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View Poll Results: Who are your favorite characters?
Alto Saotome 202 36.59%
Sheryl Nome 388 70.29%
Ranka Lee 159 28.80%
Brera Sterne 75 13.59%
Ozma Lee 127 23.01%
Cathy Glass 62 11.23%
Klan Klan 203 36.78%
Mikhail Blanc (aka Michel) 156 28.26%
Luca Angeloni 24 4.35%
Nanase Matsuura 23 4.17%
Canaria Berstein 18 3.26%
Leon Mishima 13 2.36%
Howard Glass 6 1.09%
Grace O'Connor 41 7.43%
Bobby Margot 61 11.05%
Nene Rora 14 2.54%
Raramia Rerenia 13 2.36%
Jeffrey Wilder 18 3.26%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 552. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2010-10-08, 05:24   Link #1481
TwilightHack
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Here's the scoop.

TV Minmay = ...not so good. Clingy, childish, annoying.
DYRL Minmay = Win... Sheryl likeness.
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Old 2010-10-08, 05:28   Link #1482
Yot-chan
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Originally Posted by TwilightHack View Post
Here's the scoop.

TV Minmay = ... not so good.
DYRL Minmay = Win...
Further scoop:

TV Minmay was awesome.
DYRL Minmay was awesome.
Macross the First Minmay is super-awesome.
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Old 2010-10-08, 08:01   Link #1483
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I continue to disagree.
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Old 2010-10-08, 08:06   Link #1484
Natsuki Hyuga
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I have to say though that while I don't like TV Series Minmay, I really think she was adorable even back when I only know of the TV version (... Minus the clinginess and... Stuffs. They irked me at best, bless my young heart!) It doesn't help that imo she has the best design among Mikimoto Haruhiko's creations. The Jenius/Genius family fans will definitely disagree with me though

Don't get me wrong, I love Misa more, but I can't deny there is this adorable charm, even from her appearance alone. I definitely can see why lots of Asians don't hate her, and why she is so iconic and influental. It NEARLY tempts me to buy Macross the 1st in Kino, but I need to save money for December oh ho~
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Old 2010-10-08, 08:25   Link #1485
Yot-chan
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I'm not really sure what Natsuki and TwilightHack mean by "clinginess"...from my observation, most of the criticism of TV Minmay centers around her unwillingness to see Hikaru as anything more than friend (which, incidentally, seems more like his fault than hers..."She's just not that into you, Hikaru...but hey! Check out that totally wonderful commanding officer you've got! No? You'd rather be miserable? Okay, suit yourself." And ditto his constant mooning over Minmay in the latter portion of the show; she has no idea it's even going on. She never led him on or teased him knowingly...she's quite honorable in that way).

The only time she gets clingy is in episodes 35 and 36, and that's just temporary...her popularity's down, her dick cousin/boyfriend/manager walked out on her (and good riddance), and she's lost her purpose...so yeah, she's weak, vulnerable, and gets somewhat manipulative. But she gets over it by the end of the episode.

(Sheryl had a similar "clingy" moment, too...it just happens that Yasuburo was available at the time and Alto wasn't...)
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Old 2010-10-08, 08:35   Link #1486
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??? How did Sheryl being down because she just got news that she is going to die, compare in any way or form with Minmay trying to steal another womans man?

And, yeah, Hikaru was a fricking idiot.
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Old 2010-10-08, 08:56   Link #1487
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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
??? How did Sheryl being down because she just got news that she is going to die, compare in any way or form with Minmay trying to steal another womans man?
"Another woman's man"? Were Hikaru and Misa dating? No. She came to his house, cleaned it for him, did everything, and he STILL mooned over pictures of Minmay all day. He never mentioned Misa to Minmay, he made sure he seemed "available" in case she ever changed her mind...hell, she didn't even live in the same CITY that they did (and, you may remember, Kaifun refused to go to Macross City), and she hadn't seen him in nearly two years.

So, if she tried to steal another woman's man...you gotta admit that the man put himself in a position to be stolen QUITE easily.

And the comparison to Sheryl still stands. Sheryl's career is in the toilet, and she discovers she's dying, so she needs a little tea and sympathy from people who love her. Minmay's career was likewise in the toilet, and she discovers that she no longer has a purpose in life...so she also needs some assistance. It's normal, and it happens to everyone at some time or another. Condemning someone who's dealing with a serious crisis as "clingy" seems needlessly heartless to me.

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And, yeah, Hikaru was a fricking idiot.
Gah, yes. I wanted to strangle the moron...

Still do, actually.
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Old 2010-10-08, 09:29   Link #1488
Natsuki Hyuga
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I just can't find the right word to put her actions in those episodes, but yeah basically you answered your own question for me~ It doesn't help that it happens in the penultimate episode, where you would think they would have already developed and can realize sooner that about the others role and stuffs and not make demanding request.

By the way Yottchin, in my case this "clinginess" isn't really what makes me like Misa better than Minmay, it just irked me since we are on the final episode yet she still be... Selfish? in a way. I never stated that I dislike Minmay after all~ But hey, when she came to the realization and sings, my irking period-- errr, I mean, the drama pays off for me!

In regards to the comparison Sheryl, I will plead for silence Personally it is moot to compare similar situations when both characters have different determination. That and I will avoid to trust my rusty brain >_O And my brain has already stopped with that friggin' essay today... Why am I killing myself with literature analysis again?
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Old 2010-10-08, 09:40   Link #1489
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Originally Posted by Natsuki Hyuga View Post
I just can't find the right word to put her actions in those episodes, but yeah basically you answered your own question for me~ It doesn't help that it happens in the penultimate episode, where you would think they would have already developed and can realize sooner that about the others role and stuffs and not make demanding request.

By the way Yottchin, in my case this "clinginess" isn't really what makes me like Misa better than Minmay, it just irked me since we are on the final episode yet she still be... Selfish? in a way. I never stated that I dislike Minmay after all~ But hey, when she came to the realization and sings, my irking period-- errr, I mean, the drama pays off for me!
Minmay can't catch a break, can she? She's slammed for not seeing Hikaru "that way," and then she gets slammed for finally showing an interest in him (and moving in with him, just like Sheryl and Alto ).

My entire problem with the latter episodes is that the love triangle (which despite getting a lot of praise, never seemed like much of a triangle to me, since Minmay was mostly unaware that she was part of it, and was rarely a participant) the love triangle should've been closed (hell, WAS closed) at the end of episode 27...and the only way Hiroshi Ohnogi could crack it back open was to have the characters act like total idiots.

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Originally Posted by Natsuki Hyuga View Post
And my brain has already stopped with that friggin' essay today... Why am I killing myself with literature analysis again?
Because it's FUN!
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Old 2010-10-08, 10:00   Link #1490
Natsuki Hyuga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
My entire problem with the latter episodes is that the love triangle (which despite getting a lot of praise, never seemed like much of a triangle to me, since Minmay was mostly unaware that she was part of it, and was rarely a participant) the love triangle should've been closed (hell, WAS closed) at the end of episode 27...and the only way Hiroshi Ohnogi could crack it back open was to have the characters act like total idiots.
Can't argue with it much, and I would let people who has better memory than me to prove otherwise /needs sleep orz ;_;

And hey, look at the positive light, we should be happy that the next 9 episodes brings drama with that triangle and boosts Macross popularity! We got all these sequels and Valkyries because of the large interest from the audience~

Quote:
Because it's FUN!
Says the person who has been and is translating the great wall'o kanjis for Macross~
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Old 2010-10-08, 10:05   Link #1491
Yot-chan
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Originally Posted by Natsuki Hyuga View Post
Can't argue with it much, and I would let people who has better memory than me to prove otherwise /needs sleep orz ;_;

And hey, look at the positive light, we should be happy that the next 9 episodes brings drama with that triangle and boosts Macross popularity! We got all these sequels and Valkyries because of the large interest from the audience~
I dunno...the reaction to the last episodes seems...mixed, at best. Even among the staff for the show.

Overall, I have to say that I like them...but there are some aspects I wish were done better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natsuki Hyuga View Post
Says the person who has been and is translating the great wall'o kanjis for Macross~
And who majored in lit at university. It got to the point where I could write an "A-" 10-page paper in three hours or less. Often on the morning when it was due.
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Old 2010-10-08, 11:28   Link #1492
Shiroth
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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
Macross the First Minmay is super-awesome.
True fact is true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natsuki Hyuga View Post
It doesn't help that imo she has the best design among Mikimoto Haruhiko's creations.
I'm glad we can agree on this :3. Also if you haven't checked out Macross the First, do so now! I'm gonna have to pass on a few images your way~
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Old 2010-10-08, 12:39   Link #1493
magnuskn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
"Another woman's man"? Were Hikaru and Misa dating? No. She came to his house, cleaned it for him, did everything, and he STILL mooned over pictures of Minmay all day. He never mentioned Misa to Minmay, he made sure he seemed "available" in case she ever changed her mind...hell, she didn't even live in the same CITY that they did (and, you may remember, Kaifun refused to go to Macross City), and she hadn't seen him in nearly two years.

So, if she tried to steal another woman's man...you gotta admit that the man put himself in a position to be stolen QUITE easily.
Oh, as I said, Hikaru was an utter ass towards Misa. He should count himself lucky that she was so forbearing on him.

But you can't tell me Minmay didn't know that Misa loved Hikaru... just appearing and out and out trying to woo him away because she is feeling lonely is not right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
And the comparison to Sheryl still stands. Sheryl's career is in the toilet, and she discovers she's dying, so she needs a little tea and sympathy from people who love her. Minmay's career was likewise in the toilet, and she discovers that she no longer has a purpose in life...so she also needs some assistance. It's normal, and it happens to everyone at some time or another. Condemning someone who's dealing with a serious crisis as "clingy" seems needlessly heartless to me.
Uh, how exactly did Sheryl ask for tea and sympathy? By collapsing in the street? Yep, Altos brother took her to the family house. But not because he was in such a generous mood, but because it would bring Alto back to his family!

Dude, you are way off here. Sheryl surely did appreciate being given a place to stay, but she didn't go on a whining session with Yasaburo. He came to her to give a lecture about how great it is to be on stage, because his obsession was with getting Alto back into the family business.
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Old 2010-10-08, 17:35   Link #1494
Yot-chan
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[QUOTE=magnuskn;3287493]Oh, as I said, Hikaru was an utter ass towards Misa. He should count himself lucky that she was so forbearing on him.

But you can't tell me Minmay didn't know that Misa loved Hikaru...[/QUOTE}
That's EXACTLY what I'm telling you. Hikaru went out of his way not to mention her to Minmay, and Minmay hadn't seen him in two years. How was she supposed to know? And WHAT was she supposed to know? Hikaru and Misa weren't dating. SHE liked HIM, but he wasn't letting himself give in to his own feelings. Minmay saw them together a grand total of twice, once when he was hugging Minmay. Both times, Hikaru was completely and utterly dismissive of Misa in favor of Minmay.

So, first: Hikaru was single at the time.
Second, Hikaru went out of his way to make sure Minmay knew as little as possible about Misa.
Third, Hikaru and Minmay hadn't been in contact in two years.
Fourth, both times Minmay saw them together, Hikaru all but shoved Misa aside to pay attention to Minmay.
I'm not seeing what Minmay did that was so unethical here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
just appearing and out and out trying to woo him away because she is feeling lonely is not right.
And why not? Yes, there's no way they could possibly make it work in the long term, but sometimes you gotta try it out to see that.

And if you're saying Minmay should've stayed away because she somehow intuitively grasped that Misa loved Hikaru, even though she was responding to that love, then I could say the same about Sheryl moving in on Alto, when she knew very well that Ranka liked him.

The real problem, I think, is that nearly everyone watching the show REALLY, REALLY WANTS Hikaru and Misa to get together at this point. And who's standing in the way? Minmay. So she gets all the flak, even though there are tons of things she doesn't know, and that Hikaru is actively hiding from her. I don't think it's fair to blame her for stuff she has no way of knowing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
Uh, how exactly did Sheryl ask for tea and sympathy? By collapsing in the street? Yep, Altos brother took her to the family house. But not because he was in such a generous mood, but because it would bring Alto back to his family!

Dude, you are way off here. Sheryl surely did appreciate being given a place to stay, but she didn't go on a whining session with Yasaburo. He came to her to give a lecture about how great it is to be on stage, because his obsession was with getting Alto back into the family business.
You're missing my point, I think. Sheryl was in a crisis, and needed support. Minmay was also in a crisis, and also needed support. If you're gonna criticize one for being "clingy," then you gotta criticize the other. Me, I criticize neither.
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Old 2010-10-08, 17:55   Link #1495
moncikoma
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Minmay : CUTE,MOE,ICONIC
Sheryl : CUTE, MOE,HOT,TSUNDERE,CLASSY!

Sheryl is has more package as an idol..
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Old 2010-10-08, 23:35   Link #1496
Dash_Hunter
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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
You're missing my point, I think. Sheryl was in a crisis, and needed support. Minmay was also in a crisis, and also needed support. If you're gonna criticize one for being "clingy," then you gotta criticize the other. Me, I criticize neither.
There's just one difference, when Sheryl was still popular and at the top of her career, she searched for Alto, she wanted to be close to him but he didn't notice most of her advances. Then when she is told that she is going to die the first thing she decided was not to tell Alto, she didn't want to be a burden and to have his sympathy.

On the other hand, Minmay never wanted to have a relationship with Hikaru (and no, i don't blame her for not liking Hikaru the same way he wanted), but then when she start having her crisis she went looking for him.
To me at least it appeared that minmay thought something like "oh no my career is not going well, and i'm having problems, what should i do? oh yeah Hikaru! he always liked me, i haven't see him too much in these two years but i'm sure he will receive me"

And it happened just when Hikaru was starting to overcome his Minmay obsession a little, he started to notice Misa more and I remember them to have a date to eat lunch together or something and Misa ended up giving the food she prepared to a dog

I don't hate Minmay, i like her design but i don't like her character too much to be honest, i think Misa is much better even if she's not as iconic in the franchise as Minmay.
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Old 2010-10-09, 02:03   Link #1497
magnuskn
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Yeah, what Dash Hunter just said. Saves me having to type up a post.

But you are still misreading what Sheryl did, Yot. Sheryl needed support, true. But, unlike Minmay, she didn't seek it by throwing a pity party. She explicitly pushed Alto away at that point, because she a.) did indeed not want to be clingy and b.) did not want his pity.
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Old 2010-10-09, 07:34   Link #1498
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Clingy : spoiled brat right? I don't really good at english... Sorry
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Old 2010-10-09, 07:59   Link #1499
magnuskn
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Well, not exactly. More like someone who tries to latch onto someone else for emotional support.

Which doesn't describe Sheryl at all during her personal crisis ( until Alto promised to take care of her in ep 22, that is. But that is not what we are talking about here.).
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Old 2010-10-09, 10:12   Link #1500
moncikoma
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Ooo... Of course not lahhh yaaa...

Sheryl is 100% fall in love with Alto... A true and serious love
While ranka love to alto is like "cinta monyet"

Cinta monyet in Indonesia means : elementary school love...or not serious.
Ranka is not mature enough to experiance deep love with ALTO...
I think Alto think of her as an imouto...X3
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