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Old 2013-09-16, 02:05   Link #101
Scherzo09
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Originally Posted by Empress Ayeka View Post
I've always wondered about the structure of the Imperial Family; I mean, the Emperor i supposed to have 108 wives. How does that work? Do all of them have their own house like Marianne? And how many kids does he have?

Plus, how does the ranking and succession go? Is it just age or something else?
I've sort felt that they might not actually be wives but instead Concubines who the Emperor has deemed worthy of siring heirs from. The British Monarchs always were trying to break down the definition of Marriage in order to secure their heredity; that's why Henry VIII created the Church of England to begin with, and during the succession crisis over James II (a Catholic who was moving too close with the Catholic Monarch in France)'s, Protestants recommended that Charles II's bastard son Duke of Monmouth take the throne instead of James. Since in this timeline the heir to Elizabeth was a bastard child, and I believe the first heir of Britannia after Hector was a bastard too, there'd be historical precedent for not needing a wedding to sire a legitimate heir. So I think taking as many partners as he or she wants is an Imperial perogative. Likewise, its likely that the line of succession is drafted by the sitting Emperor or Empress itself, maybe with the rubber stamp approval of Parliament and the Imperial Senate.

As for children I would guess upwards of 30 but probably not higher than 40 or 50 ( I know OZ has a princess being the 88th Princess of Britannia but since there's nothing that high in the series I just want to ignore it for simplicty's sake). Just because the Concubines are designated as being able to sire heirs doesn't mean all of them do.

Also I don't think that Britannia should necessarily be considered Atheistic; turn of the century progressives could easily link class and racial stratification with both divine mandate and scientific progress. An example that comes to my mind is Columbia from Bioshock Infinite, which to me is kind of a good place to start when imagining what Britannian society would be like (plus of course the Noble Aristocracy).
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Old 2013-09-16, 22:41   Link #102
kaiser11492
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Originally Posted by Scherzo09 View Post
I've sort felt that they might not actually be wives but instead Concubines who the Emperor has deemed worthy of siring heirs from. The British Monarchs always were trying to break down the definition of Marriage in order to secure their heredity; that's why Henry VIII created the Church of England to begin with, and during the succession crisis over James II (a Catholic who was moving too close with the Catholic Monarch in France)'s, Protestants recommended that Charles II's bastard son Duke of Monmouth take the throne instead of James. Since in this timeline the heir to Elizabeth was a bastard child, and I believe the first heir of Britannia after Hector was a bastard too, there'd be historical precedent for not needing a wedding to sire a legitimate heir. So I think taking as many partners as he or she wants is an Imperial perogative. Likewise, its likely that the line of succession is drafted by the sitting Emperor or Empress itself, maybe with the rubber stamp approval of Parliament and the Imperial Senate.

As for children I would guess upwards of 30 but probably not higher than 40 or 50 ( I know OZ has a princess being the 88th Princess of Britannia but since there's nothing that high in the series I just want to ignore it for simplicty's sake). Just because the Concubines are designated as being able to sire heirs doesn't mean all of them do.

Also I don't think that Britannia should necessarily be considered Atheistic; turn of the century progressives could easily link class and racial stratification with both divine mandate and scientific progress. An example that comes to my mind is Columbia from Bioshock Infinite, which to me is kind of a good place to start when imagining what Britannian society would be like (plus of course the Noble Aristocracy).
Though many in the line of succession are probably the biological children of Emperor Charles, the other members could simply be from different branches and could be in line should the main line go extinct. In Imperial Japan, you had the seshū shinnōke, four cadet branches that could produce a legitimate heir should no male heir be found in the main line. As a result, many of the Royal Princes and Princesses in the Japanese Imperial Family were not the children of the sitting Emperor, but instead were distant relatives.
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Old 2013-09-16, 22:57   Link #103
Scherzo09
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I'm not saying Charles couldn't have chosen a successor who was his nephew or brother or cousin or whatever. But Britannian culture seems to pride direct lineage and they seem to have given the Imperial Throne the prerogative to sire as many children as he deems fit in order to secure his bloodline.
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Old 2013-09-16, 23:40   Link #104
Fireminer
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There is this matter that I'm wondering. If a noble house have too much childs, so the number of titles and property they could passed down only reached to the oldest. So would there be the case of the younger must go to the military in hope of a title, while the older stay behind?
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Old 2013-09-17, 06:17   Link #105
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There is this matter that I'm wondering. If a noble house have too much childs, so the number of titles and property they could passed down only reached to the oldest. So would there be the case of the younger must go to the military in hope of a title, while the older stay behind?
Well that's where the whole notion of 'second sons' comes from; it was that way in real life with the noble british sons who weren't in line to succeed to the noble titles would go and try to make a name for themselves in the colonial service.

Of course I think that siring children with that many people is strictly an imperial prerogative, and wouldn't generally be practiced by regular nobility.
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Old 2013-09-17, 07:56   Link #106
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Another problem: If they conquer another Mornachy, would Brittania does use its own king as a front (like French to Vietnam)? Since they have no trouble with Kirihara and Japanese Throne, so that is also a posibility.
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Old 2013-09-17, 10:05   Link #107
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Another problem: If they conquer another Mornachy, would Brittania does use its own king as a front (like French to Vietnam)? Since they have no trouble with Kirihara and Japanese Throne, so that is also a posibility.
I don't believe the Japanese monarchy is ever referenced in the show. In fact it seems like they don't even have one. We know that they had a Prime Minister and that Kirihara and the other Six Houses of Kyoto had much economic power behind the scenes in Japan before and after Britannian rule.

When you think about it, the Japanese monarchy is never mentioned or depicted in anime. I can not think of any anime where a Japanese monarch had appeared on screen, even for a cameo. I have seen some shows reference the monarchy, but that's the closest I've ever seen in anime.
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Old 2013-09-17, 13:28   Link #108
Scherzo09
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Yeah like Kaiser said, there's no indication that there is a Monarchy in Japan. Supplemental materials I believe say that Japan became a Republic after a war in the Pacific in the 40s; my best guess would be a colonial struggle between the Japanese and Britannian Empires over the Philippines.

The Kyoto House is just an informal aristocracy, a powerful cabal of Zaibatsu who outwardly collaborated with the Britannian government. They aren't actually royalty.

Anyways even if it did have a Monarchy, I doubt the Britannians would have respected it. The French allowed the illusion of Self-Rule in Indochina because they had a long term view of Assimilating the native peoples. Britannia it appears is working on a much tighter schedule, as they go to great lengths to destroy conquered cultures in order to expedite assimilation. A position with such strong cultural significance, and especially with Pagan worship, would be a no-go.

I don't mind the forced assimilation angle, or prejudice against Honorary Britannians, but I reeeeally wish they'd handled it with more subtlety. Cornelia talking about working with Kyoto House to bring Area 11 to the capacity of limited self-rule was one of the few smart things I saw about the relations between the Britannian Occupiers and the Elevens. tl;dr, Britannian occupation should be pretty callous and exploitative, but it shouldn't be as cartoonishly evil.

I think the American Occupation of the Philippines to me would give a good gamut of a lot of opinions Britannian soldiers would have: http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/58/
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Old 2013-09-17, 19:50   Link #109
Aquaman OS
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Originally Posted by kaiser11492 View Post
When you think about it, the Japanese monarchy is never mentioned or depicted in anime. I can not think of any anime where a Japanese monarch had appeared on screen, even for a cameo. I have seen some shows reference the monarchy, but that's the closest I've ever seen in anime.
That's because the Emperor of Japan is a very respected and revered figure over there and is only to be depicted in historical context only. They are NEVER to show a fictional Japanese Emperor in any medium.

That's why the Simpsons episode where they meet the emperor of Japan is banned over there.
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Old 2013-09-17, 19:59   Link #110
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I think though it also kinda shows how little a factor the Emperor plays in Japanese Society that he can be so separated from any social interpretation of him.
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Old 2013-09-17, 20:09   Link #111
Fireminer
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Oh, that wonder me why haven't Zero try to use historical and religious figures in order to raising both morale and reputation for his cause?
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Old 2013-09-18, 02:52   Link #112
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
That's because the Emperor of Japan is a very respected and revered figure over there and is only to be depicted in historical context only. They are NEVER to show a fictional Japanese Emperor in any medium.

That's why the Simpsons episode where they meet the emperor of Japan is banned over there.
I believe Sunrise made it clear that they erased the royal family of Japan from history because when Japan was conquered, they would be the first to be executed. And that's just too politically sensitive. Instead we have a pseudo-princess who is a royal in all but name as a replacement.
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Old 2013-09-22, 13:21   Link #113
Empress Ayeka
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Originally Posted by Scherzo09 View Post
I've sort felt that they might not actually be wives but instead Concubines who the Emperor has deemed worthy of siring heirs from. The British Monarchs always were trying to break down the definition of Marriage in order to secure their heredity; that's why Henry VIII created the Church of England to begin with, and during the succession crisis over James II (a Catholic who was moving too close with the Catholic Monarch in France)'s, Protestants recommended that Charles II's bastard son Duke of Monmouth take the throne instead of James. Since in this timeline the heir to Elizabeth was a bastard child, and I believe the first heir of Britannia after Hector was a bastard too, there'd be historical precedent for not needing a wedding to sire a legitimate heir. So I think taking as many partners as he or she wants is an Imperial perogative. Likewise, its likely that the line of succession is drafted by the sitting Emperor or Empress itself, maybe with the rubber stamp approval of Parliament and the Imperial Senate.

As for children I would guess upwards of 30 but probably not higher than 40 or 50 ( I know OZ has a princess being the 88th Princess of Britannia but since there's nothing that high in the series I just want to ignore it for simplicty's sake). Just because the Concubines are designated as being able to sire heirs doesn't mean all of them do.

Also I don't think that Britannia should necessarily be considered Atheistic; turn of the century progressives could easily link class and racial stratification with both divine mandate and scientific progress. An example that comes to my mind is Columbia from Bioshock Infinite, which to me is kind of a good place to start when imagining what Britannian society would be like (plus of course the Noble Aristocracy).
Since Marianne is referred to as an empress, it would seem like they are legal wives.

As for the number of kids, Nunnally mentions, when she is inaugurated as Viceroy, that she is 87th in line for the throne. Unless Charles has other relatives who are somehow higher in the succession than his own children, that would imply he has at least that many, and since Carine is supposed to be younger than Nunnally, he could have many more.

But even as I say that, I'm reminded Nunnally is supposed to be the 4th Princess, which would make her fourth daughter, so for her to be 87th, that means Charles has way more sons than daughters, and several of them are older than Nunnally. Considering the age difference between her and Lelouch, who is 11th Prince and 17th in line, is only 3 years, it means Charles must have really been, um, siring some heirs in those three years.....
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Old 2013-09-22, 13:27   Link #114
Empress Ayeka
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On another note, what happened to all the other princes and princesses? I always assumed the F.L.E.I.J.A bombing of Pendragon wiped them out, but of course, we have no confirmation on that. One could go under the excuse they are all still under Lelouch's geass, but that only requires them to submit to/acknowledge Lelouch, not Nunnally. You'd think if they lived, they be trying to get the throne from their inexperienced little sister
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Old 2013-09-22, 17:33   Link #115
kaiser11492
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Originally Posted by Empress Ayeka View Post
Since Marianne is referred to as an empress, it would seem like they are legal wives.

As for the number of kids, Nunnally mentions, when she is inaugurated as Viceroy, that she is 87th in line for the throne. Unless Charles has other relatives who are somehow higher in the succession than his own children, that would imply he has at least that many, and since Carine is supposed to be younger than Nunnally, he could have many more.

But even as I say that, I'm reminded Nunnally is supposed to be the 4th Princess, which would make her fourth daughter, so for her to be 87th, that means Charles has way more sons than daughters, and several of them are older than Nunnally. Considering the age difference between her and Lelouch, who is 11th Prince and 17th in line, is only 3 years, it means Charles must have really been, um, siring some heirs in those three years.....
It could be that the order of birth is not the sole determinant of one's placement on the line of succession. even if Nunnally was the 4th daughter born to Charles, she could still be demoted down the line of succession due to socio-political reasons. Nunnally could've been pushed down the line due to her disability and the loss of her mother. The other heirs who would be put ahead of her could be distant relatives of Charles whom he and the government favored more.

also, it's quite reasonable for Lelouch to be the 11th Prince because Clovis, the 3rd Prince, is 7 years older than Lelouch, meaning 8 princes could have been born within that time frame.
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Old 2013-10-05, 18:44   Link #116
Empress Ayeka
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Originally Posted by kaiser11492 View Post
It could be that the order of birth is not the sole determinant of one's placement on the line of succession. even if Nunnally was the 4th daughter born to Charles, she could still be demoted down the line of succession due to socio-political reasons. Nunnally could've been pushed down the line due to her disability and the loss of her mother. The other heirs who would be put ahead of her could be distant relatives of Charles whom he and the government favored more.

also, it's quite reasonable for Lelouch to be the 11th Prince because Clovis, the 3rd Prince, is 7 years older than Lelouch, meaning 8 princes could have been born within that time frame.
Hmmm, I never thought of that. Could be
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