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Old 2011-08-24, 14:08   Link #13621
leukrota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
So yeah, I can accept that powerful Espers like the Level 5s only appeared like half a decade ago (Accelerator), but eventually everybody grows up- and when that happens the population ratio of 80% students would change.
In Railgun SS, Olive Holiday addressed a related issue:
Quote:
“I’m sure you are not planning anything so childish. However, Japan’s Academy City is said to have technology 20 or 30 years ahead of the rest of the world. Do you understand what that means? In just 20 or 30 years, the entire world could be like that.”

“…”

“Psychic powers are no exception. Seven Level 5s have appeared within Academy City, but if espers spread to entire population of 6 billion, how many monsters do you think will be on the loose? Doesn’t it seem like a new age of wars will begin that cannot be controlled by monitoring the circulation of guns and other weapons?”
Although Esper tech is a critical development beyond the 20-30 years, it wouldn't be strange if sooner or later, that tech is leaked to the world, especially if there's going to be loads of graduated espers.

Still, I'm betting this is a non issue for Aleister, perhaps his plan will change the world so much that this won't matter in the slightest, so maybe he doesn't really have a plan for the grown up espers.

On the other hand, there's gotta be at least some adult espers around, even if they are low tiers, I wonder where are they... So far, we've only seen Telestina, though for an unknown reason she's powerless (maybe she was a level 0 from start.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Okashira View Post
What Rikou can do what already explained in vol 15. Also Rikou was part of an experiment for overloading abilities, that doesn't mean that it's "that" same experiment for child errors that ended up in disaster.
Except it wasn't a disaster from Kihara's point of view, as they had collected a good amount of data, Body Clear is an advancement made on that (and perhaps some more experiments.)
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Old 2011-08-24, 15:41   Link #13622
ovum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leukrota View Post
Still, I'm betting this is a non issue for Aleister, perhaps his plan will change the world so much that this won't matter in the slightest, so maybe he doesn't really have a plan for the grown up espers.
I think populate the world with all esper is one of Aleister goals seeing as the real world Aleister believed that the world exists in different ages. The first age was worship of mother earth and the nature. The second age was suffering and sacrifice which I.E worship of Jesus who sacrificed himself to save mankind. And the third age which was the realization of humans and themselves would become gods. According to Aleister the third age began when he wrote Liber al vegis.

And magic in the toaruverse is projection of legends and fairy tales and being an esper prevents people from using magic basically means that worship of christanity would end if espers where to spread to the rest of the world. Also it seems he can suppress magic usage with the help of the AIM diffusion field as seen in the anime when Vento tried to assault the city.

Which brings me to an interesting question is the power that Touma used to crush the power that resides inside of him and regenerate his arm higher than the aeon of horus?

Spoiler for Real world theory about the fourth age:

Found that from googling aeon of horus.^^
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Old 2011-08-24, 16:57   Link #13623
Miraluka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovum View Post
I think populate the world with all esper is one of Aleister goals seeing as the real world Aleister believed that the world exists in different ages. The first age was worship of mother earth and the nature. The second age was suffering and sacrifice which I.E worship of Jesus who sacrificed himself to save mankind. And the third age which was the realization of humans and themselves would become gods. According to Aleister the third age began when he wrote Liber al vegis.
Aleister doesn't cares about the world, he only cares about Academy City because it is a small version of the world.

Also:
Quote:
“My theory is that the age of Christian spells came to an end upon the completion of the Book of the Law. I actually think you did quite well. And that includes your objective of becoming the One Above God. If instead of the Aeon of Osiris…that is, the laws under the control of solely the Christian Church, you had formatted it in the Aeon of Horus that lies beyond it, you may have had your eye on a position similar to mine.”
The Book of Law only put an end to the christian spells era, but even Fiamma of the Right who was supposed to be bound by the chrisitanism influence from the laws of Osiris Age broke thar ser of rules.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ovum View Post
And magic in the toaruverse is projection of legends and fairy tales and being an esper prevents people from using magic basically means that worship of christanity would end if espers where to spread to the rest of the world. Also it seems he can suppress magic usage with the help of the AIM diffusion field as seen in the anime when Vento tried to assault the city.
Even if espers start to spread in the world there will be people with no talent somewhere and that will lead them to become magicians. With the end of the christian spells era (albeit not the christianism as a whole ) means a new magic era will arise, something which seems to have already started with the end of the war.

Quote:
“His (Fiamma's) ideas went beyond the rules of Christianity.”
Quote:
“He was the leader of God’s Right Seat, the true dark side of the Roman Catholic Church, but he was a heretic. Unlike the other members, he alone did not take actions within the category of Christianity.”
Quote:
“…That’s right, Aleister. During World War III, the ‘old’ rules were removed from this world. And that includes the ones you controlled. The second death. Kamijou Touma’s error. Uncontrollable expectations of what will occur in the future. Doesn’t the world just seem like so much fun today? You should take satisfaction in this, too. Take satisfaction in this confusion where people move around freely and you therefore cannot be sure where things are headed.”
The only one who was changing the rules of the world during the WW3 in order to save it was Fiamma.
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Old 2011-08-24, 17:01   Link #13624
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Aleister doesn't cares about the world, he only cares about Academy City because it is a small version of the world.
And in order to protect his city, he would need to care about the rest of the World to some extend.

Academy City cannot survive on it's own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Okashira View Post
Didn't Aiwass said underhandedly that Accelerator was the first ESPer to show up in the last 50 years that fulfills Aleister's expectations in Academy City?
No, he said 50 years since he created this eccentric city.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leukrota View Post
Although Esper tech is a critical development beyond the 20-30 years, it wouldn't be strange if sooner or later, that tech is leaked to the world, especially if there's going to be loads of graduated espers.

Still, I'm betting this is a non issue for Aleister, perhaps his plan will change the world so much that this won't matter in the slightest, so maybe he doesn't really have a plan for the grown up espers.

On the other hand, there's gotta be at least some adult espers around, even if they are low tiers, I wonder where are they... So far, we've only seen Telestina, though for an unknown reason she's powerless (maybe she was a level 0 from start.)

The day that Esper technology becomes available outside the city, the first people who would use it are the military around the world to development super soldiers but this would be crappy Level 1s and 2s. They would still request assistance in tactics to fight other espers and such from Academy City.

The day the Esper technology becames available to the public, we'll going to have protests and demonstrations to reject that, especially in America lol. The medical centers would be firebombed and they would spend years debating this issue.

And if every the technology gets accepted world wide, there still exist techniques and methods to monitor and control Espers that Academy City had developed which would most likely be use by the world governments. But by that time, Academy City would still be creating the strongest Espers around.
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Old 2011-08-24, 17:15   Link #13625
Miraluka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
And in order to protect his city, he would need to care about the rest of the World to some extend.

Academy City cannot survive on it's own.
The world was on a crisis, was about to say good by to Eurasia thanks to Fiamma and was about sink down in the ocean thanks to Gabriel yet Aleister did nothing, the world is far to be his priority or maybe Aleister is a total coward.

Acadamy City is above the world by 20-30 years and its was mentioned before that they can produce their own matterial.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiamma of the Right
“When I see you, I can feel the futility of what I did. Most likely, I had that same look on my face. And someone who can truly save the world would not have that expression on his face. ...At that time and in that place, he stood in a position where no one could overtake him.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
No, he said 50 years since he created this eccentric city.
Its true, when Aiwass talks about Accelerator means by first succesful esper after 50 years.

Quote:
“Oh, right. About the #1 you have finally succeeded in bringing about after spending more than 50 years creating this eccentric city…”
“Is this about him not having proceeded as you expected?”
“Well, you can still make that fit within the acceptable margin of error, right?”
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Old 2011-08-24, 17:27   Link #13626
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
The world was on a crisis, was about to say good by to Eurasia thanks to Fiamma and was about sink down in the ocean thanks to Gabriel yet Aleister did nothing, the world is far to be his priority or maybe Aleister is a total coward.

Acadamy City is above the world by 20-30 years and its was mentioned before that they can produce their own matterial.
Or maybe that's what Touma and Accelerator were for Or you know, there was nothing he could do about it? Aleister blinds you with his illusion of omnipotent but we all know that every trick in the book has a catch. If Aleister could do everything, then everything would be done already.


And If Academy City was truly self sufficient they wouldn't need to rely on relationships with other countries, even if they can create their own materials they would still eventually run out of the basic stuff like raw metal and food... You don't think a couple of rooftop gardens is really going to feed 2.3 million people? Without help from outside nations, they wouldn't be able to conduct research outside the City, and eventually they'll run out of space.

And this is not even talking about the political context.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Its true, when Aiwass talks about Accelerator means by first successful esper after 50 years.
Erm no, Accelerator is the first Esper that fits his plan, 'Successful' is a very vague word.

Last edited by Chaos2Frozen; 2011-08-24 at 17:49.
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Old 2011-08-24, 17:34   Link #13627
leukrota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Acadamy City is above the world by 20-30 years and its was mentioned before that they can produce their own matterial.
Academy City sells downgraded tech (military and civilian) for a reason, I don't think they are self sufficient.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiamma of the Right
“When I see you, I can feel the futility of what I did. Most likely, I had that same look on my face. And someone who can truly save the world would not have that expression on his face. ...At that time and in that place, he stood in a position where no one could overtake him.”
ROFL... that took me by surprise, I didn't know Fiamma used forums...

Last edited by leukrota; 2011-08-24 at 17:35. Reason: lapsus linguae
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Old 2011-08-24, 17:53   Link #13628
Kuroi Hadou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Erm no, Accelerator is the first Esper that fits his plan, 'Successful' is a very vague word.
Actually it wouldn't surprise me if Accelerator was the first confirmed Level 5.
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Old 2011-08-24, 20:07   Link #13629
Hiro Hayase
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Spoiler for Railgun SS:


This line really does make one wonder such a scenario. So it's a general consensus for all of us that the higher tier espers like level 5 were very recently. All of us here can agree on this point, no?

I wouldn't put it past Aleister if he's secretly developing anti-esper weaponry that could potentially nullify their abilities based on observing Touma's Imagine breaker or another method that cancels AIM based powers. It's already confirmed that Full-Tuning and other Misaka WORST are yet to be unveiled.

I can understand if Accelerator was the very first lever 5 discovered since many of Academy City's esper ability enhancement projects use him as the base like the Dark May Project.

Although Academy City is self-sufficient in many areas, it still needs to bring in raw materials from the outside.
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Old 2011-08-24, 20:19   Link #13630
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro Hayase View Post
This line really does make one wonder such a scenario. So it's a general consensus for all of us that the higher tier espers like level 5 were very recently. All of us here can agree on this point, no?
I have no problem with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro Hayase View Post
I wouldn't put it past Aleister if he's secretly developing anti-esper weaponry that could potentially nullify their abilities based on observing Touma's Imagine breaker or another method that cancels AIM based powers. It's already confirmed that Full-Tuning and other Misaka WORST are yet to be unveiled.
There's no need for something that complicating, Academy City already have a whole range of counter-Esper technology like [Capacity-Down] otherwise they wouldn't be able to maintain order in the city and end up like Rapture...
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Old 2011-08-24, 20:38   Link #13631
Flere821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Kyon View Post
Btw, what the hell does "Marmotte" mean? I'm French, and it's just an oversized squirrel. Sure it's translated right?
The Chinese version has the kanji for it as 'test/experimental subject'.
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Old 2011-08-24, 20:41   Link #13632
leukrota
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^ Then the translator probably meant "guinea pig" instead of "marmotte"
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Old 2011-08-24, 20:43   Link #13633
Flere821
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Originally Posted by leukrota View Post
^ Then the translator probably meant "guinea pig" instead of "marmotte"
No, even the Chinese version had 'Marmotte' in English instead of 'guinea pig', like how they have 'Child Error', 'Teleport' etc. They didn't mean 'guinea pig'.
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Old 2011-08-24, 20:47   Link #13634
leukrota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flere821 View Post
No, even the Chinese version had 'Marmotte' in English instead of 'guinea pig', like how they have 'Child Error', 'Teleport' etc. They didn't mean 'guinea pig'.
But 'Marmotte' doesn't even exist in English.
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Old 2011-08-24, 20:50   Link #13635
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But marmot does.
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Old 2011-08-24, 21:00   Link #13636
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*1, 38,680 197,282 Toaru Majutsu no Index: New Testament vol.2
*2, 32,850 *32,850 Full Metal Panic! Short Stories vol.9
*3, 28,380 *28,380 Full Metal Panic! Another vol.1
*4, 28,001 114,428 Durarara!! vol.10
*5, 19,698 *19,698 Chrome Shelled Regios vol.18
*6, 15,212 *86,778 Sword Art Online vol.8
*7, 12,665 363,408 Toshokan Sensou vol.1 Small Size Edition
*8, 12,132 151,270 Toshokan Sensou vol.5 Small Size Edition
*9, 11,315 *45,126 Mahoka Koko no Retosei vol.2 Part 2
10, 11,210 *71,228 Toaru Majutsu no Index SP Short Stories
11, 11,103 *11,103 Date A Live vol.2
12, 10,825 *10,825 Tsumasaki wa Amaku Michiteiru
13, *8,989 *43,356 Golden Time vol.3
14, *8,887 252,694 Toshokan Sensou vol.2 Small Size Edition
15, *8,787 190,243 Toshokan Sensou vol.4 Small Size Edition
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Old 2011-08-24, 21:07   Link #13637
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Which reminds me, in the hype of NT2 I've nearly forgotten that Index II vol. 7 is out already...

Quote:
Originally Posted by I_am_Kami View Post
Light Novels
*1, 38,680 197,282 Toaru Majutsu no Index: New Testament vol.2
*2, 32,850 *32,850 Full Metal Panic! Short Stories vol.9
*3, 28,380 *28,380 Full Metal Panic! Another vol.1
*4, 28,001 114,428 Durarara!! vol.10
*5, 19,698 *19,698 Chrome Shelled Regios vol.18
*6, 15,212 *86,778 Sword Art Online vol.8
*7, 12,665 363,408 Toshokan Sensou vol.1 Small Size Edition
*8, 12,132 151,270 Toshokan Sensou vol.5 Small Size Edition
*9, 11,315 *45,126 Mahoka Koko no Retosei vol.2 Part 2
10, 11,210 *71,228 Toaru Majutsu no Index SP Short Stories
11, 11,103 *11,103 Date A Live vol.2
12, 10,825 *10,825 Tsumasaki wa Amaku Michiteiru
13, *8,989 *43,356 Golden Time vol.3
14, *8,887 252,694 Toshokan Sensou vol.2 Small Size Edition
15, *8,787 190,243 Toshokan Sensou vol.4 Small Size Edition
COME ON New Testament! Just 150000 more to over throw Haruhi ! [/longshot]

SAO seem to drop bellow the 100k mark... Or was it always like that ?

Oh yeah... FMP is having another LN series huh... Mah, it's not like I follow the story... Looks like both that and CSR aren't doing so well... [/relative]
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Old 2011-08-24, 21:09   Link #13638
leukrota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
But marmot does.
Then the translation should at least be "marmot" (even though that animal is not used in scientific research)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
COME ON New Testament! Just 150000 more to over throw Haruhi ! [/longshot]
LOL, it is a longshot at this point.
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Old 2011-08-24, 21:23   Link #13639
Okashira
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leukrota View Post
Then the translation should at least be "marmot" (even though that animal is not used in scientific research)
It's just there as a manner of example, I think I remember Mikoto using that the sisters where killed like marmots as well; for that case it just goes to explain a "sacrificial animal" that gets offed for no reason at all and with no chance to fight back and in this case for the sake of "studies".

That example shows a lot in "literature", but I think that it doesn't show up that often on engrish. I remember many japanese works having using it since long ago, those kind of things always strike my attention since different cultures uses different animals for that example.
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Old 2011-08-24, 21:34   Link #13640
leukrota
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I wonder...

I don't have the original novels, but I looked this up:

If the original version says: モルモット (morumotto) then that translates as "guinea pig" in English, not "marmot", which is マーモット (maamotto)

Given these words, a mistranslation would be easy.

"Sacrificial animal" would probably work fine, as it retains the meaning.
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