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Old 2008-08-02, 19:30   Link #9861
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
Assuming the Chinese and Indians withdraw their forces, that's still however many enlisted Japanese to deal with. It's still a sizable force.
Not when the Indian and Chinese forces both outnumber the BK. And that they are all living on an Island on loan from China and can be kicked out at any time.

At best, only a percentage of the 1 million Japanese are soldiers. The rest are their families. And if they resist, they put their families at risk. If they refuse to give back what they don't own, they will all die.
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Old 2008-08-02, 19:31   Link #9862
Orga777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Not when the Indian and Chinese forces both outnumber the BK. And that they are all living on an Island on loan from China and can be kicked out at any time.
That means nothing. They will either deal with Britannia or deal with the Black Knights. They can't afford to deal with both at the same time. If they do, Britannia would steam roll them.

Also, you assume that India and China won't follow the Black Knights lead. Which I think they will.
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Old 2008-08-02, 19:33   Link #9863
morbosfist
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They may outnumber them, but they don't necessarily outgun them. Also, the island they live on makes little difference. It doesn't change the fact that they still control the ship and all the Knightmares on board.
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Old 2008-08-02, 19:35   Link #9864
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
That means nothing. They will either deal with Britannia or deal with the Black Knights. They can't afford to deal with both at the same time. If they do, Britannia would steam roll them.

Also, you assume that India and China won't follow the Black Knights lead. Which I think they will.
Why would the BK matter? They only deal with BK because of Zero, no one else in BK actually matter to India or China. They will just hire Zero as a consultant and continue with their war on Britannia.

You make it sound like BK is a threat to anyone without Zero in charge.
And exactly why would China and India follow a Zero-less BK? They are just a small bunch of terrorists without Zero.

Quote:
They may outnumber them, but they don't necessarily outgun them. Also, the island they live on makes little difference. It doesn't change the fact that they still control the ship and all the Knightmares on board.
India supplied them with the "guns". And if Indian engineers leave, they would soon have no working weapons.

Everything BK needed to supplied is given to them from the outside. They are not self-sufficient at all.
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Old 2008-08-02, 19:37   Link #9865
Orga777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Why would the BK matter? They only deal with BK because of Zero, no one else in BK actually matter to India or China. They will just hire Zero as a consultant and continue with their war on Britannia.
They would still have to fight them off if they want their stuff back. And fighting back against any significant armed force while dealing with an even BIGGER one at the same time means total disaster.

Quote:
You make it sound like BK is a threat to anyone without Zero in charge.
I actually mean following the BK's lead in tossing Zero away.
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Old 2008-08-02, 19:38   Link #9866
DarkLordOfkichiku
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
Also, you assume that India and China won't follow the Black Knights lead. Which I think they will.
Well, you're probably right. The dice has as of now already been thrown. Like it or not, with or without Zero, the OotBK has in a sense become their united front, so to speak, so they might not so easily be able to withdraw any support from them, or their supposedly "united front" crumbles...
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Old 2008-08-02, 19:40   Link #9867
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
I actually mean following the BK's lead in tossing Zero away.
Why? Zero is the only reason BK even matter. India and China already considered the risks when they work with a masked nameless man. Now that they know who Zero is, it would be safer than ever to work with him.
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Old 2008-08-02, 19:40   Link #9868
Orga777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Why? Zero is the only reason BK even matter. India and China already considered the risks when they work with a masked nameless man. Now that they know who Zero is, it would be safer than ever to work with him.
Not if they don't think their own well being is being taken care of they won't.
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Old 2008-08-02, 19:44   Link #9869
Slick_rick
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Zero might be the best leader but he is by no means the only leader now in their forces. They can afford to toss him away more than they can afford to toss away the military strength of the Bk. Not to mention now they have reasons to doubt Zero's loyalty too.
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Old 2008-08-02, 19:46   Link #9870
demon_god04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkLordOfkichiku View Post
Well, you're probably right. The dice has as of nowalready been thrown. like it or not, with or without Zero, the OotBK has in a sense become their united front, so to speak, so they might not so easily be able to withdraw any support from them, or their supposedly "united front" crumbles...
Except that the UN are made of nations that have their own interests and goals and are held together by Zero's charisma and ability. The exiled governments of the conquered Areas and the Japanese want their countries liberated, the Chinese were fragmented and under threat from invasion by Britannia, India sought independence in supporting Zero and no doubt the remnant of the EU that joined also have their own interests. They believe in Zero's abilities which is why the UN was formed.
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Old 2008-08-02, 19:48   Link #9871
Orga777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
Except that the UN are made of nations that have their own interests and goals and are held together by Zero's charisma and ability. The exiled governments of the conquered Areas and the Japanese want their countries liberated, the Chinese were fragmented and under threat from invasion by Britannia, India sought independence in supporting Zero and no doubt the remnant of the EU that joined also have their own interests. They believe in Zero's abilities which is why the UN was formed.
Again. If they think Zero is not out for their best interests, they will discard him and either go back to being separate, or they will just follow the remaining Black Knights. Oh, and Zero isn't the only one with charisma here. He wasn't even there when the BK's were making this team-up. It was Xing-ke and Kaguya mostly.
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Old 2008-08-02, 19:49   Link #9872
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xingke is just as good as zero, even zero stated that himself.
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Old 2008-08-02, 19:51   Link #9873
Slick_rick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
Except that the UN are made of nations that have their own interests and goals and are held together by Zero's charisma and ability. The exiled governments of the conquered Areas and the Japanese want their countries liberated, the Chinese were fragmented and under threat from invasion by Britannia, India sought independence in supporting Zero and no doubt the remnant of the EU that joined also have their own interests. They believe in Zero's abilities which is why the UN was formed.
Well their belief in Zero's skill is part of the reason but the main reason is because they don't want to be controlled by Brittania. So how do you think they will feel once its revealed that Zero is a Brittanian Prince in disguise? Now that they have the forces to fight back they can afford to take the risk that another leader can achieve victory for them more so that trusting a person that might turn around and betray them in the end.
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Old 2008-08-02, 19:52   Link #9874
SoldierOfDarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Why would the BK matter? They only deal with BK because of Zero, no one else in BK actually matter to India or China. They will just hire Zero as a consultant and continue with their war on Britannia.

You make it sound like BK is a threat to anyone without Zero in charge.
And exactly why would China and India follow a Zero-less BK? They are just a small bunch of terrorists without Zero.

.

Technically speaking, Xing Ke and Tianzi still owe Zero a favour for saving their lives during that Tomb battle in China. Given that Xing Ke is a man of his words who hates to owe debts he'll no doubt pay a favour for him.
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Old 2008-08-02, 19:54   Link #9875
Orga777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
Technically speaking, Xing Ke and Tianzi still owe Zero a favour for saving their lives during that Tomb battle in China. Given that Xing Ke is a man of his words who hates to owe debts he'll no doubt pay a favour for him.
Yeah. Probably helping him get the hell out of dodge. Doesn't mean he can afford to still follow him though if everyone turns on him.
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Old 2008-08-02, 19:55   Link #9876
DarkLordOfkichiku
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
Except that the UN are made of nations that have their own interests and goals and are held together by Zero's charisma and ability. The exiled governments of the conquered Areas and the Japanese want their countries liberated, the Chinese were fragmented and under threat from invasion by Britannia, India sought independence in supporting Zero and no doubt the remnant of the EU that joined also have their own interests. They believe in Zero's abilities which is why the UN was formed.
Well, it's true that the groundwork for it was laid by Zero, but as episode 14 hinted at, for the last few episodes the forming of the UN has been left to the others in the OotBK, meanign that he has left the reins to others, so...
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Old 2008-08-02, 19:55   Link #9877
Slick_rick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
Technically speaking, Xing Ke and Tianzi still owe Zero a favour for saving their lives during that Tomb battle in China. Given that Xing Ke is a man of his words who hates to owe debts he'll no doubt pay a favour for him.
Yea he'll probably give Zero a head start before he proceed to track him down and attempts to capture/kill him.
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Old 2008-08-02, 19:56   Link #9878
Freya
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Only a few more hours till ep 17 comes out lol. Woot?
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Old 2008-08-02, 19:57   Link #9879
kk2extreme
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
Yea he'll probably give Zero a head start before he proceed to track him down and attempts to capture/kill him.
or they provide a safe house for him so no one can find him.
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Old 2008-08-02, 19:57   Link #9880
True Warrior
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
Again. If they think Zero is not out for their best interests, they will discard him and either go back to being separate, or they will just follow the remaining Black Knights. Oh, and Zero isn't the only one with charisma here. He wasn't even there when the BK's were making this team-up. It was Xing-ke and Kaguya mostly.
The main motif here is that there is no turning back now, if they withdraw more than likely Britannia has already won, hey Charles said it himself whoever wins rules the world, so it's hardly unlikely they'll begin to panic if Zero isn't present.
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