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Old 2010-03-02, 10:23   Link #1901
Ashaman
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Keeping his distace would work, yes, but you gotta remember Accel's power relies on touch. If he had managed to get in close he only had to touch Touma, a single finger would do, and it's a near instant win.

And he didn't just stand there. Accel is a physically weak guy who just got punched in the face for the first time ever! That kinda surprises a guy and he was still reeling from it a little when lo and behold, there's another punch to the face.

I do agree though that if Accel had sniped Toua he would win easily. Unless you subscribe to the 'Imagine Breaker could block those blows' theory. But we shan't talk about that here.
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Old 2010-03-02, 10:56   Link #1902
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Yeah I guess Toma only made Acc look kinda weak in that specific situation.
And well, talk about snipe, a gun would take Toma (and anyone else in a defenseless position) down in an instance.


So yeah, how far is the Light Novel as of right now? Vol 20? 21? 22?
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Old 2010-03-02, 11:51   Link #1903
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volume 20 comes out this month...in total there are 23(?) volumes including SS1, SS2 and SS3...
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Old 2010-03-02, 13:07   Link #1904
tsunade666
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kanzaki isnt that strong i believe level 5's can beat her guhna railgun accelarator kakine mugino can defeat her easily
Saints are stronger than level 5. They could make level 5 like a child well except for accel but still his no match for them. The only way he can stood against a saint is when his in black wings mode which index said rivals the power of the saints.

And I'm not sure for kaori withstanding a nuke attack but what I'm saying is the power of saints are compare to nuke weapons or super weapons that if they are left unchecked they could destroy the world.

And yes no one can withstand and angel. Specially in angel fall. Arch angel gabriel with just a single world can turn the who world into ashes. The anime tone it down A LOT. But in the novel you can see the awesomeness of an angel that makes touma wet his pants and you can clearly see the power a saint. And saints are nothing compare to angels but they are the only one who can withstand that barrage of angelic punishment. If its an ordinary magician it will just die in mere presence of it.


As of now if you compare the power balance between magic and science. Magic side has the clear advantage with their saints and all but the science side has their artificial angel. Not including Aiwass because his kinda neutral to both sides.
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Old 2010-03-02, 16:41   Link #1905
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If she was an ordinary magician I wonder if she would have been able to defend against Misha in the Angel Fall arc.
An Archangel like Gabriel against Kaori was an unfair "battle" if you ask me, thanks to God, Gabriel didn't felt like he wanted to turn in to ashes half of the Earth or just stopping their rotation. The anime tone it down a lot .

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As of now if you compare the power balance between magic and science. Magic side has the clear advantage with their saints and all but the science side has their artificial angel. Not including Aiwass because his kinda neutral to both sides.
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Old 2010-03-02, 22:38   Link #1906
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Originally Posted by Ashaman View Post
And he didn't just stand there. Accel is a physically weak guy who just got punched in the face for the first time ever! That kinda surprises a guy and he was still reeling from it a little when lo and behold, there's another punch to the face.
But he did. Check Ep14 of Index again (the scene before the plasma charge-up). He literally just stood there, not even trying to dodge a flying punch, of all things. The way it looked to me, he was trying to find out what power Touma was using, and trying to add it to his autoreflect.

And no, IB can't cancel Accelerator's projectiles' momentum. What he does is, he modifies the vector stats of particles/objects that are in contact with his AIM field. Thus, he is not constantly applying power to his projectiles once they are set in motion (his AIM field only does the initial push, everything else is left to Index-verse's physics engine). IB, supposedly, only negates/suppresses supernatural fields (magic, AIM, divine) it comes into contact with, so it has no effect on Accelerator's projectiles' momentum.
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Old 2010-03-03, 00:17   Link #1907
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I believe Kanzaki hasn't shown her real powers yet.
I imagine her having some kind of overlimit mode where she unleashes her true powers thanks to that Stigma.
And it isn't said that she can survive a nuclear bomb, but her power reaches that of one.
If she was an ordinary magician I wonder if she would have been able to defend against Misha in the Angel Fall arc.
You get to see her going all out in her fight with Aqua. It.... I would say it is the second most epic fight thus far. The fight is a battle of magic in its epitome.
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Old 2010-03-03, 06:23   Link #1908
LastResolve
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saints posses superhuman bodies that can withstand more damage and encreased muscle
do they posses angelic like wings as well if they do what do they gain another body power up?
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Old 2010-03-03, 08:12   Link #1909
Ashaman
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But he did. Check Ep14 of Index again (the scene before the plasma charge-up). He literally just stood there, not even trying to dodge a flying punch, of all things. The way it looked to me, he was trying to find out what power Touma was using, and trying to add it to his autoreflect.

And no, IB can't cancel Accelerator's projectiles' momentum. What he does is, he modifies the vector stats of particles/objects that are in contact with his AIM field. Thus, he is not constantly applying power to his projectiles once they are set in motion (his AIM field only does the initial push, everything else is left to Index-verse's physics engine). IB, supposedly, only negates/suppresses supernatural fields (magic, AIM, divine) it comes into contact with, so it has no effect on Accelerator's projectiles' momentum.
You got me there. I'd forgotten about that scene to be honest. And thinking back on it, you're probably right about him trying to factor it into Reflection. Still, that is only one scene. In the other he was a bit too shook up to dodge.

Second point. I agree with that too. I never said I thought that IB could block it, in fact I agree with you there. BTW, that had to be the best IB explanation I have ever heard.
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Old 2010-03-03, 09:05   Link #1910
tsunade666
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Originally Posted by LastResolve View Post
saints posses superhuman bodies that can withstand more damage and encreased muscle
do they posses angelic like wings as well if they do what do they gain another body power up?
NO they don't posses wings. The only ones yet are Accel and Kakine. Its been saint who bears stigma had the same body as the son of god when his in human form but being the same as god bears a lot of weakness. Its like having a humongous strength has a danger with it.

They can call up the power of divines but its also put damage on them so the saint usually utilize up to 50% of their power. If they go beyond it, it may be dangerous and the only one who can exceed it is Aqua who was a dual saint. But being also dual brings him double effects on the weakness of a saint.

To be more precise Saints are all powering but I like the Gemstones more. Gemstones tend to be mysterious and doesn't have many weakness though being a Saint is totally awesome with its huge power with it.
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Old 2010-03-03, 09:13   Link #1911
LastResolve
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so saints are weak against stabbing and such? (similiar to the suffering of jesus christ)
i was keep thinking cant accelarator encrease or decrease the vibrations between molecule theoritically he could melt or freeze anything he wants?
also touma can nullify magic espers etc with his whole hand or just with his palm cuz if with his whole arm then ars magna shoudnt be able to cut his arm off wich would make a big plot hole lol
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Old 2010-03-03, 09:24   Link #1912
Miraluka
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Yeah, saints are like that, Aqua being a double saint is even more weak against those kind of executions and with the anti-divine spell made by the Amakusa Church inflicts even more damage. More dakka!

Mmmm... since saints have a different nature of their power they can inflict damage to Accelerator, but sure he can add them to his filter if he has the chance.


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Last edited by Miraluka; 2010-03-03 at 09:40.
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Old 2010-03-03, 11:01   Link #1913
giorno
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Originally Posted by LastResolve View Post
so saints are weak against stabbing and such? (similiar to the suffering of jesus christ)
i was keep thinking cant accelarator encrease or decrease the vibrations between molecule theoritically he could melt or freeze anything he wants?
also touma can nullify magic espers etc with his whole hand or just with his palm cuz if with his whole arm then ars magna shoudnt be able to cut his arm off wich would make a big plot hole lol
yes, the saints are weak against stabbing, in fact, there's the stab sword during the sports festival arc...

heh, if accelerator could manipulate molecular vibration(which he should be able to do, if he can manipulate matter at the atomic or subatomic level...) yes, he could make people explode, literally, or freeze them, just by touch...
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Old 2010-03-03, 11:14   Link #1914
tsunade666
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but he wouldn't do that. Because it will be dangerous for him. Manipulating in subatomic level will put him in helpless state like when he got shot in his head in LO arc. Remember when his manipulating in atomic level he couldn't put on his auto redirection firewall because it eats up his whole calculating ability . He could just touch the person and let his or her blood vessels explode. It will still results in death.

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On Accelerator's brain programing.
His manipulating the electrical signals in human brain. Also, he did not do it to the brain directly, as he can touch the brain.
What he did is manipulating the the electrical current of the neuros on the skin, and manipulate them in a way that'll cause a chain effect that can effect the electrical signals in the brain.
This is why doing so eats up so much of his calculation capacity, he has to calculate every next step of each eletrical signal on the skin surface that can eventually pass into brain and correct the brain's electrical pattern as he wish.


Accel could put some filters on it after seeing once or two but he needs to understand its process first and being a man of science I doubt he would understand it fast but maybe if index is around. If Accel's opponent are the Saints. Its a one hit kill move for both sides. Accel for having no clue on magic side couldn't put a full power filter on it and him by having physical contact with the enemy he could kill it. He could stand a chance but still slim but in black wings mode who knows though even in black wings mode Aqua and Aurelus will still be hard being a dual saint and the STRONGEST current mage alive.

As for Imagine Breaker. It only occupies the Fist. The holy stone is in the fist. So Airelous Izzard doesn't really need to cut of his whole right arm but Touma just say that his right arm can nullify anything without specifics on it so Izzard just cut off the whole arm.
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Old 2010-03-04, 08:51   Link #1915
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so imagine breaker is a holy stone after all? most likely keeps something sealed inside touma?
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Old 2010-03-04, 09:00   Link #1916
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Now that Accelerator vs Touma fight is brought back up. I did remember he was making weird sounds in that fight . Which makes me wonder if he was about to 'awaken' at that time since someone mentioned he was also producing weird sounds in his awakened form during his fight against Kakine. Then again, I don't know much about 'awaken' or what it takes for an esper to achieve that.

oh and isn't vol 20 going to be released this month?
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Old 2010-03-04, 10:12   Link #1917
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so imagine breaker is a holy stone after all?
Yup.

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Originally Posted by Bordix View Post
Now that Accelerator vs Touma fight is brought back up. I did remember he was making weird sounds in that fight . Which makes me wonder if he was about to 'awaken' at that time since someone mentioned he was also producing weird sounds in his awakened form during his fight against Kakine. Then again, I don't know much about 'awaken' or what it takes for an esper to achieve that.

oh and isn't vol 20 going to be released this month?
Weird sounds?
I don't know more about it than you but I think the situation that time wasn't enough to awaken him.
I imagine it's gotta take a really stressing and life threatening situation to uninentionally achieve that. (typical scenes where a char freaks out / gets owned badly and then unleashes overlimit mode)

And yeah it's gonna be released this month.
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Old 2010-03-04, 10:28   Link #1918
tsunade666
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Holy stone is from the magic side perspective but from the science side they call it gemstone or something. From Fianna's perspective it's a HOLY STONE but from Aleister's perspective its a GEMSTONE.

The weird sounds he produce back then when he tried to manipulate the atmosphere is his calculations in rapid speed. And I'm not sure too if he would awaken back then or not but its true he produced weird sound or like weird computation stuff or just mumbling stuff in awaken mode. The only one who could awaken are Accel and Kakine but Aiwass said touma could so maybe the complete imagine breaker is his awaken mode. Plus Aiwass compare kakine, touma and Accel in Egyptian Gods.
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Old 2010-03-04, 10:42   Link #1919
Bordix
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Weird sounds?
Yes, weird sounds. Try checking the part where he was forming plasma.

Quote:
I imagine it's gotta take a really stressing and life threatening situation to uninentionally achieve that. (typical scenes where a char freaks out / gets owned badly and then unleashes overlimit mode)
uhm, I think the fight fits well with your description.

I'm pretty sure he felt stress in that fight. Touma was hitting him despite the fact his reflection is on. That freaked him out and robbed him the ability to think logically and kept charging into Touma's fist. He almost died when he triggered that dust explosion and I'm pretty sure he got owned badly

again we don't know much about awaken and this could only be applicable for the 1st and 2nd, since well they're 'special' just like what tsunade666 said.

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And yeah it's gonna be released this month.
ah Sweet.
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Old 2010-03-04, 12:11   Link #1920
Vanish
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Yes, weird sounds. Try checking the part where he was forming plasma.
Ah, got it now.

Quote:
uhm, I think the fight fits well with your description.

...
True that... oh well. Who knows, maybe he was able to awaken because at that time he had a proper reason for living then (Last Order)?

Quote:
again we don't know much about awaken
That's why I find it fun discussing it.

Quote:
and this could only be applicable for the 1st and 2nd, since well they're 'special' just like what tsunade666 said.
Ah, not like I could imagine the other Level 5s awakening anyway. (Mugino would be badass though)



Speaking of Kakine, how come he was chosen for the Level 6 project but then got dropped (reason why he hated Acc)?D:
Only got that fact before, any detailed explanation for this?
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