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Old 2012-03-25, 19:15   Link #17821
Master Assassin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leukrota View Post
@ Doc Astaroth - Indeed, a "common" Saint could have done the same thing.

Still, the "worf effect" was established by having Touma beat the volume's big boss, virtually winning the Natural Selector, only to be instantly trashed by the new character.
Though, having remembered that this is not the first time he got his arm off his torso... I can totally imagine him going "Not again... this sucks. It hurts like hell you know. Fukou da."
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Old 2012-03-25, 19:38   Link #17822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leukrota View Post
@ Doc Astaroth - Indeed, a "common" Saint could have done the same thing.

Still, the "worf effect" was established by having Touma beat the volume's big boss, virtually winning the Natural Selector, only to be instantly trashed by the new character.
The worf effect for this volume was for Ollerus and Fiamma, especially since the author deliberaltely let Fiamma gain his Holy Right back.
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Old 2012-03-25, 19:42   Link #17823
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^ This time it hurts a lot more because the arm is crushed and not cut off.
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Old 2012-03-25, 19:48   Link #17824
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Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou View Post
Not really. Touma's already been stomped to hell and back countless times, sometimes more than once in a single volume. And half the time, it's because of sheer surprise.
Hmm... It still could be from Maria's perspective. After hearing the Kamijou's Mythos, Touma arrived at the last moment to save the day with an epic fight against the Gremlin monster... Though this way it goes in favor of Othinus, Ollerus and Fiamma I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou View Post
It's like saying Acqua got Worf'd in Vol. 16 because he couldn't anticipate Touma's interference at the last second.
Ok, that makes no sense at all, and it's really different from what I'm saying.
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Old 2012-03-25, 19:55   Link #17825
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The Worf Effect occurs when an established "strong" character gets god stompped by an opponent just to show to the audience how powerful they are.

Acqua being defeated in vol 16 wasn't an example of the worf effect, but Kanzaki VS Acqua was, because we knew how powerful Kanzaki is, but their fight showed the difference between a Saint, and a Saint that is also a member of Gods Right Seat.
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Old 2012-03-25, 20:21   Link #17826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Village Idiot View Post
Acqua being defeated in vol 16 wasn't an example of the worf effect, but Kanzaki VS Acqua
Kanzaki vs Acqua is not a good example because the fight actually lasted long. Furthermore Kanzaki in the end was technically "the winner" by being in the side that defeated Acqua, she wasn't "defeated" through out the fight (just badly pushed back before she realized that she had a team to watch her back).

Kanzaki vs Knight Leader is the perfect example of Worf Effect..... Then again, Stiyl is there.
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Old 2012-03-25, 20:31   Link #17827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul Assassin View Post
Though, having remembered that this is not the first time he got his arm off his torso... I can totally imagine him going "Not again... this sucks. It hurts like hell you know. Fukou da."
LOL, making count he has lost 3 arms already... and he keeps calling himself a "normal" high school student?

EDIT:
Thinking more about the "worg effect" for Othinus, it's definitely established also for the audience, if not by Touma's defeat, by the... "unknown creepy invisible thingy... whatever it is"'s defeat.
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Old 2012-03-25, 21:05   Link #17828
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Now that I think about it, Touma still has his own power that he used to crush "that thing" and make a newright arm . We can conclude that his power is not Imagine Breaker. Imagine Breaker is a power that stays in his right hand, so his own power is something entirely distint. If we see back in vol 22 :

A different power appeared above that great power that had gathered around Kamijou’s shoulder. That other power seemed to open up a large mouth and swallowed up the first power. As if this giant mouth was chewing, the air around the shoulder shook looked like sugar water.

That great power was smashed in an instant.


Probably this is the power that Aleister was preventing everyone to know, to the point of going to Russia to dispose of Fiamma, the only one who saw that. And if Touma could do that his powers can probably be on a higher level than Othinus. That's probably the reason why Imagine Breaker still stick with him like glue.
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Old 2012-03-25, 21:16   Link #17829
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I would need to read the scene (hell, I actually need to read the series), but basically, does that mean Touma has three powers: Imagine Breaker, the Great Power, and the Other Power?
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Old 2012-03-25, 21:18   Link #17830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
I would need to read the scene (hell, I actually need to read the series), but basically, does that mean Touma has three powers: Imagine Breaker, the Great Power, and the Other Power?
Yep.

Swiss Army Knife of World-Ending Powers indeed.
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Old 2012-03-25, 21:23   Link #17831
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Erm Im pretty sure the name of that other power is called willpower
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Old 2012-03-25, 21:24   Link #17832
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Can you include pregonição half-assed as the fourth power?
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Old 2012-03-25, 21:25   Link #17833
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Erm Im pretty sure the name of that other power is called willpower
Then Touma is actually a descendant of Haruhi to have such instantaneous willpower
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Old 2012-03-25, 21:30   Link #17834
leukrota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acer View Post
Can you include pregonição half-assed as the fourth power?
I'm almost sure that the "precognition" is a learned feat derived directly from the Imagine Breaker.
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Old 2012-03-25, 21:38   Link #17835
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Kyon View Post
Then Touma is actually a descendant of Haruhi to have such instantaneous willpower
No, I mean the willpower to suppress whatever that thing was inside of him.
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Old 2012-03-25, 21:52   Link #17836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
No, I mean the willpower to suppress whatever that thing was inside of him.
I think he did that during vol 22, after he was having an argument with the "thing" inside him.
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Old 2012-03-25, 22:04   Link #17837
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So Fiamma was at planet busting level when fighting Othinus?
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Old 2012-03-25, 22:29   Link #17838
leukrota
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^ I wouldn't expect him to be able to reach that level anymore considering the conditions he needed for that.

The regular "pre-crisis" Holy Right was already strong enough... Somehow I don't think he intervened in the Othinus vs Ollerus fight, but perhaps he was there to make sure others weren't killed from those two going at it.
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Old 2012-03-25, 22:41   Link #17839
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But, if I got it right, during the fight Fianma got back the "world-saving" powers that he attained in the Star of Bethlehem due Kamijou's right hand being cut off by Othinus.
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Old 2012-03-25, 23:14   Link #17840
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^does that mean that the thing inside Touma is not friendly?

Because holy right only activates on something evil or bad. That's why Fiamma targeted the negative side of the world to power it.
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