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Old 2009-12-20, 22:23   Link #2281
DragoZERO
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Whoa. That was shocking and yet oddly uneventful.

Spoiler for Episode 25:

It feels like they can get at least two or three more episodes out of what's been left open. The final episode is going to be a doozy.
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Old 2009-12-21, 00:25   Link #2282
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All I can say is I will definitely miss this show after its over next week. The odd approach it takes is so refreshing compared to many of the animes out there.

I thought this episode was great, and yes Kanzaki is a great character. I really loved that scene where she was talking to Rina and exited the building.


Well I guess everyone has to predict what's going to happen next week and this will be my bet. Touya ends up with Yuki. This is the obvious ending to me.
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Old 2009-12-21, 10:05   Link #2283
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The plot is BRILLIANT. I love the storyline despite it being a J-Drama type.

Menou's "f*** me" was epic. All she does for Touya so she could have sex with him? Actually, everything is turning out straight in the end :

1. Kanzaki is mending her broken family with both her daughters who hate her (especially the cute younger tsundere).

2. That fat security guard was a huge Rina fan and did the right thing! Or so it seems.....

3. Rina is not attending Venus, but it seems that she found solace in Touya's companionship.

4. Eiji turned himself over to the police in the end because he had straightened out his thoughts.

5. Akira and Touya became good friends again, albeit maintaining their sarcastic to-and-fro at each other.

6. Yayoi cleared up everything with Touya without breaking Yuki's heart.

Hopefully there will be an epilogue OVA to tie all lose ends together. This anime might even get a live action if we are lucky.
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Old 2009-12-21, 10:39   Link #2284
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ep 25

Well it was a most unimpressive episode though we did get some answers to some floating questions. Im happy to see that my hunch about Menou starting the savior goddess habit was correct. She stated that everything she did she did for Touya's sake and it seems she wanted to rewarded but was promptly interrupted by her mother lol. I must admit seeing Menou trying to escape and Touya holding her was damn funny. But i want to know is the depth of her feelings for Touya.

sigh i knew they would end up doing this with Yayoi. I guess we can be happy that even bothered to touch on it but it was poorly done in my opinion. It lasted not even 5 min and it was done. Despite what Yayoi was saying to TOuya it was obvious that she lying about certain parts. When she said she hated Touya and always have if you look at her eyes (which are usually emotionless) they were cast down and also she started fidgeting with her arm. These are usually signs that a person is holding back or not being 100% truthful. Also, when Touya hugged her the whole atmosphere changed. Though her feelings might not be as strong as some of us originally thought she did had feelings for him it was obvious with her body language. She broke it off for the right reasons but that only goes back to her not wanting Yuki to suffer anymore and now that she had made progress there is more for her to lose. Her comment about eventually "everyone she loves" will leave her was actually sad and i pitied her for a bit. However one can assume that she started to feel close to Touya because she said "that he has never really loved and does not know how to love" I think she saw a bit of herself in Touya. Its just too bad that this aspect of the story was tossed aside once they figured out that them just having sex was not going to keep the audience interested. We need more than just a the physical side of their relationship and we didnt get it. In some ways i dont think Yayoi will ever be happy and may be doomed to watch life pass her by while she watches on the side lines.

I actually found AKira and Touya's conversation at Echos very well done it was light hearted and funny as they try a little detective work to figure who Menou was and where Touya met her and who could have poisoned Rina. Furthermore Touya's impression of Haruka was hilarious" pointing finger" "Ah Yuki!"

Also, Kazaki quickly became one of my favorite characters she is not a cold hearted bitch she has made some wrong choices in her life but she is strong woman who loves her daughter but did not always show it properly. It seems she has a big heart but is still bossy even in someone elses house (get me some cups TOuya!!!) lol. It seems she is going to have a proper talk with her and learn what her motivations are.

Well they caught the person who poisoned Rina with the help of fatso. However, I did not buy the excuse she is psychologically damaged hence why she couldnt sing. Im not saying that its not a possibility it was just presented wrong. However, the scene following that where she was trying to sing but no words would come out was heartbreaking. But the writers managed to get their point across which this whole situation is heartbreaking and possible psychologically damaging to Rina. Touya by the end of the episode was like an empty shell however i believe he made the right decision to stay with Rina instead of going to the Venus festival. Rina needs him right now and i believe he is also aware of this. At this point I would settle for Rina end if it was possible Yuki seems to be going to full ahead with her career even if she has be pushed a little. I would also settle for Touya doing some self searching and not ending with anyone for the time being. He really needs to find happiness by himself before he can be happy with someone else. btw i love how they skipped over Yuki learning about Touya's dad death they still have not touched on that with her.

Over all White Album has some incredible strengths but the pitfalls here and there knock it back down just when it seems it going to excel. Trying to identify with the characters in White Album has been a challenge and trying to figure out their motivations is even more frustrating sometimes its hard to care about them at all. But every now and then a chracter does something that just blows my mind away, we near the end so far its going to get a solid 7 in my book but that of course is depending on the ending and how the writers execute it.
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Old 2009-12-21, 11:18   Link #2285
DragoZERO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Menou's "f*** me" was epic. All she does for Touya so she could have sex with him? Actually, everything is turning out straight in the end.
I'd be disappointed that nothing happened but it's not like we would have seen anything good. But I really don't think she did it so she can sleep with him though. She did it to protect the little lost boy and what he was looking for in the forest.

Another thing I just realized is what Touya was looking for in the forest when he was young is symbolic of the love he is searching for now. Menou helped him then and is helping him now (sort of, I guess she wants a helping while she can).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinestra View Post
Well it was a most unimpressive episode thought we got some answers. Im happy to see that happy hunch about Menou starting the savior goddess was correct. She stated that everything she did she did for Touya's sake and it seems she wanted to rewarded but were promptly interrupted by her mother lol. I must admit seeing Menou trying to escape and Touya holding her was damn funny. But i want to know is what is the depth of her feelings for Touya.
It was funny that is was her mother of all people to interrupt her.

Quote:
sigh i knew they would end up doing this with Yayoi. I guess we can be happy that even bothered to touch on it but it was poorly done in my opinion. It lasted not even 5 min and it was done. Despite what Yayoi was saying to TOuya it was obvious that she lying about certain parts. When she said she hated Touya and always have if you look at her eyes (which are usually emotionless) they were cast down and also she started fidgeting with her arm. These are usually signs that a person is holding back or not being 100% truthful. Also, when Touya hugged her the whole atmosphere changed. Though her feelings might not be as strong as some of us originally thought she did had feelings for him it was obvious with her body language. She broke it off for the right reasons but that only goes back to her not wanting Yuki to suffer anymore and now that she had made progress there is more for her to lose. Her comment about eventually "everyone she loves" will leave her was actually sad and i pitied her for a bit. However one can assume that she started to feel close to Touya because she said "that he has never really loved and does not know how to love" I think she saw a bit of herself in Touya. Its just too bad that this aspect of the story was tossed aside once they figured out that them just having sex was not going to keep the audience interested. We need more than just a the physical side of their relationship and we didnt get it. In some ways i dont think Yayoi will ever be happy and may be doomed to watch life pass her by while she watches on the side lines.
<3 Yayoi

Quote:
I actually found AKira and Touya's conversation at Echos very well done it was light hearted and funny as they try a little detective work to figure who Menou was and where Touya met her and who could have poisoned Rina. Furthermore Touya's impression of Haruka was hilarious" pointing finger" "Ah Yuki!"
That was really funny. It was a great impression and something Haruka would totally do too.

Quote:
Well they caught the person who poisoned Rina with the help of fatso.
I thought it was that fatso that did the poisoning and then framed the manager. Rina's never done anything that horrible to that manager or anything.

Quote:
However, I did not buy the excuse she is psychologically damaged hence why she couldnt sing. Im not saying that its not a possibility it was just presented wrong. However, the scene following that where she was trying to sing but no words would come out was heartbreaking. But the writers managed to get their point across which this whole situation is heartbreaking and possible psychologically damaging to Rina.
It is a strange reason but I think they did it to help her final character development.

Quote:
Touya by the end of the episode was like an empty shell however i believe he made the right decision to stay with Rina instead of going to the Venus festival. Rina needs him right now and i believe he is also aware of this. At this point I would settle for Rina end if it was possible Yuki seems to be going to full ahead with her career even if she has be pushed a little. I would also settle for Touya doing some self searching and not ending with anyone for the time being. He really needs to find happiness by himself before he can be happy with someone else. btw i love how they skipped over Yuki learning about Touya's dad death they still have not touched on that with her.
I think a Touya only ending is prime. It'd feel a little forced to have a Yuki or Rina ending at this point. There just isn't enough time to solidify it all.

Quote:
Over all White Album has some incredible strengths but the pitfalls here and there knock it back down just when it seems it going to excel. Trying to identify with the characters in White Album has been a challenge and trying to figure out their motivations is even more frustrating sometimes its hard to care about them at all. But every now and then a chracter does something that just blows my mind away, we near the end so far its going to get a solid 7 in my book but that of course is depending on the ending and how the writers execute it.
I'm still giving it a 10/10. All of the fun I have watching it makes up for what it lacks and where it fails. You can't always look at something objectively and all, gotta factor in the fun!
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Old 2009-12-21, 13:06   Link #2286
wb121
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I really rank this anime highly (at least for this seaon). Any anime that makes me "OMG I wanna see the next episode now!" is at least a 9/10

On another note, poor Rina

I also like/hate how they decide not to let us hear their songs (before possibly the last episode).
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Old 2009-12-21, 13:32   Link #2287
Kaoru Chujo
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Originally Posted by Sinestra View Post
...Trying to identify with the characters in White Album has been a challenge and trying to figure out their motivations is even more frustrating sometimes its hard to care about them at all....
This is part of what is so special about the show for me, paradoxically. I still don't understand anyone, really, but I now find them all strangely moving.

I agree with DragoZERO that Menou did it, not to become Touya's lover, but "to protect the little lost boy and what he was looking for in the forest." I think Menou really is a goddess: strange and powerful and unpredictable, like Kali or Isis.

The difficulty of understanding where Yayoi was telling the truth to Touya and where she was covering up her feelings was delicious. From the beginning of the series, it was impossible to know how much she felt for him, how much she was doing it for Yuki and her job, and how much she was doing it for pure pleasure.

I have to accept the medical word that Rina's inability to sing was from psychological shock, not physical damage. It makes her more interesting and more like Sheryl: the powerful goddess who actually has weakness hidden inside, from her problematic childhood.

Would Touya have gone ahead with Menou if her mother had not come in? I think so. But why did he then obey Kanzaki and prevent Menou leaving? Just because he worked for her? And then why did Menou write that she would be back that evening? Subtle stuff.

I don't expect a very settled ending. I do expect Yuki and Touya "together," but whether he is with Yuki or Rina, it is just a relationship that is beginning, really, not one that is deep yet. Yuki is almost the strangest of all: how can she be so weak and yet so strong at the same time? And they could all drift away in their separate directions.
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Old 2009-12-21, 14:24   Link #2288
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Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
Would Touya have gone ahead with Menou if her mother had not come in? I think so.
He mentioned that she would get risk getting hurt again, but Menou didn't mind. He was going to take it all the way.

Quote:
But why did he then obey Kanzaki and prevent Menou leaving? Just because he worked for her? And then why did Menou write that she would be back that evening? Subtle stuff.
He probably knew she was trying to run away from everything and felt obligated to stop her, not just out of loyalty to Kanzaki. As for Menou writing she'd be back, I think she's become co-dependent on Touya similar to how Yayoi had before, which is why she's constantly visiting him even when he's not around.

Maybe she'll properly tell him goodbye when she returns. Or have sex with him, we don't know
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Old 2009-12-21, 14:35   Link #2289
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Menou was obviously using Touya. At first he was her test subject, then she completely forgot about him due to hanging with the wrong crowd and probably having other male subjects, and then when her life began to fall apart and probably having no other people to rely on, she bumped into our main character and decided to give it another go.

No different than all the other female cast, poor Touya. I liked the Yayoi and Touya scene in the beginning though; I'm surely sure that Yayoi fell at least in love with Touya, even a little. Now the last episode is probably gonna be between Rina and Yuki (which of course Yuki will probably win).
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Old 2009-12-21, 14:46   Link #2290
DragoZERO
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Originally Posted by wb121 View Post
I really rank this anime highly (at least for this seaon). Any anime that makes me "OMG I wanna see the next episode now!" is at least a 9/10
Exactly!! +1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeter View Post
He probably knew she was trying to run away from everything and felt obligated to stop her, not just out of loyalty to Kanzaki. As for Menou writing she'd be back, I think she's become co-dependent on Touya similar to how Yayoi had before, which is why she's constantly visiting him even when he's not around.

Maybe she'll properly tell him goodbye when she returns. Or have sex with him, we don't know
Touya knows that Menou runs away from her job, she even kicked her out of his apartment once before. So it isn't too far of a stretch for him to figure out that Kanzaki going to his apartment must be for something important.

And yeah, I still say she wants her helping of Touya. Her Onee-chan would be really jealous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwei View Post
No different than all the other female cast, poor Touya. I liked the Yayoi and Touya scene in the beginning though; I'm surely sure that Yayoi fell at least in love with Touya, even a little. Now the last episode is probably gonna be between Rina and Yuki (which of course Yuki will probably win).
I smiled when Yayoi and Touya were alone. I was like "here we go" and it didn't go. But like Sinestra said, her body language told us how she really felt.
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Old 2009-12-21, 15:01   Link #2291
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I do agree that Touya would have gone all the way with Menou. Menou is not only attractive and aggressive but she is also alluring and seductive just listen to her voice i cant help but to think of succubus when i hear and see her actions and reactions. The look on Touya's face said "i have only one defense" he played the hurt card and the bluff was completely blown away by Menou's prowess. Kazaki saved his ass.

Im wondering if Menou did all of this because she is trying to get back to the days of when she met Touya. Its possible she could feel tainted and the memory of that lost innocent little boy made her feel innocent, pure and like she could really care for someone.

I actually really like Menou she breaks the mold of certain female characters which i love.
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Old 2009-12-21, 15:06   Link #2292
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People say that it is hard to relate to the characters because they often act in unpredictable or irrational ways... However, that is what makes these characters so much more human. Humans are often controlled by their emotions and not rationalizations. Why so many of the characters' actions have seemed contradictory is because their rational side is conflicting with their own emotions. They know they can't do something, but they want to (Many of the girls trying to get into Touya's pants).

And I think the idea of Touya ending up alone defeats the purpose of the struggle in this show. This has been a hurricane that has passed over Yuki and Touya. Their relationship is hanging by a thread. We've already seen his Dad die in a lonely and miserable way. That is what Touya himself said he doesn't want to end up like. If Touya doesn't end up being with someone in the end, and probably Yuki as a matter of a fact, then he will end up like his father and ultimately fail in his life.

We have seen many of the characters already give up on their old way of living, and start anew, and I think we saw this clearly with Kanzaki this episode and perhaps Eiji as well. It is only reasonable to expect that the rest of the characters will do the same, namely Touya, Rina, Menou, and Yuki.
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Old 2009-12-21, 15:07   Link #2293
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Well, about the Rina's voice problem: Psychological doesn't mean she subconciously doesn't want to sing or anything like that. It means from the shock and trauma she sealed her voice andsubconciously fears to use her voice again. The two thing may seem similar but not even nearly the same. It's like a phobia as she always remembers to that near death scene when she tries to use her voice.
Well, as others said it's quite a convinient thing as Rina can speak any time the script wants her to and claim she's starts to or already recovered.

Anyways my predictions and optinions about the next episde:
Spoiler for speculation:
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Old 2009-12-21, 15:39   Link #2294
DragoZERO
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You know, Rina really got the short end of the stick this season. She is a main character and got so little screen time and development. I wonder what the point of her being in the OP, just because Yuki was in the first one?

Hey, hey, what if they don't conclude it and say there's a third season coming next winter or something? They could squeeze out another six episodes I'd say. (I don't want it to end!!)
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Old 2009-12-21, 16:08   Link #2295
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
I smiled when Yayoi and Touya were alone. I was like "here we go" and it didn't go. But like Sinestra said, her body language told us how she really felt.
It's probably going to end up my favorite scene of the series, because it's the first time we see Yayoi act like an actual human with feelings instead the robot with a mission. I love seeing hidden sides to my favorite characters, and that was truly a nicely handled scene.
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Old 2009-12-21, 16:11   Link #2296
Kaoru Chujo
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...Menou is not only attractive and aggressive but she is also alluring and seductive just listen to her voice i cant help but to think of succubus when i hear and see her actions and reactions.... I actually really like Menou she breaks the mold of certain female characters which i love.
When you mention her voice -- and the word succubus -- I can't help mentioning her seiyuu, SHISHIDO Rumi 宍戸留美. She was a popular singer in the early 90s and even did a swimsuit photo-book (some photos without the swimsuit). She was Mikako in Gokinjo Monogatari and Paradise Kiss, and Rosemary Applefield in Ashita no Najda. She was the very womanly Yumi in Hataraki Man and plays Diana in Jewelpet. Her most profitable role has probably been Onpu Segawa in various Doremi shows.

She's now an elegant 36. Here are a couple of photos, then and now:



She still releases CDs. There are more photos and lots of info (in Japanese) on her homepage. And here -- if you can stand it -- is a video from the early 90s of her singing, showing why she was popular then and why her popularity didn't last that long.
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Last edited by Kaoru Chujo; 2009-12-21 at 16:21.
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Old 2009-12-21, 16:42   Link #2297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
When you mention her voice -- and the word succubus -- I can't help mentioning her seiyuu, SHISHIDO Rumi 宍戸留美. She was a popular singer in the early 90s and even did a swimsuit photo-book (some photos without the swimsuit). She was Mikako in Gokinjo Monogatari and Paradise Kiss, and Rosemary Applefield in Ashita no Najda. She was the very womanly Yumi in Hataraki Man and plays Diana in Jewelpet. Her most profitable role has probably been Onpu Segawa in various Doremi shows.

She's now an elegant 36. Here are a couple of photos, then and now:



She still releases CDs. There are more photos and lots of info (in Japanese) on her homepage. And here -- if you can stand it -- is a video from the early 90s of her singing, showing why she was popular then and why her popularity didn't last that long.
WOW i see what you mean but her voice is so fitting for Menou i believe that hit the target selecting Rumi as her seiyuu.
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Old 2009-12-21, 17:27   Link #2298
Kaoru Chujo
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WOW i see what you mean but her voice is so fitting for Menou i believe that hit the target selecting Rumi as her seiyuu.
I agree wholeheartedly. She may not be a top actress, but her voice has such presence and seductiveness.
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Old 2009-12-21, 17:29   Link #2299
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I really need to watch more Gokinjo Monogatari. What i have seen, i was quite amazed by Shishido Rumi's Mikako. There's also her fantastic job as MOMO in the Xenosaga franchise.
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Old 2009-12-21, 17:46   Link #2300
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I really need to watch more Gokinjo Monogatari. What i have seen, i was quite amazed by Shishido Rumi's Mikako. There's also her fantastic job as MOMO in the Xenosaga franchise.
I agree i dont know why i didnt put it together that she was MOMO's voice in Xenosaga i guess just slipped my mind. I wouldnt mind seeing her in more adult serious roles. As Kaoru Chujo said her voice has such great presence. I love pleasant surprise like this where you get look beyond the role we are currently viewing. I have been wishing for more serious and adult themed anime lately and she would be perfect as a seductress or a wronged lover.
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