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Old 2008-10-09, 09:50   Link #221
Skyfall
Lost in my dreams...
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles View Post
Yeah, but people do that all the time. They 'say' it's casual and all, but we all know one thing can lead to the other. It's almost shocking how romantic relationships can develop.

But Mizuki definitely already has shown admiration and a bit of a stranger's interest in Kuze anyway.
And i am fully expecting for one thing to lead to another ... but is that bad ? I mean, there isn't anything wrong with Mizuki having an interest in Kuze, is there ? Their age gap isn't very big either, and i don't see why that should constitute a problem. (besides, if Kuze falls for Mizuki, what are the chances of it not being serious ? )

Quote:
As for the pedophile aspect, Kuze is a bit of an unnerving character I suppose with his condom remark and school uniform stuff not to mention that he's a supposedly known womanizer.
... neither of which has anything to do with pedophilia. (honestly, do people even know what the word actually means and what implications it carries about a person?). As for the rest - Mizuki seems more fond of his collection than he is, and one unconventional remark during a wordplay (which it was in Japanese) does not make him some shady character that needs to be approached with caution. Yes, he is a bit eccentric, but given what we have seen of him, i don't think there is much to worry about. (And if we ever get to it, i am fully expecting Mizuki to be the one taking initiative in pursuing a relationship).

In short: i don't see anything wrong with a potential relationship between the two, age or otherwise. If anything, Kuze's health issues are much more of a subject to worry about.
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Old 2008-10-09, 09:56   Link #222
Vegard Aune
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Join Date: Mar 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keruri View Post
Alright! Time for my take on the lyrics. Please keep in mind that these aren't official. Possible variations are in parenthesis.

Spoiler for Ebuillent Future:

Also, we have another "killer for my armstripe" incident:
Some people initially thought "I wish I could see your disguise" was "I wish I could see your insides". I giggled a little harder than I should have.
Wow, you seriously managed to make sense out of the lyrics? I could only catch like, 2 lines in the entire song... Maybe it's just because I saw the lyrics the first time I heard Euphoric Field, but this song somehow seems even harder to understand.
And I would laugh at that "killer for my armstripe"-incident, (BTW, is that a referrence to something?) but seeing how I thought it sounded like that too, I suppose that would be somewhat dumb.
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Old 2008-10-09, 11:16   Link #223
Kristen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegard Aune View Post
Wow, you seriously managed to make sense out of the lyrics? I could only catch like, 2 lines in the entire song... Maybe it's just because I saw the lyrics the first time I heard Euphoric Field, but this song somehow seems even harder to understand.
And I would laugh at that "killer for my armstripe"-incident, (BTW, is that a referrence to something?) but seeing how I thought it sounded like that too, I suppose that would be somewhat dumb.
If you listen to it close enough, you can hear all the lines. But, there's variations due to the Engrish. So far, the only line I've seen that's been the same in all the guesses is "I wish you could see your insides"
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Old 2008-10-09, 11:46   Link #224
Deathkillz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles View Post
As for the pedophile aspect, Kuze is a bit of an unnerving character I suppose with his condom remark and school uniform stuff not to mention that he's a supposedly known womanizer.
I'm wondering if the condom remark was even a proper translation of what he said or if the fansub group was just having a piss about. The entire line seems to be taken out of context from the way the conversation was going...

But to say it bluntly...if Kuzo does anything to Mizuki, then he is in the wrong. But if Mizuki does something to him, everyone will be clapping and cheering

*cough*
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Old 2008-10-09, 12:06   Link #225
Shinji103
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathkillz View Post
I'm wondering if the condom remark was even a proper translation of what he said or if the fansub group was just having a piss about. The entire line seems to be taken out of context from the way the conversation was going...
If we're talking about the "raw" thing here, that was a wordplay in Japanese. Mizuki was talking about wanting to hear Kuze play his violin live. Hence, "raw," as in unprepared/unchanged/straight. There are a lot of wordplays like this when it comes to Japanese. For instance, the word "ude" in Japanese literally means "arm," but in Japanese they also use the word to say "skill." (since with things like swordsmanship, you display your skills with your arm) So yeah, it was a translation error, although not one that is all that uncommon. Even Media Blasters way back when made the same mistake when translating an episode of Rurouni Kenshin, saying "I hope your arm hasn't gotten rusty" instead of "skills." You just need to learn when to back off on taking the Japanese terminology literally.

If that's not what you're talking about, then I'll have to download that sub and check for it.

Quote:
But to say it bluntly...if Kuzo does anything to Mizuki, then he is in the wrong. But if Mizuki does something to him, everyone will be clapping and cheering

*cough*
Um, why? As Skyfall has pointed out, Mizuki is not a loli by any means, or even underage. Whether he actually is the one to make the first move has yet to be seen, but I don't see how he'd be in the wrong for doing so.

Since we have people with a 13-year+ age gap getting married in real life, I don't see the problem in a relationship with a less-than-10-year age gap. Mizuki is fair game.


EDIT: Okay, just saw the subbed episode finally, and I see what Deathkillz was talking about. But I have serious doubts about the accuracy of that. It sounds like he's talking about that at "first glance," but I'm more inclined to think he was talking about something else, given the context.
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Old 2008-10-09, 16:11   Link #226
Keruri
Like a falling star
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: A snowy town from 7 years ago....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
If we're talking about the "raw" thing here, that was a wordplay in Japanese. Mizuki was talking about wanting to hear Kuze play his violin live. Hence, "raw," as in unprepared/unchanged/straight. There are a lot of wordplays like this when it comes to Japanese.
I'm almost positive that this is correct. Nabi is often used when referring to live music.
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Old 2008-10-09, 17:25   Link #227
Traece
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Join Date: Jun 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keruri View Post
I'm almost positive that this is correct. Nabi is often used when referring to live music.
But knowing Kuze... I wouldn't be surprised if the translation error wasn't actually supposed to be taken as something perverted.

Oh, and because somebody mentioned that I have repeatedly (once, realistically speaking) misused the word pedophile (even though every ONE time I was using it to joke about Kuze), I'm going to take my time to inform you all how much of a pedophile Kuze is!

Now that that's been done... (See what I mean? Have common sense people. Of course Kuze isn't a pedophile. Brains built Gundams, they should be able to comprehend obvious jokes. When all else fails, I use the smiley alot)

Just thought I should clear up any understandings.
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Old 2008-10-09, 17:33   Link #228
Clarste
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The way the conversation went, as far as I could tell, is this:

Mizuki: Aw... I was looking forward to a raw (live) performance. Raw would've been nice... Raw.

Kuze: Yeah, I prefer raw too. Better than a rubber (slang for condom, both in Japanese and English).

Mizuki: Huh?

So he was twisting it into an innuendo that she didn't get, although he still could've meant it as a metaphor at the same time.
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Old 2008-10-09, 17:53   Link #229
Kaoru Chujo
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Join Date: Jul 2004
I believe Clarste is right about the pun.

And if Mizuki is actually 18, then she can do whatever she wants to with Kuze, and I won't think the worse of either of them. His conversation earlier with Yuu makes me think a bit less of him, to be honest, but it also suggests the possibility of a triangle arising.

Renji's mother was a bit irresponsibly romantic in ef memories, and she seems the same way here. But I don't see her as doing anything wrong when she suggests Mizuki and Kuze spend time together. I think she may be attracted to Kuze herself, however, but not thinking of doing anything about it, or that anything would come of it if she tried.
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Old 2008-10-09, 18:18   Link #230
Keruri
Like a falling star
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: A snowy town from 7 years ago....
Age: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
So he was twisting it into an innuendo that she didn't get, although he still could've meant it as a metaphor at the same time.
This is what I was getting at. They actually used the same joke in the Gravitation OVA.

As far as the lyrics go.... it actually took me a while to understand them. I was one of the first ones to post them on 2ch, though a lot of people still swear by "I wish I could see your insides".

Also, for those wondering what I mean about the "killer for my armstripe" incident, I'm referencing the line from Euphoric Field: "I have been the killer for my armstripe" = "I have been looking for my own style".
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Old 2008-10-09, 19:17   Link #231
sikvod00
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Homestead, FL
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
So he was twisting it into an innuendo that she didn't get, although he still could've meant it as a metaphor at the same time.
What makes this scene a little uneasy wasn't necessarily the play on words, but how Kuze was depicted saying them. They don't show his eyes when he makes the comments, and instead replace them with shadows. Normally when they do this in anime that I've seen, it's usually to reveal the character's true nature, or to make the scene more serious and dark.

In this case I think Kuze was less than happy at Mizuki's request and wanted to dismiss it by making a vulgar remark that he knew would go over her head.
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Old 2008-10-09, 21:26   Link #232
Kresnik
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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Age: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by guuchan View Post
Earlier I chatted with someone IRC and that person told me he didn't like Nagi being so bold. I believe there're other people thinking the same thing, so I need to do Nagi justice here.

Spoiler for it kinds of spoil the story a little:
Just another pointer Nagi will never get her justice, here.. >_>

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles View Post
Yuu and Yuuko? Maybe they were blood related siblings or maybe their parents had different dads or moms?

Also, I don't really think Yuu has lost much faith necessarily. It seemed like he was a cold bastard ever since childhood.
I won't say much, but Yuu has a good reason to be cold (at least good reason enough for himself).

As for Kuze x Mizuki, even until now, I get their relationship is forced in the story and unjustifiable. As for why:
Spoiler for Kuze x Mizuki = No Good:
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Old 2008-10-10, 00:05   Link #233
Dagger
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hyogo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kresnik View Post
As for Kuze x Mizuki, even until now, I get their relationship is forced in the story and unjustifiable. As for why...
lol, they were by far my favorite couple in both games. Each to his own, I guess.
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Old 2008-10-10, 00:10   Link #234
cheesie
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Join Date: May 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magus IX View Post
lol, they were by far my favorite couple in both games. Each to his own, I guess.
This is the pairing that I intend to keep track of (though I heard Yuu x Yuuko is a worthy contender as one of the greatest stories hailed in the game.) We'll see how it goes.

And let's keep EF spoilers to a minimum, as I have a tendency to check them against my better judgment.
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Old 2008-10-10, 00:53   Link #235
qtipbrit
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: San Diego
Caught the first episode a tad late, and as expected, it doesn't disappoint.
Well, aside from again shrinking the breast size of one of our heroines.
Melodies will surely follow the theme of memories more than Memories did (irony~), especially with the Yuuko and Mizuki dynamic that'll be revealed sometime soon.
I loved Kuze's masks, though... interesting that he claims to have cleared his apartment, leaving only his masks, school uniforms costumes, and his (past) music. (With of course a healthy supply of alcohol.)
Glad to see SHAFT made Nagi more attractive for her anime counterpart, not to mention granting her Itou voice.
I wanted a bit more Yuuko, but it's fine given that it adequately established the basis of their "relationship" and gave it an air of mystery.

Looking forward to the next episode, and until then, I'll be in
Spoiler for Despair!:
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Old 2008-10-10, 05:32   Link #236
Sorrow-K
Somehow I found out
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 31
Ep 1

It was an episode that wasn't fast-paced in and of itself but it laid the groundwork for an exploration of some very elaborate themes and concepts, which is something that the first season did so amazingly well. Already it's clear that there's going to be so many layers and subplots to the story that are going to disperse and reconnect in all manner of different ways throughout the course of the series until they all tie up right at the very end of the last episode.

Again we have a show that's high on artistry: the visuals and cinematography are artistically inclined and the characters are also artistically inclined. I think ef in general gets a big boost from the fact that a lot of its characters are eccentric artists (is it redundant to put those two words together?) But I love how aware these characters are on the philosophy of living and the discussions that come out of it (again the dialogue in this show is of a level rarely seen in anime, which too often falls into some rather Neanderthalic dialogue). Particularly the discussion about "masks" really struck a cord with me. It's probably not a new concept to anime, looking back. Certainly Code Geass explored it very recently, but I'd say Kare Kano did an even more insightful exploration of it many years ago. But it is such a fascinating, almost innate characteristic of humans as social creatures. I'm willing to bet the idea will come back, since it seems to be an important aspect of Kuze's character, but I wonder if the series will look at the idea from this point of view. That seems to be part of what Kuze was getting at with that scene.

One of the things that threw me: Australia? WTF? Have they been in Australia all along? Now I live in Australia, so I know what it's like and nothing about the first season really struck me as "Australian". Obviously I haven't seen every part of the country (so many churches could mean they're in Adelaide which is a city I've never been to, though if I were to gander a guess, I'd say they're in Melbourne), but it does raise an obvious question: exactly where are they? Anyone want to speculate (or perhaps spoil if that information has been revealed in the source material).
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Old 2008-10-10, 05:37   Link #237
Shiroth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorrow-K View Post
One of the things that threw me: Australia? WTF? Have they been in Australia all along?
I just seen that as Renji trying to confuse her just as she's woken up, though didn't work at all. Of course there could be more of a meaning behind it, though we'll have to ask game players.
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Old 2008-10-10, 05:46   Link #238
Dagger
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Are game players allowed to reply, though? (With spoilers, I mean.)
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Old 2008-10-10, 05:47   Link #239
Sorrow-K
Somehow I found out
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
I just seen that as Renji trying to confuse her just as she's woken up, though didn't work at all. Of course there could be more of a meaning behind it, though we'll have to ask game players.
Well, having seen some of the discussion from game players on various places of the internet, the indication was that it wasn't a joke. It's... weird.

I'm trying to think back on the first season, though, and now that I think about it the setting is sufficiently featureless that they could acceptably be in any city (or town). We'll see. I'm very interested in seeing what game players have to say. I think it's about the first time Australia has actually been the setting of an anime... most of the time, it's either mentioned as a convenient place to shift people (Code Geass) or passed by briefly (FMP:TSR, RahXephon).
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Originally Posted by Magus IX View Post
Are game players allowed to reply, though? (With spoilers, I mean.)
What does the spoiler policy say? If it goes against spoiler policy, do spoiler tags work in Profile Messages? 'Cos game players can put a spoiler tagged answer in my profile if they wish, and that way everyone can still see (by making their way to my profile).
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Old 2008-10-10, 05:55   Link #240
Eczema
Ah! Pretty Shining Love!
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorrow-K View Post
One of the things that threw me: Australia? WTF? Have they been in Australia all along? Now I live in Australia, so I know what it's like and nothing about the first season really struck me as "Australian". Obviously I haven't seen every part of the country (so many churches could mean they're in Adelaide which is a city I've never been to, though if I were to gander a guess, I'd say they're in Melbourne), but it does raise an obvious question: exactly where are they? Anyone want to speculate (or perhaps spoil if that information has been revealed in the source material).
LOL. I doubt they're in Australia. And I live in Melbourne and it's definitely not Melbourne. The architecture of the housing is completely different. We have front lawns here. Although the beachfront houses are typical of Australian residences since all the major cities are located along the coast.

However, Kuze said in a flashback scene "before I leave Japan." So it's possible that they are in Australia at the present time I guess. Also, the Victorian style houses seen in the first ep also exist with a significant commonality in central Melbourne.

But anyway, I just took it as Renji making a joke, and that Mizuki was too dense to catch him for it. But now your post has caused me to have doubts. Renji doesn't seem to be the sort of guy to tease a girl like that. Adelaide is the City of Churches so it's a definite possibility that they live there. I haven't been there in ages so I can't really comment if the town in ef is like Adelaide. I guess only the game players can clear this up.
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