in Frontier the current "villain" itself is something that doesn't speak human language so its understandable why there isn't that flow to it.
I think we all just have to be patient for the next half of the series because they definitely will cover a lot of it. Also I wonder if the Vajra really are the villain since it was revealed in episode 5 that these creatures really have no brain and is more likely to be controlled by someone.
ani_d is offline  
Old 2008-06-23, 17:07   Link #233
Tak
☭ автомат Калашникова ☭
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Neu Herzogtum Zeon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post

And yes, the Vajra side of things hasn't been explored, but just because they don't speak a language we understand doesn't mean we can't understand them or what they're doing. What the show really needs is some biologist that's studied their behavior or tactics or whatever.
Aside from the fact that nobody understands them, and the only sample they acquired was forcefully destroyed when it revived itself and subsequently became a threat inside the container.

No biologist ever studied their behavior or tactic, because there had never been an opportunity to do that. And why we need a 'biologist'? The Vajra isn't something a mere biologist would comprehend.

Not to mention Alto & co. certainly aren't fighting for the sake of fighting. The only thing they managed to do so far is to respond as rapidly as possible whenever Vajras are sighted because they have no idea where the Vajra came from. Beyond that, there is little can do aside from launching occasional attacks against Vajra fleets attacking a neighboring colony, like the Galaxy. We are talking about an alien specie capable of folding in and out freely even if obstacles that would otherwise hinder a similar attempt by the NUNS.

The Zentradi in SDF Macross is a different story. The Zentradi were a far more visible enemy, while the Vajra tend to hide in the shadows.

- Tak
Tak is offline  
Old 2008-06-23, 18:58   Link #234
Wesley84
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Aside from the fact that nobody understands them, and the only sample they acquired was forcefully destroyed when it revived itself and subsequently became a threat inside the container.

No biologist ever studied their behavior or tactic, because there had never been an opportunity to do that. And why we need a 'biologist'? The Vajra isn't something a mere biologist would comprehend.
There's not even theories concerning them in the show. Hell, they're apparently attacking Frontier on a somewhat regular basis, but we don't know anything about the nature of the attacks, what they're attacking, if the attacks are random, or seem to have some kind of aim.

Even knowing if the Vajra know anything about the Colony Fleet and it's inhabitants is significant in of itself. Yet, the best they could come up with was something about a "nest" being somewhere "nearby" (nearby being somewhere within a few lightyears and near the galactic core that's alot places) and there's even the chance of that not being a natural occurence, since Grace was privy to it's location. And whatever meaning Ranka has to them.

Quote:
Not to mention Alto & co. certainly aren't fighting for the sake of fighting. The only thing they managed to do so far is to respond as rapidly as possible whenever Vajras are sighted because they have no idea where the Vajra came from. Beyond that, there is little can do aside from launching occasional attacks against Vajra fleets attacking a neighboring colony, like the Galaxy. We are talking about an alien specie capable of folding in and out freely even if obstacles that would otherwise hinder a similar attempt by the NUNS.
I'd say it's an assumption that Galaxy was even attacked at this point. All we've got is a number of ships that were ordered to retreat as soon as they were "attacked", a few grainy images of Galaxy's fleet apparently fighting something, one distress signal that told dick, and the fact that it's apparently disappeared.

Yeah, it's a kooky conspiracy theory, but that's all Frontier's offered up. They're not telling a story, they're counting on viewers wanting to draw their own conclusions without giving anything to go on, and it's pissing me off.

And personally I'm not impressed with the apparent significance of folding in as they please. Really, if they can come in and bitch slap Frontier any time they choose, get it over with, because I'm tired of Leon and whomever conspiring to exploit the Vajra somehow.

Quote:
The Zentradi in SDF Macross is a different story. The Zentradi were a far more visible enemy, while the Vajra tend to hide in the shadows.

- Tak
And the show benefitted from it. If I had to say who's taken up their role in Frontier, it'd have to be Leon. Freakin' Leon for crying out loud. How's that for bullcrap?

Really, I'm fully prepared to just accept the fact Frontier is fundamentally different from SDF, that it's more interested in portraying dogfights between a small number of pilots with a musical number playing in the background, while building up Ranka Lee's character the rest of the time, but I won't accept the general statement that "Macross has fleet battles and is alot different from Gundam" when Frontier so far has not.
Wesley84 is offline  
Old 2008-06-23, 20:51   Link #235
ReddyRedWolf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Fleet battles?

More like running away to keep the civvies alive.

Same but different principle here.

SDF Macross was a refugee story while M7 and Frontier are pioneer story.

Only with more ship space instead of a mere city an entire country.

Population size reflects that.
ReddyRedWolf is offline  
Old 2008-06-23, 21:41   Link #236
Wesley84
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
Fleet battles?
Yes, I know, "Fleet" might not be the appropiate word come to think of it. It was mostly Macross and it's VF squadrons vs. battlepods, while being stalked by capital ships that never really engaged. So far anyway (on episode 10).

Still, there was an emphasis on there being some kind of battleplan on the Zentradi side of things, and the Macross itself usually had to come up with it's own plan to counter whatever was cooked up. There was more chatter, there was more 'implied' coordination, and there was no Idol singing her damn heart out.

Hikaru's squadron was just another of many, and the formidability of the Zentradi wasn't really ever in doubt even after being defeated numerous times, unlike the Vajra who had their asses completely handed to them in episode 7.

Quote:
More like running away to keep the civvies alive.
Oh, hardly. I doubt Global's plan to return to Earth would have been any different, though his chances of success would have dropped considerably without the additional labor and pilot pool to draw from.

Quote:
SDF Macross was a refugee story while M7 and Frontier are pioneer story.
Macross was a pioneer story since they ended up pioneering space colonization.

Frontier is more like a developed 1st World nation. Gullible population being manipulated by the government, the media, Sheryl, and distracted with the latest thing in the news like "hydra" epidemics threatening their pristine artifical enviroments, or cute little Ranka winning their decadent little hearts.

In truth the story so far has a more vested interest in what happens to the SMS crew than what happens to Frontier itself. Let the spoiled populace be 'om nom nom'd by the Vajra. It's the least they deserve for living in a replica of San Fransico.
Wesley84 is offline  
Old 2008-06-23, 22:01   Link #237
Tak
☭ автомат Калашникова ☭
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Neu Herzogtum Zeon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
There's not even theories concerning them in the show. Hell, they're apparently attacking Frontier on a somewhat regular basis, but we don't know anything about the nature of the attacks, what they're attacking, if the attacks are random, or seem to have some kind of aim.

Even knowing if the Vajra know anything about the Colony Fleet and it's inhabitants is significant in of itself. Yet, the best they could come up with was something about a "nest" being somewhere "nearby" (nearby being somewhere within a few lightyears and near the galactic core that's alot places) and there's even the chance of that not being a natural occurence, since Grace was privy to it's location. And whatever meaning Ranka has to them.
Thus one of the highlights is the attempt to discover just what kind of creatures are attacking Frontier. Its not like they are sitting idle and doing nothing. The SMS and the military are both very keen on finding out more about the Vajra. I don't suppose they should know about their enemies through thin air and without a creditable sample?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
Really, if they can come in and bitch slap Frontier any time they choose, get it over with, because I'm tired of Leon and whomever conspiring to exploit the Vajra somehow.
They did just that, but as their motives are still unknown.

Look, this is just like what the Zents were up to back in the original. If the Zents wanted to bitch-slap Earth silly, they would and eventually DID. Blowing Earth up into bits and leaving almost nothing alive on the ground. The Vajra have shown to be just as capable of doing such things. It swarmed the Galaxy, didn't it?

But while they didn't, I suspect an ulterior motive not yet discovered, it nonetheless allow Alto and co. to find out more about them, which is always good. Otherwise, we won't have a show.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
but I won't accept the general statement that "Macross has fleet battles and is alot different from Gundam" when Frontier so far has not.
Gundam is mostly about DEUS EX MACHINA ace pilots fighting each other, with an almost total lack of teamwork or support, you cannot deny this. While Macross on the other hand, tend to portray squadron battles with a meticulous coordination usually not found in Gundam. The scale of battle is usually not one sided,

The sole exception to this is MS08 team, which to this day, remains my favorite Gundam franchise out of the entire UC timeline.

- Tak
Tak is offline  
Old 2008-06-23, 23:01   Link #238
Wesley84
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Thus one of the highlights is the attempt to discover just what kind of creatures are attacking Frontier. Its not like they are sitting idle and doing nothing. The SMS and the military are both very keen on finding out more about the Vajra. I don't suppose they should know about their enemies through thin air and without a creditable sample?
Except we're not privy to them doing anything. Leon has his little meetings with suited people and the President or some military person comments about Vajra attacks having taken place, but we're never given the barest of details, or character opinion within the show. It's like they're casual observers, rather than smart, intelligent people, with a vested interest in knowing what goes on around them.

Quote:
They did just that, but as their motives are still unknown.
No, obviously they didn't.

Quote:
Look, this is just like what the Zents were up to back in the original. If the Zents wanted to bitch-slap Earth silly, they would and eventually DID. Blowing Earth up into bits and leaving almost nothing alive on the ground.
There was an escalation though. We see the Zentradi side of things. We learn about them, see the tactics they deploy, all being built up to the final straw. Assuming anyway since I've only seen a third of the series so far. The Vajra on the other hand are complete mysteries and possibly an overstated threat, and are treated as beneath notice by pretty everyone in the show.

Quote:
The Vajra have shown to be just as capable of doing such things.
No, they haven't. Victor's can blast picket ships and are hard to interdict due to their toughness, speed, and firepower, but an armada is not apparent and Victors are few and far between apparently since they don't seem to operate in groups.

Quote:
It swarmed the Galaxy, didn't it?
Prove they did.

Quote:
But while they didn't, I suspect an ulterior motive not yet discovered, it nonetheless allow Alto and co. to find out more about them, which is always good. Otherwise, we won't have a show.
Possibly. Ozma and Cathy seem more interested in what Leon and the government are up to though. The Vajra...aren't on anyone's mind at the moment.

Quote:
Gundam is mostly about DEUS EX MACHINA ace pilots fighting each other, with an almost total lack of teamwork or support, you cannot deny this. While Macross on the other hand, tend to portray squadron battles with a meticulous coordination usually not found in Gundam. The scale of battle is usually not one sided,

The sole exception to this is MS08 team, which to this day, remains my favorite Gundam franchise out of the entire UC timeline.

- Tak
Frontier hasn't done any of those things though. Hell, Luca who has drones dedicated to support was all by himself when he got captured!

Like I said, Frontier has more incommon with Gundam than it does with it's predecessor. A proper portrayal of a military and fighter squadrons tearing eachother to pieces, in favor of one on one dogfights where lots of chasing and grappling happens, and no one dies from missles or gunfire, unless it's bukake or Michael sniping.
Wesley84 is offline  
Old 2008-06-23, 23:29   Link #239
Tak
☭ автомат Калашникова ☭
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Neu Herzogtum Zeon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
Except we're not privy to them doing anything. Leon has his little meetings with suited people and the President or some military person comments about Vajra attacks having taken place, but we're never given the barest of details, or character opinion within the show. It's like they're casual observers, rather than smart, intelligent people, with a vested interest in knowing what goes on around them.
We've been given a lot of details about the Vajra in the show. It was in Episode 5, when it was discovered that the Vajra wasn't too different, physically, from the newest Valkyries and that they have some sort of a biological programming.

Character opinions were also plenty in that episode. Except, when they were finally trying to get down and perform an autopsy, the friggin bug just revived itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
No, obviously they didn't.
Sure they have. First episode, bitch slapped the Frontier Colonial Fleet for fun, went as deep into the city and causing havoc until Ozma intervened. We don't know what they want, yet, but I guess it has something to do with Ranka (obviously).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
There was an escalation though. We see the Zentradi side of things. We learn about them, see the tactics they deploy, all being built up to the final straw. Assuming anyway since I've only seen a third of the series so far. The Vajra on the other hand are complete mysteries and possibly an overstated threat, and are treated as beneath notice by pretty everyone in the show.
The Zents were obsessed with studying how the Miclones acquired reactive technology. Wiping Earth out wasn't the Zent's final straw, they could have done that long, long time ago. They didn't, because their mission initially started as a recon operation, not annihilation.

And you can't expect everyone to talk about Vajra as if it was that overwhelming of a threat. Yes, it is indeed a serious threat, but hey, life goes on. People have other things to worry about than creatures they have little idea of. Although I suspect that is about to change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
No, they haven't. Victor's can blast picket ships and are hard to interdict due to their toughness, speed, and firepower, but an armada is not apparent and Victors are few and far between apparently since they don't seem to operate in groups.
Because they are not at the stage where total annihilation is necessary. Judging by their performance in Episode 1 however, if the Vajra weren't there to dick around, I doubt the Frontier Fleet would stay afloat for too long. Again, the Zents did not initially send an entire fleet to blast Earth out of orbit. It started slowly, and was not until 2/3 into the show do we begin to see fleet-sized attack groups showing up. Even then, the assault was partial and never complete. For example, Quamzin was told to retreat many times even when victory was assured had the Zent ships simply pushed on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
Prove they did.
What prove do you want?

You do realize only one ship from the Galaxy Colonial Fleet survived right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
Frontier hasn't done any of those things though. Hell, Luca who has drones dedicated to support was all by himself when he got captured!

Like I said, Frontier has more incommon with Gundam than it does with it's predecessor. A proper portrayal of a military and fighter squadrons tearing eachother to pieces, in favor of one on one dogfights where lots of chasing and grappling happens, and no one dies from missles or gunfire, unless it's bukake or Michael sniping.
Luca's role was NEVER intended to be one of front line combat. He is a recon, a scout, there to gather information and relay it back to Macross Quarter and the squadron. His drones were destroyed when the Vajra battleship showed up and took them out by surprise. He got captured because wanted to find out more about the Vajra (again, going against your 'we don't know about Vajra' statement, they are clearly trying, just not very successful) despite Ozma ordering him to return to formation.

Moreover, it was all squadron combat in Episode 4, and especially Episode 7. The way Ozma ordered Alto to stay closely behind to securing the Konigs Monster's deployment. The way where instructions were relayed is rather specific. I don't know how much you want from this. Fact is, in Gundam, pilots rarely, if at all, coordinate. They just show up, and pick their fights. A friendly assisting the 'ace' in Gundam is almost a bonus.

As for a proper portrayal of military dogfights, we've seen plenty of those in Episode 1, where the VF-171s went in, and tore each other to pieces. Then again, you realized Frontier was another ballpark. Its not focusing on the military, but rather a civilian military service. The focus is on Alto and his teammates, not the broader perspective of the military as it is in SDF Macross. Even so, there are serious squadron coordination involved, why you choose to dismiss them is beyond me.

- Tak
Tak is offline  
Old 2008-06-23, 23:38   Link #240
Aquifina
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
Macross Frontier doesn't really have that much battle scenarios compared to let's say Gundam 00. It focuses more on the character, which is really fine by me. Honestly, I'd rather have it focusing more on character developments rather than having a "Vajra of the week" type of setting where it becomes a routine for SMS to get in their VF--all for sake of throwing in battle scenarios. lol Frontier has been pretty peaceful lately. However, when it's battle time, it's battle time, and CG battle choreography just makes it all the better. Anyway, we're bound to get battle scenes next episode. Planet Galia is going to be where the action is.
I also like how the series is more than just about dogfighting, which would really get old, after all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
Like I said, Frontier has more incommon with Gundam than it does with it's predecessor. A proper portrayal of a military and fighter squadrons tearing eachother to pieces, in favor of one on one dogfights where lots of chasing and grappling happens, and no one dies from missles or gunfire, unless it's bukake or Michael sniping.
Wes, I see your point about the large unit actions, BUT there is a big difference in the way the military orgs are portrayed. CB looks NOTHING like a military organization (and I know something about military orgs)--Sumeragi is way too weepy to be a CO, and the Meisters are way too fractious and undisciplined. Don't get me wrong, I actually found Gundam 00 entertaining, but seeing trained professionals acting angsty and emo was rather weird at times. Frontier might also focus on individualistic dogfights, but SMS looks a heck of a lot more like a recognizable military organization (complete with a training cycle, hazing Alto when he was the FNG, and rivalry among JOs) than Celestial Being. In Gundam 00, Graham and Sergei look like plausible combat leaders, but they're really just side characters after all.

Anyhow, I think both series want to focus on the characters as much as the mechas involved. But in very different ways; Macross I think has a more personal focus (you see this especially in the love triangle), while Gundam 00 was very much into high politics and the like. Of course, the differences shouldn't be overstated--there is a larger political narrative in Frontier, and Gundam 00 also looks at its characters' personal dynamics, but there is definitely a different set of weights given to these issues in each series.
Aquifina is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 17:59.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.