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Old 2009-02-03, 21:57   Link #481
Traece
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faust123 View Post
Murphy's Law in full effect my friend.

I liked this episode a lot. There was a subtle tension throughout, and as the end neared I just kept thinking, "wow this is going to be over soon and I am going to be pissed." I really enjoy the slow build up, and I feel like yayoi's actions in episode 5 show that this series is slightly more unpredictable than we first thought.

Not much else to say that hasn't been said - biggest cliff hanger for me is what rina wants :b
White Album is extremely unpredictable and it's quite refreshing. I'm enjoying this anime a great deal if not just for the fact that it's wildly unpredictable. I never know what's going to happen. If you read a few posts back, I mentioned that I thought for days about that hallway before they revealed the secret door.
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Old 2009-02-03, 22:00   Link #482
DragoZERO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
lol, she fell asleep while he was showering. You would think the anxiety would keep her awake.
She did run around all day plus her work is very tiring. And if I were him I would have just slept right next to her.. why stay up and fret all night.

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Originally Posted by germanturkey View Post
...didn't they have caller id in the 80s...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caller_ID - since it was under development in the late 70's and early 80's it wasn't used widespread. Plus I'm sure it was an extra charge for many years. But this my guesstimates with regards to Japan, so yeah.
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Old 2009-02-04, 02:12   Link #483
HayashiTakara
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I somehow think that she had coldfeet and pretended to be asleep.
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Old 2009-02-04, 03:03   Link #484
Mentar
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Some quick thoughts to ep5:

Closet mystery solved. So obviously it leads to some place where Eiji is working (probably composing), and Rina knows about it, since she flushed him out. Gives me a good feeling that the show is obviously willing to tie up former loose threads.

Contentwise, I find it both hilarious and sad at the same way how circumstances are conspiring against our lead pair. If anyone can come up with another non-comedy anime where the lead girl wants to spend the night with the male lead unsuccessfully like this, I'd like a reference.

Hung jury about Touya. On one hand, I do respect that he let Yuki sleep when he returned, even though he was clearly disappointed about this turn of events. He also eventually rejected Yayoi's bribery attempts with cash and sex, but he WAS fantasizing about her lips throughout the episode, along with memories of Rina too. So, he _is_ susceptible to outside temptation, but so far, he's been shying away briefly before giving in. Yet. He DID manage to thank Haruka for her efforts to help him (plus!), but not without thoughtlessly hurting her in the process (his bragging at the end of their notebook convo). And I also appreciate his willingness to help Misaki, but not without being too late AGAIN, and inadvertently cutting off Yuki once more.

About Misaki: I somehow doubt that the problem is that she rejected the prime meanie or so, but she clearly humiliated him in some way. Maybe she replaced him as scriptwriter or so, something related to their club activities. Well, there's the next obstacle for the "I won't sleep tonight" project... and I'm sure Touya will respond to the call for help.

Akira: Wuss. Seriously. Stop pouting and DO something.

Haruka: Sorry, girl. Really sorry, the story is cruel to you. She will continue to help Touya more than he ever realizes (it was _her_ who figured out Yuki's note, Touya was clueless), but it's a very very thankless job. You really need to make some more and new friends and drop your romantic hopes. The note conversation indicated that she still harbors some.

Yayoi - very interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if she were a former (failed) model. She's gorgeous and has a strong presence, so I would consider it quite possible. Maybe she failed due to a sucky manager, which could explain why she's so extreme in her efforts to do a perfect job for Yuki. At the same time, a very scary woman. Scary, how far she's willing to go.

Not much to say about Rina, except that she happily accepted the "-chan" (the first instance with Touya semi-asleep doesn't count), and that due to the sound of her voice I doubt that the issue she wanted to talk about was a problem of hers. Probably she wants to talk with him about Yuki and get one hour more of goddess cake.

Looking forward to the next ep! I wished I wouldn't have to wait a week time and time again, but at the same time I also believe that this show would be very ill-suited for marathoning. You'd miss too many details in the process.
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Old 2009-02-04, 04:03   Link #485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Hung jury about Touya. On one hand, I do respect that he let Yuki sleep when he returned, even though he was clearly disappointed about this turn of events. He also eventually rejected Yayoi's bribery attempts with cash and sex, but he WAS fantasizing about her lips throughout the episode, along with memories of Rina too. So, he _is_ susceptible to outside temptation, but so far, he's been shying away briefly before giving in.
Hmmm Would average guys really be so rude as to wake a girl up and go "Hey you wake up we're supposed to be having some fun time not sleepy time!"?

As for Yayoi's creepy seduction, I say to this that any man who can reject the temptation of sex AND money combined from an attractive yet creepy woman earns my respect on the spot,and boy it looked like Yayoi was offering quite a bit.
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Old 2009-02-04, 04:07   Link #486
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Hopefully we get more background info on Yayoi soon. Wasn't expecting Yayoi to do that to Touya.
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Old 2009-02-04, 04:13   Link #487
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Originally Posted by SonOfHeaven View Post
Hopefully we get more background info on Yayoi soon. Wasn't expecting Yayoi to do that to Touya.
Yeah for as robotic as she seems, she didn't seem like the type to do something like that huh?
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Old 2009-02-04, 05:57   Link #488
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DingoEnderZOE2 View Post
Hmmm Would average guys really be so rude as to wake a girl up and go "Hey you wake up we're supposed to be having some fun time not sleepy time!"?

As for Yayoi's creepy seduction, I say to this that any man who can reject the temptation of sex AND money combined from an attractive yet creepy woman earns my respect on the spot,and boy it looked like Yayoi was offering quite a bit.
The way she did it though was just plain messed up. You'd have to be Makoto-level horniness to consent to that. At the very least, any non-idiot would at least think that there must be something up.

During the episode, I was thinking Yayoi would be be sneaking some pictures of her and Touya together, and somehow "leaking" it to Yuki. That would actually be the most affective method of breaking them up.
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Old 2009-02-04, 06:19   Link #489
Sorrow-K
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Ep 5

Oh man, what a loser! The girl is so unexcited about the prospect of sex that she falls asleep before it happens. The only thing that would have been worse for Touya's ego is if Yuki fell asleep during...

I'm starting to accept that Touya is a very limited character, and there's very little interest from this anime in developing his character. Yuki's a bit the same, but there's less excuse with Yuki... the flat male lead who's there purely to make poor decisions for the sake of drama is a staple for this genre, but there's a greater necessity to make the important female characters interesting, simply because that's who the audience are interested in. Yuki is just not interesting, and they're fast running out of time to change that. If it turns out that she's only there to be at one end of a crumbling relationship with the male lead, then she's a plot device in a wasted role.

Yayoi had the potential to be an interesting character, especially with the turn of events in this episode, but I had the feeling throughout this episode that something was holding her back, and I think Sinestra nailed it: there's no emotions with this woman. Here was a great opportunity for drama, as well as an opportunity to make a comment on the grotesque nature of the idol industry (which they did successfully to a fair extent), but it wasn't nearly as effective as it could have been, because the evidence of the adverse effects that the ugliness of the industry had on Yayoi were disguised by her lack of emotions. When watching her, one asks the question, does she do this because she cares about Yuki's success and was affected by her failure with Rina, or does she do this because she's a career orientated juggernaut? And, if it's the latter, did her experiences with Rina make her like this, or was she like this from the beginning? Again, I think they've limited the scope to say something interesting about this character by making her, in a certain respect, a caricature. It's a bit like watching a robot... a robot trying to bribe someone with sex, but a robot nonetheless.

I continue to be disappointed with how this show is going about character development. When are they going to say something interesting about the characters, something more than just the bare necessities to set up the plot and ensuing drama.
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Old 2009-02-04, 07:52   Link #490
andiyar
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I find myself rather enjoying White Album... though I must confess I continue returning to the middle of episode 3 and watching Nana Mizuki sing, over and over again. I really want that song ^_^

I think I may return with a more detailed analysis later - I'm currently cutting film together - but I am falling somewhere between Sorrow-K and Mentar here in terms of how I feel about the characters of White Album. I suppose I can sum it up in a few words (mostly): They aren't very rounded, but I still find them mostly captivating.

Interesting. I normally detest flat characters.


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Old 2009-02-04, 08:46   Link #491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorrow-K View Post
I continue to be disappointed with how this show is going about character development. When are they going to say something interesting about the characters, something more than just the bare necessities to set up the plot and ensuing drama.
There are many ways to enjoy a show. Perhaps you've been approaching White Album from the wrong angle? It's been 5 episodes and all you do is whine. Try stepping back, clearing your mind of expectations, and watching it all over again.

To me, White Album is one big mystery, and we are its detectives. Follow Touya as he moves through the world of a past age, sense his thoughts as they trickle out. Who are these people he interacts with? What could they possibly want? Why do they act as they do? Spot the clues, pick them up, touch them, smell them, ponder their significance. Soon more will be revealed, new hints found under rocks previously unturned. Touya is not a very precise instrument, but his actions stir up currents, and in every meeting with people, we can see new possibilities appear as the water shifts. White Album is an excavation - covered in sand - and Touya is our brush.

You just don't seem to have the patience, or the trust in the creators, to appreciate this series. Or perhaps the imagination? What I most enjoy is the potential, and as long as I believe the next episode can bring me the piece I need to make sense of it all, that final clue to solve the case, I'll continue to love White Album.

In the end it may fail, as many shows do, but the journey there will still have been magical.
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Old 2009-02-04, 09:28   Link #492
SuperKnuckles
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Haha, this episode had all the trappings of typical soap opera. Apparently Rina's manager was that traumatized by something and she's going gung ho over it beneath her cool exterior? Eiji having a possible relationship with Yuki? Jeez.

Also, apparently, the 'pastel-art = female romantic interest' struck again.
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Old 2009-02-04, 10:03   Link #493
Mazryonh
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinestra View Post

The whole situation with Yayoi blew me away i was like WTF. But after i thought about it some of her actions make sense. She really is like a lifeless doll even her lips were cold according to Touya. Her manner of speaking her posture everything about her seems robotic. To me Yayoi is a women who has nothing but her work thats it and she is willing to go through any lengths to make sure her work is carried out properly. Even if she would have slept Touya she probably would have laid there like a dead fish. She does not show emotion and thats why it was somewhat easy for Touya to resist her in all honesty she is a pretty women with no sex appeal.
I do not know if they rewrote Yayoi's personality for the anime series, but the CGs from the original game definitely portray her as the most, ahem, "assertive" of the heroines during her h-scenes. I'll be following the developments with her character closely.

It's interesting that Leaf decided on this new paradigm for its "AAA" titles. Normally most eroge titles are released with the PC version first, console version second. To Heart 2 was the first major exception I know of, and given how much money Leaf made off of To Heart 2's PC adult version, I think the notion of one for White Album will be very hard for the company to resist, especially in these hard economic times.

If I'm reading Nana Mizuki's role list right, she may have been paid to make "censored" noises already. Apparently she played the main heroine from the eroge "Hourglass of Summer" (illustrated by the same guy who did Tomoyo After, one of Clannad's spin-offs), on the PC version.

I'm confused about just how much eroge roles hurt the careers of Japanese VAs. I don't think people like Shizuka Itou, Rina Satou, or Hitomi Nabatame have been reduced to pariahs for voicing eroge roles (in Itou's case, she's done so quite often). Was To Heart 2 XRATED Rina Satou's first eroge role?

Even if White Album's anime singing seiyuus won't voice an 18+ version, there's more than one way to skin a cat; just have one seiyuu for a heroine's speaking roles and another for that heroine's songs. It'd be like how Sheryl Nome from Macross Frontier was voiced by two VAs--Aya Endo for her speaking roles, May'n for her singing.

If anyone can answer my questions, I'd be most grateful.
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Old 2009-02-04, 12:30   Link #494
rg4619
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazryonh View Post
It's interesting that Leaf decided on this new paradigm for its "AAA" titles. Normally most eroge titles are released with the PC version first, console version second. To Heart 2 was the first major exception I know of, and given how much money Leaf made off of To Heart 2's PC adult version, I think the notion of one for White Album will be very hard for the company to resist, especially in these hard economic times.
Unlike To Heart 2, this is just a revival of an old property. Currently, new titles (the important stuff) are being released on PC first, so there's no particular console-centric trend.

As for a PC version of the White Album remake, we'll have to wait and see.

Quote:
If I'm reading Nana Mizuki's role list right, she may have been paid to make "censored" noises already. Apparently she played the main heroine from the eroge "Hourglass of Summer" (illustrated by the same guy who did Tomoyo After, one of Clannad's spin-offs), on the PC version.
Actually, the developers of the PC version re-recorded all voiceovers using different VAs.

Quote:
I'm confused about just how much eroge roles hurt the careers of Japanese VAs. I don't think people like Shizuka Itou, Rina Satou, or Hitomi Nabatame have been reduced to pariahs for voicing eroge roles (in Itou's case, she's done so quite often).
AFAIK, it isn't much of an issue, as long as work is credited under a pseudonym (although fans and industry people clearly know who the VAs really are). However, with top female seiyuu, there seems to be much more reluctance, perhaps for image reasons.
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Old 2009-02-04, 13:09   Link #495
houkoholic
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Originally Posted by rg4619 View Post
However, with top female seiyuu, there seems to be much more reluctance, perhaps for image reasons.
If a seiyuu already made it to the top, there is no reason to go do that type of "lesser" work because contracts after contracts simply line up at the door step for them to choose from, this is what being a top entertainer essentially means in any entertainment industry and is no different for a seiyuu.

Seiyuu do (or don't do) eroge depending on whether they can find enough work to cover the bills, not so much image reasons. You know the saying - losers can't be choosers, and just using the To Heart example, you only have to look at Ochiai Yurika and what sort of work she does to see how it's just all about the money in the end if you aren't anywhere near the top.
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Old 2009-02-04, 13:17   Link #496
Julius Firefocht
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NK-DS review of White Album ep5 is up.

http://nk-ds.org/2009/02/white-album...uch/#more-2267

I used a different format for this review, since there was so much drama to write about. Turned out pretty well, I think.
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Old 2009-02-04, 17:39   Link #497
Mentar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apr View Post
To me, White Album is one big mystery, and we are its detectives. Follow Touya as he moves through the world of a past age, sense his thoughts as they trickle out. Who are these people he interacts with? What could they possibly want? Why do they act as they do? Spot the clues, pick them up, touch them, smell them, ponder their significance. Soon more will be revealed, new hints found under rocks previously unturned. Touya is not a very precise instrument, but his actions stir up currents, and in every meeting with people, we can see new possibilities appear as the water shifts. White Album is an excavation - covered in sand - and Touya is our brush.
This, I think, captures _exactly_ the appeal the show has to me (and what I suspect is lessening the enjoyment for Sorrow-K). Indeed, the show rewards effort you put into watching it closely and understanding it, because it does NOT spell everything out blatantly. It does NOT go for a mostly-unrelated sequence of weekly climaxes like Honey and Clover or ef, it calmly builds up _one_ story following the classic drama arc development. That is more demanding to the viewer and less "rewarding" early on compared to the shows I listed, if you can't draw pleasure out of the deduction, but I'm convinced that I'll like the eventual resolution much more.

Right now, the pieces are put on the chessboard (though I expect to learn a bit more about Misaki and Mana later), and episode 5 began to spray some gasoline around. The fun for me is trying to spot which will become the spark which will ignite the situation (my guess: it will be a falling-out between Yuki and Rina, with Rina as a consequence deciding to pursue Touya seriously). It's like watching a car accident in slow motion, and right now we're seeing various spots where danger is accumulating. I find that interesting.

The characters are "flat" and there's "no interest in developing characters"? Only if you're unwilling or unable to invest the time to pick up the clues from the show. As an example, I'll take the time to go through episode 5 once and write down what I mean with "picking up clues" (as spoiler to increase readability). Naturally, everything is IMHO and entirely up to debate. Careful, tl;dr warning, don't click on the following wall of text unless you're REALLY interested.

Spoiler for Episode 5:


So. This was just a rundown of the most important parts. I'll probably add my overall analysis of the characters later. As you can see, alot of this is conjecture and speculation. Whoever considers this process to be annoying or tedious probably won't like WA much. I on the other hand love it _because_ of the required "piecing it together" work. And for me, the characters aren't flat in the least
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Old 2009-02-04, 18:30   Link #498
DragoZERO
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Originally Posted by Sorrow-K View Post
...I'm starting to accept that Touya is a very limited character, and there's very little interest from this anime in developing his character. Yuki's a bit the same, but there's less excuse with Yuki... the flat male lead who's there purely to make poor decisions for the sake of drama is a staple for this genre, but there's a greater necessity to make the important female characters interesting, simply because that's who the audience are interested in. Yuki is just not interesting, and they're fast running out of time to change that. If it turns out that she's only there to be at one end of a crumbling relationship with the male lead, then she's a plot device in a wasted role...
That is true Touya is a simpleton so far and Yuki is the same selfish girl idolizing Rina. Right now Rina is what is making this show so good as far as characters go. The presentation of the plot is what has me going. I really like the on screen text, even though a lot of people dislike it, it gives more insight into the character while they are interacting with someone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorrow-K View Post
.... And for me, the characters aren't flat in the least
Yes! Although they aren't developing much there is plenty of depth to them.
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Old 2009-02-04, 21:56   Link #499
Sorrow-K
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@Mentar: But that basically comes back to what I've been saying all along. How much of what you've speculated from the details either isn't going to be explicitly stated down the road when it becomes pertinent to the plot or isn't going to be eventually irrelevant? It's not like these details are keys to a mystery, in most cases, they're indicators of the states of the various relationships.

I just think that the effort that this show is asking from the audience eventually needs to be rewarded, and I don't consider watching a car crash in slow motion to be a rewarding experience. I place a huge emphasis on characters in drama, drama absolutely hinges on characters, IMO. What did we learn about the two main characters in this episode, based on what you've written? Touya is a yes man (not obvious, possibly important), he's tempted by a woman despite being in a relationship (obvious, although the extent to which he's been tempted isn't), and he's bewildered by the choice he has to make between Yuki and Misaki (fairly obvious, a dilemma he has to solve in the next ep). Yuki is affected by the fact that she couldn't stay awake long enough to please her man (fairly obvious, may or may not be important, I'm guessing more likely not). None of this really makes them all too much more interesting or dynamic than they were prior to this episode. It makes for a stark contrast with something like, to pick a random example out of thin air, Marimite, which used its most recent episode to say a lot of very interesting things about three of its characters and their respective relationships, and it did this in what was essentially a filler episode.

My question is, is White Album's approach to storytelling and character analysis superfluous and is there any real benefit to the storytelling or emotional delivery by being this opaque? It almost seems to be a way to force the audience to engage with the story, rather than the story being engaging in its own right, which almost leads me to think it's a gimmick. The key question is whether the story engaging in its own right, and while the series is failing to say anything of interest about its characters or making them more dynamic or having them face dilemmas that the audience can sympathize with, I'd say the answer is "no". It's still the same inane soap opera romance about a bunch of unlikable characters making foolish decisions for the sake of contrived melodrama whether you dress it up with a subdued delivery and overly respectful storytelling approach or not. This is why I'm highly suspicious that the whole thing is a facade, and, despite its subtle approach, the ending is very likely going to be anything but subtle. If that happens, then what's the point of it being subtle (to the point of being opaque) in the first place?

I watched The Wrestler over the weekend, which was an interesting film for a number of reasons, one of which was because it took a subdued and subtle approach to a subject matter that one normally wouldn't expect to take a subdued and subtle approach to. This is a case where the approach enhanced the storytelling, because it allowed the audience to intimately and sympathetically view a vignette of the life of the main character and they used numerous opportunities to analyze and develop the character to explore a number of different sides of him. The film was tempered, reflective and philosophical, which enhanced its capacity to be emotionally affecting. The difference between The Wrestler and White Album is that, while both are taking a subdue approach to storytelling, White Album is missing its opportunities to make comments about the characters to show that they're interesting and multifaceted, something more than the confused male lead that can't maintain his relationships and the bland female lead who's stuck in the middle of three different tug-of-wars.
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Old 2009-02-05, 00:44   Link #500
4Tran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apr View Post
There are many ways to enjoy a show. Perhaps you've been approaching White Album from the wrong angle? It's been 5 episodes and all you do is whine. Try stepping back, clearing your mind of expectations, and watching it all over again.
You're going a bit overboard with your own criticism here. Everyone is welcome to express their own opinions, and Sorrow-K's is both quite well informed and well articulated. It's not the kind of opinion that's based on unrealistic expectations or anything like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by apr View Post
To me, White Album is one big mystery, and we are its detectives. Follow Touya as he moves through the world of a past age, sense his thoughts as they trickle out. Who are these people he interacts with? What could they possibly want? Why do they act as they do? Spot the clues, pick them up, touch them, smell them, ponder their significance. Soon more will be revealed, new hints found under rocks previously unturned. Touya is not a very precise instrument, but his actions stir up currents, and in every meeting with people, we can see new possibilities appear as the water shifts. White Album is an excavation - covered in sand - and Touya is our brush.
While I'm probably not as negative about White Album as Sorrow-K is, I share some of the same misgivings. While you see it as a big mystery, I see it as a relatively straightforward affair. The only thing I have a question about is why Rina is trying so hard to setting Touya and Yuki together. If it was because she had her own romantic intentions towards him, I'd imagine that those should be based on more than the - what? - two face to face meetings and two telephone conversations they shared. And even here, there's obvious plot-related reasons for this interest. Aside from that, the only "mysteries" that I see existing for the characters are their individual backstories - which I'm sure we'll learn in due time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazryonh View Post
I do not know if they rewrote Yayoi's personality for the anime series, but the CGs from the original game...
Please let this be the last "hint" from the game. I'm not going to regard this as a spoiler, but note that the only story discussion allowed from the game is:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoiler Policy
Spoilers are permitted in limited circumstances, provided that they are posted under clearly marked spoiler tags. These exceptions include:
  • Posting and discussing content found on official sites or blogs.
  • Answering specific questions about past or current events using knowledge of the source material. (We strongly encourage posters to discuss any spoilers via PM, rather than in the work's discussion thread.)
  • Comparing events in an adaptation to the way they were presented in the source material or other adaptations. (Discussions about the source material itself, or extended comparisons should be directed to the appropriate manga/novel/game thread.)
Anyone who is interested in game spoilers will say so, and you're best off answering their questions with a PM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorrow-K View Post
It makes for a stark contrast with something like, to pick a random example out of thin air, Marimite, which used its most recent episode to say a lot of very interesting things about three of its characters and their respective relationships, and it did this in what was essentially a filler episode.
That's a bit unfair! Marimite might well have the best writing of any current anime !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorrow-K View Post
My question is, is White Album's approach to storytelling and character analysis superfluous and is there any real benefit to the storytelling or emotional delivery by being this opaque? It almost seems to be a way to force the audience to engage with the story, rather than the story being engaging in its own right, which almost leads me to think it's a gimmick.
You're encapsulating my feelings very well. I think that White Album is a better show when it uses more straightforward storytelling. On the other hand, I sort of like contrived melodrama, so I'm a bit more optimistic about the future episodes .
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