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Old 2011-12-26, 23:36   Link #15801
Chaos2Frozen
The Evil Within
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Again, not enough. We're looking to manufacture 20,000 clones, and this kind of mass production requires large amounts of material which cannot be procured through the usual means. Only through voluntary donations can such amounts be obtained without having quite a bit of money spent on holding the subject down, repairing the facilities, etc.

It's still too easy, every time they need to run tests on their powers is an excuse to collect blood samples, I'm sure even tokiwadai is probably 'milking' Mikoto for all she's worth. We don't know what Kakine and Mugino's life were like but since both of them used to work for the board they're bound to undergo testings...

Heck I'm more than certain they would need to take blood samples before and after they've signed up to become espers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nayrael View Post
They seem to have made only one clone: Full Tuning. Than the experiment got frozen as the result was not a Level 5.

20 000 clones came during the 2nd Production Plan that came later when they (officially) needed fodder for Accel. They possibly used Full Tuning for both this and creation of the Radio Noise.

3rd Production Plan also proves that clones can also be used to gather materials as Mikoto definitely didn't give any DNA for that one.
Which volume did they talk about Full-Tuning?
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Old 2011-12-26, 23:37   Link #15802
Twi
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Besides, all espers have the same weakness: magic.
How hard do you think it would be to trick them into performing magic like Accel?

One things for sure, after this volume the scope of the light novels will be greater....

On another note, Kuroko must be flipping out about now.
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Old 2011-12-26, 23:44   Link #15803
Chaos2Frozen
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Join Date: Nov 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twi View Post
Besides, all espers have the same weakness: magic.
How hard do you think it would be to trick them into performing magic like Accel?
Depends, if we see them pulling it off again when he's fighting this Hybrid army then we know it's easy. But Accelerator trashed 3 out of 4 of them before the effects kicked in, that's 3 times the causality rate.

Plus it's easier to ring around 1 person, if you're talking larger scale I doubt it's going to be easy to micro manage everyone's movement.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Twi View Post
One things for sure, after this volume the scope of the light novels will be greater....

On another note, Kuroko must be flipping out about now.

Extra points if she saw them on the news.
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Old 2011-12-26, 23:50   Link #15804
Sumeragi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
It's still too easy, every time they need to run tests on their powers is an excuse to collect blood samples, I'm sure even tokiwadai is probably 'milking' Mikoto for all she's worth. We don't know what Kakine and Mugino's life were like but since both of them used to work for the board they're bound to undergo testings...

Heck I'm more than certain they would need to take blood samples before and after they've signed up to become espers.
But the question stands: Why did they need to ask her directly if blood samples would have been enough? The only logical conclusion is that they needed an amount that could not be obtained through other means.

Basically, to be blunt: There is no damn way that simple blood sample would lead to clones, like in regular fiction. The way it is portrayed in Index is probably one of the most realistic way of cloning, by recognizing that it is next to impossible to clone an entire individual from just a bit of blood. Substantial amounts is needed to account for both the actual use in cloning, the degrading of material, and the backup for failure. Any argument contrary to this based on flimsy thought of "but they could have gotten blood samples from regular stuff" is just thoughtless idealism.
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Old 2011-12-27, 00:10   Link #15805
Mr.Kyon
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Um, guys, they didn't need many samples from Mikoto to make the 20,000 clones. She gave them a donation of her DNA, but apparently that was it. Hell, they only need the somatic cells from her hair if the wiki ain't lying.

Procuring materials shouldn't be a problem.
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Old 2011-12-27, 00:15   Link #15806
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twi View Post
If it leaked that Aleister used child soldiers, the parents would try to withdraw them. If he says "No", then other countries will use that as an excuse invade AC. Especially if what happened in the spoilers is true.

Besides, only Level 3 and up would be of any use, the rest would be fodder.
If he really was serious, he just sends out Kazakiri Hyouka....assuming she is willing to go....
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Old 2011-12-27, 07:05   Link #15807
ellifeedn
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This whole DNA thing is off-topic, but giving my two cents, iirc Mikoto agreed to give her DNA map/pattern. From that scientists could either build new bodies from scratch, or take already existing DNA and tweak it until it matches her DNA.
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Old 2011-12-27, 07:10   Link #15808
Sumeragi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellifeedn View Post
This whole DNA thing is off-topic, but giving my two cents, iirc Mikoto agreed to give her DNA map/pattern. From that scientists could either build new bodies from scratch, or take already existing DNA and tweak it until it matches her DNA.
If AC had the all-powerful machines that Sci-Fi tend to have, but yes. However, the proper approach to this is working backwards: Why did they ask for a sample when they could use blood samples, etc? Because the technology required something beyond such a small/incomplete sample. Given this pretext, it is only logical that the amount of sample needed would be substantial. It shows that as advanced AC is, there are limits to biological engineering that would make it necessary to gather enough samples for backup.

Summary: The all-powerful cloning powers in regular Sci-Fi is simply on a far too advanced level, so let's stop assuming things on that particular idea.



That being said..... Has there been any list of locations as to where the Sisters were sent? I came across this strange discussion in a Korean Index fan cafe about one group being sent to Ulsan, ROK.
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Old 2011-12-27, 07:10   Link #15809
Nayrael
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I still think the reason for cloning Mikoto is just the need of Network. Screw a clone that you need to teach hot to speak, read, calculate and just than train into an Esper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen
Which volume did they talk about Full-Tuning?
Throughout few of them. I think, but am not sure, that she was first mentioned in Volume 5 as the first clone, thus she is from the First Production Plan.

If I remember right, in SS2 Imouto's talked about her and mentioned how she was disconnected from Network at some point of time.
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Old 2011-12-27, 08:30   Link #15810
Chaos2Frozen
The Evil Within
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
That being said..... Has there been any list of locations as to where the Sisters were sent? I came across this strange discussion in a Korean Index fan cafe about one group being sent to Ulsan, ROK.
In volume 8 when the Imoutos were communicating with one other we've gotten the names of some cities- Sevilla, Schleswig, Novosibirsk, Cape Kennedy, and of course we later learn about Russia.
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Old 2011-12-27, 08:45   Link #15811
Sumeragi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
In volume 8 when the Imoutos were communicating with one other we've gotten the names of some cities- Sevilla, Schleswig, Novosibirsk, Cape Kennedy, and of course we later learn about Russia.
Novosibirsk IS in Russia

Anyway, thanks.
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Old 2011-12-27, 08:47   Link #15812
Marcus H.
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Join Date: May 2009
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There's also Volume SS2.

> Galashiels, UK
> Lausanne, Switzerland
> Guadalajara, Mexico
> Deseado, Argentina
> Davao, Philippines
> Ahmednagar, India
> Beijing, China
> La Paragua, Venezuela
> Moosonee, Canada
> Salzburg, Austria
> Antarctica
> Chiang Mai, Thailand
> Starogard, Poland
> Faenza, Italy
> Logroño, Spain
> Gunsan, South Korea
> Angoulême, France
> Codajás, Brazil
> Zacapa, Guatemala +
> Salzgitter, Germany
> Celje, Slovenia +
> Bergen, Norway +
> Rovaniemi, Finland +
> Sydney, Australia +
> Bragança, Portugal +

Places with + are confirmed locations of Gemstones.
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Old 2011-12-27, 08:55   Link #15813
cleed
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
There's also Volume SS2.

> Galashiels, UK
> Lausanne, Switzerland
> Guadalajara, Mexico
> Deseado, Argentina
> Davao, Philippines
> Ahmednagar, India
> Beijing, China
> La Paragua, Venezuela
> Moosonee, Canada
> Salzburg, Austria
> Antarctica
> Chiang Mai, Thailand
> Starogard, Poland
> Faenza, Italy
> Logroño, Spain
> Gunsan, South Korea
> Angoulême, France
> Codajás, Brazil
> Zacapa, Guatemala +
> Salzgitter, Germany
> Celje, Slovenia +
> Bergen, Norway +
> Rovaniemi, Finland +
> Sydney, Australia +
> Bragança, Portugal +

Places with + are confirmed locations of Gemstones.
How is that relevant?
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Old 2011-12-27, 08:58   Link #15814
Sumeragi
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I might be reading it wrong.... But weren't those the targets rather than where the Sisters were located?


Quote:
Originally Posted by cleed View Post
How is that relevant?
The Sisters were mobilized to either get or stop the "mining" of Gemstones.
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Old 2011-12-27, 09:01   Link #15815
Chaos2Frozen
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Another thing that's been bothering me is that even if they only assign 1 imouto in every other city which I doubt is the case seeing as how Academy City alone has 10 of them, is 9969 clones really enough to cover the World?
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Old 2011-12-27, 09:02   Link #15816
tsunade666
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Join Date: Mar 2009
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it's gemstone so of course it's relevant. Gemstones > artificial espers.
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Old 2011-12-27, 09:11   Link #15817
Sumeragi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Another thing that's been bothering me is that even if they only assign 1 imouto in every other city which I doubt is the case seeing as how Academy City alone has 10 of them, is 9969 clones really enough to cover the World?
Supposing we station one squad (around 10) per location, we still have 997 locations to send the Sisters. Given that the total land mass are is 148,939,063.133 sq. km, that's about 149,387 sq. km coverage per squad. However, given that we really don't need to cover the Sahara and other such empty places, I'll cut the coverage by 50% to 74,693.5 sq. km coverage per squad. That's about equal to either South Carolina, Ireland, or Hokkaido. That should be enough for adequate coverage in terms of operations.
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Old 2011-12-27, 10:12   Link #15818
Cosmic Eagle
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Join Date: Jan 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
> Rovaniemi, Finland +


Places with + are confirmed locations of Gemstones.
This proves it.....

St Nick is a Gemstone....
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Old 2011-12-27, 13:45   Link #15819
leukrota
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twi View Post
On another note, Kuroko must be flipping out about now.
Extra points if she saw them on the news.
Oh, I wonder how Touma's and Mikoto's parents would react if they find out their children skipped school and went on trip to Hawaii... I bet they would think those guys eloped (since our heroes would never worry them by telling the truth)... Shiina could even force Touma to "take responsibility"

So much cliche ship teasing material there, something tells me Kamachi won't miss that chance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
I might be reading it wrong.... But weren't those the targets rather than where the Sisters were located?
Yeah, but there was also a single Sister in each location. That tell me they didn't have enough time to gather in squads for a safer approach. Most likely, the Sisters sent were those nearer to the targets.
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Old 2011-12-27, 14:14   Link #15820
Miraluka
18 forever
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Though if they REALLY REALLY want to, a clone-cyborg-esper-mecha army is not out of their reach.
From what I can remember May Day Project met its end because of the resources and funds needed were way too expensive,

Quote:
Originally Posted by djmaca View Post
Oh I get it! But why didn't they clone Accelerator, Dark Matter or Meltdowner, and just cloned Railgun?
Because they can't create a mental Network without using electrical signals from a electric esper. Thats why we have Misaka Network.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Another thing that's been bothering me is that even if they only assign 1 imouto in every other city which I doubt is the case seeing as how Academy City alone has 10 of them, is 9969 clones really enough to cover the World?
Just strategic points to have them acting as antennaes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by leukrota View Post
So much cliche ship teasing material there, something tells me Kamachi won't miss that chance.
The authoe would avoid them rathern that use them too much, just read NT03, there is far less ship teasing material than fans thought it would be when the cover appeared on the net.
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