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Old 2010-10-17, 16:57   Link #5421
I_am_Kami
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In the anime episode 2 i heard styil say that the book of law was written by someone that wasn't Crowley but i forgot there name. Im posting this so someone can remind me the name and see if anyone knows if that name was important in Our universe like Aleister Crowley
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Old 2010-10-17, 16:58   Link #5422
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I_am_Kami View Post
In the anime episode 2 i heard styil say that the book of law was written by someone that wasn't Crowley but i forgot there name. Im posting this so someone can remind me the name and see if anyone knows if that name was important in Our universe like Aleister Crowley
Stiyl said that The Book of the Law was written by a man named Edward Alexander.
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Old 2010-10-17, 17:01   Link #5423
Suzuku
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I_am_Kami View Post
In the anime episode 2 i heard styil say that the book of law was written by someone that wasn't Crowley but i forgot there name. Im posting this so someone can remind me the name and see if anyone knows if that name was important in Our universe like Aleister Crowley
Edward Alexander Crowley is Aleister Crowley's real name. Why don't you just go back into the episode and look anyway? lol.
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Old 2010-10-17, 18:24   Link #5424
shmaster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
Yap and think what that big attack is meant to destroy.... Touma. it's an attack that could destroy the Eurasia together with Touma.

But accelerator stops it.

The power of holy right and imagine breaker matches the opponents. But who is the opponent of Fiamma?............... it's Touma

plus even without that Fiamma is still hax one hit KO dood that destroy anything it touches.

Even if Accelerator finally evolve into an angel do you think he can still go against Fiamma?
A mistake here. Fiamma's enemy is the "world" in this case. He has default the setting on the Holy Right to make the world his enemy. This is why he need WW3, he needs to fill the world with anguish and hatred, so his Holy Right has a planet of negative emotion to teat it as enemy.

This is why Fiamma is losing his battle with Touma. WW3 didn't brought forth enough grudges and hatred, further, having Fiamma as world's common enemy, everyone become united instead. Thus the world is gradually losing its negative emotion, and with its enemy weakened, Holy Right loses output.

The huge blast that can destroy Eurasia is Fiamma's final draw to turn the table. He collected all the remaining Telesma from the golden sky to annihilate Eurasia. With Eurasia devastated, the people of the world would out to despair and the world will once again be filled with negative emotions.

To put it simply, Fiamma's power has already been drastically reduced by that point.

Last edited by shmaster; 2010-10-17 at 18:53.
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Old 2010-10-17, 19:53   Link #5425
Marcus H.
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Originally Posted by Wikipedia Article on Ma'at
Maat, Ma'at, Maāt or Mayet, thought to have been pronounced [muʔ.ʕat], was the Ancient Egyptian concept of truth, balance, order, law, morality, and justice. Maat was also personified as a goddess regulating the stars, seasons, and the actions of both mortals and the deities, who set the order of the universe from chaos at the moment of creation.
Now, shall we start the speculations?
Truth, balance, order, law, MORALITY AND JUSTICE just screams Touma.
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Old 2010-10-17, 20:02   Link #5426
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Not to mention her name is almost Touma spelt backwards.
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Old 2010-10-17, 20:20   Link #5427
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
A mistake here. Fiamma's enemy is the "world" in this case. He has default the setting on the Holy Right to make the world his enemy. This is why he need WW3, he needs to fill the world with anguish and hatred, so his Holy Right has a planet of negative emotion to teat it as enemy.
Question, is Imagine Breaker similar to the Holy Right in that aspect? Does it also adjust itself to the opponent it's facing?

If so, how does it translate to Touma? I mean, if Imagine Breaker doesn't change it's effect, how does it help Touma survive all that abuse??

And finally, if they are like the same, can Touma learn to manipulate Imagine Breaker like what Fiamma does for his Holy Right?
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Old 2010-10-17, 20:30   Link #5428
outerelf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Question, is Imagine Breaker similar to the Holy Right in that aspect? Does it also adjust itself to the opponent it's facing?

If so, how does it translate to Touma? I mean, if Imagine Breaker doesn't change it's effect, how does it help Touma survive all that abuse??

And finally, if they are like the same, can Touma learn to manipulate Imagine Breaker like what Fiamma does for his Holy Right?
No, the IB is not like the Holy Right. It can negate up to a certain amount of magic/esper power and no more. (At least, up until vol. 22, after vol.22 all bets are off) This is seen with the fight against Accelerator where he can't negate the wings.

The IB is probably bringing only bad luck upon Touma- but not enough bad luck to die. To die would bring no luck, and thereby a anti-theme against bad luck, and thereby not tolerated (purely conjecture).
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Old 2010-10-17, 20:43   Link #5429
shmaster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Question, is Imagine Breaker similar to the Holy Right in that aspect? Does it also adjust itself to the opponent it's facing?

If so, how does it translate to Touma? I mean, if Imagine Breaker doesn't change it's effect, how does it help Touma survive all that abuse??

And finally, if they are like the same, can Touma learn to manipulate Imagine Breaker like what Fiamma does for his Holy Right?
IB still has a upper limit at this point. Touma survived Fiamma's attack as Touma by learning not just canceling enemy attack, but change their directions as well. Then the fact that Fiamma was getting weakened as Star of Bethlehem getting dismantled and the world getting united; Fiamma's attack isn't as lethal to Touma as it would be.

Though, on the topic whether Touma can manipulate his IB like Holy Right, is a question too early to ask. Holy Right has been properly refined with all the necessary materials. While IB has been left in its starting state.
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Old 2010-10-17, 20:46   Link #5430
~Greed~
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
Now, shall we start the speculations?
Truth, balance, order, law, MORALITY AND JUSTICE just screams Touma.
I was more talking about The Age of Ma'at on the last page, which was a age that one of Aliester Crowley's students said would come after The Age of Horus. Aliester had a different name for the Fourth Age, but I forget the name of it. I'm not sure if the concepts of the age's are the same though.

But that is defiantly interesting information you found.
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Old 2010-10-17, 21:34   Link #5431
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Just pointing out a tidbit from the novel, 'Edward Alexander' is just another name Aleister Crowley goes by for one reason or another - Refer to Volume 7 Chapter 2 for details.
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Old 2010-10-17, 22:39   Link #5432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
A mistake here. Fiamma's enemy is the "world" in this case. He has default the setting on the Holy Right to make the world his enemy. This is why he need WW3, he needs to fill the world with anguish and hatred, so his Holy Right has a planet of negative emotion to teat it as enemy.

This is why Fiamma is losing his battle with Touma. WW3 didn't brought forth enough grudges and hatred, further, having Fiamma as world's common enemy, everyone become united instead. Thus the world is gradually losing its negative emotion, and with its enemy weakened, Holy Right loses output.

The huge blast that can destroy Eurasia is Fiamma's final draw to turn the table. He collected all the remaining Telesma from the golden sky to annihilate Eurasia. With Eurasia devastated, the people of the world would out to despair and the world will once again be filled with negative emotions.

To put it simply, Fiamma's power has already been drastically reduced by that point.
This is what the Aeon of Osiris means, just like Accelerator's despair, hatred and sadness brings him more power through his "Black Wings", Fiamma followed the same path.

The difference is done when Accelerator changes his views and gained in exchange White Wings and a halo.

My guess is if Fiamma changes his views there is no doubt the way how Holy Right manifests into this world will change. Maybe the mirage bird claw will turn into something different.
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Old 2010-10-17, 23:25   Link #5433
Flere821
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OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG!!!! Just got my hands on Chinese translations of Vol22 xD (well technically, it's only half of the entire novel...)

First, here's a missing pic:

Fiamma: I'm about to save this world. Therefore, I have no more use for you. Feel the glory, meatbag. Your value as a human being, obdiently let me have it.

And WOW, the events keep one-upping each other:

- Shiage pulls off a speech worthy of Touma, convincing Mugino not to fight anymore. No more should they have to do the dirty work of adults (like the Bosses of ITEM and SCHOOL), and he promises to protect her (This is AFTER he found Mugino's been damaged not just in her eye and arm, but a ton of other modifications was made to her insides and she's literally falling to pieces).
Even though Mugino says that's not possible, due to what she has done, killing Frenda and trying to kill him and Rikou... not to mention he has already chosen Rikou over her. Shiage acknowledges all that, but says if she makes amends then everything will be fine. He promises that though he has chosen Rikou, he'll still protect all of them, Rikou, Mugino and Saiai; so they can go back to being ITEM again. Mugino laughed, saying a Level 0 like him is going to protect a Level 5 like her - but she's glad he thinks like that.
Then Academy City forces arrived to eliminate Mugino due to her failure.

(side note: Shiage acknowledges Mugino is probably the most attractive member of ITEM)

(Own comments: so this da*ned Ba$tard is trying to build himself a harem as well?!)

- Mikoto shows her true power, blowing a EMP out from her that took down the Nuclear missile base's attack, then took in all the iron sand in a 200m radius of her and cut apart the entire base like a black serpent. And nobody died o_O

-Vassilisa, Sasha's boss, is a immortal witch - and she went and took down Nikolai, Fiamma's 'partner' that ordered the nuclear strikes on Star of Bethlehem. Nikolai tried to use a h4x spell specifically designed to take her down, and it took years of preparation, but it turns out it does NOTHING to her - Vassilisa is like the equivalent of 'High Daylight Walker' (see Negima) vampire in this series.

- Touma's part fighting against Fiamma, already translated from before;

AND FINALLY; back when Aiwass stabbed Accelerator with his wings, Aiwass gave Accel some knowledge that provides the basis of his angel song - ie EVERYTHING is 'just as planned' to Aiwass :jawdrop:


There's more, but I'm too incapacitated by the fangasm to post anymore - when I calm down somewhat I'll post more later.

EDIT: some other stuff:

- Fiamma's right hand can destroy some of the other Satellite lasers Academy City sent up without anyone knowing when fired down at Fiamma. And Fiamma pulled out some spells Index had memorised to fight Touma.
-Touma learned to deflect any spell that he can't erase with his right hand alone. And he can sense people teleporting behind him and block a incoming attack (yes, Fiamma can teleport somehow).

-It's confirmed that Index's red wings are like a angel's.
-Frey's sword that Index is using is said to be undefeatable, and Frey only lost in Ragnorak because he have that sword to someone else in that war.

-Kazakiri left Russia because Academy City forcibly recalled her back, not because of running out of power or anything

Last edited by Flere821; 2010-10-17 at 23:43.
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Old 2010-10-18, 00:03   Link #5434
Master Assassin
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Just how much "Holy S__ting" is Volume 22 is going to make us do???

Quote:
Fiamma: I'm about to save this world. Therefore, I have no more use for you. Feel the glory, meatbag. Your value as a human being, obdiently let me have it.
And then he opens the key to getting pwned... Nice Job Fixing It Fiamma.

Quote:
- Shiage pulls off a speech worthy of Touma, convincing Mugino not to fight anymore. No more should they have to do the dirty work of adults (like the Bosses of ITEM and SCHOOL), and he promises to protect her (This is AFTER he found Mugino's been damaged not just in her eye and arm, but a ton of other modifications was made to her insides and she's literally falling to pieces).
Even though Mugino says that's not possible, due to what she has done, killing Frenda and trying to kill him and Rikou... not to mention he has already chosen Rikou over her. Shiage acknowledges all that, but says if she makes amends then everything will be fine. He promises that though he has chosen Rikou, he'll still protect all of them, Rikou, Mugino and Saiai; so they can go back to being ITEM again. Mugino laughed, saying a Level 0 like him is going to protect a Level 5 like her - but she's glad he thinks like that.
Then Academy City forces arrived to eliminate Mugino due to her failure.

(side note: Shiage acknowledges Mugino is probably the most attractive member of ITEM)

(Own comments: so this da*ned Ba$tard is trying to build himself a harem as well?!)
So we got another "lucky bastard" (well he proclaimed it himself!) here. So the beam Shiage got hit with was REALLY THE BEAM OF LOVE! XD

Quote:
- Mikoto shows her true power, blowing a EMP out from her that took down the Nuclear missile base's attack, then took in all the iron sand in a 200m radius of her and cut apart the entire base like a black serpent. And nobody died o_O
... I knew she's a very powerful Electromaster, but this is starting to make me think how that power is so much like a monster and yet she's still one of the most gentle and kind Level 5s in this series! AND DAMN ADORABLE WHEN TOUMA MAKES HER BLUSH! :shock:

Quote:
-Touma learned to deflect any spell that he can't erase with his right hand alone. And he can sense people teleporting behind him and block a incoming attack (yes, Fiamma can teleport somehow).
... This is so going to make Kuroko lose her chances in "a fight for onee-sama's love" ...

Quote:
-It's confirmed that Index's red wings are like a angel's.
-Frey's sword that Index is using is said to be undefeatable, and Frey only lost in Ragnorak because he have that sword to someone else in that war.
... I'm starting to really think if Index somehow had something related to Nidhoggur after all, even though I previously said something like that as a joke.

Quote:
-Kazakiri left Russia because Academy City forcibly recalled her back, not because of running out of power or anything
Poor Kazakiri. Just when I thought she'll be able to meet Index again...
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Old 2010-10-18, 00:57   Link #5435
tsunade666
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Originally Posted by Flere821 View Post

-Vassilisa, Sasha's boss, is a immortal witch - and she went and took down Nikolai, Fiamma's 'partner' that ordered the nuclear strikes on Star of Bethlehem. Nikolai tried to use a h4x spell specifically designed to take her down, and it took years of preparation, but it turns out it does NOTHING to her - Vassilisa is like the equivalent of 'High Daylight Walker' (see Negima) vampire in this series.

-
I didn't care much about the other part even though it's interesting but I had already some few ideas related to that

though this one is surprising. An immortal finally shows up and clearly saying an immortal. An immortal witch and an equivalent of Eva in this series.

Wow just shows how strong those in the higher positions.

In toaruverse being in the top place doesn't mean you had money and authority but you had POWER, power to keep your underlings at bay.
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Old 2010-10-18, 01:45   Link #5436
Plant42
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Originally Posted by Flere821 View Post
-Touma learned to deflect any spell that he can't erase with his right hand alone. And he can sense people teleporting behind him and block a incoming attack (yes, Fiamma can teleport somehow).
For anyone who wonder how he's doing that, it's just another output of the Holy right.

Speaks about the basic rule of the Holy right.
If IB is an absolute power for deleting and canceling all supernatural power, Holy right is the absolute power of defeating and conquering everything.


It's output is depends on how strong the target is, the Holy right will always unleash the power that's suitable in defeating its target.
The target itself is not only a living entity but also any distress, trial and concepts too(such as humanity's malice or the distance).

With the unlimited power it has, this ability is enough to be able to be called omnipotence in fighting aspect.
The teleport thing is happen from the fact that he designate "a distance" to be his target.
Because of that, things that normally need in a fight such as power,speed,interval and etc are not necessary for Fiamma, Just swings the hand and the victory becomes his.

That's why the name of the first chapter of this volume is called "Broken Right Hand".
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Old 2010-10-18, 02:21   Link #5437
Flere821
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Also, I'm translating that bit between Shiage and Mugino right now, and it should be done in a few hrs So nobody else have to go and do it right now.
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Old 2010-10-18, 02:48   Link #5438
shmaster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flere821 View Post
AND FINALLY; back when Aiwass stabbed Accelerator with his wings, Aiwass gave Accel some knowledge that provides the basis of his angel song - ie EVERYTHING is 'just as planned' to Aiwass :jawdrop:
Technically, Aiwass didn't give Accelerator any knowledge. Aiwass just stabbed him, and that is enough in itself.

Kazakiri told Accelerator that the original song by Index is targeted against her, so it does not automatically apply to Aiwass. Accelerator has to reconstruct the song to work against Aiwass. She told the data of the song is preserved in Last Order's own brain, and then she pinted out Accelerator already has the data of Aiwass he need to update the song.

Accelerator then come to realize the true nature of his power... which is.. well... accelerator. As in those quantum simulator we find in real life. He can input all the necessary data than begin calculating and begin simulating on what is true base on those data.
When Accelerator got stabbed, he naturally recorded the vector of Aiwass's attack, just he couldn't understand it. But by combining the knowledge from the goat skin, the song from Index's Spell Intercept, and then Aiwass's vector, he dump them all together and begin calculating through the accelerator, he was be able to derive the proper song to purge Aiwass's influence from Last Order.
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Old 2010-10-18, 03:34   Link #5439
Flere821
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Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
Technically, Aiwass didn't give Accelerator any knowledge. Aiwass just stabbed him, and that is enough in itself.
Hmm... after going back to check... you're right, guess I misread that ^.^;

And as promised, Some of the bit between Shiage and Mugino. Extract from Vol22 Ch9 pt3 (ie the whole of part 3 is not just about Shiage and Mugino - plus I skipped some of the bit where it's just Mugino trying to kill Shiage as well) :

Spoiler:

Last edited by Flere821; 2010-10-18 at 03:40. Reason: typos
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Old 2010-10-18, 04:25   Link #5440
arkblazer
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you are awesome dude, thanks.
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