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Old 2010-08-21, 02:57   Link #4001
tsunade666
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A battle between the artificial and the real one. hmm that's a good theory and if that happen I bet touma is in between with those two colliding forces. he would yell... fukou da!!!
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Old 2010-08-21, 03:54   Link #4002
shmaster
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Btw, I interpret 'all magic' as to affect the telesma that Angels' use as well.
This is a very good point. Angels are composed of Telesma, literally. Even if Crowley did cleanse all Telesma on Earth, it can still leak in from a divine origin. Thus, invading heaven is a necessary measure if eh truly wants all magics gone.
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Old 2010-08-21, 04:04   Link #4003
tsunade666
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Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
This is a very good point. Angels are composed of Telesma, literally. Even if Crowley did cleanse all Telesma on Earth, it can still leak in from a divine origin. Thus, invading heaven is a necessary measure if eh truly wants all magics gone.
That's just add more reason for a all out war between the real heaven and academy city. But Aleister need more artificial angels for that. I wonder how many artificial angels are already functioning. if hyoka is the prototype where he could gather the data necessary for his artificial heaven.
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Old 2010-08-21, 10:30   Link #4004
oldmanpoo
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My memory is a little fuzzy on angel hierarchy, but I believe there are nine orders, with each consecutive three orders contained in one sphere for a total of three spheres (arranged left to right in terms of descending importance):

Seraphim, Cherubim, Thrones, Dominations, Virtues, Powers, Principalities, Archangels and Angels.

So your average Angels are at the bottom. The Archangels, I suppose you could say, guide the lower angels' duties both on Earth and in Heaven. Not sure about the next five. The Cherubim I believe are utilized as guards of some sort. I've heard somewhere before that Lucifer may have been a Cherubim (in reference to a scripture in Ezekiel 28:14 using the term "anointed Cherub" to describe who I believe to be Lucifer/Satan). The six-winged Seraphim are the highest order and encircle God's Throne.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of this. Or there may be alternate interpretations out there.

At any rate, seeing a Seraphim in Index would be epic (perhaps Seraphiel, one of the lead Seraphim, or even Metatron, another Seraphim).

Last edited by oldmanpoo; 2010-08-21 at 12:22.
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Old 2010-08-21, 10:58   Link #4005
Chaos2Frozen
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It's a super confusing topic with so many sources to choose from... I would know, I've tried to make sense of it a long time ago. That's why I say for simplicity sake we should just keep it short and throw out the whole Nine Orders system- An Archangel is an Angel with high rank, power and importance.
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Old 2010-08-21, 11:24   Link #4006
tsunade666
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is their a link about angels? Like who's metatron or serpahiel? it's an interesting thing specially if they would start showing up.
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Old 2010-08-21, 11:42   Link #4007
Cosmic Eagle
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Wow, that's amazing. Severely crippled and half summoned and it was still able to easily defeat some of the most powerful characters in the series single handedly. And to think Gabriel isn't even the strongest archangel, just imagine when we see Michaelangelo.
To be fair, it was Curtana Second that Carissa was using although I suspect the situation wouldn't be very different even with Curtana Original....
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Old 2010-08-21, 11:43   Link #4008
Suzuku
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmanpoo View Post
My memory is a little fuzzy on angel hierarchy, but I believe there are nine orders, with each consecutive three orders contained in one sphere for a total of three spheres (arranged left to right in terms of descending importance):

Seraphim, Cherubim, Thrones, Dominations, Virtues, Powers, Principalities, Archangels and Angels.

So your average Angels are at the bottom. The Archangels, I suppose you could say, guide the lower angels' duties both on Earth and in Heaven. Not sure about the next five. The Cherubim I believe are utilized as guards of some sort. I've heard somewhere before that Lucifer may have been a Cherubim (in reference to a scripture in Ezekiel 28:14 using the term "anointed Cherub" to describe who I believe to be Lucifer/Satan). The six-winged Seraphim are the highest order and encircle God's Throne.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of this. Or there may alternate interpretations out there.

At any rate, seeing a Seraphim in Index would be epic (perhaps Seraphiel, one of the lead Seraphim, or even Metatron, another Seraphim).
I read that Satan was the strongest Seraphim in Heaven or something like that. It really is confusing and there a lot of conflicting sources. I wonder how Kamachi will wade through it all.

Oh and there's been another update on Vol 8 Chapter 4:

http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/in...ume8_Chapter_4

66% done now. Teh_Ping with the quickness.
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Old 2010-08-21, 11:52   Link #4009
Cosmic Eagle
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If Seraphiel or Michael shows up then the entire scale just went way beyond epic.

Academy vs Heaven would be rather skewed against Academy's favor. They have only Kazakiri and Aiwass....
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Old 2010-08-21, 11:57   Link #4010
Suzuku
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Well Aiwass is apparently an existence far beyond that of an Archangel. As for Hyouka, she is only prototype and by the time Aleister expands his "Artificial Heaven" and take on the "Real Heaven" I'm sure he'll have an army of artificial angels at his disposal.
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Old 2010-08-21, 11:59   Link #4011
oldmanpoo
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I read that Satan was the strongest Seraphim in Heaven or something like that. It really is confusing and there a lot of conflicting sources. I wonder how Kamachi will wade through it all.
Yes, I believe he was "God's greatest creation" or something to that effect. Even as a Cherub (they are angels specialized in guarding so perhaps they are as strong as Seraphim?) I believe he was one of the/or the strongest angel(s).

Last edited by oldmanpoo; 2010-08-21 at 12:23.
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Old 2010-08-21, 12:00   Link #4012
tsunade666
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Aiwass wouldn't even help if that war starts. That guy just loves to stir emotions and watch them unfold. But is kazakiri really the only artificial angel of academy city? She's number 5 of imaginary sector. I wouldn't be surprised if there's lower number of more than 1 for academy city.

EDIT: isn't lucifer supposedly the most beautiful angel? with his light wings that symbols light.
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Old 2010-08-21, 12:08   Link #4013
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^ Yeah, he was referred to as the most beautiful angel as well. Like oldmanpoo said he was God's greatest creation and was at his right seat until he tried to become La Persona Superiore a Dio and was struct down by Michael with the Holy Stone.
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Old 2010-08-21, 12:28   Link #4014
tsunade666
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the holy stone? the curtana original in index verse was the sword of micheal that struck down evil.
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Old 2010-08-21, 12:38   Link #4015
Phibrizzo
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Actually Metatron is beyond all the 9 choirs and Archangels is not even funny, he is suppose to be the second only to god and the only angel which is entily to use the name of god for himself, he is like the representative of god, as it said noone can see god to face, so every time someone clain to have see god it was actually Metatron using God name.
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Old 2010-08-21, 12:46   Link #4016
oldmanpoo
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In 'Rabbinic' tradition (Jewish Talmud) he is held as the highest of the angels, but there is no general Christian consensus on his placing in the hierarchy, except to place him alongside Seraphiel as a Seraphim.

But Index likes to meld different religions together, so this shouldn't be an issue.
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Old 2010-08-21, 12:53   Link #4017
Phibrizzo
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I am aware of that little technical issue, but as you say this is a novel and if the 4 mayor archangels are no deal to Aiwass this is the only angel that comes to my mind that can compete with him.
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Old 2010-08-21, 12:55   Link #4018
Suzuku
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
the holy stone? the curtana original in index verse was the sword of micheal that struck down evil.
Holy Stone is what Fiamma said was used by Michael to seal Satan away for 1000 years, and Fiamma suspects that the Holy Stone is Imagine Breaker. That's what I meant by striking him down.
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Old 2010-08-21, 13:01   Link #4019
oldmanpoo
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Originally Posted by Phibrizzo View Post
I am aware of that little technical issue, but as you say this is a novel and if the 4 mayor archangels are no deal to Aiwass this is the only angel that comes to my mind that can compete with him.
I'd wager several angels above Archangel status could contend, especially those of Cherubim or Seraphim status, but it'd be pure speculation. We don't know anything about the higher order angels in Index, or much about Aiwass.
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Old 2010-08-21, 13:05   Link #4020
Phibrizzo
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Depends in most doctrines every archangel is more accurete (the 6 high archangels mainly) a angel of one of the other choirs thats given a special assigment and oversee over it.

Is more like a title than belong to a choir.
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