AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > Manga & Light Novels > To Aru... Index [LN/M]

Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2011-08-07, 21:35   Link #12421
Drifting Wolf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Their so-called important role equals just existing, they haven't done anything important besides getting beaten up and victimized.
They also provide the foundation for the AIM network around the world, allowing the manifestation of beings like FUSE=Kazakiri and the widening of the 'Artificial Heaven' present in Academy City.

I think that's what he meant.
Drifting Wolf is offline  
Old 2011-08-07, 21:37   Link #12422
Marcus H.
Hunk o' Burning Love
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: the Philippines
I'm sensing Mikoto hate incoming.
Don't do it here, guys. Don't do it here.
__________________
Marcus' Handpicked!
Summer 2014: Hanayamata, Rail Wars!, Rokujouma no Shinryakusha!?, Sabagebu!, Gekkan Shoujo Nozaki-kun and Hanamonogatari.
Autumn 2014: Log Horizon S2, Amagi Brilliant Park and Fate/Stay Night (2014).


Contact me on Wikia, MyAnimeList and Hummingbird.
MyAnimeList Status|| Watching: 36. Completed: 214. Plan to watch: 33.

Marcus H. is offline  
Old 2011-08-07, 21:44   Link #12423
Chaos2Frozen
:)
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Moon that Wizard came from
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by leukrota View Post
Correction then... they live a more important role than Mikoto.

Don't get me wrong, I like Mikoto as a character, and she's too epic not to use. Yet, she hasn't got (and might not get) the chance to make a relevant contribution that influences the course of the story (besides providing her genes.)
So how is that different from the clones not doing anything by just existing?

You say the clones' contribute to the big picture by just existing, then in that case Mikoto also contributed to the big picture by just existing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drifting Wolf View Post
They also provide the foundation for the AIM network around the world, allowing the manifestation of beings like FUSE=Kazakiri and the widening of the 'Artificial Heaven' present in Academy City.

I think that's what he meant.
I know what he meant, but it sounds almost like the clones were actually doing something- They're not. Everything they do they ended up getting beaten or being victims, or needing help from someone else- When was the last time a clone accomplish anything by herself?

Worst was the closest but even she was beaten up.
Chaos2Frozen is online now  
Old 2011-08-07, 21:48   Link #12424
Endscape
The Mage of Four Hearts
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by outerelf View Post
Ever heard 'You can bring a horse to water but you can't make it drink'? Trust me, Mikoto has heard about magicians so many times- Touma has stated it; she's been caught up in magician battles so many times it's absolutely amazing she hasn't just recognized it yet.

But she doesn't wish to recognize it, so she wont. It doesn't matter what sort of proof you give her, she'll rationalize it away.

I realize all of that, and it's true. Still, at some point she must come to learn about and accept the existence of magic and magicians. Whatever way she does, she must learn at some point.
__________________




Illusion, illusion, this is illusion. It cannot harm me.
Endscape is offline  
Old 2011-08-07, 21:52   Link #12425
Drifting Wolf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
So how is that different from the clones not doing anything by just existing?

You say the clones' contribute to the big picture by just existing, then in that case Mikoto also contributed to the big picture by just existing.



I know what he meant, but it sounds almost like the clones were actually doing something- They're not. Everything they do they ended up getting beaten or being victims, or needing help from someone else- When was the last time a clone accomplish anything by herself?

Worst was the closest but even she was beaten up.
The reason they don't do anything is because they'd be too effective altogether. Imagine them using their hardball tactics on the magician side with the need to kill like when they were facing Accelerator -

Snipers on the roof
Explosives ready to take down a building
Burning away oxygen to suffocate people inside a building
Cutting away their power

Etc, etc. They'd be just as effective as Emiya Kiritsugu... except even more since they actually have viable powers. The only reason they haven't shown to be effective is because they haven't been put to good use by the author. Heck, take a couple of hundred of them and they could probably do a better job policing than AntiSkill.

Who knows, maybe Touma would have his own personal SWAT squad soon enough.
Drifting Wolf is offline  
Old 2011-08-07, 21:53   Link #12426
I_am_Kami
Disabled By Request
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The 305
Age: 20
Didn't the clones shut down Gemstone or other Esper facilities outside of AC?
I_am_Kami is offline  
Old 2011-08-07, 21:53   Link #12427
Miraluka
18 forever
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
I'm sensing Mikoto hate incoming.
Don't do it here, guys. Don't do it here.
Isn't "that" place, so don't worry.
__________________

Deal with it!
Miraluka is offline  
Old 2011-08-07, 21:58   Link #12428
leukrota
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
How about taking out nuclear weapons, or how she provided the motive for Touma to get involved in the Level 5 project, ultimately contributing to Accelerator's disability?
Taking out the nuclear silo helped prevent a nuclear fallout that would have had a hellish load of victims, but with Fiamma on the Star of Bethlehem it wouldn't have harmed him or Touma (much less the star) thus not influencing the great scheme.

Providing Touma a motive... wasn't that a bit too passive a role?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
So how is that different from the clones not doing anything by just existing?

You say the clones' contribute to the big picture by just existing, then in that case Mikoto also contributed to the big picture by just existing.
Guess the main difference is that if Mikoto were to die, it wouldn't matter to Aleister's plan. The network on the other hand is continually needed (though I guess it could be recreated if they were wiped out.)

I don't know, I'd like for her to at least do something to piss Aleister like Hamazura did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I_am_Kami View Post
Didn't the clones shut down Gemstone or other Esper facilities outside of AC?
Hmm... Though at the moment that was just salvation, it might prove to be important in the future...

EDIT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drifting Wolf View Post
Who knows, maybe Touma would have his own personal SWAT squad soon enough.
That would be cool. Take the 20 that were left at the Academy for a special team.

I could picture them been led by either Touma or Shiage, as both have a nice tactical sense.
leukrota is offline  
Old 2011-08-07, 22:20   Link #12429
Miraluka
18 forever
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by leukrota View Post
Taking out the nuclear silo helped prevent a nuclear fallout that would have had a hellish load of victims, but with Fiamma on the Star of Bethlehem it wouldn't have harmed him or Touma (much less the star) thus not influencing the great scheme.
Even without Fiamma, Gabriel was already interceptim missiles launched towards the Star.

Quote:
Providing Touma a motive... wasn't that a bit too passive a role?
We are talking about Touma, motives? Screw that, Touma needs no reason to help.

Quote:
Guess the main difference is that if Mikoto were to die, it wouldn't matter to Aleister's plan. The network on the other hand is continually needed (though I guess it could be recreated if they were wiped out.)
The original doesn't matter anymore, and Academy City has already her DNA map, so they'll just make another Level 5, MEMBER's Hakase implied that on Vol. 15 and what makes the clones important is their position in the globe for the sake of Aleister's plan, remember the whole experiment was a facade to do that.
__________________

Deal with it!
Miraluka is offline  
Old 2011-08-08, 01:46   Link #12430
Chaos2Frozen
:)
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Moon that Wizard came from
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Even without Fiamma, Gabriel was already interceptim missiles launched towards the Star.
Two words; Nuclear Fallout.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drifting Wolf View Post
The reason they don't do anything is because they'd be too effective altogether. Imagine them using their hardball tactics on the magician side with the need to kill like when they were facing Accelerator -

Firstly, it would be too impractical to employ a large number of them without drawing attention.

According to Accelerator, the ten that they have in Academy won't stand a chance against even Hound Dog. When sent against Ollerus they got defeated (can't be helped, but since people point out Mikoto's weaker status against the strongest of magicians, it's only fair to use this example on the clones). On the Remnant arc, the only useful thing they did was to get Touma's help, when Last Order was being pursued they were no where in sight.

There is nothing to suggest they have extensive combat skills beyond fighting Accelerator.... Even then they didn't do a good job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leukrota View Post
Taking out the nuclear silo helped prevent a nuclear fallout that would have had a hellish load of victims, but with Fiamma on the Star of Bethlehem it wouldn't have harmed him or Touma (much less the star) thus not influencing the great scheme.

Erm, I'm very certain a global nuclear winter would cause an even bigger deal than that current grand scheme.

With a great disaster in the world, Fiamma's Holy Right powers would be invincible again.


Quote:
Originally Posted by leukrota View Post
Guess the main difference is that if Mikoto were to die, it wouldn't matter to Aleister's plan. The network on the other hand is continually needed (though I guess it could be recreated if they were wiped out.)
It's been bugging me for some time, don't you find it funny to judge the characters according to the only Aleister's plan? Like it's the only thing that matters? Therefore Hamazura is a completely worthless character right? Bardway serve no purpose right? Kanzaki is pointless right?
Chaos2Frozen is online now  
Old 2011-08-08, 02:09   Link #12431
Drifting Wolf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Two words; Nuclear Fallout.




Firstly, it would be too impractical to employ a large number of them without drawing attention.

According to Accelerator, the ten that they have in Academy won't stand a chance against even Hound Dog. When sent against Ollerus they got defeated (can't be helped, but since people point out Mikoto's weaker status against the strongest of magicians, it's only fair to use this example on the clones). On the Remnant arc, the only useful thing they did was to get Touma's help, when Last Order was being pursued they were no where in sight.

There is nothing to suggest they have extensive combat skills beyond fighting Accelerator.... Even then they didn't do a good job.




Erm, I'm very certain a global nuclear winter would cause an even bigger deal than that current grand scheme.

With a great disaster in the world, Fiamma's Holy Right powers would be invincible again.




It's been bugging me for some time, don't you find it funny to judge the characters according to the only Aleister's plan? Like it's the only thing that matters? Therefore Hamazura is a completely worthless character right? Bardway serve no purpose right? Kanzaki is pointless right?
Where in the novels does Accelerator mention that? Kindly point me to it <.<

And second, they won't stand a chance against Hound Dog as an organisation simply because they have the higher ups backing = Capacity down, numbers, Anti-Esper equipment.

And you can't use Ollerus as an example. He defeated someone who is practically invulnerable in Academy City and has enough raw power to be considered the third strongest in Academy City discounting their ranking in terms of uses. Yes, Mikoto is only mid-tier power but she's far from being practical.

When Last Order was captured, she was unconscious for half the time. The other half, she found their saviour. They can't mobilize while being blind to their enemy's tactics or even strength in numbers but they do recognize Touma's strength. That's probably why they stayed out. In the remnant arc, the only sister shown was 10032 and she was smart enough not to chase Awaki when even Mikoto had trouble landing a hit on her. Instead, she went to the first person she knew could counter Awaki's power = Kamijou Touma.

Additionally, the sisters were close to unstoppable when they were sent to retrieve the Gemstones.

Yes, impractical to use in large numbers. What if it wasn't? We're talking about their their hypothetical strength and they can be effective when using those tactics. It didn't work on Accelerator because of his ability.

Try sniping Touma at a couple of hundred metres and he'll probably go down like a rock. Heck, try sniping at Mikoto and she'll probably go down if she doesn't react fast enough.

I don't judge characters by their usefulness or anything but to me it seems like you're handwaving their potential usefulness in combat, especially when they've demonstrated combat practicality and the ability to adapt which was honed while fighting an unstoppable juggernaut.
Drifting Wolf is offline  
Old 2011-08-08, 02:24   Link #12432
Chaos2Frozen
:)
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Moon that Wizard came from
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drifting Wolf View Post
Where in the novels does Accelerator mention that? Kindly point me to it <.<

Quote:
A sigh is heard from the other end of the phone receiver.

After some silence, the frog-faced doctor answers,

["There are about 10 of the Sisters undergoing adjustments. Do you think that the weapons used in the [Experiment], the Metal Eater MX anti-tank rifles and F2000R [Toy Soldier], will be suitable for them afterward?"]

Accelerator thinks for a bit,

And then shakes his head.

"With that extent they'll be eaten up completely. In the first place, the clones in their present state have no battle strength. It's flawless but probably futile. Can you evacuate all the staff and patients in your hospital?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drifting Wolf View Post
And second, they won't stand a chance against Hound Dog as an organisation simply because they have the higher ups backing = Capacity down, numbers, Anti-Esper equipment.
So in other words, the sisters are inferior to Hound Dogs as an organization,



Quote:
Originally Posted by Drifting Wolf View Post
And you can't use Ollerus as an example. He defeated someone who is practically invulnerable in Academy City and has enough raw power to be considered the third strongest in Academy City discounting their ranking in terms of uses. Yes, Mikoto is only mid-tier power but she's far from being practical.
Why not? Everybody's been saying how useless Mikoto would be against the stronger magicians, well in this case we have concrete proof that the clones are also useless against stronger magicians.

The Magic side isn't going to attack them with an army of Stiyls you know.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Drifting Wolf View Post
When Last Order was captured, she was unconscious for half the time. The other half, she found their saviour. They can't mobilize while being blind to their enemy's tactics or even strength in numbers but they do recognize Touma's strength. That's probably why they stayed out. In the remnant arc, the only sister shown was 10032 and she was smart enough not to chase Awaki when even Mikoto had trouble landing a hit on her. Instead, she went to the first person she knew could counter Awaki's power = Kamijou Touma.

In other words circumstances prevented them from being useful, not all that different from Mikoto.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Drifting Wolf View Post
Additionally, the sisters were close to unstoppable when they were sent to retrieve the Gemstones.
And Mikoto stopped a Nuclear disaster, but nobody seem to think it's important either.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Drifting Wolf View Post
Yes, impractical to use in large numbers. What if it wasn't? We're talking about their their hypothetical strength and they can be effective when using those tactics. It didn't work on Accelerator because of his ability.

Try sniping Touma at a couple of hundred metres and he'll probably go down like a rock. Heck, try sniping at Mikoto and she'll probably go down if she doesn't react fast enough.
If you want to talk about Hypothetical strength I can have Mikoto create a wall of iron sand 24/7, or a district wide electromagnetic jammer to mess with the Network like how it screwed with the Russian Imouto.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drifting Wolf View Post
I don't judge characters by their usefulness or anything but to me it seems like you're handwaving their potential usefulness in combat, especially when they've demonstrated combat practicality and the ability to adapt which was honed while fighting an unstoppable juggernaut.
And you're doing the opposite, you're using the best case scenario to support your argument.
Chaos2Frozen is online now  
Old 2011-08-08, 02:36   Link #12433
leukrota
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Erm, I'm very certain a global nuclear winter would cause an even bigger deal than that current grand scheme.

With a great disaster in the world, Fiamma's Holy Right powers would be invincible again.
Good point, I had forgotten about the core of Fiamma's plan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
It's been bugging me for some time, don't you find it funny to judge the characters according to the only Aleister's plan? Like it's the only thing that matters? Therefore Hamazura is a completely worthless character right? Bardway serve no purpose right? Kanzaki is pointless right?
I'm not saying that Aleister's plan is the only relevant part of the main plot, it's just a convenient reference.

Even if I did say so (which I don't), Hamazura wouldn't be worthless as he's been destabilizing that plan after all. Any force that either helps it or impedes it is important to the plot.

Anyway, with your last point, I'll admit that Mikoto has indeed played an important role for the main story beyond her blood, by preventing Fiamma from growing stronger... Now that I think about it, distracting the hound dogs back on Vento's invasion may also count, although that contribution is easier to disregard.
leukrota is offline  
Old 2011-08-08, 02:41   Link #12434
Drifting Wolf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
*Shrugs*

Maybe I am.

But you're not giving them due credit either. Just saying. Not trying to raise a storm in this thread or anything but when Accelerator gives a comment on battle strength, it has usually been on a skewed side. To him, everything but Kamijou Touma, Aiwass and FUSE=Kazakiri are weak and only because they clashed with him and he couldn't one-shot them.

Yes, I am aware that the Imouto's by far, are considered pathetically weak. Ok, granted, their usefulness has been limited and they have not shown any feats. Fine. But since you went through NS, I am thoroughly disappointed that you would consider these girls, who have undergone military training, shook off a teleporter hot on their heels and have been trained to operate various machines as pathetic as well.

As an organisation of ten girls, they would be weak. But with proper tactics and the equipment, I daresay that they can take down most magicians with ease. Or at least, Magicians below Saint level.

I'm not here to raise shitstorms, like I said, I'm just putting out the 'If their CIS was turned off' kind of thing out here. And in real life, you know how brutally effective hardcore military tactics can be.
Drifting Wolf is offline  
Old 2011-08-08, 02:43   Link #12435
leukrota
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Why not? Everybody's been saying how useless Mikoto would be against the stronger magicians, well in this case we have concrete proof that the clones are also useless against stronger magicians.

The Magic side isn't going to attack them with an army of Stiyls you know.
In the clones' defense, even if they themselves can't do much against magicians, providing the vital network for Kazakiri to mobilize can make a huge impact. Without the sisters, she would be restricted to Academy City.
leukrota is offline  
Old 2011-08-08, 02:45   Link #12436
Okashira
Honos628
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Chile
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Quote:
["There are about 10 of the Sisters undergoing adjustments. Do you think that the weapons used in the [Experiment], the Metal Eater MX anti-tank rifles and F2000R [Toy Soldier], will be suitable for them afterward?"]
So in other words, the sisters are inferior to Hound Dogs as an organization,
You are only using to the fullest facts that fit your explanation and then not giving any thought to the rest. It was clearly stated in volume 8 that the sisters practically couldn't move at all because they were undergoing treatments for their life spawn extension. By that single line alone you can tell that they are still in that state, thus they aren't a combat force against anyone at the time.

I admit that probably a fully geared hound dog "is worth more" than a fully geared sister, but that does not erase the fact that they do have military training inserted into them by the testament and their are at their finest condition. The hound dogs are supposed to be "the top" from the shady underground military forces, since they are acting for Aleister benefit after all.
__________________
Now sponsoring : video game analogies (ES)
Last update : Chapter 25 as of 31/08/12
Okashira is online now  
Old 2011-08-08, 02:46   Link #12437
Drifting Wolf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Okashira View Post
You are only using to the fullest facts that fit your explanation and then not giving any thought to the rest. It was clearly stated in volume 8 that the sisters practically couldn't move at all because they were undergoing treatments for their life spawn extension. By that single line alone you can tell that they are still in that state, thus they aren't a combat force against anyone at the time.

I admit that probably a fully geared hound dog "is worth more" than a fully geared sister, but that does not erase the fact that they do have military training inserted into them by the testament and their are at their finest condition. The hound dogs are supposed to be "the top" from the shady underground military forces, since they are acting for Aleister benefit after all.
Thank you, I knew I was missing out something.
Drifting Wolf is offline  
Old 2011-08-08, 02:50   Link #12438
leukrota
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drifting Wolf View Post
I'm not here to raise shitstorms, like I said, I'm just putting out the 'If their CIS was turned off' kind of thing out here. And in real life, you know how brutally effective hardcore military tactics can be.
Not just in real world, in the Toaru verse, Hamazura has proven that tactics are more relevant that raw power.

(... LOL, now it's raining on Chaos2Frozen...)
leukrota is offline  
Old 2011-08-08, 03:11   Link #12439
Chaos2Frozen
:)
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Moon that Wizard came from
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Okashira View Post
You are only using to the fullest facts that fit your explanation and then not giving any thought to the rest. It was clearly stated in volume 8 that the sisters practically couldn't move at all because they were undergoing treatments for their life spawn extension. By that single line alone you can tell that they are still in that state, thus they aren't a combat force against anyone at the time.
And you my friend, are taking my words out of context.

The first sentence was a quote that Wolf wanted me to point out where Accelerator said the Imoutos would lose out to Hound Dog.

The second sentence was a reply to him when he said that "they won't stand a chance against Hound Dog as an organisation simply because they have the higher ups backing = Capacity down, numbers, Anti-Esper equipment."

So if that's not call being an inferior organization, then what is? Performance? They don't really have alot to show either.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Okashira View Post
I admit that probably a fully geared hound dog "is worth more" than a fully geared sister, but that does not erase the fact that they do have military training inserted into them by the testament and their are at their finest condition. The hound dogs are supposed to be "the top" from the shady underground military forces, since they are acting for Aleister benefit after all.
Oh I just love these best case scenarios


Quote:
Originally Posted by Drifting Wolf View Post
*Shrugs*

Maybe I am.

But you're not giving them due credit either. Just saying. Not trying to raise a storm in this thread or anything but when Accelerator gives a comment on battle strength, it has usually been on a skewed side. To him, everything but Kamijou Touma, Aiwass and FUSE=Kazakiri are weak and only because they clashed with him and he couldn't one-shot them.
Fine, Accelerator's opinion is not the best of judgment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drifting Wolf View Post
Yes, I am aware that the Imouto's by far, are considered pathetically weak. Ok, granted, their usefulness has been limited and they have not shown any feats. Fine. But since you went through NS, I am thoroughly disappointed that you would consider these girls, who have undergone military training, shook off a teleporter hot on their heels and have been trained to operate various machines as pathetic as well.

As an organisation of ten girls, they would be weak. But with proper tactics and the equipment, I daresay that they can take down most magicians with ease. Or at least, Magicians below Saint level.

I'm not here to raise shitstorms, like I said, I'm just putting out the 'If their CIS was turned off' kind of thing out here. And in real life, you know how brutally effective hardcore military tactics can be.
My argument was never that they were pathetic, my argument was that they're not in a better position importance-wise than Mikoto aside from what they're doing by simply existing.

It's because I was in NS (though I wasn't exactly drilled heavily in Urban warfare) that I know that you can't just throw down the word 'tactics' on the table and expect that it's an ace card that you can use to win in every situation. Tactics is a complicating organism that requires many things to go right and only need one thing to go wrong.

And your argument is that given the best of everything (equipment and Training etc) the Imoutos can take on the best of magicians, again you're using the best case scenario but Okay, I can accept that- So if I give Anti-Skill the best of everything, so if I give Hound Dog the best of everything, if I give Mikoto the best of everything...

The problem with using potential as an argument is that everybody has potential, as long as they have the best of everything, or as long as they don't do anything.
Chaos2Frozen is online now  
Old 2011-08-08, 03:25   Link #12440
Drifting Wolf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
And you my friend, are taking my words out of context.

The first sentence was a quote that Wolf wanted me to point out where Accelerator said the Imoutos would lose out to Hound Dog.

The second sentence was a reply to him when he said that "they won't stand a chance against Hound Dog as an organisation simply because they have the higher ups backing = Capacity down, numbers, Anti-Esper equipment."

So if that's not call being an inferior organization, then what is? Performance? They don't really have alot to show either.




Oh I just love these best case scenarios




Fine, Accelerator's opinion is not the best of judgment.



My argument was never that they were pathetic, my argument was that they're not in a better position importance-wise than Mikoto aside from what they're doing by simply existing.

It's because I was in NS (though I wasn't exactly drilled heavily in Urban warfare) that I know that you can't just throw down the word 'tactics' on the table and expect that it's an ace card that you can use to win in every situation. Tactics is a complicating organism that requires many things to go right and only need one thing to go wrong.

And your argument is that given the best of everything (equipment and Training etc) the Imoutos can take on the best of magicians, again you're using the best case scenario but Okay, I can accept that- So if I give Anti-Skill the best of everything, so if I give Hound Dog the best of everything, if I give Mikoto the best of everything...

The problem with using potential as an argument is that everybody has potential, as long as they have the best of everything, or as long as they don't do anything.
But they do have the training and they have shown to use tactics that would have been considered pretty smart.

To elaborate - The Imoutou's can - Pilot tanks, aircrafts, cars, etc. Assemble and accurately use a sniper rifle and a submachine gun.

10032 was able to shake off Kuroko who was in her 'chase Onee-sama' mode and did so pretty handily.

The Misaka Sisters all devised workable tactics and continually pushed what they could do to overcome 'Vector Change'. They did not use half-baked attacks. They were practical and always knew when they had lost. 10032 has this in spades. When not able, she asked for help instead of fighting a losing battle. Yes, I know the part about Touma vs Accelerator is a point against that but that was because she was still part of the experiment and knew nothing about him.

Additionally, she lasted the longest against Accelerator and actually gave Accelerator a run for his money.

The Misaka in Russia devised appropriate tactics to counterattack against the military personnel there, stole one of their tanks and used Misaka Mikoto as the battering ram in every possible scenario.

The Hound Dogs... tried to ram a car into Accelerator. Despite knowing what Acceleator's ability was. And lost to Accelerator in psychological warfare and ended up being slaughtered. They did even WORSE against Accelerator and as a group with Kihara Amata leading them at that.

Compared to that, yeah, I'd say the SISTERS definitely have what it takes to go up against them. Just not as an organisation. Unless you add them all into the equation.

I'm not saying give them the best of everything. Give them what they had - the Skills, the adaptability they showed when facing Accelerator and the weapons they deployed against him. The tactics also come into factor because they primarily used 'tactics' against Accelerator.

Yes, I understand how fragile 'tactics' and 'strategy' can be. But it's precisely because they've shown to be completely and utterly practical (and sometimes, even effective) in their execution that I consider the Misaka clones primarily based on tactics.

And while they lost and lost badly, they lost against two of the most broken people in history from both sides. I can deal with that.

What I don't agree with is the fact that you think the SISTERS have not been putting up a show - When they have and I respect their tenacity for it. In my humble opinion, they are merely Overshadowed by Awesome.
Drifting Wolf is offline  
Closed Thread

Tags
action, dengeki bunko, fantasy, light novels, science fiction, shounen

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 16:43.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.