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Old 2009-03-23, 20:54   Link #1201
Reckoner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by War_Lord View Post
Thank you, that really cleared up all my questions. The character interaction is just so vague that it's hard for me to interpret the characters' feelings properly. I think it would've been better off being a novel. Nonetheless, the series is really growing on me.
This is why White Album has received such negative responses, not many people are catching on its subtle hints, so they are left confused and cannot get attached to any characters since they do understand them in the first place.

I liked episode 12 quite a lot. We are finally starting to put all the pieces together, and I assume next episode we will learn even more. That letter made me like Yuki's character just a little more. It shows that she is not as naive as I previously thought and actually understands that her actions are hurting Touya. However, we can tell her response was half hearted as she still had one wish of Touya... And what do you know, he complies.

Rina's "Get the hell out" in this episode was pure win. The silent master of the bar also knocked a little sense into Touya this episode.

Sunohara can't seem to be a good boyfriend for Misaki no matter what he does. Misaki still showing that she is in love with Touya. Mana's mom is a shock!

There are just so many things happening, I am sad that they will be leaving us till the Fall after next episode. So far White Album has just been one of the better done animes of melodrama I have seen in awhile (Besides Ef, and perhaps Toradora if you can call it as such).
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Old 2009-03-23, 21:15   Link #1202
DragoZERO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SageGaiGar View Post
'^5 there.'

Oh and subs are out.

It'll take a bit to digest this episode. Here's the letter as read by Rina... thanks to Eclipse's translations.

Spoiler for Yuki's Letter:

Apologies for any grammatical or other errors.
I was actually going to do that with the letter. Glad I read the topic before I did it. lol.

As for the letter... is Yuki breaking up with him or something? It is really confusing to me. Since its just words coming out of her head. The other thing I found important was that Rina had memorized the whole letter!

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Originally Posted by Traece View Post
Hm... Again there's my hatred for this anime popping up again.

It wouldn't be half as bad if Touya didn't cry on a dime. Seriously, that boy will cry about ANYTHING.

Anyhow, it would seem my prediction of Rina guessing that she was having a little affair with Touya would be correct based on past experience. It would appear that something similar may have occurred in the past with Shinozuka that led to similar issues.

Again, I don't understand Rina's tastes in men and I never will, but thankfully at least Touya is separating himself from Shinozuka at some rate. Though at this point I think he's beyond salvage as a human being.

This anime had such good potential that it just squandered by making the main character be absolutely horrid. There's a lot of disappointment running around this Spring, and thank God for Hayate no Gotoku making things bearable. At least THAT anime wont end or start in shame and angry audiences.

The guy really does cry on a dime. They should have changed that after the first time since I'm sure no one liked it. And Rina is pretty sharp to realize what Yayoi is up to with Touya.
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Originally Posted by golthin View Post
will Misaki realize how twisted Akira is? I will be disappointed if Misaki doesn't break up with Akira this season.
I don't think he is twisted.. just has some issues with his best friend taking all of the girls, especially the one he likes.
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Originally Posted by Pentacle View Post
Second Season set to air in Fall 2009. Ep 14-26, I believe.
It will be a long long wait.
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Old 2009-03-23, 21:17   Link #1203
Zippicus
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
This is why White Album has received such negative responses, not many people are catching on its subtle hints, so they are left confused and cannot get attached to any characters since they do understand them in the first place.
This show is about as subtle as a bull in a china shop. They pretty much club you over the head with the "hints", it's just that most of it makes no rational sense. I think you're mistaking the intentional vagueness he's referring to as subtlety.
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Old 2009-03-23, 21:19   Link #1204
DragoZERO
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Originally Posted by Zippicus View Post
This show is about as subtle as a bull in a china shop. They pretty much club you over the head with the "hints", it's just that most of it makes no rational sense. I think you're mistaking the intentional vagueness he's referring to as subtlety.
I don't know.. I can make sense of most of it. But I am a person who pays attention to detail and all, so yeah.
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Old 2009-03-23, 21:28   Link #1205
Zippicus
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
I don't know.. I can make sense of most of it. But I am a person who pays attention to detail and all, so yeah.
That kind of misses the point of what I was saying. Sure the show is easy enough to follow, and it's pretty clear what the writers expect us to believe, it's just not very rational. It's like I'm watching pod people freshly hatched try to interact with other people and not doing a very good job of it.
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Old 2009-03-23, 21:30   Link #1206
DragoZERO
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Originally Posted by Zippicus View Post
That kind of misses the point of what I was saying. Sure the show is easy enough to follow, and it's pretty clear what the writers expect us to believe, it's just not very rational. It's like I'm watching pod people freshly hatched try to interact with other people and not doing a very good job of it.
How is it not rational? I think one good thing about this series is that it is realistic, because let's face it.. reality isn't always rational.


AND.. I forgot to mention before: I don't know if we were shown Mana's mother before but she is actually the mean manager lady of Sakura-dan (I think that's what the girls are called, I'm sort of guessing).
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Old 2009-03-23, 21:49   Link #1207
prototype_sky
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
How is it not rational? I think one good thing about this series is that it is realistic, because let's face it.. reality isn't always rational.


AND.. I forgot to mention before: I don't know if we were shown Mana's mother before but she is actually the mean manager lady of Sakura-dan (I think that's what the girls are called, I'm sort of guessing).
Is she her step mom? because from their conversation it seems as though Mana doesn't usually address as "Mom" unless she wants something
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Old 2009-03-23, 21:53   Link #1208
SageGaiGar
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Originally Posted by prototype_sky View Post
Is she her step mom? because from their conversation it seems as though Mana doesn't usually address as "Mom" unless she wants something
That or just a typical bad relationship between the two. Yet I could've sworn when she mentioned her mother she said she was a designer. Kind of close. If someone could check back a couple episodes it might clarify.
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Old 2009-03-23, 22:14   Link #1209
Zippicus
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
How is it not rational? I think one good thing about this series is that it is realistic, because let's face it.. reality isn't always rational.
The characters actions don't match up with their motivations. Almost everything they do is contradictory to their (loosely) supplied goals. Some are less guilty of this than others but it's a little too prevalent throughout the whole series to let it slide.
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Old 2009-03-23, 22:29   Link #1210
Reckoner
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Originally Posted by Zippicus View Post
The characters actions don't match up with their motivations. Almost everything they do is contradictory to their (loosely) supplied goals. Some are less guilty of this than others but it's a little too prevalent throughout the whole series to let it slide.
Provide examples, I have felt a generally good consistency in the character's actions. If it's almost everything they do I am sure it is easy enough for you to do.
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Old 2009-03-23, 22:34   Link #1211
SageGaiGar
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Originally Posted by Zippicus View Post
The characters actions don't match up with their motivations. Almost everything they do is contradictory to their (loosely) supplied goals. Some are less guilty of this than others but it's a little too prevalent throughout the whole series to let it slide.
It's called human nature. "Say one thing do another". The majority of the cast is guilty of this.
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Old 2009-03-23, 22:42   Link #1212
Zippicus
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Provide examples, I have felt a generally good consistency in the character's actions. If it's almost everything they do I am sure it is easy enough for you to do.
Sure I'll toss out a couple ideas of what I mean.

Yayoi, goal = help Yuki, actions = hurt Yuki.
Touya, goal = relationship with Yuki, actions = everything but relationship with Yuki.
Misaki, goal = relationship with Touya, action = reject Touya.
Rina is a little more complicated where Yuki is concerned, about half of the things she does help Yuki, the other half hurt.
Haruka goal = Oniichan, actions = lolwut.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SageGaiGar View Post
It's called human nature. "Say one thing do another". The majority of the cast is guilty of this.
Some of that is fine, and even expected, but they kind of overdid that aspect (most likely for the drama). They could have even mitigated some of that by rationalizing, but that is a pretty tall order to fill

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2009-03-23 at 23:40. Reason: Merged double-post
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Old 2009-03-23, 22:52   Link #1213
War_Lord
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Originally Posted by Zippicus View Post
The characters actions don't match up with their motivations. Almost everything they do is contradictory to their (loosely) supplied goals. Some are less guilty of this than others but it's a little too prevalent throughout the whole series to let it slide.
IMO, that applies especially to Touya. For me, he's the most frustrating character to watch.

Quote:
Haruka goal = Oniichan, actions = lolwut.
Couldn't agree more. Now I can't get that random handstand out of my head...
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Old 2009-03-23, 22:57   Link #1214
Reckoner
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Originally Posted by Zippicus View Post
Sure I'll toss out a couple ideas of what I mean.

Yayoi, goal = help Yuki, actions = hurt Yuki.
Touya, goal = relationship with Yuki, actions = everything but relationship with Yuki.
Misaki, goal = relationship with Touya, action = reject Touya.
Rina is a little more complicated where Yuki is concerned, about half of the things she does help Yuki, the other half hurt.
Haruka goal = Oniichan, actions = lolwut.
Yayoi is trying to prevent pain that could come in her life that she probably experienced herself, as there are hints of her having been an idol.

Touya wants to be in a relationship with Yuki, but because he feels he is getting in the way of her career now, and that Yayoi prevents him from seeing her, he does not know how to actually make real contact with her. Now backed up into a corner, he is on the path of self-destruction.

Misaki rejected Touya because she knew Touya's feelings were not truly sincere. Touya likes Yuki, and only truly thinks of Misaki as a friend at this time.

Rina has been trying to help Yuki this whole time, and tries to keep Touya out of trouble.

And by the way, those are not actual examples from the series. Pick out specific events that occurred in the series. It seems you cannot even do that, so why do you expect me to understand your point?
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Old 2009-03-23, 23:08   Link #1215
SageGaiGar
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Originally Posted by Zippicus View Post
Some of that is fine, and even expected, but they kind of overdid that aspect (most likely for the drama). They could have even mitigated some of that by rationalizing, but that is a pretty tall order to fill
In that case, I suggest reading Mentar's previous posting. We've gone over their basic motivations/etc not that long ago.

In hindsight.

Yayoi.. she simply wishes for the advancement of Yuki's career, by any means necessary. Hence, keep boyfriend from interfering.. distract said boyfriend with sexy time. If she can maintain his attention he won't stray anywhere else.
Touya.. trying to hold on to a relationship with Yuki but lacking the stones to either make a clean break or reconciliate... and he's bought the 'do not interfere with Yuki' arguement.
Misaki... was trying to get into a relationship with Touya? Possibly. Rejected it because it would hurt Yuki. Punished herself by going out with Akira.
Rina... wants to help Yuki/touya... Yayoi without relying on sexy time. And she does have the best of intentions. However may she have subconciously want to rid her own loneliness.
Haruka... her actions at this point are in support of Touya and Yuki. Also befriended Mana. Fairly straight forward at this point.
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Old 2009-03-23, 23:17   Link #1216
Zippicus
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Yayoi is trying to prevent pain that could come in her life that she probably experienced herself, as there are hints of her having been an idol.

Touya wants to be in a relationship with Yuki, but because he feels he is getting in the way of her career now, and that Yayoi prevents him from seeing her, he does not know how to actually make real contact with her. Now backed up into a corner, he is on the path of self-destruction.

Misaki rejected Touya because she knew Touya's feelings were not truly sincere. Touya likes Yuki, and only truly thinks of Misaki as a friend at this time.

Rina has been trying to help Yuki this whole time, and tries to keep Touya out of trouble.
I wasn't really looking for the flimsy justifications the story provided, if they had worked for me in the first place I wouldn't have even said anything to begin with.

Quote:
And by the way, those are not actual examples from the series. Pick out specific events that occurred in the series. It seems you cannot even do that, so why do you expect me to understand your point?
They seemed like examples from the series to me. You seemed to address them above so I couldn't have been too far off
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Old 2009-03-23, 23:54   Link #1217
Reckoner
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Originally Posted by Zippicus View Post
They seemed like examples from the series to me. You seemed to address them above so I couldn't have been too far off
Broad responses merit broad answers...
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Old 2009-03-23, 23:58   Link #1218
relentlessflame
 
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Originally Posted by Zippicus View Post
The characters actions don't match up with their motivations. Almost everything they do is contradictory to their (loosely) supplied goals. Some are less guilty of this than others but it's a little too prevalent throughout the whole series to let it slide.
Well, that is one of the key themes of the show, is it not? How people (sometimes well-intentioned, sometimes not) do irrational things that run totally counter to their stated objectives and mess everything up in the process. This story is basically a study in dysfunctional relationships. The main difference between this show and "real life" is that here they're exaggerating the dichotomy so that the disconnect between goal and action is more apparent. In doing so, they're asking the viewer to decide whether they can rationalize or come to terms with how the character ended up where they're at (are they evil, incompetent, victims of fate, or just messed-up?). I don't think you're necessarily supposed to sympathize with any of the characters, only watch as the chain of bad decisions (and bad timing) continues to drive them further away from their goals (but closer towards their future reality). The challenge of the show is in trying to figure all the characters out (and piece together how their mismatched goals and actions will impact each other).

Which is basically to say, this show is a soap opera -- the characters aren't supposed to be normal or rational, they're supposed to be twisted and messed up so that we can watch their lives unfold with a sort of sick fascination.
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Old 2009-03-24, 00:01   Link #1219
Nosauz
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Which is basically to say, this show is a soap opera -- the characters aren't supposed to be normal or rational, they're supposed to be twisted and messed up so that we can watch their lives unfold with a sort of sick fascination.
Well it atleast offers one thing that no soap opera can really give, a thought out end...
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Old 2009-03-24, 00:31   Link #1220
Reckoner
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Which is basically to say, this show is a soap opera -- the characters aren't supposed to be normal or rational, they're supposed to be twisted and messed up so that we can watch their lives unfold with a sort of sick fascination.
The way you described the show... Well, I can fit that description on so many series... Pretty much most dramas would fit your description. If the characters were not messing up in the first place, there would not be much of a drama for us to see. And fiction in general is usually exaggerated, but hey, with the wild stories always going on in this Earth, anything is plausible.

In my opinion, the key theme of this show is not the idea that people mess up in fufilling their objectives, but rather that people cannot seem to find an understanding between themselves. We have seen this with several characters, where their interests, desires, and actions are often in conflict with each other. For example Misaki spends time with Touya because she likes him, but Touya spends time with her because he is triyng to kill time. When they finally understood each other, the confession episode, the relationship pretty much blew up in their faces.
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