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Old 2011-12-26, 18:12   Link #15781
Twi
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I wish he'd stop with the world police line, but this chapter showcases pretty well what happens when magic and science cooperate. They were basically dominating the battlefield until the Loli, her servant, and Accelerator showed up.
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Old 2011-12-26, 18:15   Link #15782
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twi View Post
They were basically dominating the battlefield until the Loli, her servant, and Accelerator showed up.
The Loli and Accelerator alone would probably have been enough to turn the tide.
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Old 2011-12-26, 18:19   Link #15783
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That is, until they both ran out of juice.
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Old 2011-12-26, 20:16   Link #15784
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Just read the updates

Birdway and Accelerator is tough enough to take on mercs and magicians combined. I wonder what would happen when Academy City used the full might of it's espers against one country...?
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Old 2011-12-26, 20:17   Link #15785
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Originally Posted by djmaca View Post
I wonder what would happen when Academy City used the full might of it's espers against one country...?
The problem there is that "the full might of its Espers" consists predominately of middle-schoolers more caught up in personal drama and conflicts than they are grudges against another country.
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Old 2011-12-26, 20:23   Link #15786
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Though if they REALLY REALLY want to, a clone-cyborg-esper-mecha army is not out of their reach.
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Old 2011-12-26, 20:25   Link #15787
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Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou View Post
The problem there is that "the full might of its Espers" consists predominately of middle-schoolers more caught up in personal drama and conflicts than they are grudges against another country.
If it leaked that Aleister used child soldiers, the parents would try to withdraw them. If he says "No", then other countries will use that as an excuse invade AC. Especially if what happened in the spoilers is true.

Besides, only Level 3 and up would be of any use, the rest would be fodder.
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Old 2011-12-26, 20:41   Link #15788
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Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou View Post
The problem there is that "the full might of its Espers" consists predominately of middle-schoolers more caught up in personal drama and conflicts than they are grudges against another country.
AC doesn't really consider espers to be part of the military force. The only times that they have endorsed as such was when Accelerator was used as "a bomb" (which, we all know he is special in Aleister's eyes) and when Mugino was used to catch the deserters from AC (which where technically level 0s and she was expected to self destruct herself, thus wasn't valued too highly).

So, even level 5s are treated of no use compared to actual forces that are trained from the dark side.
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Old 2011-12-26, 20:48   Link #15789
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AC doesn't really consider espers to be part of the military force. The only times that they have endorsed as such was when Accelerator was used as "a bomb" (which, we all know he is special in Aleister's eyes) and when Mugino was used to catch the deserters from AC (which where technically level 0s and she was expected to self destruct herself, thus wasn't valued too highly).

So, even level 5s are treated of no use compared to actual forces that are trained from the dark side.
Hmmm I wouldn't say they're no use, but they're certainly harder to control and predict- Nuclear bombs have their uses, but people don't throw them out all the time.

Officially the can't allow Esper into their regular force which is suppose to consist of only Anti-Skill, off the records though... That's what clones are for.
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Old 2011-12-26, 22:32   Link #15790
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Hmmm I wouldn't say they're no use, but they're certainly harder to control and predict- Nuclear bombs have their uses, but people don't throw them out all the time.

Officially the can't allow Esper into their regular force which is suppose to consist of only Anti-Skill, off the records though... That's what clones are for.
Oh I get it! But why didn't they clone Accelerator, Dark Matter or Meltdowner, and just cloned Railgun?
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Old 2011-12-26, 22:39   Link #15791
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Originally Posted by djmaca View Post
Oh I get it! But why didn't they clone Accelerator, Dark Matter or Meltdowner, and just cloned Railgun?
Probably because those three are highly unstable individuals and are far more likely to unleash unholy hell on Academy City if they tried that.
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Old 2011-12-26, 22:39   Link #15792
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Oh I get it! But why didn't they clone Accelerator, Dark Matter or Meltdowner, and just cloned Railgun?
Well, consider the following:

1. Accelerator: A walking existence of doom who took a long time to get his abilities under control.

2. Dark Matter: Ruthless and cocky, also possible that he had trouble controlling his power in his youth

3. Meltdowner: An arrogant ojou-sama who would rather look down on people than help them out.


Mikoto was the only one who had the personality and the type of ability that would allow the collection of the genetic material necessary for the cloning.
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Old 2011-12-26, 22:40   Link #15793
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Oh I get it! But why didn't they clone Accelerator, Dark Matter or Meltdowner, and just cloned Railgun?
Official confirmed reason for cloning Railgun is to make use of her electro-telepathy-thingy to cover the world with AIM field because they would all be interconnected. So in the first place they weren't meant as soldiers or as pure experiments.

Personally, I think the reason why they don't is because it's going to be much harder to control an army of Accelerator and Dark Matter should they revolt. And Meltdowner has less versatility than Electromaster so she's out of the consideration.

But like I've said, we haven't been given any real physical reason for not cloning Accelerator and Dark Matter, originally we thought it was because you can't make copies of their unique powers, but that turned out to be false. But now rather than cloning Dark Matter, they would just use him to create Dark Matter weapons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou View Post
Probably because those three are highly unstable individuals and are far more likely to unleash unholy hell on Academy City if they tried that.
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Mikoto was the only one who had the personality and the type of ability that would allow the collection of the genetic material necessary for the cloning.
It's easy to think that, but the personalities of the original has no real effects on the copies; the imoutos behave nothing like Mikoto.

And not to mention Worst.

So there's nothing to say that the clones of Accelerator would think like Accelerator... Unless you count Mayday of Darkness.
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Old 2011-12-26, 22:44   Link #15794
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There is also the thing with Radio Noise which, as I understand, can only be used by Electro-masters: Network is essential here as clones are like babies when they are created and it is thanks to the Network that clones can actually be useful immediately. Else, you would need years of tutelage for every clone and that would make all this more expensive than it is worth it.
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Old 2011-12-26, 22:44   Link #15795
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
It's easy to think that, but the personalities of the original has no real effects on the copies; the imoutos behave nothing like Mikoto.

And not to mention Worst.

So there's nothing to say that the clones of Accelerator would think like Accelerator.
It's not the personality's effect on the clones: Rather, it's about whether Mikoto would have helped out when given the choice. In the case of Mugino, it's likely she would have just gone under a "let them suffer" kind of attitude, while Mikoto was perfectly willing to help out. Hence, the personality of the original in relation to the willingness to provide the genetic material was important. For all the importance of the specific ability, if Mikoto was like Mugino, we wouldn't be seeing the clones.
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Old 2011-12-26, 22:47   Link #15796
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
It's not the personality's effect on the clones: Rather, it's about whether Mikoto would have helped out when given the choice. In the case of Mugino, it's likely she would have just gone under a "let them suffer" kind of attitude, while Mikoto was perfectly willing to help out. Hence, the personality of the original in relation to the willingness to provide the genetic material was important.

Wait what? How does the willingness to provide the genetic material affects anything when DNA is DNA?
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Old 2011-12-26, 22:55   Link #15797
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Wait what? How does the willingness to provide the genetic material affects anything when DNA is DNA?
The genetic material needs to be gathered in sufficient amounts to proceed with a large scale manufacturing. Given the limits of technology (even with AC's head start), I suspect that a large donation of blood, hair, and other such things are needed. Given this context, the only way short of force to get such materials without consent would be during surgery, and there seems to be no indication that the Level 5s have undergone such a thing.

All the stories of making a clone from a few drops of blood would be impossible without massive use of replicators, under which there might be large degradation of the genetic materials. It's both easier and safer to just get the material directly from the source in sufficient amounts under the pretext of needing the material to help others.
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Old 2011-12-26, 23:01   Link #15798
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The genetic material needs to be gathered in sufficient amounts to proceed with a large scale manufacturing. Given the limits of technology (even with AC's head start), I suspect that a large donation of blood, hair, and other such things are needed. Given this context, the only way short of force to get such materials without consent would be during surgery, and there seems to be no indication that the Level 5s have undergone such a thing.

All the stories of making a clone from a few drops of blood would be impossible without massive use of replicators, under which there might be large degradation of the genetic materials. It's both easier and safer to just get the material directly from the source in sufficient amounts under the pretext of needing the material to help others.

Okay fair point, but you're forgetting that Espers get experiment on all the time- while not the strap to the table invasive type, there's more than enough official methods to obtain blood samples or any other bio samples.

And this is not counting how Accelerator was essentially a lab rat for most of his childhood life.
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Old 2011-12-26, 23:07   Link #15799
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Okay fair point, but you're forgetting that Espers get experiment on all the time- while not the strap to the table invasive type, there's more than enough official methods to obtain blood samples or any other bio samples.

And this is not counting how Accelerator was essentially a lab rat for most of his childhood life.
Again, not enough. We're looking to manufacture 20,000 clones, and this kind of mass production requires large amounts of material which cannot be procured through the usual means. Only through voluntary donations can such amounts be obtained without having quite a bit of money spent on holding the subject down, repairing the facilities, etc.
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Old 2011-12-26, 23:23   Link #15800
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi
Again, not enough. We're looking to manufacture 20,000 clones,
They seem to have made only one clone: Full Tuning. Than the experiment got frozen as the result was not a Level 5.

20 000 clones came during the 2nd Production Plan that came later when they (officially) needed fodder for Accel. They possibly used Full Tuning for both this and creation of the Radio Noise.

3rd Production Plan also proves that clones can also be used to gather materials as Mikoto definitely didn't give any DNA for that one.
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