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Old 2010-04-29, 19:51   Link #2941
Miraluka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jin jin5000 View Post
It isnt shown but they keep on referring to equal or equates to god or some crap
Tell me them to light you please.
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Old 2010-04-29, 20:22   Link #2942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jin jin5000 View Post
It isn't shown but they keep on referring to equal or equates to god or some crap
May be God in To Aru verse modeled from some real Religion God whose have rival and can be killed or must created/born to achieve/ do something

Except in some religion out side-this wall-world of mine (which thinking that GOD is "the Almighty One without anything resembles it"), all real world religion "GOD" have some earthly trait (like have parents, need some service/offerings/avatar, must eat, have power limiter, have some certain items that the follower called 'holy', must ascend to do something, it's power can be borrowed,etc) which I find amusing

okay..I'll ask my friend about what Japanese people thinking about "GOD" to get some gist about To Aru verse GOD

I just hope he didn't say: "my religion is JEDI"



edited:
I hope no one feel offended because this post, you know...something in Human society called 'Faith' or 'Fanatism' can make simple word become "rash" sometimes ehehehe
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Old 2010-04-29, 20:52   Link #2943
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After all the exposition we've been getting so far I'm not surprised if Touma turns out to be an incarnation of God in ToaruVerse. But it'll be not quite good of a twist...
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Old 2010-04-29, 20:55   Link #2944
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jin jin5000 View Post
It isnt shown but they keep on referring to equal or equates to god or some crap
accelerator, who is said to wield a power similar to god's. Kakine's dark matter powers is said to have properties of heaven and fiamma, whose holds the power of the archangel michael. If anything, nuclear weapons are being down played in this story. But the power of an angel is nothing to laugh at and they made it clear. Perhaps you have a specific scene?
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Old 2010-04-30, 02:44   Link #2945
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Playing the devil's advocate again, I'd say only destroying half a planet with a finger-move is rather pathetic considering how much effort it would then take just to destroy a universe.

But let's practice some agnosticism (correct word?) here; So far we see comparisons and angels possessing persons; we haven't actually seen real angels bashing humanity in the flesh, or even the Big Guy himself appearing. Even the idea that Touma can cancel God is itself disputable. After all, a truly omnipotent being can create the Imagine Breaker, and not be destroyed by it. Sounds like an oxymoron? Yes, but only because of our limited understanding of matters at a far higher existence than our own.

I apply this to canon too; if we cannot truly compare to God, neither can they; hence all those statements that compare with divinity have to be taken with black-hole-masses of salt to even come close (which isnt since the crux of the matter weighs in in infinities ).
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Old 2010-04-30, 09:32   Link #2946
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Don't you guys think that it was ridiculous for the writer to throw off the power balance in the Indexverse simply by introducing the whole God/Heaven/Angel things? And what's up with the extremely huge gap between another Lv5 Esper? I am looking at you, Mr.Accelerator.

The series would be much better if it focus on esper vs esper or esper vs magician issue instead have a super power being running amok.

And I also kind loathe at the idea of Misaka's clone things... I like how the writer convenience forgot about the whole clone after the "Sisters" project. Why don't the Academy City just mass produce Touma, Accelerator, Kuroko, Kakine and practically everyone? Why is Misaka Mikoto is the only victim for this? Even if those clones don't serve as the primarily goal for the villain, they can be still use like Misaka Worst.
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Old 2010-04-30, 09:40   Link #2947
Miraluka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noobita View Post
Don't you guys think that it was ridiculous for the writer to throw off the power balance in the Indexverse simply by introducing the whole God/Heaven/Angel things? And what's up with the extremely huge gap between another Lv5 Esper? I am looking at you, Mr.Accelerator.
Not only him, also Kakine Teitoku. Why? They can evolve. The others, no.


Quote:
Originally Posted by noobita View Post
And I also kind loathe at the idea of Misaka's clone things... I like how the writer convenience forgot about the whole clone after the "Sisters" project. Why don't the Academy City just mass produce Touma, Accelerator, Kuroko, Kakine and practically everyone? Why is Misaka Mikoto is the only victim for this? Even if those clones don't serve as the primarily goal for the villain, they can be still use like Misaka Worst.
Again, Aleister needs a network of espers with the same brainwaves pattern can do it throught electrical signals, in this case electromasters.
Second, Kuroko?? Who needs her if you have Awaki? Kakine and Accelerator powers can't be imitated, there are some projects in A.C. which failed this attempt.

-Third, Misaka Mikoto, the only victim??? Totally wrong, actually the sisters, Last Order included, are those who are suffering until vol.20.
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Old 2010-04-30, 09:53   Link #2948
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Not only him, also Kakine Teitoku. Why? They can evolve. The others, no.

Again, Aleister needs a network of espers with the same brainwaves pattern can do it throught electrical signals, in this case electromasters.
Second, Kuroko?? Who needs her if you have Awaki? Kakine and Accelerator powers can't be imitated, there are some projects in A.C. which failed this attempt.

-Third, Misaka Mikoto, the only victim??? Totally wrong, actually the sisters, Last Order included, are those who are suffering until vol.20.
That is the problem. Their so-called evolution make other Esper completely obsolete. It basically made Accelerator Goku and the rest of Esper Yamcha.

When I said victim, I am saying why Misaka Mikoto is the only target of the clone project? Why not other characters? I am aware that Aleister goal but my question is, why don't he make the good use of the clone project to cloning other Esper to build his military?

and I can't believe that you take seriously about explaining about Kuroko. Do you realize that I just simply throw any possible esper name as example?

And of course, you not going to tell me that, except Misaka, all those remaining espers power can't be imitated? It is obvious that creating 20,000 clones are not a hard task for A.C anymore.
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Old 2010-04-30, 10:39   Link #2949
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because he don't need those weakling esper.

Here is the outline of Aleister's Plan.

-first build up network
-then use network to materialize fake heaven or the AIM field
-then within the AIM field materialize the artificial ANGELS
-then when the artifial angels comes the real deal oddity arrives. a.k.a the unkown AIWASS that's been said guardian angel of Crowley but the looks of it's just neutral for now and want to observe what will happen.


As for question why he doesn't clone the other epser is because those epers can't beat up saints and the upper ubber power house of the magic side.

Aleister goal is the complete destruction of the Magic side. I don't know the reason but maybe its revange or something but the espers wouldn't stand a chance against them. The only one are probably the level 5. But if the battle is level 5 vs saints. Its obvious who will win. The only one yet confirmed tha can take on head on a saint is an awaken Accelerator and he needs to awaken to even go against a holy protected being.

As for cloning................ again and again I will say this. Cloning others would not help ALEISTER CROWLEY A BIT! if he can clone the dark matter and redirection of kakine and accelerator then probably but he couldn't. THAT'S WHY ITS NOT AN OPTION!

Plus why would he clone the lower class or the weakling if he could just send a 80 meter robot to wreak havoc on the opponent country. Or even send sonic speed bombarding jet fighters to smoke the enemy out.

Misaka is just lucky that she is a electro master and the strongest electro master to boot. That's why she's been cloned.

I have been away for a while and its a mess here already.

Even if its been use the word GOD as a comparison for accelerator and kakine's power. Well their powers are oddity itself and doesn't even fall on any category. Well except accelerator which is a type of advance telekinesis but dark matter is a complete odd ability which allows one to alter the mass and create a new substance out of the state of the matter. Applying its own law on the universal law of that matter.

If Aleister could just clone kakine and accelerator then he probably wouldn't do such a round about method and just clone those two with only 150 k something yen for each clone.
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Old 2010-04-30, 11:53   Link #2950
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
because he don't need those weakling esper.

Here is the outline of Aleister's Plan.

-first build up network
-then use network to materialize fake heaven or the AIM field
-then within the AIM field materialize the artificial ANGELS
-then when the artifial angels comes the real deal oddity arrives. a.k.a the unkown AIWASS that's been said guardian angel of Crowley but the looks of it's just neutral for now and want to observe what will happen.


As for question why he doesn't clone the other epser is because those epers can't beat up saints and the upper ubber power house of the magic side.

Aleister goal is the complete destruction of the Magic side. I don't know the reason but maybe its revange or something but the espers wouldn't stand a chance against them. The only one are probably the level 5. But if the battle is level 5 vs saints. Its obvious who will win. The only one yet confirmed tha can take on head on a saint is an awaken Accelerator and he needs to awaken to even go against a holy protected being.

As for cloning................ again and again I will say this. Cloning others would not help ALEISTER CROWLEY A BIT! if he can clone the dark matter and redirection of kakine and accelerator then probably but he couldn't. THAT'S WHY ITS NOT AN OPTION!

Plus why would he clone the lower class or the weakling if he could just send a 80 meter robot to wreak havoc on the opponent country. Or even send sonic speed bombarding jet fighters to smoke the enemy out.

Misaka is just lucky that she is a electro master and the strongest electro master to boot. That's why she's been cloned.

I have been away for a while and its a mess here already.

Even if its been use the word GOD as a comparison for accelerator and kakine's power. Well their powers are oddity itself and doesn't even fall on any category. Well except accelerator which is a type of advance telekinesis but dark matter is a complete odd ability which allows one to alter the mass and create a new substance out of the state of the matter. Applying its own law on the universal law of that matter.

If Aleister could just clone kakine and accelerator then he probably wouldn't do such a round about method and just clone those two with only 150 k something yen for each clone.
If Alesiter actually bother to create/make Misaka Worst as his part of military unit... Isn't the logical move is to build a bunch of esper clone to secure his A.C before his plans come to fruition?

Sure those esper cannot defy the God/Angel but it is good enough to use as bio-weapon to fend off those pesky mage or other country invasion. Why would he want to let such a cloning technology goes wasted? It is not like that one clone actually worth 1 billion or more.
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Old 2010-04-30, 13:00   Link #2951
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noobita View Post
If Alesiter actually bother to create/make Misaka Worst as his part of military unit... Isn't the logical move is to build a bunch of esper clone to secure his A.C before his plans come to fruition?
....AC is safe thanks to the sisters and hyouka kazakiri...if fuze=kazakiri can't protect AC, then that would mean the enemy isn't something that some low-level clones can stop or even slow down...

Quote:
Sure those esper cannot defy the God/Angel but it is good enough to use as bio-weapon to fend off those pesky mage or other country invasion. Why would he want to let such a cloning technology goes wasted? It is not like that one clone actually worth 1 billion or more.
because he doesn't need any other clones other than misaka's...he's not letting the cloning technology go to waste at all, he's putting it to good use, making all the clones he needs for his plans...

there's no reason for aleister to clone anyone other than mikoto
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Old 2010-04-30, 14:11   Link #2952
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I'd like to point out that when a clone is born, the highest Level it is is 2, which has been stated to be weak. The Misaka's are only Level 3 because of the network.

Then Misaka Worst comes along as a Level 4, meaning either they have improved the process or there are tonnes more or they have been out and about longer.

All the strongest powers can't be copied, and the weaker ones will be limited to Level 2. This is not cost effective.
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Old 2010-04-30, 16:48   Link #2953
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Very simply put, it's not worth creating an army of clones. As people have mentioned before, clones are inferior to their original, being only level 2-3 at best. Neither Accelerator nor Kakine's powers can be properly duplicate, and since Sogiita is a Gemstone, I doubt you can clone him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noobita View Post
If Alesiter actually bother to create/make Misaka Worst as his part of military unit... Isn't the logical move is to build a bunch of esper clone to secure his A.C before his plans come to fruition?

Sure those esper cannot defy the God/Angel but it is good enough to use as bio-weapon to fend off those pesky mage or other country invasion. Why would he want to let such a cloning technology goes wasted? It is not like that one clone actually worth 1 billion or more.
But the truth is, Academy City doesn't need an army of esper clones. In fact, Aleister has never intended to use espers as part of his army. It's current military power is more than enough to defend itself. They have total air dominance on the battlefield, on the ground their power suits can slaughter any regular soldiers, in the sea they have submarines that can't be detected by normal sonars. They have anti-missile defense covering the whole of Japan.

Misaka Worst is not part of this military force. She was created to specifically hunt on Last Order, but at the same time, Aleister knows she can screw with Accelerator's mind.
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Old 2010-04-30, 22:41   Link #2954
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If you are talking about Aleister's main military force it’s the Artificial Angel and the sub part are the military monster force of the academy city.

Aleister doesn't need the students to fight for him. In fact he only needs the student to just continue on their studies on academy city and nothing more. He doesn't need them on his own war against the magic side. They will just add casualties and Aleister hate it because that will make more students to drop out of academy city and an academy city without the students isn't academy city at all.

And it’s been stated before about the cloning. Cloning can clone the being but not its powers. And remember all the level 5 besides the gemstone just climb up the chart from lower level. So you can imagine that the misaka worst just been modify. Just by it looks you can tell it's been added emotions. The sisters are supposed to be devoid of it or rather they lack it. But the misaka worst shows clear emotion of anger on them.

Aleister doesn't need the students to fight; he only needs his artificial incomplete angel. Due to the fact that Fuze=Kazakiri is staying in academy city. Makes them clearly advantage. And from the beginning that is what he only needs. To spread the AIM field around the world and completely devoid all of their magic rights.

The only reason that Aleister allowed Hyouka to leave the AC is because Fianmma does possess threat to them. It's not just that Hyouka want to save Index that's why she flew away too rescue her. Because if Aleister doesn't even allow it. She can't leave the city at all.

But Fianmma is just a monster. It just shows how strong one who possess the power of the god's right hand, Arch Angel Michael by his side. The holy right isn't just for laughs. It takes on Vent and Misha and I think Hyouka too. But not at the same time..... I think. But still Vent manages to corner Fianmma to the corner that makes him summon the robot mode index. But remember Fianmma doesn't still have full control. But with two necessary piece with him. When he finally gets’s misha. His few steps close to becoming a complete control of the holy right.

I wonder how will touma fight Fianmma when his few steps to becoming full control of it. Touma really needs to know on how his power works.
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Old 2010-05-01, 23:26   Link #2955
Miraluka
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Lurking around the net I found this chart about power levels on the light novel series.

Spoiler for Power ranks chart:


On a side note, on Haimura's pixiv site, the votation ended with the victory of Mugino and Kakine, then a drawing of them should be posted soon.
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Old 2010-05-02, 00:07   Link #2956
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I saw that power chart before but their are tons of wrong and miss calculation on it. So I wouldn't believe it if I we're you.
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Old 2010-05-02, 01:17   Link #2957
Miraluka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
I saw that power chart before but their are tons of wrong and miss calculation on it. So I wouldn't believe it if I we're you.
Totally, too much free time is needed to made this chart, also I would like to spend my time posting new trapcelerator's pics in the gallery thread.
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Old 2010-05-02, 01:19   Link #2958
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
I saw that power chart before but their are tons of wrong and miss calculation on it. So I wouldn't believe it if I we're you.
Beside...two char being in two level (Index and Misha)

and...isn't Touma supposedly in the lowest?, he is a level 0
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Old 2010-05-02, 01:55   Link #2959
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Actually, he can't be classified easily.
One example is that he defeated Aureolus Izzard at the start of his amnesiac adventures yet he can't defeat Fiamma currently. That single fact already is enough to debunk the power ranks.
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Old 2010-05-02, 02:37   Link #2960
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Okay, once again, why the hell do people place Aleister and Laura so high up?


There are alot of major flaws with that chart that I'm sure all of you could have figured out. The number one problem I see with this is that people keep placing individuals with great political power high up in the ranks, when this is suppose to be a ranking of combat skills. Both Aleister and Laura have never even shown to possess any fighting capabilities. Secondly, how recent in the story should we be basing the rankings on? Currently in vol 20, both Vent and Aqua do not have their overpowered Angel-class spells, which in Vent's case would bump down her combat potential.
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