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Old 2010-08-22, 00:16   Link #4041
Suzuku
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I don't think Aiwass is an angel, it's just saying that that term fits it better than those other titles (according to that translation). We know at the very least that Aiwass' existence is AIM based similar to Hyouka, which would lead you to believe that it's an artificial angel, but I don't think that's exactly correct either.
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Old 2010-08-22, 00:37   Link #4042
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phibrizzo View Post
You know what would be funny and unfunny and god I hope I am wrong here that each of the 3 protagonist is a personification of the holy trinity.

For example Accelerator seems to be of the age of horus acording to Aiwass

God Father

Touma lack luck but it always helping people even if is following his own belives

Jesus

Mr I have all the luck of the world but I am useless otherwise

Holy spirit
Umm.....who's the third guy referring to?


Continuation of Gabriel vs the Princesses

Carissa and MOV withdraw towards the Academy and Russian forces surrounding the battlefield. However, Gabriel continues with its attack. 100 wings of ice strike down towards the princesses, a massive earthquake rocks Russia's lands when the attack hits. Carissa sustains more wounds; nothing too severe yet, just a bloodied lip and a wounded spine although both are pretty much exhausted at this point, despite being caught in a fault in the earth from the quake due to Curtana's protection, else she would have been crushed like a juice can. However, Curtana shatters from the immense strain. Gabriel gloats more angelic taunts as it prepares another attack. Defenceless and with Curtana's shards in hand, Carissa is utterly powerless. Understanding that retreat is futile, the princesses face the archangel seemingly about to be obliterated in the next attack.......until Carissa pulls out a comms set and orders a massive SAM strike, not on the archangel, but on the Star of Bethlehem. the archangel is torn between killing the princesses and defending the Star. As over a hundred missiles race towards the Star, Gabriel finally leaves to defend it.

that concludes part 3 of chapter 8


Need I say how awesome Carissa is even when stripped of nearly all her power?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
so what is she? an angel or not? that just brings that he real nature is like an angel but still shes not entirely one.
Sounds more like concentrated sentient AIM energy....sort of like the Chaos Gods if you play WH40K
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Old 2010-08-22, 00:43   Link #4043
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzuku View Post
I don't think Aiwass is an angel, it's just saying that that term fits it better than those other titles (according to that translation). We know at the very least that Aiwass' existence is AIM based similar to Hyouka, which would lead you to believe that it's an artificial angel, but I don't think that's exactly correct either.
Tsuchimikado said before that the definition of an Angel is a being that is created from giving conscience/will to the sum of a source of power/energy. Normal Angels use telesma, but Aiwass is prehaps made from AIM. This however does not automatically means that he is not an Angel because Tsuchimikado never stated that an Angel requires a specific type of power/energy to be called an Angel.

Likewise, Aiwass is different from Kazakiri because I strongly believe that he wasn't a man-made creation, but a natural born Angel of AIM. The reason why I said this is because Aiwass has been decribed, in both fact and fiction, to possess knowledge far beyond that of any human (maybe at that time). So he couldn't have been created by man.
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Old 2010-08-22, 00:44   Link #4044
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzuku View Post
I don't think Aiwass is an angel, it's just saying that that term fits it better than those other titles (according to that translation). We know at the very least that Aiwass' existence is AIM based similar to Hyouka, which would lead you to believe that it's an artificial angel, but I don't think that's exactly correct either.
Nop, Aiwass was just summoned by Aleister using the same mechanism he used to summon FUSE Kazakiri.
Aiwas itself mentioned that AIM is not enough to materialize its existence at full.
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Old 2010-08-22, 01:12   Link #4045
Suzuku
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Tsuchimikado said before that the definition of an Angel is a being that is created from giving conscience/will to the sum of a source of power/energy. Normal Angels use telesma, but Aiwass is prehaps made from AIM. This however does not automatically means that he is not an Angel because Tsuchimikado never stated that an Angel requires a specific type of power/energy to be called an Angel.

Likewise, Aiwass is different from Kazakiri because I strongly believe that he wasn't a man-made creation, but a natural born Angel of AIM. The reason why I said this is because Aiwass has been decribed, in both fact and fiction, to possess knowledge far beyond that of any human (maybe at that time). So he couldn't have been created by man.
Hmm, I'm just not sure if the term "angel" really correct in describing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Nop, Aiwass was just summoned by Aleister using the same mechanism he used to summon FUSE Kazakiri.
Aiwas itself mentioned that AIM is not enough to materialize its existence at full.
I think Aiwass appeared before Aleister, I don't think he summoned it himself.

And I've been skimming through the wikipedia articles on magick and wow, we probably could figure out Aleister's entire plan and what exactly Aiwass is from it. Every single term we've heard regarding Aiwass and Crowley is there and it has detailed explanations of what they mean. I wonder what type of research Kamachi does to have pulled all this together though? It's really incredible that he was able to incorporate this into a story.

By the way, is anyone familiar with Thelema? It's the religious philosophy that Aleister Crowley developed.
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Old 2010-08-22, 01:16   Link #4046
tsunade666
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but still his not an artificial one created. The AIM field generated through the sisters that support kazakiri and which further pumps up the AIM field resulting in him materializing but still that's not enough for him to completely emerge. Just like the situation with Gabriel. He can't fully materialize in this world. They are govern by this worlds limitation towards their existence.

They reminded me of Eternals from Eien no Aselia a good game

Quote:
Carissa and MOV withdraw towards the Academy
Did I read it right? academy? they are retreating on what academy? academy city? but that's out of russia.
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Old 2010-08-22, 01:33   Link #4047
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post


Did I read it right? academy? they are retreating on what academy? academy city? but that's out of russia.
Carissa and MOV withdraw towards the Academy and Russian forces. They (the two armies) are advancing towards the Star of Bethlehem
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Old 2010-08-22, 01:59   Link #4048
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Eternals? Not really. The higher up ones can practically do whatever they want. Especially when the Cosmic Balancers aren't really doing anything now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzuku View Post
^ Couldn't that just be a typo?
I think it is. I pull out the actual book and took a look. He simply says magic.

That line isn't very well translated, it should be like this:

Accelerator: "..the DRAGON"

Eiwas: "Referring me as such is not incorrect. It also matches with the symbol that is angel.... at least when compared to pompous names that were rumored down the street such as extraterrestrial intelligent life form, holy guardian angel, or the true secret chief of western magic cults in recent age, this name is far closer to my nature."

The interesting thing he says here is that he consider angel a "symbol".

Also, I do not believe Eiwas is an angel, like the chapter title in volume 19 has implied. AIM and FUSE=Kazakiri are nothing more than a medium to allow him to enter this world. I believe his true essence is something entirely different. Eiwas also most definitely not man made, consider he is Crowley's teacher.
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Old 2010-08-22, 02:09   Link #4049
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
Eternals? Not really. The higher up ones can practically do whatever they want. Especially when the Cosmic Balancers aren't really doing anything now.



I think it is. I pull out the actual book and took a look. He simply says magic.

That line isn't very well translated, it should be like this:

Accelerator: "..the DRAGON"

Eiwas: "Referring me as such is not incorrect. It also matches with the symbol that is angel.... at least when compared to pompous names that were rumored down the street such as extraterrestrial intelligent life form, holy guardian angel, or the true secret chief of western magic cults in recent age, this name is far closer to my nature."

The interesting thing he says here is that he consider angel a "symbol".

Also, I do not believe Eiwas is an angel, like the chapter title in volume 19 has implied. AIM and FUSE=Kazakiri are nothing more than a medium to allow him to enter this world. I believe his true essence is something entirely different. Eiwas also most definitely not man made, consider he is Crowley's teacher.
Hmm.....I just thought of this.....what if Aiwass is Satan? Dragon is used many times to refer to Satan in literature....and being a corrupted fallen angel, similar to but not exactly an angel.
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Old 2010-08-22, 02:21   Link #4050
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that's also been used when in vol 2. Izzard imagine the imagine breaker as a dragon but if fianma's holy right is the one who seal the demon which brings peace then that makes imagine breaker different but may still be related to dragon. But for Aiwass it might turn right too for he didn't deny it plus he didn't deny the word angel. As we know demons are fallen angel or once an angel. And in toaruverse angel is a symbol of power for the god.
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Old 2010-08-22, 03:09   Link #4051
cubicjack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
Continuation of Gabriel vs the Princesses

Carissa and MOV withdraw towards the Academy and Russian forces surrounding the battlefield. However, Gabriel continues with its attack. 100 wings of ice strike down towards the princesses, a massive earthquake rocks Russia's lands when the attack hits. Carissa sustains more wounds; nothing too severe yet, just a bloodied lip and a wounded spine although both are pretty much exhausted at this point, despite being caught in a fault in the earth from the quake due to Curtana's protection, else she would have been crushed like a juice can. However, Curtana shatters from the immense strain. Gabriel gloats more angelic taunts as it prepares another attack. Defenceless and with Curtana's shards in hand, Carissa is utterly powerless. Understanding that retreat is futile, the princesses face the archangel seemingly about to be obliterated in the next attack.......until Carissa pulls out a comms set and orders a massive SAM strike, not on the archangel, but on the Star of Bethlehem. the archangel is torn between killing the princesses and defending the Star. As over a hundred missiles race towards the Star, Gabriel finally leaves to defend it.

that concludes part 3 of chapter 8
I believe that's not entirely correct.

After the gatling gun-like attack (the one on p. 209), Gabriel increased its speed, then turned and faced the AC and Russian troops. Of course, the troops won't be able to defend against Gabriel. Wanting to protect the people, Carissa moved at supersonic speed and forced herself in between Gabriel and the troops. Then once again, Gabriel unleashed the wing attack.

Carissa sustained some damages and was pressed against the ground, almost getting crushed like a juice can, even though she defended with her sword. Furthermore, the Curtana Second shard used to create the sword was destroyed. Seeing this, Gabriel deemed the attack to be effective and unleashed another one at Carissa.

After that attack, Carrissa stood up with one sword in each hand, and 10 more hanging around her waist like decoration on the dress, saying that she didn't only have one Curtana Second shard.

After a bit of fighting, Carissa called for the SAM strike.
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Old 2010-08-22, 03:23   Link #4052
tsunade666
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Basically the 2nd princess manage to salvage up the shattered curtana original into fine weapons.
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Old 2010-08-22, 03:32   Link #4053
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Curtana Original was completely destroyed. The shards are from Curtana Second. Curtana Second was damaged when the Queen used it to fight Curtana Original. That's where the shards came from.
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Old 2010-08-22, 05:08   Link #4054
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cubicjack View Post
I believe that's not entirely correct.

After the gatling gun-like attack (the one on p. 209), Gabriel increased its speed, then turned and faced the AC and Russian troops. Of course, the troops won't be able to defend against Gabriel. Wanting to protect the people, Carissa moved at supersonic speed and forced herself in between Gabriel and the troops. Then once again, Gabriel unleashed the wing attack.

Carissa sustained some damages and was pressed against the ground, almost getting crushed like a juice can, even though she defended with her sword. Furthermore, the Curtana Second shard used to create the sword was destroyed. Seeing this, Gabriel deemed the attack to be effective and unleashed another one at Carissa.

After that attack, Carrissa stood up with one sword in each hand, and 10 more hanging around her waist like decoration on the dress, saying that she didn't only have one Curtana Second shard.

After a bit of fighting, Carissa called for the SAM strike.
Ah so those 10 were Second shards as well? I saw a bit where she says something about how England powers her and if her blade shatters she's powerless....am I reading that part correct?
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Old 2010-08-22, 06:41   Link #4055
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
Hmm.....I just thought of this.....what if Aiwass is Satan? Dragon is used many times to refer to Satan in literature....and being a corrupted fallen angel, similar to but not exactly an angel.
That thought crossed my mind when I saw the term "DRAGON". Lucifer has been described as such several times in the Bible:

Spoiler:


Although, Aiwass hasn't particularly come across as malevolent so far.

Aiwass was also described by Crowley as a "minister" of the Egyptian-like god central to his Thelema religion, Hoor-paar-kraat, or "Horus the Child" (pulled from Wikipedia, not the novels), so perhaps in that sense Aiwass is technically an "angel" but not the same as the kind under God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzuku View Post

By the way, is anyone familiar with Thelema? It's the religious philosophy that Aleister Crowley developed.
Yeah, it really is all on Wikipedia. I was scanning through it all a few days ago. Crowley was a messed up man.
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Old 2010-08-22, 07:04   Link #4056
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmanpoo View Post
That thought crossed my mind when I saw the term "DRAGON". Lucifer has been described as such several times in the Bible:

Spoiler:


Although, Aiwass hasn't particularly come across as malevolent so far.

Aiwass was also described by Crowley as a "minister" of the Egyptian-like god central to his Thelema religion, Hoor-paar-kraat, or "Horus the Child" (pulled from Wikipedia, not the novels), so perhaps in that sense Aiwass is technically an "angel" but not the same as the kind under God.



Yeah, it really is all on Wikipedia. I was scanning through it all a few days ago. Crowley was a messed up man.
True Thelema seems like some twisted forerunner to Scientology if you ask me....
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Old 2010-08-22, 07:24   Link #4057
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when I tried to read crowley's work in wikipedia I just notice some messed up ideas specially with his over happy sex life. No wonder touma had lots of harem. Touma's fulfilling the words of crowley and his teachings
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Old 2010-08-22, 07:51   Link #4058
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I recall some irchats that discussed the possibility that Scientology may well be the only 'religion' touted in Academy City... Now it looks like its all Aleister's fault all along!

Which by extension means... Tom Cruise lives in Academy City.
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Old 2010-08-22, 08:02   Link #4059
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Oh God. So this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gqcpa...feature=search

..was all Aleister's fault.
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Old 2010-08-22, 08:12   Link #4060
Suzuku
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
that's also been used when in vol 2. Izzard imagine the imagine breaker as a dragon but if fianma's holy right is the one who seal the demon which brings peace then that makes imagine breaker different but may still be related to dragon. But for Aiwass it might turn right too for he didn't deny it plus he didn't deny the word angel. As we know demons are fallen angel or once an angel. And in toaruverse angel is a symbol of power for the god.
No, Fiamma thinks that Touma's Imagine Breaker is the Holy Stone that was used by Michael to seal Satan away and can bring miracles. It's never been stated that the Holy Right was used to seal Satan IIRC.
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