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Old 2008-06-20, 11:07   Link #1
takumikun
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ATI Avivo and Nvidia Purevideo

Anyone use these to decode their 1280x800 .mkv anime files?

I believe they are codecs. If anyone has knowledge on them or knows how to make use of them, please share your knowledge!
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Old 2008-06-21, 11:22   Link #2
hobbes_fan
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They won't really work with MPC. You need software capable of using those. Cyberlinkpower DVD, and windvd.

Same with ATI's UVD feature on their HD series cards.
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Old 2008-06-22, 20:21   Link #3
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I don't really get your question but... I'm using a ATi Radeon HD 2400 Pro card (with AVIVO feature of course). And because when I'm playing video the Catalyst Control Center show that the card is working around 10~30% then I think it's working if you have all the driver including the AVIVO one (not only the WDM driver).

One more thing is ATi AVIVO capable of converting video by using only hardware. Which mean it's FAST. I've always converted a DVD's .vob to .mpg format with AVIVO. One 4.7 GB DVD is converted only in 5~10 minutes.

Don't really know about nVidia PureVideo tough...
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Old 2008-06-28, 17:59   Link #4
neqael
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Yep, NVIDIA PureVideo is a decoder that offloads your CPU and makes GPU do as much work as possible. Most software DVD-players make use of it automatically with no effort on your part. However as I understand only HD DVD or Blu-ray players support decoding h.264 (PureVideo HD) efficiently, and you need GeForce 7900 series card or newer for that. I think you could use them to play your downloaded files too.
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Old 2008-07-03, 02:44   Link #5
encia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furuno View Post
I don't really get your question but... I'm using a ATi Radeon HD 2400 Pro card (with AVIVO feature of course). And because when I'm playing video the Catalyst Control Center show that the card is working around 10~30% then I think it's working if you have all the driver including the AVIVO one (not only the WDM driver).

One more thing is ATi AVIVO capable of converting video by using only hardware. Which mean it's FAST. I've always converted a DVD's .vob to .mpg format with AVIVO. One 4.7 GB DVD is converted only in 5~10 minutes.

Don't really know about nVidia PureVideo tough...
For nVidia, Refer to RapidHD via nVidia CUDA (that's G8x and above).
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Old 2008-07-03, 04:58   Link #6
neqael
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Originally Posted by encia View Post
For nVidia, Refer to RapidHD via nVidia CUDA (that's G8x and above).
Isn't RapidHD for encoding only?
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Old 2008-07-18, 07:52   Link #7
encia
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Originally Posted by neqael View Post
Isn't RapidHD for encoding only?
Encode and transcode.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C_Pj1Ep4nw
http://www.digit-life.com/articles3/...-part1-p3.html

NVIDIA's PureVideo is for decode.
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Old 2008-07-18, 08:03   Link #8
encia
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Originally Posted by neqael View Post
Yep, NVIDIA PureVideo is a decoder that offloads your CPU and makes GPU do as much work as possible. Most software DVD-players make use of it automatically with no effort on your part. However as I understand only HD DVD or Blu-ray players support decoding h.264 (PureVideo HD) efficiently, and you need GeForce 7900 series card or newer for that. I think you could use them to play your downloaded files too.
I use K-Codec and PowerDVD7.3 to decode mkv (container format) with H.264 (compression format) on my NVIDIA PureVideo HD (e.g. Geforce 8600M GT).
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Old 2008-07-27, 20:03   Link #9
M.D. Geist
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oh god... so many things to clear up

First of all :
  • mkv is the container
  • h264 is the codec
  • x264 is the program/library used for encoding in h264
  • avivio / purevideo are gpu features to decode h264 stuff, its not a "standalone" decoder

Now with these facts in mind lets start.

First of all you need a decoder to display h264 material.
In CCCP Package you get one, libavcodec , however this one does not work with avivio/purevideo YET !
Next good decoder is coreavc , again, it does NOT use the gpu feature YET !!
The only decoder I know right now which does use hardware acceleration of h264 decoding is the one from cyberlink !
This decoder is standard on Cyberlinks Powerdvd Ultra 7.x ...

So you have 3 "famous" decoder :
  • the one from cccp / haali stuff
  • the one from coreavc
  • the one from Powerdvd Ultra

But it only starts from here !

If you have a hw-capable h264 decoder, you can run into several problems :
  1. Player problems
  2. Subtitle problems
  3. Mkv muxing problems
  4. wrong encoded source

Spoiler for answers:


To sum up, you need 3 keypoints
  1. Graphic Card with full h264 decoding features (like hd3450 , early gt88xx series) or modern chipset*
  2. HW compilant decoder
  3. Properly encoded video

1 is no problem. (0 - 30 euro)
2 is an annoyance (since cyblerinks decoder is not free, can get them easy with a new bluray rom though for ~100 euro)
3 is a gamble, most of the time the factor where all goes wrong though!

* newer chipsets (think it was 780g and stuff) already have a gpu on chip with full hw support, so you dont have to buy another/an other graphic card

As for speedup. To give you an idea how powerful hw decoding via gpu is, some word about my system.
Spoiler for space:


Now for some random quoting :

Spoiler for space:


On a sidenote, IŽd like to make a compilation of my findings/experiments some time. Since IŽm fed up to see all these misinformation about hardware high resolution anime playback.
With right settings, a 1000mhz CPU could do the job already ...
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Old 2008-07-28, 00:40   Link #10
hobbes_fan
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Totally and utterly wrong! Since its not the software that matters, its the decoder.
If you have the right decoder as said above, you can use any player that can use this decoder. Zoomplayer, MPC, MPH-H , MPlayer to name a few.
Where are you going to get the cyberlink decoder from? AFAIK the only legal way to obtain it is with powerdvd. Note the decoder IS software - it is written code.

Coreavc isn't hardware acceleration either. It's a more efficient codec. codec = software.
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Old 2008-07-28, 06:38   Link #11
M.D. Geist
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If cyberlink is the only one supporting hardware, getting it with PowerDVD Ultra is the easiest way. Afaik the decoder was available as standalone some time back, maybe they changed that.

Quote:
Coreavc isn't hardware acceleration either
Did I say otherwise ?

They are planing gpu support, but no one knows when theyll implement it.

edit:

mpc-hc has another dxva/hw enabled decoder for h264 ! havent tested this one, though
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Last edited by M.D. Geist; 2008-07-29 at 06:49. Reason: news
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Old 2008-08-10, 06:30   Link #12
encia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.D. Geist View Post
oh god... so many things to clear up

First of all :
  • mkv is the container
  • h264 is the codec
  • x264 is the program/library used for encoding in h264
  • avivio / purevideo are gpu features to decode h264 stuff, its not a "standalone" decoder

Now with these facts in mind lets start.

First of all you need a decoder to display h264 material.
In CCCP Package you get one, libavcodec , however this one does not work with avivio/purevideo YET !
Next good decoder is coreavc , again, it does NOT use the gpu feature YET !!
The only decoder I know right now which does use hardware acceleration of h264 decoding is the one from cyberlink !
This decoder is standard on Cyberlinks Powerdvd Ultra 7.x ...
For software with HW acceleration h264 decoding (aka MPEG-4 Part 10 or AVC),

InterVideo WinDVD 8 Platinum supports nVidia's PureVideo HD.
http://www.emedialive.com/Articles/R...rticleID=12780

InterVideo WinDVD 9 Plus supports nVidia PureVideo HD and ATI Avivo HD.
http://www.corel.com/content/pdf/win...d9_plus_fb.pdf

Nero 7 Ultra supports nVidia PureVideo HD and ATI Avivo HD.
http://ati.amd.com/technology/H264.html
http://www.linuxelectrons.com/news/h...e-acceleration

Quote:
Graphic Card with full h264 decoding features (like hd3450 , early gt88xx series) or modern chipset*
Unlike Geforce 8400(G86)/8500(G86)/8600GS(G86)/8600 GT(G84), early Geforce 8800 (G80) only includes PureVideo V1. G84/G86's PureVideo V2 adds a bitstream processor (BSP) and enhanced video processor (VP2) to completely offload AACS-decryption and H.264-decoding.

Personally, to watch h264/mkv raws and subs. I use the following
1. PowerDVD 8 Ultra($99 USD), K-Codec and G84M GPU (Geforce 8600GT Mobile). $69USD for PowerDVD 8 Deluxe which can play back H264 titles.
http://www.cyberlink.com/multi/produ...are_1_ENU.html
2. Nero 8 ShowTime, K-Codec and R6V70 GPU (Radeon HD 3870).

My fallback player is VideoLan.

Quote:
CPU Usage on 1080p material ? If you use PDVD7.3 it should use cyberlinks decoder, but havent heard about K-Codec yet, maybe its good or even better with less problems who knows... If youŽve only used it on 720p mkvs (which most cpus can handle fine now) I -again- kinda doubt you use real HW decoding, as youŽd run into problems with poorly encoded anime eps and the annoying subtitle problem!
K-Codec is a collection of codecs and config tools. It uses FFshow(via libavcodec). I have config FFshow to use Cyberlink's decoder(i.e. disabled libavcodec for any h264 formats). I use it with Macross Frontier GG subs mkv @1934 x 1088 H264. For subtitles, Media Player Classic (Gabest) has two output modes i.e renderless or windowed.

Last edited by encia; 2008-08-10 at 07:23.
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Old 2008-08-10, 10:42   Link #13
M.D. Geist
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Unlike Geforce 8400(G86)/8500(G86)/8600GS(G86)/8600 GT(G84), early Geforce 8800 (G80) only includes PureVideo V1. G84/G86's PureVideo V2 adds a bitstream processor (BSP) and enhanced video processor (VP2) to completely offload AACS-decryption and H.264-decoding.
good for clearing that up, i find nvidias h264 decoding support rather strange, as higher cards dont support full playback, but lower ones do.
Im fine with my hd3450...

Quote:
K-Codec is a collection of codecs and config tools. It uses FFshow(via libavcodec). I have config FFshow to use Cyberlink's decoder(i.e. disabled libavcodec for any h264 formats). I use it with Macross Frontier GG subs mkv @1934 x 1088 H264. For subtitles, Media Player Classic (Gabest) has two output modes i.e renderless or windowed.
You could test MPC-HC ... It doesnt work for me though, but its the current only free HW decoder we have!

Powerdvd / Windvd / Nero7 all cost more than the proper graphic card itself... :/

edit :
Quote:
I use it with Macross Frontier GG subs mkv @1934 x 1088 H264.
How so ?
I checked the mod-gg macross episode (18) and its impossible this stream could be HW compatible! 1440x1080@L5 with 16 ref frames...
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Last edited by M.D. Geist; 2008-08-10 at 11:19.
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Old 2008-08-11, 08:51   Link #14
encia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.D. Geist View Post
good for clearing that up, i find nvidias h264 decoding support rather strange, as higher cards dont support full playback, but lower ones do.
Perhaps NV ran out of silicon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M.D. Geist View Post
You could test MPC-HC ... It doesnt work for me though, but its the current only free HW decoder we have!

Powerdvd / Windvd / Nero7 all cost more than the proper graphic card itself... :/

edit :
I'll try "Media Player Classic Home Cinema"...

But according to http://mpc-hc.sourceforge.net/DXVASupport.html
Unfortunately the MPC-HC decoder only supports the "bitstream mode" at this stage, which means that only the most recent graphic cards are supported :

nVidia series 8(9)xxx for H.264 only
ATI Radeon HD series for H.264 and VC-1 decoding

"Motion compensation" mode might be added in the future to increase compatibility with older graphic cards, but I cannot promise anything. Mpeg2 and WMV accelerations are not supported either.



Quote:
Originally Posted by M.D. Geist View Post
How so ?
I checked the mod-gg macross episode (18) and its impossible this stream could be HW compatible! 1440x1080@L5 with 16 ref frames...
"[Modified-gg] Macross FRONTIER - 14 [1440x1080 h264 aac].mkv"
returns 1934 x 1088 video size(in in Media Player Classic (Gabest).
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Old 2008-08-11, 15:23   Link #15
M.D. Geist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by encia View Post

"[Modified-gg] Macross FRONTIER - 14 [1440x1080 h264 aac].mkv"
returns 1934 x 1088 video size(in in Media Player Classic (Gabest).

Tried it (no idea why, result was obvious). Didnt work!

MPC : no image
Zoomplayer : no image
MPC-HC : working but dxva disabled



Even if it were 1934x1088, 1934 is not mod16 (although 1080 is accepted fine) resolution and should conflict with compability to begin with!

16ref frames = no way !


Either nvidias dxva support is way different and doesnt have such high restrictions than atis, or you dont play the file with dxva at all!


edit:
ah lol, episode 14... well try 18 !!

*downloads14*
edit2
ugh, same encoding
16ref @ L5.1
not possible on my ati hd3450 !
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Last edited by M.D. Geist; 2008-08-11 at 18:18. Reason: further infos
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Old 2008-08-13, 04:00   Link #16
encia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.D. Geist View Post
Tried it (no idea why, result was obvious). Didnt work!

MPC : no image
Zoomplayer : no image
MPC-HC : working but dxva disabled



Even if it were 1934x1088, 1934 is not mod16 (although 1080 is accepted fine) resolution and should conflict with compability to begin with!

16ref frames = no way !


Either nvidias dxva support is way different and doesnt have such high restrictions than atis, or you dont play the file with dxva at all!


edit:
ah lol, episode 14... well try 18 !!

*downloads14*
edit2
ugh, same encoding
16ref @ L5.1
not possible on my ati hd3450 !
I run MPC-HC and it's built-in codec disables my G84M's DXVA (while running mod gg subs).

Using CyberLink's codec

Last edited by encia; 2008-08-13 at 05:41.
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Old 2008-08-13, 08:13   Link #17
M.D. Geist
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are you sure thats really the cyberlink codec ?

cpu load is kinda high... i mean i can play the Ironman trailer (1920*8xx something) with less than 8% on a singlecore...

looks kinda more like coreavc :/

this just doesnt make sense to me... i mean if mpc-hcs codec disables dxva, why should cyberlink work on nvidia ?
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Old 2008-08-14, 07:02   Link #18
encia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.D. Geist View Post
are you sure thats really the cyberlink codec ?
I checked the filters menu item.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M.D. Geist View Post
cpu load is kinda high... i mean i can play the Ironman trailer (1920*8xx something) with less than 8% on a singlecore...
Removed MKV container and replace it with MP4. Cyberlink's PowerDVD 8 shows a blank video with 4 to 8 percent CPU usage. Cyberlink's information tab shows DXVA is in use. If I disable DXVA, the video plays back fine.

SInce I'm running CUDA GPU applications (e.g. PhysX enabled titles, Badaboom(H264 transcoder/encoder), Fold@Home GPU) I'm using nVidia's beta drivers 177.79.
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Old 2008-08-15, 05:24   Link #19
M.D. Geist
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so youre playing the file with cyberlink but dxva disabled... great

also according to doom9 badabooms quality sucks ass, and the speed isnt that great either
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Last edited by M.D. Geist; 2008-08-15 at 08:23.
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Old 2008-08-15, 17:22   Link #20
encia
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Originally Posted by M.D. Geist View Post
so youre playing the file with cyberlink but dxva disabled... great
With further investigation, DXVA (via G84M A2 stepping) enabled PowerDVD 8 (with updated patches) will play back the video with screen breakup issues.
Anyway, there's a backup multi-core CPU... The shown CPU load was from 2.2Ghz mobile Core 2 Duo.

My Radeon HD 3870 and Nero 8's ShowTime causes a BSOD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M.D. Geist View Post
also according to doom9 badabooms quality sucks ass, and the speed isnt that great either
In regards to speed, what GPU and driver did doom9 use?

Last edited by encia; 2008-08-15 at 19:34.
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