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Old 2009-01-06, 01:07   Link #121
serenade_beta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
serenade, just to let you know, Makoto was considered a scum LOOOONG before anime was even aired.
(・ω・`)
Hmm~, really... A shame...

Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
I think you're just incredibly tolerant of useless annoying male leads.
Heh~ Maybe, I guess...
Rather, I find it hard to get irritated... (thus, I find it unfortunate/odd that people have to get irritated over the actions of these "pathetic" protagonists).
Well, I guess it is best to leave the "good" protagonists to companies like Minori or something, but for Overflow, Makoto is perfectly fine. Rather... Unless we want their next game to feature that guy who created a whole underground railroad system of a family tree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
You remind me of my best friend, who keeps defending Takayuki saying "no, he's just fine! he's really just a nice guy!".
(to which I always return "uh... yeah, well, he's still a total loser. I'd RAPE him till he squeals like a pig, DMC style.")
Yet I can't really say your return is much better than his defense...

Quote:
Originally Posted by meh View Post
It's been a while so I can't be sure of any specific examples(besides kind of hard to discuss this on an all-age forum), but you(the player as Makoto) can make a ton of choices that are simply plain horrible and disgusting by pretty much any standard.
Yes, indeed you can... And probably get a Conclusion of Fresh Blood as your reward...
Good song, those EDs have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meh View Post
For me, it has less to do with being indecisive and more to do with just being useless in general. As in, does he have any redeemable quality to him? If the answer is no, then pretty much no reason to root for the guy.
Aha~, I see...
Though, still, if the characters don't act the way they did, the game wouldn't be what it was. That wouldn't be good... I mean, if Makoto was this ideal prince charming with the will of... some great protagonist, we wouldn't have some of the routes the game had.
Ah well, the heroines are more important and better anyways, in School Days...
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Old 2009-01-06, 01:23   Link #122
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Well all the awkward Makoto references aside...

I was really iffy about watching this series at first, but since I'm down to only two shows to watch I decided I should give it a chance.

... I really liked it. For some reason it sort of sucked me in as possibly being a very good show. Plus for once the main male character isn't a complete idiot like they always are. It's nice to see a guy who is actually suspicious of something that just happened in his vicinity, rather than saying, "Hmm... Was that [Insert name here]? Where was he off to in such a hurry? Eh, oh well." I was happy to see that someone finally produced a main character for a romance anime that DOESN'T deserve to be clocked in the face. Even his best friend isn't a complete idiot. I didn't mind Yuki either, she was actually pretty cute, and something about her is just very easy to like. Rina, as well, seems to be a very nice character.

In terms of the episode, it was pretty slow, but I sort of expect that with all first episodes. Personally, I think it's a sort of badge of honor if a very slow first episode can suck a person in. =D I'll have to watch more and find out.

Besides... Nothing better to watch.
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Old 2009-01-06, 02:43   Link #123
kujoe
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Here's the ironic part. I think a (the?) reason these male leads are so hated is because their stories focus, in part, on infidelity and the inability of the protagonist to be a sort of "one-girl-guy". They're considered worthless leads because they're so wishy-washy and spineless. And yet, when you take an eroge on a whole, you simply replay the game with mutliple alternate portrayals of the protagonist's decisions and romantic interests. So, the protagonist in the story is to be faithful, loyal, and decisive in every path, and yet the player gets to experience it every which way. When the protagonist is a "player", it's bad, but when the player is a "player", that's normal, because that's part of the game.

New initiative. I call it "Players against Promiscuity". When you buy an eroge, after a certain amount of time playing the common story, you must choose one, and only one, heroine for the protagonist to pursue a relationship with. One you've made this choice, you cannot unlock any of the other heroine paths. You can complete this path to the end, and then it's Game Over, with no ability to unlock any of the other paths. Any takers?

Oh snap. I know what this is starting to remind me of. Real life!

(This ironic moment brought to you by the Eroge Players Association, reminding you to enjoy life while you still can.)
Well said.

From am experiential point of view, it's indeed very ironic and in a way hypocritical to be calling out on indecisive eroge leads, that in the end allow you to play the game in multiple ways by constantly giving you the option to alter your decision each time.

It's funny when you see it this way. In a game, we are literally the characters themselves. In an anime, we view ourselves as them. In other words, we unconsciously posit ourselves as these characters, and we judge them based on how we would've done things in their situation. In a way, this annoying male character has become me, and this guy shall rot in hell for making a choice I wouldn't have made.

All in all, people just like to see a good story. In an eroge, while you have to act "indecisively" yourself in order to get everything for yourself (an ironic twist), in the end it's all about having a good story that you can agree with. In anime, we have no control, so the frustration is there but I think the end goal is still the same. This time, as a viewer.
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Old 2009-01-06, 04:18   Link #124
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I wasn't particually impressed by the first episode, but it did lay out some interesting potential drama and the comments about this being a bloodless School day have me a bit intrigued. I'll follow it for a couple of episodes at least.
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Old 2009-01-06, 04:59   Link #125
Julius Firefocht
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http://nk-ds.org/2009/01/white-album-episode-1-review/

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Old 2009-01-06, 05:49   Link #126
Mentar
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Originally Posted by serenade_beta View Post
It's definitely not that. From the comments I read in a JP site, there were also plenty of people having trouble figuring out what the story wanted to do. (Other compliments included insults towards Hirano and the protagonist, AKA positive Makoto)
Okay, but which troubles did YOU have? Why did YOU think that the story "didn't know where it wanted to go"? Just trying to understand what it was, "others had it too" doesn't help me there ^_^;

I mean, there were already lots of pretty good summaries going on. I particularly liked relentlessflame's hint about the use of "time" throughout the episode, which eluded me the first time I watched the episode. Is it the "implicit" storytelling?

The more I think about it, maybe it is exactly the fact that I had to use my brain instead of having a secondary character spoonfeed information to me, which has become so prevalent nowadays. Like extracting the information that Akira has had a crush on Misaki without confessing for 5 years - something Touya is annoyed about - out of a single line, instead of having token friend B spell it out for us. Stuff like that. I didn't wince and bit back a "no shit, Sherlock" during ep1, something which has become exceptionally rare.

Finally, I like that the target audience is older than average. The characters are older too, which lends to a different kind of problem compared to the highschool trivialities we're treated to by default.

In summary, nothing earthshattering YET, but I definitely like the way they create the somber, wistful Atmosphere, and I'm looking forward to the storm which is undoubtedly rising on the horizon ^_^
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Old 2009-01-06, 05:56   Link #127
holyman282
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I personally really liked ep 1, the whole situation of them being in university gives the stortelling and the romance a more mature perspective, not to mention the fact that the main character has already started out in a relationship.

I really find the whole idea that what Touya sees on tv could be recorded several days ago and really twists the way audiences view time in this anime. I believe that it could play a major part in the storytelling as the first ep really placed emphasis on the fact that in show business, most of the tv programs aren't recorded live.
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Old 2009-01-06, 06:15   Link #128
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Also liked the first episode, it did move a bit slow but it didn't bother me but some of the directing shots/angles did irck me a bit. The only music that sounded out of place was when what's her name was cutting and paiting her clothes for a sec there I thought she was being bullied again by the other girl's there.

This is supposely to be a love triangle with the other idol being involve right? Wonder how she will get involve with the guy and also be any different relationship-wise considering she herself is an idol like he's girlfriend is. Maybe since she's already experience the whole idol life she may be willing to retire and settle down something that he's girlfriend on the other hand isn't willing to do since she's only just gotten the taste of the idol life.
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Old 2009-01-06, 07:25   Link #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Well, actually, I thought it was at least a bit interesting in the sense that the group of girls were being very indirect in their revenge. Rather than ruin Rina's dress, they ruined Yuki's dress as a way of getting back at Rina without raising overt suspicions. In other words, Yuki wasn't being bullied, she was being used. The whole "premonition of something bad due to over-politeness" was well-done too. Sneaky little buggers... So yeah, not original, but I thought it wasn't bad either, especially combined with the timeline tricks.
That's true but I also feel a bit of jealousy in their actions, because Yuki is the favourite one. Maybe they're envious of both of them, a rather strange situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
Well, except for the fac that... this isn't new.
The original game was released when you were 8 years old, man.
I understand your point of view, and you're right; still, I can't help but think that this is something I've already seen, though, as relentlessflame made clear, it is a little different in this case.


Anyway, what did you think of the colours they used in this first episode? In my opinion they gave an idea of a melancholic and heartwarming atmosphere at the same time, which also had some True Tears vibes.
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Old 2009-01-06, 07:27   Link #130
SageGaiGar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Here's the ironic part. I think a (the?) reason these male leads are so hated is because their stories focus, in part, on infidelity and the inability of the protagonist to be a sort of "one-girl-guy". They're considered worthless leads because they're so wishy-washy and spineless. And yet, when you take an eroge on a whole, you simply replay the game with mutliple alternate portrayals of the protagonist's decisions and romantic interests. So, the protagonist in the story is to be faithful, loyal, and decisive in every path, and yet the player gets to experience it every which way. When the protagonist is a "player", it's bad, but when the player is a "player", that's normal, because that's part of the game.

New initiative. I call it "Players against Promiscuity". When you buy an eroge, after a certain amount of time playing the common story, you must choose one, and only one, heroine for the protagonist to pursue a relationship with. One you've made this choice, you cannot unlock any of the other heroine paths. You can complete this path to the end, and then it's Game Over, with no ability to unlock any of the other paths. Any takers?

Oh snap. I know what this is starting to remind me of. Real life!

(This ironic moment brought to you by the Eroge Players Association, reminding you to enjoy life while you still can.)
Hahaha, this of course flying in the face of all the completionists who *have* to try and get as much as possible into a single session.
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Old 2009-01-06, 07:48   Link #131
aohige
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Here's the ironic part. I think a (the?) reason these male leads are so hated is because their stories focus, in part, on infidelity and the inability of the protagonist to be a sort of "one-girl-guy". They're considered worthless leads because they're so wishy-washy and spineless. And yet, when you take an eroge on a whole, you simply replay the game with mutliple alternate portrayals of the protagonist's decisions and romantic interests. So, the protagonist in the story is to be faithful, loyal, and decisive in every path, and yet the player gets to experience it every which way. When the protagonist is a "player", it's bad, but when the player is a "player", that's normal, because that's part of the game.

New initiative. I call it "Players against Promiscuity". When you buy an eroge, after a certain amount of time playing the common story, you must choose one, and only one, heroine for the protagonist to pursue a relationship with. One you've made this choice, you cannot unlock any of the other heroine paths. You can complete this path to the end, and then it's Game Over, with no ability to unlock any of the other paths. Any takers?

Oh snap. I know what this is starting to remind me of. Real life!

(This ironic moment brought to you by the Eroge Players Association, reminding you to enjoy life while you still can.)
Not really. Do you have any idea how many eroge are out there?
There are tons of male leads that either:
1: has to choose a girl for that "route"
2: builds a harem and doesn't really stick with one
3: can't make up their mind, and the girl chooses for him

There are literally HUNDREDS of indecisive leads, yet they don't make it on the list.
That list is composed of the most annoying, worthless or useless morons.
Even Pure Mail's main lead doesn't make that list, and that dude's a PSYCHO!
(But psychos are interesting. Not "OMG I WANNA TEAR MY HEAD OFF" annoying, like the leads on the list)

The problem isn't as "generic" as you're stating to be. If that was the case, 50% of the leads would make it on the list, and the list would be rediculously long.
Yet in truth, the list is only about a dozen characters long. You see, those characters are mentioned for a reason.
They are the cream of the crop (or bottom of the barrel).
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Old 2009-01-06, 07:52   Link #132
SuperKnuckles
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Male leads aren't perfect to begin with for a reason. If they were, WHERE would the drama be? I mean, we always know girls are in for major trouble in various ways in dramas like these. Just add in extra flavoring with the guys being a bit insecure and 'useless' to begin with and work up from there. It's a pretty standardized thing now. But you can see why they started doing it if you look at it objectively.
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Old 2009-01-06, 07:52   Link #133
Matrim
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Not bad at all, IMO. Nice atmosphere, more subtlety than typical for he genre and hints of character's depth. I skipped a few seconds in the beginning and as a result I thought the dream in the begginning was not a dream but a reality and I kept waiting for the "flashbacks to end" and the break-up to happen.
Funny how Hirano Aya again sounds to me as if she is overacting when she is voicing an idol, despite, you know being a sort of idol herself.

As for the male lead dispute, frankly, I would watch a complete bastard any day, if only to avoid the totallly lacking in personality, random nice and shy main character who is prevalent in the romance genre. Even if said bastard is also a two dimensional moron, he will at least create some drama by his own actions and not wait for everything to just happen to him. And as mentioned above, if everybody is perfect, you won't have much drama or love polygons, would you?
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Old 2009-01-06, 08:08   Link #134
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Interesting first episode i like the animation and more importantly i loved the dialog and interactions between the characters. The dialog was smooth and robust with funny catch phrases and sarcastic humor. The interaction between the characters didn't feel rushed or forced they the result for me was a natural feeling when any one character was chatting it up with another.

It seems we have another show about the ugly side of show business and those who care about those who are in it. Im sure i am rather simplifying things but as time goes more will be reveled and i guess i will get a better sense of where this anime is taking us.

Touya being a University student with his g/f being idol is an interesting situation. I think we can relate to him trying to work to pay his tuition, living expenses while still finding time to study now his g/f has entered the entertainment industry so he doesn't get to see her and worried about them growing apart. The fact that he tapes her shows and watches her on tv either shows he will see her anyway he can even if its on tv or he supports her decision to become an idol. I also find it funny that twice in the episode when he was watching Yuki on tv she pretty much appeared or called.

Well like i said not much to comment on like the gamers here so i will have to bide my time and avoid spoilers at all cost. But since apparently there is a love triangle involved it should prove to interesting or the thread will turn into another useless male protagonist bashing party where everyone gets a shot.

Music was decent so parts felt out of place but over all was not too bad. This is no Skipbeat but it does have potential imo
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Old 2009-01-06, 08:25   Link #135
DragoonKain3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame
New initiative. I call it "Players against Promiscuity". When you buy an eroge, after a certain amount of time playing the common story, you must choose one, and only one, heroine for the protagonist to pursue a relationship with. One you've made this choice, you cannot unlock any of the other heroine paths. You can complete this path to the end, and then it's Game Over, with no ability to unlock any of the other paths. Any takers?
Me! Me! Me!

Seriously speaking though, if there's a childhood friend in a game, be it an RPG or an eroge, I can't for the life of me choose another girl apart from her. RPGs aren't affected as much since romance is just a side thing. For eroges however where romance is the focus, they aren't such a good value for my money for me, since I usually play only one path out of the many available in game. XD

Which reminds me... Yuki is setting off my osana-najimi radar, that's a no brainer. But why is Rina also registering a faint bleep in it as well? And we know next to nothing from her... bah, I think it's getting too sensitive and making me see things I want to see rather than what's actually there.
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Old 2009-01-06, 10:09   Link #136
Mentar
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removed
And you don't call this a spoiler??

For the love of god, read what xris wrote before. Please move spoiler and spoiler discussions to the thread on the GAMES board. I know that once the typical pseudo-discussion begins what happens in THIS path and in THAT path, no spoiler tags will help, information WILL seep through to this thread, and I for once do NOT want to be spoiled. Not by spoilers, not by replies to spoiler summaries or by other means. You already started earlier in this thread with your unsolicited revelation about how far the manager is willing to go.

Polite but urgent request: Please STOP that or move it elsewhere. Is that really too much to ask?

Onegaishimasu! mOm

Last edited by Pellissier; 2009-01-06 at 12:53. Reason: removed quote from deleted post
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Old 2009-01-06, 10:41   Link #137
serenade_beta
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Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Okay, but which troubles did YOU have? Why did YOU think that the story "didn't know where it wanted to go"? Just trying to understand what it was, "others had it too" doesn't help me there ^_^;
Hmm~? Saa...? Because that was the way I felt...? The characters just popped up one at a time and left, protagonist just floundered around through the episode, we get the red-hair bullied... Overall, I guess I was just left with that feeling. Showing me all of these events that barely connect or show a plot for the future episodes, I don't know what they want to do... Or something like that? It's been a few days, so I'm starting to forget...
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Old 2009-01-06, 13:03   Link #138
Pellissier
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Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
For the love of god, read what xris wrote before. Please move spoiler and spoiler discussions to the thread on the GAMES board. I know that once the typical pseudo-discussion begins what happens in THIS path and in THAT path, no spoiler tags will help, information WILL seep through to this thread, and I for once do NOT want to be spoiled. Not by spoilers, not by replies to spoiler summaries or by other means. You already started earlier in this thread with your unsolicited revelation about how far the manager is willing to go.

Polite but urgent request: Please STOP that or move it elsewhere. Is that really too much to ask?
Mentar is right about this one.
Premise: this is an anime only thread. Addendum: if anyone wants to spoil himself about the future events (or hints of future events, doesn't matter how heavy), there's plenty of place on the web for them to do so, we even have a game section here on AnimeSuki. So, there's really no need to pollute the only place here which is supposed to remain safe. The posts of spoilerish nature have been deleted.

Hence, I'm asking to everyone, let's try to keep this thread clean and polished for the eyes of the anime-only viewers, ok ?

Thanks in advance
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Old 2009-01-06, 13:41   Link #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
There are literally HUNDREDS of indecisive leads, yet they don't make it on the list.
That list is composed of the most annoying, worthless or useless morons.
Even Pure Mail's main lead doesn't make that list, and that dude's a PSYCHO!
(But psychos are interesting. Not "OMG I WANNA TEAR MY HEAD OFF" annoying, like the leads on the list)
And interesting "other side to the story" which I agree too as well

There is a limit to how much of annoyance you can be and for me only those at the top is even worth to be called an eternal ass (even though there are plenty minor ones, they are nothing compared to the top guns a la Makoto which is a rather small list of extremes).

That said I don't play enough eroges

But hearing about the future prospects of this series...I laugh in a sinister way
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Old 2009-01-06, 14:21   Link #140
kujoe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
There are literally HUNDREDS of indecisive leads, yet they don't make it on the list.
That list is composed of the most annoying, worthless or useless morons.
Even Pure Mail's main lead doesn't make that list, and that dude's a PSYCHO!
(But psychos are interesting. Not "OMG I WANNA TEAR MY HEAD OFF" annoying, like the leads on the list)

The problem isn't as "generic" as you're stating to be. If that was the case, 50% of the leads would make it on the list, and the list would be rediculously long.
Yet in truth, the list is only about a dozen characters long. You see, those characters are mentioned for a reason.
They are the cream of the crop (or bottom of the barrel).
That's because those guys are annoying.

I think relentlessflame is merely trying to deconstruct the notion of annoying, indecisive protagonists by relating it to the kind of mindset that the player he himself has to take in order to experience the game. In other words, you have to be just as "indecisive" and "nice to everyone" in order to play the entire thing. You aren't always given an annoying lead to take control of, but the basic premise is more or the less the same.
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