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Old 2013-04-06, 22:37   Link #24801
Rovert10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyingbreath View Post
You can't reflect something that has no mass though because it has no vectors. The only thing which you might be able to argue is that he can manipulate the flow of chemicals in his brain so they don't produce any thoughts he doesn't want to have but that's just ridiculous.
Explain what kind of linkage can you produce within science without having to actually travel to the target to link up. Last time I checked even radio waves need a travel distance and time.

Also isn't there another thread for this discussion?
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Old 2013-04-07, 00:12   Link #24802
Miraluka
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Originally Posted by leukrota View Post
Off-topic: I never thought I would see Sumeragi banned, what did she do?
*grins*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Requiem-x View Post
Misaki controlling Tsuchimikado would mean she knows about magic, since it's stated he tells Touma another magician is on the loose... but I guess you all know that by now, right? I guess we're still going with the theme of Touma being manipulated into doing stuff, only now he learned to just roll with it. I'm expecting something like this to happen:

"Sorry, I was just using you all along, tee-hee (imagine there's a star here)"
"So be it. Now let me save you2
"...kyun"

What I definetly do NOT want to happen is for Touma to not even realize he's been manipulated, that would be stupid after all the crap he's gone through lately.
Oh, Hakase from MEMBER did know about magicians existence.
a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
I thought everything has mass? If not, Accelerator can manipulate energy already.
And at a microscopic level enough to reboot a human brain.
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Old 2013-04-07, 03:10   Link #24803
desrtsku
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyingbreath View Post
Nope. What vectors are there? Misaka only reflects because she has a constant electromagnetic field (which only a level five electromaster can produce) surrounding her which Accelerator doesn't have. There is no reason he would be able to block.
Telepath send freaking signals to the people they control ... send signals ... send signals ... send ... send ... send ...

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Originally Posted by Dyingbreath View Post
Vector=force=something with mass.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyingbreath View Post
You can't reflect something that has no mass though because it has no vectors. The only thing which you might be able to argue is that he can manipulate the flow of chemicals in his brain so they don't produce any thoughts he doesn't want to have but that's just ridiculous.
*facepalm*
Ok, well we're not pro physicians here but admitting you are right, then how does light move and can be reflected by mirrors? How does heat conduction work? ... heat has a mass? Light has a mass? energy has a mass?[/Frodo Mode]
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Old 2013-04-07, 03:19   Link #24804
Chaos2Frozen
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Also, even the lower leveled sister clones have an electromagnetic field, we know that because animals don't like them (It obviously isn't strong enough, but it's not like they completely didn't have one)



I'll admit that physics isn't Kamachi's strongest suit, he's better at technology and I think he knows it himself. So sometimes we have to adapt and take certain things at face value instead of pulling in real world science and terminology. Dark Matter isn't really dark matter, and Vector is pretty much anything that can have direction and movement.

More importantly looking at it from Kamachi's perspective; there's no way he's not going to come up with a reason to 'protect' Accelerator from Misaki when he went out of his way to do so for teleportation.

Last edited by Chaos2Frozen; 2013-04-07 at 03:53.
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Old 2013-04-07, 03:45   Link #24805
desrtsku
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
More importantly looking at it from his perspective, there's no way he's not going to come up with a reason to 'protect' Accelerator from Misaki when he went out of his way to do so for teleportation.
And from certain forms of magic
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Old 2013-04-07, 12:51   Link #24806
leukrota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
and Vector is pretty much anything that can have direction and movement.
Kamachi is not reinventing the wheel there, that's how scientists view it too. A vector is a mathematical concept used to model/describe movement in the real world, it's that simple.

EDIT: That's not to say that a vector cannot be used to model something else, but that would be in addition to this use, not instead of.

2nd EDIT: Hmmm... this gives me an idea about a level 6 Accelerator, if he becomes able to manipulate quantum state vectors he would definitely have gotten a reality morphing ability...

Last edited by leukrota; 2013-04-07 at 13:04.
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Old 2013-04-07, 13:17   Link #24807
Dyingbreath
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Originally Posted by desrtsku View Post
Ok, well we're not pro physicians here but admitting you are right, then how does light move and can be reflected by mirrors? How does heat conduction work? ... heat has a mass? Light has a mass? energy has a mass?[/Frodo Mode]
Umm... no. heat has no mass, heat isnt' even a thing really. It's simply the molecules moving faster. Photons do have mass but Accelerator doesn't auto-reflect anything other than UV so...
Energy and mass are linked according to E=mC^2, but that just means that they can be interchanged, not that they are the same.
If he can control energy then the author doesn't have a good grasp of physics.
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Old 2013-04-07, 13:53   Link #24808
leukrota
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Originally Posted by Dyingbreath View Post
Umm... no. heat has no mass, heat isnt' even a thing really. It's simply the molecules moving faster. Photons do have mass but Accelerator doesn't auto-reflect anything other than UV so...
Energy and mass are linked according to E=mC^2, but that just means that they can be interchanged, not that they are the same.
If he can control energy then the author doesn't have a good grasp of physics.
Isn't UV light? I recall his conversation with Kakine where they discuss what he auto-reflects. He can reflect light but didn't include other than UV rays in the auto-reflect for obvious reasons (he would be blind), just as he doesn't repel air in order to breathe. It's out of choice (if you can call that a choice), not out of ability.

Anyway, I don't see how light wouldn't have a vector. As I said before, I'm not a physics expert, but I know enough to say that a vector needs no mass.

As a side note, heat itself may be pure energy, but it's transferred through photons.
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Old 2013-04-07, 13:57   Link #24809
desrtsku
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leukrota View Post
Kamachi is not reinventing the wheel there, that's how scientists view it too. A vector is a mathematical concept used to model/describe movement in the real world, it's that simple.

EDIT: That's not to say that a vector cannot be used to model something else, but that would be in addition to this use, not instead of.
I'll even add something for those who are interested, vectors and matrices find their roots in Mathematics. And Mathematics isn't a tool that was created only to support calculation for physics, thus they can be used to express ANY kind of activity as long as your mind can understand it functioning that way. For example, you can express the production cost of a company (and many other factors including : the price, the anticipated income, etc ...) with matrices to help for the calculation of the optimum of production that should be done during a certain period.

The point is, Accelerator's ability is like what he said, he can "replicate" any phenomenon as long as he has the info he needs (which he expresses in the form of equations of vectors and matrices) and the tools to do it (a physical object which contains those vectors, that he needs to physically touch). Basically, he could even control magical stuffs with his ability if he were just able to comprehend and express their laws in the form of mathematical vectors/matrices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyingbreath View Post
Umm... no. heat has no mass, heat isnt' even a thing really. It's simply the molecules moving faster.
But still energy nonetheless, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyingbreath View Post
Photons do have mass but Accelerator doesn't auto-reflect anything other than UV so...
> implying UV and lights are completely disconnected from each other
> implying Accel can't filtrate what he can auto-reflect at will

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Originally Posted by Dyingbreath View Post
Energy and mass are linked according to E=mC^2, but that just means that they can be interchanged, not that they are the same.
Everyone knows that.
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Originally Posted by Dyingbreath View Post
If he can control energy then the author doesn't have a good grasp of physics.
Accelerator doesn't "control energy", he controls the energy flux ... it's just the subtle difference between being able to change the ambient temperature at will and prevent heat from assaulting his body. And the energy flux has vectors. So where's the problem? -_-
And for what we know, Kamachi's problem with physics isn't a mystery from no one, because there are.
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Old 2013-04-07, 15:27   Link #24810
Dyingbreath
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Originally Posted by desrtsku View Post
I'll even add something for those who are interested, vectors and matrices find their roots in Mathematics. And Mathematics isn't a tool that was created only to support calculation for physics, thus they can be used to express ANY kind of activity as long as your mind can understand it functioning that way. For example, you can express the production cost of a company (and many other factors including : the price, the anticipated income, etc ...) with matrices to help for the calculation of the optimum of production that should be done during a certain period.

The point is, Accelerator's ability is like what he said, he can "replicate" any phenomenon as long as he has the info he needs (which he expresses in the form of equations of vectors and matrices) and the tools to do it (a physical object which contains those vectors, that he needs to physically touch). Basically, he could even control magical stuffs with his ability if he were just able to comprehend and express their laws in the form of mathematical vectors/matrices.


But still energy nonetheless, right?

> implying UV and lights are completely disconnected from each other
> implying Accel can't filtrate what he can auto-reflect at will


Everyone knows that.

Accelerator doesn't "control energy", he controls the energy flux ... it's just the subtle difference between being able to change the ambient temperature at will and prevent heat from assaulting his body. And the energy flux has vectors. So where's the problem? -_-
And for what we know, Kamachi's problem with physics isn't a mystery from no one, because there are.
So basically he can do anything... right... Kamachi's problem isn't with science it is with making people with No-Sell's, abilities that can ignore anyone's powers and just block them because... because.
Well the point is that the mechanism for mind control isn't known so it could still affect Accelerator, especially since he isn't auto-reflecting all the time like before.
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Old 2013-04-07, 15:31   Link #24811
Rovert10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyingbreath View Post
Umm... no. heat has no mass, heat isnt' even a thing really. It's simply the molecules moving faster. Photons do have mass but Accelerator doesn't auto-reflect anything other than UV so...
Energy and mass are linked according to E=mC^2, but that just means that they can be interchanged, not that they are the same.
If he can control energy then the author doesn't have a good grasp of physics.
What... he only reflects UV because that's what he chooses to do. He isn't going to reflect the visible spectrum in order to just blind himself.

UV still falls under the Electromagnetic Wave category anyways.

Also heat is not molecules shaking in a space. Heat = Energy Transfer.
Idk which physics book you have that heat is just the movement of molecules.

In order to transfer you must have a movement of energy. In order to have a movement of energy, you must have a vector in which that energy moves along. Simple enough.

A Vector is a Magnitude (speed/force/whatever) + Direction.


Btw this is going off on a tangent about Physics made for another thread.
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Old 2013-04-07, 15:39   Link #24812
Dyingbreath
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Originally Posted by Rovert10 View Post
What... he only reflects UV because that's what he chooses to do. He isn't going to reflect the visible spectrum in order to just blind himself.

UV still falls under the Electromagnetic Wave category anyways.

Also heat is not molecules shaking in a space. Heat = Energy Transfer.
Idk which physics book you have that heat is just the movement of molecules.

In order to transfer you must have a movement of energy. In order to have a movement of energy, you must have a vector in which that energy moves along. Simple enough.

A Vector is a Magnitude (speed/force/whatever) + Direction.
I know that UV is EM and I'm not saying he couldn't reflect light, I'm saying he doesn't.
I know what a vector is in mathematics but you are using it in a physics sense where vectors are used in force calculation only, and force needs mass.
Energy transfer is movement of heat or other energy through collisions of molecules, heat itself is the speed of the molecules of a substance as they move. All physics books say that. and I'm not saying he can't redirect heat. He could since heat is linked to substance. You can't have a hot vacuum after all.
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Old 2013-04-07, 16:00   Link #24813
tsunade666
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To put it simply anything that has movement that Accelerator knew can be redirected.
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Old 2013-04-07, 16:24   Link #24814
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
To put it simply anything that has movement that Accelerator knew can be redirected.
That's what we all have been saying.
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Old 2013-04-07, 16:43   Link #24815
Dyingbreath
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What about something without movement. Say a tree was in his way while he was moving at a high speed. I mean technically it has movement but his reflect doesn't auto-reflect the gound or anything he tries to touch so I'm not sure.
Physics-wise it's kind of a toss up between Newton's 3rd law which says he probably would and the elastic/inelastic collision deal which says that it would probably still hurt him.
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Old 2013-04-07, 16:48   Link #24816
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyingbreath View Post
What about something without movement. Say a tree was in his way while he was moving at a high speed. I mean technically it has movement but his reflect doesn't auto-reflect the gound or anything he tries to touch so I'm not sure.
Physics-wise it's kind of a toss up between Newton's 3rd law which says he probably would and the elastic/inelastic collision deal which says that it would probably still hurt him.

I'm certain he'll be fine.

He threw a building once (in the Anime), pretty sure that wasn't moving.
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Old 2013-04-07, 18:18   Link #24817
Miraluka
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The gravity works on a everything so even if not moving always there will be force on them.
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Old 2013-04-07, 18:23   Link #24818
Welsh_Dragon
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Any news on the cover art? The anticipation is killing me.
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Old 2013-04-07, 18:38   Link #24819
Chaos2Frozen
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Two more days I guess.... assuming it isn't delayed like the last time.

Heh, remember how people freaked out that they use the cover for NT4 for NT5 god this fandom loves to freak out.
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Old 2013-04-07, 20:10   Link #24820
Miraluka
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Two more days I guess.... assuming it isn't delayed like the last time.

Heh, remember how people freaked out that they use the cover for NT4 for NT5 god this fandom loves to freak out.
Can't blame them when NT03 sold more just because of the cover .


And don't forget someone here(Acer) lost his anal virginity in sacrifice!!!
.
.
.

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