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Old 2010-01-22, 10:18   Link #861
Neovoid
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There's something that's been bothering at the end of VC1. At the end, Irene Ellet's book stated that a truce has been declared between Gallia and the EEIA ending the 7 month conflict. However, it never states whether or not EWII has ended between the Feddies and and the Zekes... I mean Imps. I guess is that EWII might still be going on, but the Imperials never set foot on Gallia again (probably after learning Maximilian was invading Gallia just to use the nation and its resources as a front to backstab the Empire).
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Old 2010-01-22, 13:40   Link #862
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Originally Posted by Neovoid View Post
There's something that's been bothering at the end of VC1. At the end, Irene Ellet's book stated that a truce has been declared between Gallia and the EEIA ending the 7 month conflict. However, it never states whether or not EWII has ended between the Feddies and and the Zekes... I mean Imps. I guess is that EWII might still be going on, but the Imperials never set foot on Gallia again (probably after learning Maximilian was invading Gallia just to use the nation and its resources as a front to backstab the Empire).
There was no reason for the war between the Federation and the Alliance to end. A peace treaty between Gallia and the Alliance wouldn't stop the war between the other two powers. Valkyria Chronicles is about Gallia, so any continuation of the war between the Federation and the Alliance doesn't need to be mentioned at the end of the story. It's irrelevant as far as we're concerned. If Borg had been successful in creating his alliance then Gallia would still be fighting even after repelling Max's invasion force, but that didn't happen. The war ended as far as Gallia (and more importantly the player) was concerned, but it's clear that EWII as a whole is NOT over just because a small sovereign state (which seems to hold very little political power [if any] within the world) pulls out.
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Old 2010-01-22, 13:46   Link #863
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Originally Posted by DC20 View Post
There was no reason for the war between the Federation and the Alliance to end. A peace treaty between Gallia and the Alliance wouldn't stop the war between the other two powers. Valkyria Chronicles is about Gallia, so any continuation of the war between the Federation and the Alliance doesn't need to be mentioned at the end of the story. It's irrelevant as far as we're concerned. If Borg had been successful in creating his alliance then Gallia would still be fighting even after repelling Max's invasion force, but that didn't happen. The war ended as far as Gallia was concerned, but it's clear that EWII is NOT over just because a small sovereign state (which seems to hold very little political power [if any] within the world) pulls out.
Though, given VC's fairly idealistic POV, chances are the Empire will be defeated eventually. Since they strike me as an aggressor nation (see also: Iran, Russia, Nazi Germany), EWIII could break out at some point (if not a World War proper, if the East Europan Imperial Alliance desides Europa is too small).

Then again, as Imperial Russia (and the Soviet Union) demonstrated, nothing lasts forever. We could see VC3 or 4 pitting Gallia against a pact of Communist States (or, an expansionist Imperial break-away nation).
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Old 2010-01-22, 13:56   Link #864
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Though, given VC's fairly idealistic POV, chances are the Empire will be defeated eventually. Since they strike me as an aggressor nation (see also: Iran, Russia, Nazi Germany), EWIII could break out at some point (if not a World War proper, if the East Europan Imperial Alliance desides Europa is too small).

Then again, as Imperial Russia (and the Soviet Union) demonstrated, nothing lasts forever. We could see VC3 or 4 pitting Gallia against a pact of Communist States (or, an expansionist Imperial break-away nation).
Yeah, VC does have a very idealistic slant to it (one I unfortunately disagree with ), but you have to remember that from what little we're shown of the Federation they don't seem to be much better than the Empire. Pretty much what we see is that Gallia is "The Messiah" state - they can do no wrong (unless it's Judas's [err... Borg's] doing). It's surrounded by two big bastards who each have no qualms about using it for their own ends. While the Alliance started the war, if I remember right, the Federation isn't shown in a much better light.

I actually like that idea for a sequel, though. One possible idea could be that once EWII as a whole ends the future Gallian Prime Minister decides that their isolationist stance isn't working out for them (war has come twice in the past 30 years and devastated the country each time) and takes a more active role in world politics. Cue "Valkyria Chronicles: Insert Obvious Analog to Korea and/or Vietnam Here".
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Old 2010-01-22, 14:40   Link #865
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As Cmdr. Hill put it, " War's not about who's right, it's about who's still standin'."

Also, those smaller Fed nations - particularly those near the EESP - could also get swept up in a quasi-communist revolution, could they not? Various -SRs suddenly popping up from ex-Fed states could be cause for concern, along with Gallia's own GCP, and a fear of the EEPLA.

Lotsa acronyms, eh?
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Old 2010-01-22, 16:02   Link #866
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Originally Posted by RedShocktrooper View Post
As Cmdr. Hill put it, " War's not about who's right, it's about who's still standin'."

Also, those smaller Fed nations - particularly those near the EESP - could also get swept up in a quasi-communist revolution, could they not? Various -SRs suddenly popping up from ex-Fed states could be cause for concern, along with Gallia's own GCP, and a fear of the EEPLA.

Lotsa acronyms, eh?
Mr. Hill is absolutely right... unless we're talking about a war heavily inspired by anime, in which he would have MEANT to say, "War isn't about who's right, it's about who can best band together with their friends and - with the power of love - overcome actual physical power and save the day."

Heh, yeah. Lots of acronyms. I'm not familiar with GCP or EEPLA though... I assume EEPLA would be "East Europan People's Liberation Army"? In context with that in the sentence, GCP would be Gallia's equivalent to FARC-EP or the IRA? *Edit: Doh'. Just realized that's probably "Gallian Communist Party. Yeah? Either or?*

There could be many interesting political turns for the Alliance and the Federation. Obviously since the Alliance controls the territory that would be our Russia the imagery of a communist type revolution comes naturally. There isn't really any indication that there were any Marxist philosophies in Europa, but it wouldn't be a huge stretch. In fact that could be one possible end to EWII - the lower class (again, the condition of the proletariat within the Alliance isn't really stated, as it has nothing to do with the story of the game. Imagination only) overthrows the existing regime in something similar to the Russian Revolution in 1917, which ended WWI (for the Russian SFSR, at least). Then of course you get that whole fear of Communism BS. As Gallia is arguably within the Alliance's sphere of influence...

The Federation probably wouldn't have as direct an impact on Gallia. I would imagine that the weaker states within the union would want to stay, as while they probably wouldn't hold much influence within the Federation politically they would still benefit from its military and economic power. It wouldn't be a stretch to say that the only reason the border states within the Federation are still sovereign is that they have the military power of the Federation behind them to fend off the Alliance. Otherwise they'd have been steamrolled.

Another interesting idea that could potentially applied to both (especially the Alliance, as they're explicitly stated to be an empire) would be colonialism. Again, probably wouldn't affect Gallia itself a whole lot (at least in the beginning), but if either of the two major powers held colonies in, say, their equivalence of Africa or Asia there could be revolts there similar to the Boer wars and such. Then of course the remaining territories get chopped up and new lines are drawn after EWIII, leading to all sorts of ethnic, religious, and cultural strife within the regions. Hey, wait a second....
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Old 2010-01-22, 16:09   Link #867
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Well there are a lot of difference between WWII and EWII. One the causes of WWII was the Treaty of Versailles which blamed Germany for WWI, humiliated and bankrupt the entire country. And everyone pretty much knows the story how Hitler rose to power, convinced everyone in Germany that they the Aryans where the master race, used the Jews as a scapegoat, it was their destiny to rule all of Europe (and possibly the world), etc. etc. Also a lot of Historians consider WWII to be a "Better Sequel."

Unlike WWI, which was a power struggle set on by imperialism, nationalism, secret treaties, etc. A lot of people see WWII as a spectacular clash of good versus evil with the Axis being a evil alliance trying to take over the world and instigating several crimes against humanity. Just look at every video game made that takes place during WWII and usually the Allies are the protagonists (some would also argue that history is also written by the victors).

As for EWII, it just doesn't sound very exciting compared to WWII. According to the game encyclopedia, its pretty much just a continuation of EWI where the Federation and Empire had 20 year "Time Out" and then just continued slugging it out. EWI was a lot like WWI from the assassination of a key political figure to Trench Warfare and the introduction of tanks.

Also for Alternative WWIIs like C&C: Red Alert for example, I'm pretty sure RedShockTrooper could give a us a better explanation on how the hell the war started and why does the Soviets want to take over the world.
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Old 2010-01-22, 16:43   Link #868
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Also for Alternative WWIIs like C&C: Red Alert for example, I'm pretty sure RedShockTrooper could give a us a better explanation on how the hell the war started and why does the Soviets want to take over the world.
'It came to Stalin in a series of dreams...'

Red Alert's main story is sparked by Einstein building a time machine in 1946, and going back to kill Hitler in 1924, thus preventing the European WWII as we know it.

The WWII of Red Alert is caused when Stalin, having secured power in the 1950s, decides it is time to expand his borders, in essence making the idea of the EEIA older than VC itself - albiet, this EEIA is the USSR. This imperialistic Soviet Union also contains hints of Nazi Germany (also like the EEIA, though less obvious). Stalin eventually crosses the Soviet-Polish border, sending the Red Army marching through Europe, (in Allied canon) reaching as far as France before they are pushed back (Soviet canon dictates Soviet Victory, and 'Russia's Borders stretch from coast, to coast'). The Soviet motivation behind the invasion of Europe is Manifest Destiny (RA2 seems to be Revenge, and RA3 is unclear, since the war is halfway through when the Player starts)).

Also, DC, Commander Douglas Hill actually uses that line on the player in Red Alert 3: Uprising, which is not based on Anime (though, it does have a faction based on Anime... which, dictated by canon, is defeated), it's based on the Red Scare and corny B-Movies... and is much more cynical than VC is (hence, my belief that the Soviets could probably take Europa with their own forces: their existance in a more cynical - if loonier - timeline has made them more advanced in that respect. Building a horde of Apocalypse tanks in the field doesn't help, and how their faction music is often rendered as Heavy Metal really doesn't aid peacefulness - really, if you name tanks after the end of the world and roll into battle with a deathcore version of March of the Soviet Tankmen, you're probably killing for giggles.)

Also, right on the acronyms. GCP = Gallian Communist Party, EEPLA = East Europan People's Liberation Army.

The idea that Communist revolutionaries end up taking over the Federation's smaller states bordering with the former EEIA (The EECP, East Europan Communist Pact) comes from the Soviets funding the Communists in Spain. If similar was happening in Europa, the EECP would possibly aide them to get more allies (and the upper hand once EWIII roles along).

Also, that last part... wait... that sounds familiar... mixed with my 'Commie Imps', that could actually end up a Vietnam-esque rendition of WWII, which also lets us have 'VC: Modern Combat' and still have the original's style (Really, the Viet Cong didn't have 'uniforms' per se, though the NVA did.)
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Old 2010-01-22, 20:32   Link #869
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Well, the Soviet MBT is the KV-85, supplemented with the KV-110. The High-end tank is the IS-125-2, but we call them the Hammer, Rhino and Apocalypse tanks, respectively.
but the KV-85 was a real tank

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Google might be one place. Search for 'how to rip models from PS3 Games' or something.
on it, tihnk i might have more luck if i searched japanese sources too... they seem to be much more proactive when it comes to these things

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Well, I could end up using Tanya's voice for Alicia (and Rosie, Edy, Susie, etc), since it would make way more sense than clicking on any of the above and getting "SQUARED AWAY SIR! HOO-AH! YOU GOT IT! DIGGIN' IN!" wouldn't it? Also, for lulz: Clicking on Selvaria and getting "Conscript reportingk. Moving Out. Attacking... You are sure?". Speaking of that, I found a use for the lines for selecting wounded squadmembers. You'd hear Alicia going '...this can't be good...' at the same time a Conscript would go 'Mommy!'
yup, we're planning something similar. Umm does anyone have a list of all their lines? I have a list of all the lines in jpn, but i can't read it

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A fine counter to Soviet Conscript Spam. Albeit, the Alicia:Conscript ratio would be 1:10, and Conscripts never come one by one (so, if you have ten Alicias, a Soviet player could have 100 conscripts... enough to just overwhelm them).
oh yea, i forgot they have cloning machines

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I'd say 'aye', but I don't have Company of Heroes.
that could be arranged...maybe

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Originally Posted by RedShocktrooper View Post
Well, they work, don't they?
yea, but i want perfect quality xD ah well...close enough

Oh and I think they stole that quote from Bertrand Russell who once said, "War does not determine who is right - only who is left" amongst many other great quotes
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Old 2010-01-22, 21:33   Link #870
RedShocktrooper
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but the KV-85 was a real tank
Cookie for you. Of course, this could be different from the RA3 Hammer tank (or the RL KV85), since I'm going to use 'KV' as the Soviet MBTs (with the Hammer and Rhino acting as Light and Heavy, respectively), IS as the high-end stuff (ala Paradox), and T as the lighter stuff (so, the true Soviet counterpart to the LP-45 and GT-1 would be the T34/76. Fitting, given the Soviet's focus on Tanks.)

Quote:
on it, tihnk i might have more luck if i searched japanese sources too... they seem to be much more proactive when it comes to these things
Please do - and if you can get them converted to .3ds files, send them my way (I can get them converted to the files I need for RA2 units - .SHP for infantry and .VXL for vehicles)

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yup, we're planning something similar. Umm does anyone have a list of all their lines? I have a list of all the lines in jpn, but i can't read it
Well, I'll try to compile an English list.

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oh yea, i forgot they have cloning machines
Doesn't help that the Conscript is the most mass-producible unit in the game. 100 credits and 1-second build time? You can flood the map with them with just a barracks.

On a related note, I intend to have different versions of both the Gallian and Imperial troops for Regular and Elite (which will be a purchasable upgrade, thanks to the RockPatch and NPatch), and I figure I'd use the black coloration for Imperial Elite troops (coloring them red could cause mix-up with Soviet troops), and the Soviet equivilant, 'Advanced Armor', will actually change the .VXLs used by units produced from that point on to look heavier (extended barrels, bolt-on armor, different, dark brown color, to the lighter tan/green colors normally used), but what will the Gallians do (I was considering having the uniforms change to a 'Wehrmacht Gray', but that would be too Imperial/Soviet looking.)

Quote:
that could be arranged...maybe
What are you implying...?

Quote:
yea, but i want perfect quality xD ah well...close enough
You ripped them from a Youtube Vid, didn't you? Actually, I'll be honest, that was how I was going to try to get the sound bites anyway. Gun sounds would be ripped from other games (For instance, the Mags would end up with the 1942 MP40 sound, and the Gallian rifle would use the Garand sound files [minus 'ping']).

Quote:
Oh and I think they stole that quote from Bertrand Russell who once said, "War does not determine who is right - only who is left" amongst many other great quotes
Well, I heard Hill say it first, so I credit it to him - plus, it would be odd seeing S7 going up against Hill in, for instance, "Crate and Red Barrel:"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander Douglas Hill
See those red barrels? They're fulla candy. Go ahead and crack 'em open
Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Gallian
Candy?! Yay! Wait, this isn't ca- (boom)
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Old 2010-01-23, 01:43   Link #871
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Cookie for you. Of course, this could be different from the RA3 Hammer tank (or the RL KV85), since I'm going to use 'KV' as the Soviet MBTs (with the Hammer and Rhino acting as Light and Heavy, respectively), IS as the high-end stuff (ala Paradox), and T as the lighter stuff (so, the true Soviet counterpart to the LP-45 and GT-1 would be the T34/76. Fitting, given the Soviet's focus on Tanks.)
sounds good. wait, are the gallian tanks the same as the federation tanks in the VC canon? i remeber seeing something that suggests that...

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Please do - and if you can get them converted to .3ds files, send them my way (I can get them converted to the files I need for RA2 units - .SHP for infantry and .VXL for vehicles)
don't worry, i'll need to xD

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Well, I'll try to compile an English list.
thats great, thanks alot!

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Doesn't help that the Conscript is the most mass-producible unit in the game. 100 credits and 1-second build time? You can flood the map with them with just a barracks.
It's all fun and games until the air support or artillery gets fielded :P

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On a related note, I intend to have different versions of both the Gallian and Imperial troops for Regular and Elite (which will be a purchasable upgrade, thanks to the RockPatch and NPatch), and I figure I'd use the black coloration for Imperial Elite troops (coloring them red could cause mix-up with Soviet troops), and the Soviet equivilant, 'Advanced Armor', will actually change the .VXLs used by units produced from that point on to look heavier (extended barrels, bolt-on armor, different, dark brown color, to the lighter tan/green colors normally used), but what will the Gallians do (I was considering having the uniforms change to a 'Wehrmacht Gray', but that would be too Imperial/Soviet looking.)
Really? I thought wehrmacht grey was blu-ish, how would it look too imperial? Hmm how about the royal colour scheme? navy blue with crimson trim or whatever. the "royal" guns you get from cordellia - their colour scheme for elites. its a deeper blue than the standard colours i guess

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Originally Posted by RedShocktrooper View Post
What are you implying...?
oh, a little bit of everything

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Originally Posted by RedShocktrooper View Post
You ripped them from a Youtube Vid, didn't you? Actually, I'll be honest, that was how I was going to try to get the sound bites anyway. Gun sounds would be ripped from other games (For instance, the Mags would end up with the 1942 MP40 sound, and the Gallian rifle would use the Garand sound files [minus 'ping']).
haha, haven't resorted to that yet. xD ill show what i have so far soon

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Well, I heard Hill say it first, so I credit it to him - plus, it would be odd seeing S7 going up against Hill in, for instance, "Crate and Red Barrel:"...
i think the original comment was made around wwi or ii, don't recall, anyway, that mission was... well it was pretty funny, its RA afterall i think their inspiration came from some domino-style placed GLA demo traps from the days of generals
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Old 2010-01-23, 14:45   Link #872
RedShocktrooper
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sounds good. wait, are the gallian tanks the same as the federation tanks in the VC canon? i remeber seeing something that suggests that...
Gallian tanks strike me as too lightweight to be the 'middling' tanks used by the Federation. Though, I fear, in giving the Soviets the early model T-34, it being a Medium tank by both Imperial and Gallian standards, I've given them too much of an early game upper hand - not in the least aided by technological superiority (the Armor Type used by Valkyria will not resist Tesla weapons, so it's actually possible to kill Selvaria and Alicia - if you're Soviet).

Quote:
don't worry, i'll need to xD
So, I take it you'd need to covert to .3ds for the models to work with CoH? Well, it's better than modding Generals or RA3, where you have to convert the .3ds to .w3d or something, which is a $3,000 US program right there.

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It's all fun and games until the air support or artillery gets fielded :P
Actually, I've heard stories of people beating the Brutal A.I. with Conscript spam in RA2. And I can back those stories up - I'm a mediocre C&C player, and I've beat the Brutal AI with Conscript spam.

So, your Alicia Rush is going to have trouble.

Quote:
Really? I thought wehrmacht grey was blu-ish, how would it look too imperial? Hmm how about the royal colour scheme? navy blue with crimson trim or whatever. the "royal" guns you get from cordellia - their colour scheme for elites. its a deeper blue than the standard colours i guess.
We're not thinking of the same shade of grey, are we? The one I'm thinking of is this shade of light grey - which is too similar to the colors used by Early-game Imperial forces. Also, the darker, Navy blue color would be impossible - since the blue parts of the uniforms are going to recolor (that is, if Alicia is on the green team, her uniform will be green), since if I made the red parts recolor, I would have to make the Gallians the Red team to get it colored right - which, by the way, is the team used by the Soviets. Changing the color of the red trim to blue - or changing the team color to the red parts, and changing the color used by the rest of the uniform to the dark blue used by the '-R' weapons would work.

Quote:
oh, a little bit of everything
Arrrrrr, matey!

But, really, if I wanted to get CoH, I could probably talk my mom into letting me by it like I did Team Fortress 2, and it should be easier, since CoH is a RTS, and TF2 is a FPS.

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haha, haven't resorted to that yet. xD ill show what i have so far soon
I was also thinking of ripping the Vulcan cannon sound effect from C&C1 for a high-powered Soviet helicopter machine gun (it would be perfect for a KPV or GShG-7.62).

Also, should I include the Soviet Grenadier? I can probably find a .SHP for him, and I also found a potential Gallian counterpart to the Rhino, thanks to a voxeler who made a German Tiger Tank (with my own changes to color and appearance, it would work as a Gallian Heavy tank).

Quote:
i think the original comment was made around wwi or ii, don't recall, anyway, that mission was... well it was pretty funny, its RA afterall i think their inspiration came from some domino-style placed exploding barrels from as far back as C&C1.
Fix'd - having played all the games minus Sole Survivor, I actually think that Crate and Red Barrel draws from the Exploding Barrel than it does from the GLA Demotrap (though, the Demotrap WAS an exploding barrel...)
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It's more plausible than Alicia/Heavy, at least.
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Old 2010-01-23, 18:41   Link #873
SoggySoyBean
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Originally Posted by RedShocktrooper View Post
Gallian tanks strike me as too lightweight to be the 'middling' tanks used by the Federation. Though, I fear, in giving the Soviets the early model T-34, it being a Medium tank by both Imperial and Gallian standards, I've given them too much of an early game upper hand - not in the least aided by technological superiority (the Armor Type used by Valkyria will not resist Tesla weapons, so it's actually possible to kill Selvaria and Alicia - if you're Soviet).
According to VC canon, the shamrock is armed with a "Breda 24/75mm PaK mk. II cannon" depending on what you need you can bend its effectiveness since the name is so ambiguous, but the seeing as the actual gun of the tank is so small, the likelihood of it being effective AT is...nuts xD hmm, you could always give them scorpion rockets xD we're thinking of something like that...turret mounted Panzerfaust or smthn to boost anti armour capabilities

oh and apparently is capable of going 50 km/h =_=" someone didn't do their research

i always thought the shamrock was tiny, but then i see this picutre

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So, I take it you'd need to covert to .3ds for the models to work with CoH? Well, it's better than modding Generals or RA3, where you have to convert the .3ds to .w3d or something, which is a $3,000 US program right there.
3dx max can convert it to .w3d, or heck i can if you want- not sure about how friendly it is thought. i converted to or from .msh and it asploded and we have to reassemble the model

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Originally Posted by RedShocktrooper View Post
Actually, I've heard stories of people beating the Brutal A.I. with Conscript spam in RA2. And I can back those stories up - I'm a mediocre C&C player, and I've beat the Brutal AI with Conscript spam.
imba! xD

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Originally Posted by RedShocktrooper View Post
So, your Alicia Rush is going to have trouble.
they need all the help they can get actually, we're to ensure spamming won't be a valid strategy - ie. how well you can pump units onto the field will not matter as much as controlling them. but anyway as of now, their infantry needs to be buffed xD

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Originally Posted by RedShocktrooper View Post
We're not thinking of the same shade of grey, are we? The one I'm thinking of is this shade of light grey - which is too similar to the colors used by Early-game Imperial forces. Also, the darker, Navy blue color would be impossible - since the blue parts of the uniforms are going to recolor (that is, if Alicia is on the green team, her uniform will be green), since if I made the red parts recolor, I would have to make the Gallians the Red team to get it colored right - which, by the way, is the team used by the Soviets. Changing the color of the red trim to blue - or changing the team color to the red parts, and changing the color used by the rest of the uniform to the dark blue used by the '-R' weapons would work.
nope, guess we aren't nice pic btw.
o.o that's why we're completely ditching team colours
and your right, that does look too much like the soviet colours >.>
why do the soviets look gray? i always pictured them to be green or olive like in ra3. i mean, most of the cold war era equipment was green wasn't it?

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But, really, if I wanted to get CoH, I could probably talk my mom into letting me by it like I did Team Fortress 2, and it should be easier, since CoH is a RTS, and TF2 is a FPS.
original coh is actually pretty cheap on amazon right now, i can't recommend getting it from steam though - ppl with steam coh have trouble modding or smthn
although, you can get the complete collection of steam right now for 12.50 USD this weekend

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Originally Posted by RedShocktrooper View Post
I was also thinking of ripping the Vulcan cannon sound effect from C&C1 for a high-powered Soviet helicopter machine gun (it would be perfect for a KPV or GShG-7.62).

Also, should I include the Soviet Grenadier? I can probably find a .SHP for him, and I also found a potential Gallian counterpart to the Rhino, thanks to a voxeler who made a German Tiger Tank (with my own changes to color and appearance, it would work as a Gallian Heavy tank).
soviet grenadier?
i wonder if they got any new tanks in VC2...selection right now is rather limited eh? xD

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Fix'd - having played all the games minus Sole Survivor, I actually think that Crate and Red Barrel draws from the Exploding Barrel than it does from the GLA Demotrap (though, the Demotrap WAS an exploding barrel...)
My mistake i actually played generals before playing ra2 xD that was a long time ago...

Last edited by SoggySoyBean; 2010-01-23 at 19:13. Reason: updated prices
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Old 2010-01-23, 20:29   Link #874
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Originally Posted by SoggySoyBean View Post
According to VC canon, the shamrock is armed with a "Breda 24/75mm PaK mk. II cannon" depending on what you need you can bend its effectiveness since the name is so ambiguous, but the seeing as the actual gun of the tank is so small, the likelihood of it being effective AT is...nuts xD hmm, you could always give them scorpion rockets xD we're thinking of something like that...turret mounted Panzerfaust or smthn to boost anti armour capabilities
Well, the Allied Light Tank of Red Alert 1 had a 75mm cannon, and was the staple of Allied armored forces (until the Medium tank showed up, with its 105mm cannon). Though, the Light Tank's gun relied on rate of fire to kill, and since Soviet tanks are much heavier in RA2 than RA1, chances are the Shamrock will be reduced to an antibuilding/antipersonnel/antiaircraft role, since the cannon round would do negligable damage to Soviet tanks before the 'Advanced Armor' upgrade.

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oh and apparently is capable of going 50 km/h =_=" someone didn't do their research
More plausible than you think... that's only about 31 mph, which is slightly faster (by 1 mile) than the fastest Sherman tank variants (Israeli ones not withstanding). Since Europa seems to be ahead in tank development compared to our own timeline, I figure that by the time the Sherman entered service, tanks could match pace with the likes of the M18 Hellcat.

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i always thought the shamrock was tiny, but then i see this picutre
Tanks are not small. Unless they are French, or are actually Tankettes.

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3dx max can convert it to .w3d, or heck i can if you want- not sure about how friendly it is thought. i converted to or from .msh and it asploded and we have to reassemble the model
Well, once it does get converted, chances are it would be too high-res for Generals, so I might actually have to [insert illegal activity involving software here], so I can get the models to work with RA3 or Tiberium Wars... actually, seeing RA3 with VC's shaders actually sounds pretty cool (I mean, think of how the water would look!).

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imba! xD
Well, not quite. Conscripts rely on critical mass in order to do any degree of damage. Chances are, a Gallian player could have picked off a considerable amount of a Soviet player's conscripts before the poor buggers even come into firing range.

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they need all the help they can get actually, we're to ensure spamming won't be a valid strategy - ie. how well you can pump units onto the field will not matter as much as controlling them. but anyway as of now, their infantry needs to be buffed xD
I would think about placing build limits on units. I won't use them in my own mod (since half the strategy of playing as the Gallians vs. Soviets would be running down hordes of infantry and turning the Edelweiss a shade of crimson, and distracting Rhino tanks so lancers can kill them).

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o.o that's why we're completely ditching team colours
Well, the RA2 Voxels (and a fair amount of the freebie ones) have the recolor - besides, in a multiplayer match, it would be hard to tell your Alicia from that Alicia who's picking off your engineers, wouldn't it? I could see the rage now, so the blue parts of the uniforms will recolor, so people don't rip their hair out.


[QUOTE]and your right, that does look too much like the soviet colours >.>
why do the soviets look gray? i always pictured them to be green or olive like in ra3. i mean, most of the cold war era equipment was green wasn't it?[QUOTE]

True, and I have no idea why Westwood went with making Soviet vehicles normally gray in cutscenes (in game they are vastly different coloration, from bright red to tan/red), but they also made the Allies a lighter shade of gray (though, the Allies won't feature more than a few units who pop up to help you as a Gallian, so they don't warrant a faction).

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soviet grenadier?


He throws Grenades.

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i wonder if they got any new tanks in VC2...selection right now is rather limited eh? xD
They are - the tanks in VC2 resemble Italian light tanks more than they do German Mediums.

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My mistake i actually played generals before playing ra2 xD that was a long time ago...
Commander's Challenge as a whole is based on General's Challenge, though.
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Old 2010-01-25, 07:40   Link #875
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Originally Posted by RedShocktrooper View Post
Though, given VC's fairly idealistic POV, chances are the Empire will be defeated eventually.
My favorite part of the story was when they showed the Federation as a power just as reprehensible... just not as a part of this game. (The Capture the Princess sequence) While the WWII analogue would point to an eventual Federation victory... I have a feeling they don't want it to be quite that simple. I'd agree on the idealistic slant, but I think it's a little complicated too.
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Old 2010-01-25, 15:17   Link #876
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Originally Posted by spawnofthejudge View Post
My favorite part of the story was when they showed the Federation as a power just as reprehensible... just not as a part of this game. (The Capture the Princess sequence) While the WWII analogue would point to an eventual Federation victory... I have a feeling they don't want it to be quite that simple. I'd agree on the idealistic slant, but I think it's a little complicated too.
Well, who'd you rather root for? Nazi Knockoffs, or a corrupt version of NATO?

You're right on VC's idealistic slant. I will admit, it was quite refreshing for cold, cynical me, who'd been playing games on the cynical end of things (Before VC, I played the fairly cynical Command & Conquer series, normally as the Uber-Cynical factions [which normally doubled up as having the heaviest armor]). Another reason why, in a war between the VC and Red Alert universes, Red Alert (even if it had identical tech) would crush Gallia beneath all four of its treads - even the most idealistic side (the Allies) are cynical enough to use agressive strategies (such as classic Blitzkriegs).
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Old 2010-01-25, 20:10   Link #877
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Originally Posted by RedShocktrooper View Post
Well, the Allied Light Tank of Red Alert 1 had a 75mm cannon, and was the staple of Allied armored forces (until the Medium tank showed up, with its 105mm cannon). Though, the Light Tank's gun relied on rate of fire to kill, and since Soviet tanks are much heavier in RA2 than RA1, chances are the Shamrock will be reduced to an antibuilding/antipersonnel/antiaircraft role, since the cannon round would do negligable damage to Soviet tanks before the 'Advanced Armor' upgrade.
right, just remember its not all about calibre when it comes to penetration. so a specialist tank then...hmm so if you needed mediums i guess VC2 is always a possibility

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Originally Posted by RedShocktrooper View Post
More plausible than you think... that's only about 31 mph, which is slightly faster (by 1 mile) than the fastest Sherman tank variants (Israeli ones not withstanding). Since Europa seems to be ahead in tank development compared to our own timeline, I figure that by the time the Sherman entered service, tanks could match pace with the likes of the M18 Hellcat.
good point, i meant the edelwiess, which could reach 60 km/h with an 88? guess they wanted a jerry hellcat xD except it has much more than 8mm of side armour :P i think...meh, magic of ragnite hahaha

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Originally Posted by RedShocktrooper View Post
Tanks are not small. Unless they are French, or are actually Tankettes.
unless its 1940! Souma's were the most formidable.

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Originally Posted by RedShocktrooper View Post
Well, once it does get converted, chances are it would be too high-res for Generals, so I might actually have to [insert illegal activity involving software here], so I can get the models to work with RA3 or Tiberium Wars... actually, seeing RA3 with VC's shaders actually sounds pretty cool (I mean, think of how the water would look!).
you could always cut down on the quality of the models i guess, but modern graphics are easier on the eyes

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Originally Posted by RedShocktrooper View Post
Well, not quite. Conscripts rely on critical mass in order to do any degree of damage. Chances are, a Gallian player could have picked off a considerable amount of a Soviet player's conscripts before the poor buggers even come into firing range.
like deployed GI's then? even if you still had enough they'd all have vetted up by then

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Originally Posted by RedShocktrooper View Post
I would think about placing build limits on units. I won't use them in my own mod (since half the strategy of playing as the Gallians vs. Soviets would be running down hordes of infantry and turning the Edelweiss a shade of crimson, and distracting Rhino tanks so lancers can kill them).
yea we're thinking of limits and other ways to detter spam, but its really not neccessary for that faction, considering what infantry they will be fighting xD

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Originally Posted by RedShocktrooper View Post
Well, the RA2 Voxels (and a fair amount of the freebie ones) have the recolor - besides, in a multiplayer match, it would be hard to tell your Alicia from that Alicia who's picking off your engineers, wouldn't it? I could see the rage now, so the blue parts of the uniforms will recolor, so people don't rip their hair out.
hehe lucky us, our faction won't be fighting itself xD

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He throws Grenades.
oh. how concise xD

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Originally Posted by RedShocktrooper View Post
They are - the tanks in VC2 resemble Italian light tanks more than they do German Mediums.
i've seen tigers, italians and panzer III's so far, looks fairly promising xD

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Originally Posted by RedShocktrooper View Post
Well, who'd you rather root for? Nazi Knockoffs, or a corrupt version of NATO?
i don't think the imperials are inspired by the nazi's if thats what you mean. ethnicities seem to be distibuted, the most notable might be geography and armament...maybe...

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Old 2010-01-25, 21:42   Link #878
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Originally Posted by SoggySoyBean View Post
right, just remember its not all about calibre when it comes to penetration. so a specialist tank then...hmm so if you needed mediums i guess VC2 is always a possibility
Caliber plays a good part, though. Other things, such as velocity, play an important role, but since I assume the Allied Light Tank is more advanced than the Shamrock is, I could imagine that the Shamrock would be useless vs. the heavy armor used by the Soviets - but, if they can modify it to use either what looks to be a 12.7mm Four-barrel Machine Gun (such as the M16 mount), and a flamethrower, I imagine Zaka and Leon could figure out how to put a captured Tesla Coil on the tank

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good point, i meant the edelwiess, which could reach 60 km/h with an 88? guess they wanted a jerry hellcat xD except it has much more than 8mm of side armour :P i think...meh, magic of ragnite hahaha
The Edelwiess will probably be the most problematic thing for the Soviets - speed wise, it rivals the M1 Abrams and Leopard II. The Weapons and Tech thread (back on Page 2 of the forum) give indication that the Edelweiss is actually comperable to early Cold War tanks (hence, a reason in Battlefield Gallia why I consider having the Soviets deploy the T44, the gap between -34 and -54/55, since it could be seen as a Soviet Edelweiss of sorts).

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unless its 1940! Souma's were the most formidable.
That's a French tank. In RL, Germany made good use of leftover French tanks. Somuas served in the Wehrmacht for a good while, and FT-17's also saw use.

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you could always cut down on the quality of the models i guess, but modern graphics are easier on the eyes
Hence why I consider getting 3ds Max 9 from 'elsewhere' and making a VC to RA3 mod - some of the Orders would make for interesting Protocols.

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like deployed GI's then? even if you still had enough they'd all have vetted up by then
Though, getting Alicia, Rosie, Largo, and the Edelweiss and Shamrock to rank up will be hard - their 'cost' is still many times that of a Conscript.

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yea we're thinking of limits and other ways to detter spam, but its really not neccessary for that faction, considering what infantry they will be fighting xD
The Soviets will know no limits - the only one the Soviets will be limited by is the depth of your credit stash (to counter, Soviet units will either require horde bonuses like the Chinese in Generals, or be expensive).

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hehe lucky us, our faction won't be fighting itself xD
For the better - an RA2 modder has to plan ahead (perhaps I could turn to one of the Proto-Alicias for the actual multiplayer. The 'real' one with the red headscarf will be campaign only [which would also remove the brain strain of somehow getting Cloning Vats and having two Alicias anyway]).

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oh. how concise xD
What did you expect him to do? Pole-vault, tapdance, and be a mime?

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i've seen tigers, italians and panzer III's so far, looks fairly promising xD
Indeed - I see myself evolving the tank as close to the Apocalypse tank as I can get - including attempting to get a Double Barrel upgrade when there is none.

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i don't think the imperials are inspired by the nazi's if thats what you mean. ethnicities seem to be distibuted, the most notable might be geography and armament...maybe...
Darcsens are Jews, and the Imps want to kill all the Darcsens, right? Sound like the Final Solution? Though, the Imps also draw off Imperial Russia, as well.
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Old 2010-01-25, 23:13   Link #879
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Originally Posted by RedShocktrooper View Post
Caliber plays a good part, though. Other things, such as velocity, play an important role, but since I assume the Allied Light Tank is more advanced than the Shamrock is, I could imagine that the Shamrock would be useless vs. the heavy armor used by the Soviets - but, if they can modify it to use either what looks to be a 12.7mm Four-barrel Machine Gun (such as the M16 mount), and a flamethrower, I imagine Zaka and Leon could figure out how to put a captured Tesla Coil on the tank
considering how many, many wwii-era, and more, cannons use the same calibre, but use different ammo. oh and then the case of the KwK43 L71 88mm had about the same penetration as the 128mm on the jadgtiger, it just couldn't sustain its range-or even better the Panther's PaK40 75mm and T-34/85's 85mm and im sure countless other examples. but generally i guess so, eh just proceed with caution is what i mean.

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That's a French tank.

That's the point...

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Hence why I consider getting 3ds Max 9 from 'elsewhere' and making a VC to RA3 mod - some of the Orders would make for interesting Protocols.

Though, getting Alicia, Rosie, Largo, and the Edelweiss and Shamrock to rank up will be hard - their 'cost' is still many times that of a Conscript.

The Soviets will know no limits - the only one the Soviets will be limited by is the depth of your credit stash (to counter, Soviet units will either require horde bonuses like the Chinese in Generals, or be expensive).
yup, many possibilities- finding the best is worth it

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Originally Posted by RedShocktrooper View Post
For the better - an RA2 modder has to plan ahead (perhaps I could turn to one of the Proto-Alicias for the actual multiplayer. The 'real' one with the red headscarf will be campaign only [which would also remove the brain strain of somehow getting Cloning Vats and having two Alicias anyway]).
that's a great idea! im liking a certain proto more and more...

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What did you expect him to do? Pole-vault, tapdance, and be a mime?
Grenadiers can shoot too >.> xD i keep forgetting about the limits of RA2

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Indeed - I see myself evolving the tank as close to the Apocalypse tank as I can get - including attempting to get a Double Barrel upgrade when there is none.
we have a tri-cannon xD bring out the triple 88's! kekekee-maybe -.-

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Darcsens are Jews, and the Imps want to kill all the Darcsens, right? Sound like the Final Solution? Though, the Imps also draw off Imperial Russia, as well.
Well, the Darcsens can be seen as any minority group thats being persecuted, the burakumin in japan for example. and the darcsens were also persecuted by gallians weren't they? i read somewhere that it was a major plot in VC2...
I'm personally glad they mixed everything up, uniforms, names, weapon statistics, weapon designs, politics, etc. its not a good idea to associate them with historical ones imo
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Old 2010-01-25, 23:39   Link #880
RedShocktrooper
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Originally Posted by SoggySoyBean View Post
considering how many, many wwii-era, and more, cannons use the same calibre, but use different ammo. oh and then the case of the KwK43 L71 88mm had about the same penetration as the 128mm on the jadgtiger, it just couldn't sustain its range-or even better the Panther's PaK40 75mm and T-34/85's 85mm and im sure countless other examples. but generally i guess so, eh just proceed with caution is what i mean.
The Shamrock's gun isn't very long, so the 75mm rounds leaving it's gun are probably going pretty slow. I feel that the Shamrock (and GT-1s as a whole) are ment to get behind enemy tanks and shoot the radiators, a weakness Soviet tanks lack by default. Even more of an upper hand... let's see:
  • Soviet units can be spammed. Neither the Gallians or Imperials can do that.
  • Soviet Tanks have no 'radiator', and are much tougher than Gallian and Imperial ones.
  • Soviet upgrades can actually offset the advantages posed by the Elite upgrades for the Gallians and Imperials (though, applied to tanks rather than infantry).
  • Soviet stuff is either slow and expensive, or cheap and weak, and easy to replace.
  • The Soviets can kill Valkyrian Units (Valkyria Selvaria, AVTs, Valkyria Alicia) with Tesla weapons - a staplemark of the Support units in the Red Army Arsenal.
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yup, many possibilities- finding the best is worth it
Hard Part being how to get the Soviets balanced without making them un-Red Alert-ish.

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that's a great idea! im liking a certain proto more and more...
Let me guess: one of the Proto-Alicias will find a use in your own mod. I figure less red headscarfs will be running around.

Might I ask, which one?

EDIT: I'm considering using a slight trick in this (if only to amuse myself with the idea of multiple Alicias), in having the Proto-Alicia vary depending on the Player's faction (for instance, the Gallian Proto would be the 'real' Alicia with a recolor headscarf, the Soviet would be one of the ones at the upper right corner of Alicia's 3rd page [with a different haircolor - perhaps a redhead?], and perhaps the Imperial one could be the Garrison Cap Alicia seen on the last page [again, with a different haircolor - I often wonder what Alicia would look like as a bonde]).

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Grenadiers can shoot too >.> xD i keep forgetting about the limits of RA2
Grenadiers are also overpowered - they're all-purpose, anyway. I don't need to give them a gun, they have those Anti-Armor/Anti-Building/Anti-Infantry impact grenades (which would offset 'dodging/suppression' considerably - though, perhaps they will be useless vs. Lancers, because of the blast suits.)

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we have a tri-cannon xD bring out the triple 88's! kekekee-maybe -.-
Triple 88mm? I prefer twin 125mm, or twin 140mm. The Generals: Contra mod gives us eight barrels 140mm Gatling, two 140mm + flamethrower, etc.

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I'm personally glad they mixed everything up, uniforms, names, weapon statistics, weapon designs, politics, etc. its not a good idea to associate them with historical ones imo
There's still counterparts, though. The Federation is a corrupt NATO, and the Empire is Nazi Germany, Imperial Russia and the Soviet Union. Gallia is a Germanic little country caught in the middle.
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It's more plausible than Alicia/Heavy, at least.

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