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Old 2012-04-02, 12:34   Link #18061
ellifeedn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Im pretty sure it was planned since the beginning. Almost every volume has a couple of plot point that is use to foreshadow a future incident.

For example, Vol 1 - the destruction of Tree Diagram, Vol 2 - That thing, Vol 3 - Pretty much the entire incident have the longest reaching effects, Vol 4 - Intro of the angel Misha... etc etc.
I remember hearing somewhere that Volume 1 has supposed to be a one-shot. But even if it wasn't, how many authors plan out a whole universe before they know whether or not they will be able to publish more than one novel?
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Old 2012-04-02, 13:41   Link #18062
Okashira
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellifeedn View Post
I remember hearing somewhere that Volume 1 has supposed to be a one-shot. But even if it wasn't, how many authors plan out a whole universe before they know whether or not they will be able to publish more than one novel?
1.- No. What kamachi didn't know was if the story was getting serialized. If it's not serialized you can usually publish between a single to up to 3 volumes.

2.- It's semi common, actually. It's more of an odd balls that start only with some ideas and then made up things on the fry.
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Old 2012-04-02, 13:47   Link #18063
desrtsku
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^ Yeah, that's right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Not really, Fiamma was technically causing the apocalypsis during the WW3 and was stopped. The same could be said for Ragnarok.

I bet Kamachi plans to do this.
I just hope they'd stop it before the Loli actually gets killed ... and I can't imagine how hax it would be (I mean Kamachi's Fenrir) ... or how old it would be
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Old 2012-04-02, 15:03   Link #18064
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellifeedn View Post
I remember hearing somewhere that Volume 1 has supposed to be a one-shot.
That's just something people rumored up to explain the difference in feel between the first book and the rest... There isn't any actual evidence to support that claim.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ellifeedn View Post
But even if it wasn't, how many authors plan out a whole universe before they know whether or not they will be able to publish more than one novel?
Lol, have you ever written a fanfic? Sometimes ideas just takes over.

In my head right this very moment I'm holding plans for an epic 4 parts Nanoha series (6 parts, if I plan to include something for the current two mangas) involving Yuuno, Chrono and Acous using elements that I've picked up from reading studying Index, and some parts from watching 'Burn Notice', 'Fringe', 'White Collar' and 'Justified', nothing too game changing, just more than enough for you to feel where the inspiration comes from. I've already thought up of several warring organization, and their history and their ideology and culture and politics and how all that clashes with each other in a Mafia sort of way. I've even prepared a special style of magic technique that I picked up from watching 'Horizon'.


...Haven't really written pass part one though.
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Old 2012-04-03, 04:47   Link #18065
desrtsku
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Quote:
...Haven't really written pass part one though.
Too bad ... at least you've somehow proven the statement's veracity >.>
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Old 2012-04-03, 12:49   Link #18066
R.LocK
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That damned Kamachi with his foreshadowing. Now, I cannot understand if he planned out everything or just played his cards right enough to make me believe in the first statement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volume 2, chapter 1
Has he obtained all the possibilities that a "human" can only wish for? Or has he given up on all the possibilities that a "human" has?
Hello, foreshadowing of Odin and Byouri?
Quote:
Originally Posted by The same chapter
The rules of this world can be seen as a microscopic (micro) and telescopic (macro). As for which are micro and which are macro, it's said that these are also within Aleister's range of research
Now, we remember about Odin's experiment, right.

Hm, that's what my tired brain can make out of some small research for fanfic. I forgot where was the mention of Touma not feeling the aura from Index in first volume (hello, precognition!)... Alright, I'm done for now otherwise I'd drag it for a loooooong time.
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Old 2012-04-03, 20:49   Link #18067
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desrtsku View Post
Too bad ... at least you've somehow proven the statement's veracity >.>


The point is, if you're writing a plot and setting intenisve story, you'll definately be planning ten steps ahead with an entire Universe figured out.
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Old 2012-04-03, 21:03   Link #18068
Twi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Not really, Fiamma was technically causing the apocalypsis during the WW3 and was stopped. The same could be said for Ragnarok.

I bet Kamachi plans to do this.
He failed because he didn't believe in himself. Touma's words won't keep reaching everyone and Touma only could stop what he could touch. That won't save him every time. Plus, if you call fenrir, his siblings will come as well, and one Archangel cost him a trip into the sea.
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Old 2012-04-03, 22:18   Link #18069
Miraluka
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GRS didn't come together, just each member at time.

Also, Touma isn't the only hero this time, we have Ollerus and now, Fiamma which I hope will evolve to the next Aeon and recover his powers.
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Old 2012-04-05, 01:00   Link #18070
Ohara
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http://forums.animesuki.com/group.ph...&pp=10&page=12

http://forums.animesuki.com/group.ph...2&pp=20&page=6
can't seem to find these via the search function somehow
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Old 2012-04-05, 17:54   Link #18071
M.A.D
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashaman View Post
There's a lot iffy about Idol theory as the sole explanation of magic spells. For example, it doesn't seem that you need the actual entities to exist that you're basing stuff on. For example, Norse and Christian religions have some mutually exclusive mythos, sort of casting doubt on certain existances.

And then there is the girl who used Cinder-fucking-ella as the basis of her spells.

There's also been mention that basing a spell on myths and legends is easier then doing one from scratch, implying its possible.

Basically, Idol Theory is one part of spells. There must be another method of building spells that doesn't rely on Idol Theory.
Of course it's not the sole explanation of magic spells. By definition, the Idol Theory is a method of copying magic that somebody had created and used before, simply because that it's easier than inventing new magic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Not really, Fiamma was technically causing the apocalypsis during the WW3 and was stopped. The same could be said for Ragnarok.

I bet Kamachi plans to do this.
Ollerus is not the kind of person who would create a catastrophe on the level of WW3 just to kill a single girl. But then again, that very same girl might create something like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Okashira View Post
1.- No. What kamachi didn't know was if the story was getting serialized. If it's not serialized you can usually publish between a single to up to 3 volumes.

2.- It's semi common, actually. It's more of an odd balls that start only with some ideas and then made up things on the fry.
Looking at the name of the series, one can tell that he originally planned the materials for 2-3 volumes at most, all of which would have Index as the main heroine. It was only after the novel was serialized that he expanded the entire universe to many different sides. But even then, the materials in one volume would only have enough leads for 1 or two more, which meant he didn't really plan that far ahead. He must have added a lot of elements along the way, since many of those elements were first introduced in the side stories of characters who unexpectedly became famous.

Well, it's different for NT, though. He probably had the whole series planned out in advance.
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Old 2012-04-05, 19:19   Link #18072
Miraluka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.A.D View Post
Ollerus is not the kind of person who would create a catastrophe on the level of WW3 just to kill a single girl. But then again, that very same girl might create something like that.
I didn't say Ollerus. Othinus could be the one who start this or other Gremlin's core member.
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Old 2012-04-06, 05:19   Link #18073
M.A.D
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
I didn't say Ollerus. Othinus could be the one who start this or other Gremlin's core member.
That's not possible. Maybe I should phrase it differently: Killing Othinus using Fenrir would directly lead to Ragnarok, which Olleris would never allow. Same reason for Othinus or her followers to never try it. For Ollerus, there's no other known method to kill Othinus other than using Fenrir, so it's a stalemate for now.
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Old 2012-04-06, 10:17   Link #18074
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.A.D View Post
That's not possible. Maybe I should phrase it differently: Killing Othinus using Fenrir would directly lead to Ragnarok, which Olleris would never allow. Same reason for Othinus or her followers to never try it. For Ollerus, there's no other known method to kill Othinus other than using Fenrir, so it's a stalemate for now.
That's a very big assumption in the first place that Othinus would still have the same weakness now that she's a Magic God. Also, you do know that she's not really 'Odin'? That's just a title or even a magic name of sorts, killing her wouldn't bring about the end of the world unless you intend to do it by dropping a giant castle and creating a second Ice Age in the process.


Secondly, Ollerus said if he could have done so, he would have killed her a long time ago- This implies that a method does not yet exist, rather than a method which price is too high to pay, or else he would had said 'I couldn't even if I wanted to', a technicality maybe, but I would like to think it means something.
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Old 2012-04-06, 10:57   Link #18075
M.A.D
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
That's a very big assumption in the first place that Othinus would still have the same weakness now that she's a Magic God. Also, you do know that she's not really 'Odin'? That's just a title or even a magic name of sorts, killing her wouldn't bring about the end of the world unless you intend to do it by dropping a giant castle and creating a second Ice Age in the process.


Secondly, Ollerus said if he could have done so, he would have killed her a long time ago- This implies that a method does not yet exist, rather than a method which price is too high to pay, or else he would had said 'I couldn't even if I wanted to', a technicality maybe, but I would like to think it means something.
The only assumption here is that her power is connected to, or is the same as, Odin, which isn't that bad if you consider the general Nordic Gods theme and her eyepatch. If that assumption were true then Odin's weakness must be applicable to Othinus. Even a magic god is bounded by the rules of magic. As a supposedly "perfect balanced being", her odds in everything is a balanced 50/50 instead of some variable number like Ollerus'

And you're reading too much into the wordings of the novel. After all, it's the translated version of a line from a language that emphasizes on subtlety and written by an author whose style usually consisting of indirect implications. As you said, it could have been technicality, and your preferences in its meaning doesn't necessary hold true.
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Old 2012-04-06, 11:14   Link #18076
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.A.D View Post
The only assumption here is that her power is connected to, or is the same as, Odin, which isn't that bad if you consider the general Nordic Gods theme and her eyepatch. If that assumption were true then Odin's weakness must be applicable to Othinus. Even a magic god is bounded by the rules of magic. As a supposedly "perfect balanced being", her odds in everything is a balanced 50/50 instead of some variable number like Ollerus'
You're forgetting that even if she is following a Norse theme, and that her powers are related to Odin, a Magic God is someone with a vast knowledge of Magic, even those outside of their specialty. It's not hard to image her compensating her original perceived weakness with the knowledge from other grimoires and such.

Only God and Aleister knows how many Fairy Tales are out there involving the slaying of a big bad wolf...


Quote:
Originally Posted by M.A.D View Post
And you're reading too much into the wordings of the novel. After all, it's the translated version of a line from a language that emphasizes on subtlety and written by an author whose style usually consisting of indirect implications. As you said, it could have been technicality, and your preferences in its meaning doesn't necessary hold true.
Perhaps, but I'm not the one bringing up 'Ragnarok' and 'Fenrir' as if they were already established to currently exist in the story in one form or another, and then applied said terminologies into my argument.

Last edited by Chaos2Frozen; 2012-04-06 at 11:42.
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Old 2012-04-06, 12:01   Link #18077
leukrota
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I just remembered something from the Norse SS.

One of the chapters was about Naglfar, a ship transporting Hel's army, made of dead people's nails. In the myth this ship is not supposed to set sail until Ragnarok, yet nobody mentioned in the novel that such ship could onset it. So maybe it's possible to use a Fenrir themed spiritual item without bringing the end of the world.
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Old 2012-04-07, 06:02   Link #18078
M.A.D
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
You're forgetting that even if she is following a Norse theme, and that her powers are related to Odin, a Magic God is someone with a vast knowledge of Magic, even those outside of their specialty. It's not hard to image her compensating her original perceived weakness with the knowledge from other grimoires and such.

Only God and Aleister knows how many Fairy Tales are out there involving the slaying of a big bad wolf...
She is doing exactly that, improving her odds to more than 50/50 by creating Odin's weapon despite catastrophic side effects. There fact that she's doing it means that she's still bounded to the rules of magic, despite her knowledge of grimoires and such.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Perhaps, but I'm not the one bringing up 'Ragnarok' and 'Fenrir' as if they were already established to currently exist in the story in one form or another, and then applied said terminologies into my argument.

Anyway, this doesn't have anything to do with you reading too much into the dialogue, so don't change the subject. And we're all speculating, aren't we? Our basis is that she looks like Odin and is trying to forge Odin's most powerful weapon. Is that not enough to assume that her power is connected to Odin?
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Old 2012-04-07, 10:53   Link #18079
Sleep_ping
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You know, I actually figured her to be like...Date Masamune's daughter or something.

Jokes aside, it will be relatively safe to assume that those with Nordic gods/heroes nicknames will have powers similar to those of the original versions. But do note that her 50/50 ability is as a majin, not of Norse mythology.
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Old 2012-04-07, 10:55   Link #18080
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.A.D View Post
She is doing exactly that, improving her odds to more than 50/50 by creating Odin's weapon despite catastrophic side effects. There fact that she's doing it means that she's still bounded to the rules of magic, despite her knowledge of grimoires and such.
Yes, but that weakness is related to being a Magic God, not anything to do with using Odin's powers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by M.A.D View Post
Anyway, this doesn't have anything to do with you reading too much into the dialogue, so don't change the subject. And we're all speculating, aren't we? Our basis is that she looks like Odin and is trying to forge Odin's most powerful weapon. Is that not enough to assume that her power is connected to Odin?
At least the dialogue I'm reading too much into actually exist...>.>

Sure you can speculate and I never deny that her powers are connected to Odin, but the moment you start talking about elements that have not yet been properly introduced into the story as if they were facts... Well, that would raise a few eyebrows now wouldn't it?

Once Again, Kamachi's ideology about this kind of issue never changes- If the answer was that simple, somebody would have already done it. But instead of bringing up your suggestion, Ollerus' focus in his dialogue with Othinus was on the 50:50 chance, implying that was her one and only main weakness. Another thing, while she maybe be using the name 'Othinus', while she may be using Odin's power, it does not make her Odin himself- To say that Ragnarok would start because of her defeat... Well that's pretty far fetch.

Last edited by Chaos2Frozen; 2012-04-07 at 11:27.
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