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Old 2011-11-18, 13:48   Link #14761
judasmartel
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It's just that Esper powers are way much cooler than magic, so much that Esper powers get MOAR screentime while magic spells don't get explained that much.

Power-wise, tho, if you count Ollerus curbstomping Gunha...

And there's the great Kaori vs. Mikoto duel debate.
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Old 2011-11-18, 13:51   Link #14762
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Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
It's just that Esper powers are way much cooler than magic, so much that Esper powers get MOAR screentime while magic spells don't get explained that much.
God's Right Seat would like to have a word with you.
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Old 2011-11-18, 14:06   Link #14763
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God's Right Seat would like to have a word with you.
Don't forget Birdway and Saints eats magicians for breakfast.
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Old 2011-11-18, 14:14   Link #14764
Breidaluk
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They explain magic very well. At least that's what I think. The problem is to find the information written in the novels.
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Old 2011-11-18, 14:17   Link #14765
judasmartel
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But I'm under the impression that only the GRS have the cool powers in the Magic Side, others are borderline boring compared to what espers can do with their abilities.

Great, Saints have Super Mode, but that's not as cool-looking as Electromaster or Vector Redirection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Don't forget Birdway and Saints eats magicians for breakfast.
Or did you mean Espers? Birdway curbstomped the Freshmen after all. And there's Ollerus pwning Gunha...

Last edited by judasmartel; 2011-11-18 at 14:23. Reason: Ninja'd.
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Old 2011-11-18, 14:26   Link #14766
Miraluka
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Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
But I'm under the impression that only the GRS have the cool powers in the Magic Side, others are borderline boring compared to what espers can do with their abilities.
Dragon Breath, EES, Curtana, Knight Leader's style, Seijin Kuzushi, etc.

Great, Saints have Super Mode, but that's not as cool-looking as Electromaster or Vector Redirection.[/QUOTE]
Not cool? To me it seems you didn't read vol. 4, 16, 18 and Norse Myth SS . Electric powers has been there since the anime industry begun so, isn't that cool to me.

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Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
Or did you mean Espers? Birdway curbstomped the Freshmen after all. And there's Ollerus pwning Gunha...
Read Styil's SS, when she appears, shit happens. Birdway never layed a finger on Freshmen.

You seriously need to read the novels.
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Old 2011-11-18, 14:28   Link #14767
judasmartel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Not cool? To me it seems you didn't read vol. 4, 16, 18 and Norse Myth SS . Electric powers has been there since the anime industry begun so, isn't that cool to me.


Read Styil's SS, when she appears, shit happens.
Yeah, I didn't mean Electric powers in general. I meant what Mikoto can do with her Electric powers that I find kewler than the Saints' Super Mode.

Or that I'm just got infected by some people's bias towards the Science side.
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Old 2011-11-18, 14:56   Link #14768
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Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
Yeah, I didn't mean Electric powers in general. I meant what Mikoto can do with her Electric powers that I find kewler than the Saints' Super Mode.

Or that I'm just got infected by some people's bias towards the Science side.
Electro-perception, Selective Magnetism, Electrical Field, Limited Technopath, most of her abilities just don't get played up when the Magic Side comes into play. The girl is the most powerful character within human range.

The rest are capable of fighting freaking angels.
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Old 2011-11-18, 15:10   Link #14769
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Great. More Magic vs ESP (in contrast with Magicians vs ESPers) debate?

Hmm....

How about this? If Deep Blood proves that vampires exist, what does the Imagine Breaker prove?
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Old 2011-11-18, 15:17   Link #14770
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How about this? If Deep Blood proves that vampires exist, what does the Imagine Breaker prove?
"Im sure you know."
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Old 2011-11-18, 19:40   Link #14771
Eratas123
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We can't gauge how strong magic is compared to esper abilities since they work on a fundamentally different way.

Magic - So far, Magic has been shown as the Manipulation of the elements like Stiyl does or Augmentation of one's body like the saints can do. It's also shown that Magic can cure things that science can't such as Last Order's sickness during the WW3 arc. Magic is more diverse in it's uses but is limited to how much you know.

Science - Esper powers run on the concept of Shrodingers box. Which means that by extending your personal reality, you can achieve near limitless potential. Accelerator managed to deflect Dark Matter (A substance that doesn't theoretically exist) by extending his personal reality to include it as a thing he can deflect. The difference shown is that Espers can only have one power at a time compared to magicians. Magicians could probably master multiple elements if they study enough but Espers are limited to the individual powers they posses. Espers are shown to be more creative with their single powers compared to Magicians who learn new one's.

Sorry for the rambling, it's probably full of mistakes anyway.
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Old 2011-11-18, 20:22   Link #14772
judasmartel
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Oh, so that's how I see it. Espers only have one hammer, but they are so creative in making ways to use their respective hammers that it doesn't matter. Accelerator can only reflect vectors away from him but look at what he can do with it.

He can create earthquakes with a stomp, he can create explosions from dust and oxygen in the air, he can create a ball of plasma (before he was "nerfed"), he can kill a person by reversing the flow of his blood, he can fly, and he can tank a nuke, all of these without breaking a sweat.

Mages on the other hand, as the above poster implied, can master all magic known to man given they are able to study that much. Regular mages have power over the elements, while Saints can buff their own bodies to gain access to Super Mode, i.e., Super Strength + Super Speed.

Fiamma's Holy Right. It can do anything that has something to do with the right hand. And it is one of the most broken superpowers in the ToAruVerse. He can level cities to the ground, he can instantly teleport, his attacks will always hit you no matter how you dodge it, he CAN perform One-Hit Kills, and most of all, he can conjure a Flaming Sword forty freakin' kilometers long! All of these Fiamma can do with just his right hand.

So, yeah, we can't really determine which one is better. After all, clashes between Magic and Science often come down to which sides capitalize on their advantages more effectively than the other guy.
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Old 2011-11-18, 20:38   Link #14773
ovum
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If it where to come to a full out war between espers and mages, the mages would win due to having a larger number of powerful members (roughly 20 saints, Ollerus, Index, Birdway, Laura etc etc) than academy city's 6 lvl 5s(can't really count Kakine when talking about combat strength) + probably some strong lvl4s. Assuming that some mage can figure out how to by pass Accelerator's vector change.
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Old 2011-11-18, 20:41   Link #14774
Eratas123
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@ judasmartel - The holy right seems to be another thing entirely. Aleister, Fiamma, Ollerus and the Imagine Breaker are near god level in terms of strength. We can't really determine how strong they are because their strength is variable. The Holy right can increase it's own power depending on what his enemy has while the Imagine breaker can deflect ANY attack so long as it's supernatural in nature. They can be beaten but you'd need to go to a lot of trouble to exploit any possible weakness they have.

Side note - Their biggest weakness is the most simple one: Cut off the limb from the body and the powers malfunction (The seal breaks for Imagine Breaker while the Holy Right doesn't work as effectively anymore)

@ Ovum - Not all the Saints are loyal to the Magic side. A lot of them fight each other for example.

Also, the personal Reality is near limitless in terms of scope. If Accelerator manages to extend his personal reality to include magic then he can deflect them (They already dissipated even when he didn't know about magic when Magicians attacked him in him in the WW3 arc)
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Old 2011-11-19, 00:42   Link #14775
tsunade666
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Originally Posted by ovum View Post
If it where to come to a full out war between espers and mages, the mages would win due to having a larger number of powerful members (roughly 20 saints, Ollerus, Index, Birdway, Laura etc etc) than academy city's 6 lvl 5s(can't really count Kakine when talking about combat strength) + probably some strong lvl4s. Assuming that some mage can figure out how to by pass Accelerator's vector change.
Aleister would probably like a word with you. He doesn't need silly brats that are spoiled by the society. He got his personal mechs and techs and even got artificial angel and guardian angel plus artificial heaven by his side.

Academy city has hax advantage as long as an enemy invade the city. If they fight outside the city then academy city would probably be doomed because artificial heaven isn't that big yet.
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Old 2011-11-19, 12:13   Link #14776
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Aleister would probably like a word with you. He doesn't need silly brats that are spoiled by the society. He got his personal mechs and techs and even got artificial angel and guardian angel plus artificial heaven by his side.

Academy city has hax advantage as long as an enemy invade the city. If they fight outside the city then academy city would probably be doomed because artificial heaven isn't that big yet.
Given the outcome of the war, I guess AH would have expanded quite a lot with the mass-influence of science into the world. Also, I bet that Academy City has more than enough firepower to blow the whole world up, seeing the firepower they sent to Russia. Of course, the magic side has OP people, but even they can't be all over the world at once when someone just needs to press a button. You'll probably need to be on Fiamma pre-beatdown level to match Academy City's full arsenal (including level 5s), and even then, Academy City has Aleister himself who could take practically any human on. And let's remember, there are three chessmasters left. Aleister, Laura and Birdway. Birdway's a little special case now since she's a wildcard that could go with Laura. However, Aleister probably has much more secrets in store than Laura or Birdway given that he practically rules over half the world. And when you have such diabolical plans like that, you definitely have things others don't know of.
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Old 2011-11-19, 12:58   Link #14777
Miraluka
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Given the outcome of the war, I guess AH would have expanded quite a lot with the mass-influence of science into the world. Also, I bet that Academy City has more than enough firepower to blow the whole world up, seeing the firepower they sent to Russia. Of course, the magic side has OP people, but even they can't be all over the world at once when someone just needs to press a button. You'll probably need to be on Fiamma pre-beatdown level to match Academy City's full arsenal (including level 5s), and even then, Academy City has Aleister himself who could take practically any human on. And let's remember, there are three chessmasters left. Aleister, Laura and Birdway. Birdway's a little special case now since she's a wildcard that could go with Laura. However, Aleister probably has much more secrets in store than Laura or Birdway given that he practically rules over half the world. And when you have such diabolical plans like that, you definitely have things others don't know of.
Alesiter has currently raw power, his influence met a big pit during the war as consequence of the Golden Heavens done by Fiamma to the point he doesn't dares to measures against Gremlin to defend AC from desctrucion or pick u Touma from A.O., Trollwass was right about Aleister being will weakling person.
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Old 2011-11-19, 13:01   Link #14778
Sleep_ping
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Alesiter has currently raw power, his influence met a big pit during the war as consequence of the Golden Heavens done by Fiamma to the point he doesn't dares to measures against Gremlin to defend AC from desctrucion or pick u Touma from A.O., Trollwass was right about Aleister being will weakling person.
Which of course is the only thing limiting him. Can you imagine what would happen if he just declared all out war without a care in the world?
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Old 2011-11-19, 13:49   Link #14779
Miraluka
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Which of course is the only thing limiting him. Can you imagine what would happen if he just declared all out war without a care in the world?
That will go against the very base of his being which is the efficience.
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Old 2011-11-19, 20:13   Link #14780
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That will go against the very base of his being which is the efficience.
The very base of his being is secrecy and massive trolling. Efficiency is a side-effect of those. Teh_Ping has a point though: Aleister utterly owned Fiamma, who very nearly owned the whole world. I shudder to think what would happen if he was openly and personally involved in a conflict.
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